Studying Film

projectmayhem · 29-01-2005 11:54pm #1

Does anyone here know what it entails? It's the time of year where everyone's applying for stuff. I'm going for a degree in comp sci as it is but if it's worth it, I'd be willing to put it off to check film out (coláiste dhulaigh seem to have a nice course), as I'm overly interested in the medium (in particular, direction).

Is it worth putting off so much time? Or, even better, is there a good night course, at a reasonable price?

Thanks...

BlitzKrieg · 30-01-2005 12:11am

varies from university to university.

Depends on what you want from your course?

practical or theory.

Alot of the Universities focus primarily on theory and they only do 1 or 2 modules on practical. Trinity has this. They also expect you to combine it with another course like drama or english. Be warned of trinity though, its only 2-3 years old so its not very well established.

If your more for pratical then the media courses and diplomas are better.

If your rich and is thinking of studying abroad anyway you can do night course with the the new york school of film (In london, new york, la or paris) i think

The course i'm on is at APU cambridge. Its very good. Not only can you combine it with almost anything under the sun. (I'm doing 20th century history and politics with film studies) but the course is very well divided between practical and theory, so not only do you get all the theory but you also get alot of pratical with digital and 16mm filmmaking, animation, script-writing, documentaries and you can do a 15 minute film instead of a dissetation.

i think the web address is www.apu.ac.uk

atgate · 30-01-2005 12:18am

IADT in Dun Laoghaire (the National Film School) has a 4 year BA in Film & Television Production. Good balance of theory and practice. 60% practical in year 1, 70% in year 2 and 80% in years 3 & 4. General subjects are taught in the first 2 years and specialties are selected for the final years (major & minor). It is a CAO application course so the clock would be ticking and entry is by leaving cert and portfolio. Competition is pretty hot as their are about 24 places and many many applicants. They get some pretty good guest lecturers - Jim Sheridan & Oliver Stone in the last couple of months.

Hope this helps.

humanji · 31-01-2005 12:27pm

I'm doing a part time film course myself and considering how much effert it takes to even make a short film, you won't be able to make a living straight away, and trying to break into the tv/film industry can be very difficult. You generally start off as a gopher, getting coffee and that, and earning feck all. And if you're lucky, you might make it up the chain of command.
My advice would be to do your comp sci degree and get a career going, and in your spare time read some books on film production, and if you can buy or rent a camera (though this can be expensive) and muck around, learn by doing and you'll get an eye for things.
When you finish your degree, I recommend doing a part time film course. This way, you'll be earning money from your day job that you can spend on the course and any projects you do, (making a film is VERY expensive!). And, if the whole film idea goes down the toilet, you'll have something to fall back on.

projectmayhem · 31-01-2005 7:13pm

jomanji wrote:

I'm doing a part time film course myself and considering how much effert it takes to even make a short film, you won't be able to make a living straight away, and trying to break into the tv/film industry can be very difficult. You generally start off as a gopher, getting coffee and that, and earning feck all. And if you're lucky, you might make it up the chain of command.
My advice would be to do your comp sci degree and get a career going, and in your spare time read some books on film production, and if you can buy or rent a camera (though this can be expensive) and muck around, learn by doing and you'll get an eye for things.
When you finish your degree, I recommend doing a part time film course. This way, you'll be earning money from your day job that you can spend on the course and any projects you do, (making a film is VERY expensive!). And, if the whole film idea goes down the toilet, you'll have something to fall back on.

possibly the best advice i've had thus far

merci beaucoup

combs · 31-01-2005 7:32pm

I can't speak for film courses because I never took one but I can only guess that the best film education you can get is watching films and reading. I can't possibly believe you could go to school to learn it. I couldn't bear to listen to a non-filmmaker lecture on films.

It has to be one of the toughest careers to get going though. This country simply hasn't the financing, confidence or the energy to produce films. Here it doesn't seem to be treated as a business; more like a madman's pursuit that has to be helped along with grants and subsidies. And look at the state of the films that do get made! Lord save us!

Elessar · 31-01-2005 9:26pm

Dhulaigh is a great course. We not only make films but we study them as well (a lot more making than studying tho believe me). Basically you are given projects to do, based on say an advertisement/remaking a scene from another film or make a 1 minute long film with certain goals. You get together with your group, discuss do the paperwork and then get out and make it. There is very little class based learning aside from the basic stuff, its very practical and it makes you get out there and do it, which is the best approach. You get to try your hand at directing, producing, camera and sound, but it's also a team approach. Like most other courses tho, places are limited to about 25 and I think last year there were around 300 applications.

If you're interested, head in and talk to the lecturers (all film makers themselves or been involved in the industry for years), and if you decide to apply make sure you do a good lengthy portfolio. I'd be happy to answer any other questions.

mycroft · 31-01-2005 10:37pm

I went to film school in ballyfermot.

Of the three years I was there (including people in the year beneath me and above) I know people who graduation from my course, who are doing, Locations (2 people) camera (1 girl who's upgraded from a trainee a big deal) to 6 of us working in post production (assistant editors, post production supervisors, and online editors) commericals and tv production.

In total about 12 of us (out of a potential 64) are currently making a living in our chosen industry, which is the kind of success rate any course would be envious of. It's a pratical course not designed to create directors but rather to create industry professionals capable of starting as department trainees.

Now I understand the course has been revamped and lost a number of lecturers.

The question is what do you want out of out a course.

Not to dish Dun Laoghaire but in it's ten years of existance (and it's a course that is supposed to be to create directors) has created three feature film directors one of whom is Kirsten Sheridan. And frankly I think that her parents had more to do with her success.

I'd recommend you grab a copy of the gureilla filmakers hand book and rebel without a crew.

You should experiment. Any half way descent PC allows editing, and a cam corder gives you the potential to experiment.

You're at a nexus point of creativity and technology about film making, my advise is get some mates write a script read the above manual.

Alternatively filmbase filmbase.ie runs a weekend course over a period of weekends to experiment in film making. Try that first?

BlitzKrieg · 01-02-2005 1:57am

if you are really that unsure but you still have interest to study film but not go into the industry then try some of the universities that do combined courses.

monkeyfudge · 01-02-2005 6:19pm

mycroft wrote:

Not to dish Dun Laoghaire but in it's ten years of existance (and it's a course that is supposed to be to create directors) has created three feature film directors one of whom is Kirsten Sheridan. And frankly I think that her parents had more to do with her success.

I was in Dun Laoghaire when she was there. And the film course was getting progressively worse at the time. I didn't do film myself, but did share some of their classes... such as Film History, which pretty much all about Leni Reifensthall each and every week for some reason...

It was a terrible college. Lecturers would never bother showing up and the film course seemed to be worst off, the 2nd year film students actually went on strike for some time actually.

I don't know how much it has improved since I graduated back in 1999. But the same people are still running the college, so I can't see how it could have changed too much. They have got a proper libary now, that doesn't just open while you are in classes, like it did when I was there.

I'm actually employed by Colaiste Dhulaigh. I don't know too much about thier film course, but they seem to be fairly well equipped.

Miguel_Sanchez · 01-02-2005 7:00pm

It really depends if film is something you know that you really want to do. It is hard to get into and chances are you will not make your fortune in Ireland doing it but then again if you're just choosing any career because of the moeny or how easy it is then something's wrong.

I would not agree with the person who said that you cannot learn about film in school. There is lots of stuff that you pick up that you could never pick up from watching films and reading. Actually going out and making films is invaluable and you will get to do this in college.

I did the three year diploma in GMIT in Film + Television and learned an awful lot. I wouldn't say it's a course without fault (there were lots) but it's decent. The lecturers when I was there all had varying experience in making films.

If you're dedicated and want to work in the field there's a lot you can get out of it.

Saying you should go and study something else and then you can just pick up filmmaking while working somewhere else is bull****. Getting into film learning the ropes takes time and you need to be able to dedicate huge amounts of time to it if you want to succeed in any aspect of it)

Ajos · 02-02-2005 12:01am

Jeff_Lebowski wrote:

Saying you should go and study something else and then you can just pick up filmmaking while working somewhere else is bull****. Getting into film learning the ropes takes time and you need to be able to dedicate huge amounts of time to it if you want to succeed in any aspect of it)

I second that. It's not a part time career.

And I'll defend IADT-DL a little. I left in 1997 (when it was still DLCAD) and I know it's changed a lot since then, but I enjoyed the hell out of it and learned a lot. As with any film (or any art) course you get out of it what you put in.

You don't come out actually qualified to do anything. You still have to start at the bottom and work your way up - but that's the same with all the courses (I'll exclude Screen Training Ireland courses, but they're usually for people already somewhat established). Anybody who says different is lying.

But it's a great way to figure out what you really like about filmmaking. You say you want to be a director - everybody does at first - but you might find you're better suited to editing or lighting or sound or producing or whatever. Those things are harder to find out outside of college - any college.

And I'm surprised at you, Mycroft, for saying that about Kirsten. You should know as well as anybody that the film industry is ultimately ruthlessly meritocratic. It's one thing to have the door opened, it's another to walk through.

mycroft · 02-02-2005 1:20am

Ajos wrote:

And I'm surprised at you, Mycroft, for saying that about Kirsten. You should know as well as anybody that the film industry is ultimately ruthlessly meritocratic. It's one thing to have the door opened, it's another to walk through.

No I agree, however for a course that is essentially sells itself as directors course its produced a handful of film directors one of whom is Kristen Sheridan, who was born into a film literate family, who was working on productions from a young age.

I had friends working on Disco pigs during post and there can be no disputing the hard work creativity and imagination she put into it.

My point is DCAD hold Sherdian up as a successful graduate of their course and a product of their school; I'd argue that she would have succeed without DCAD, and her background was more critical. I'm sorry if my remarks got taken up as flippant

idiotproof · 02-02-2005 1:45am

Thought I'd through in my two cents just for the sake of it really and kinda in response to some posts before.

I'm studying film in Dun Laoghaire and the production company I set up with some lads last January just had its first birthday party (noreturnsfilms.com)

There's two places I learn film, and you are always learning. I've learnt the practical no billshut side to actual filmmaking on set with the company and I've learnt to shoot pretty much anything from experimental shorts to pilot tv shows to 100th Birthdays (thats right 100th, she was SO old). Then I go to class and we shout about 1920's soviet cinema, not fun first thing monday morn but yeah, and we shoot a fair bit too. We had to make a film each and crew on 6 others in like two weeks before christmas then do up a production package over christmas, pitch the week we got back and we're shooting four 16mm films in a few weeks. Doing that sort of stuff MAKES you learn too because of the time pressure and the undercurrent of competitiveness in the class.

We had Kirsten Sheridan in to us today and she mentioned the strike in her class but those days seem long gone. Sure we have the odd free but your usually glad of it. The reason i went to Dun Laoghaire was to have access to kit I didn't have for three/four years, make as much as I could, learn what I could and to say I came from Dun Laoghaire because I see it as the best place to say your from in general, not neccessarily the best place to go cos I've never been anywhere else and I'm not gonna comment on a place I haven't been to but generally IADT has a reputation even on its application numbers.

My theory is there's no magic plan, even the "work your way up plan" isn't neccessarily going to get you anywhere, I try to do everything I can possibly do, i don't turn down any opportunity to crew something, i never turn down a paying gig no matter what slave rate it is cos I'm being paid to film and thats the dream.

Do everything you possibly can, do as much as you can at any one time so when one project dies you can move to another, eventually one will stick (hopefully) and you can make something of it.

I dunno

TCamen · 02-02-2005 2:02am

I'll add this in, because it's not been mentioned yet, and it *might* be something you're interested in.

Last summer I did the 4 Week 'Introduction to Film-Making Certificate' at the London Film Academy. Basically it was for people with little or no experience, and in groups we put together 2 short films. I produced one, and directed the other. My main interest lies in film/tv production so I was happy to get such hands-on roles in both shorts. The course was broken up into weeks dealing with concept development, pre-production, shooting & post-production/editing.

It wasn't terribly cheap (£800), but the experience was definitely worth it. We were kept extremely busy for those four weeks, and we got to be very hands on with all the equipment, from cameras to editing machines such as a Steenbeck. One of my favourite parts was the Directing workshop, where we had 2 actors come in and we were all given a vague story outline and had to direct them. It was so interesting to see how each person took the story and made their own concept out of it. At the end of the four weeks, we all made copies of the shorts on VHS to take with us as our showreels, as well as the certificate itself.

London Film Academy Certificate

Currently I'm studying @ University of Ulster, doing a 1 year Masters in Film & TV Management & Policies. It's pretty much a vocational course for people who want to work specifically in the production of features and television series i.e concept development, hiring crew, dealing with budgets, marketing, promotion and distribution. It's not really for practical stuff like directing though.

If you have any questions about either, PM me

Ajos · 02-02-2005 3:19am

mycroft wrote:

My point is DCAD hold Sherdian up as a successful graduate of their course and a product of their school; I'd argue that she would have succeed without DCAD, and her background was more critical. I'm sorry if my remarks got taken up as flippant

Fair enough! Again, to defend my alma mater, I don't think three feature film directors is that bad of a record. How many feature film directors in total have come out of ireland since the late eighties? And there are a bunch of former students directing TV and ads in Dublin and London.

But anyway, for me the value was in the stuff besides directing. We started with 19 wannabe auteurs and ended up with a varied bunch of specialities as people learned what it was really all about and figured out their niche.

Film as a career will always have a high attrition rate, and you'll learn more on a real job than you ever will in college, but time in the sandpit can only enrich you.

combs · 03-02-2005 12:11am

Ajos wrote:

And I'm surprised at you, Mycroft, for saying that about Kirsten. You should know as well as anybody that the film industry is blatantly nepotistic. It's one thing to have the door opened.

I second that!

Ajos · 03-02-2005 12:52am

Hey! You changed my quote! Is he allowed to do that?

Very rude...

mycroft · 03-02-2005 2:31pm

Ajos wrote:

But anyway, for me the value was in the stuff besides directing. We started with 19 wannabe auteurs and ended up with a varied bunch of specialities as people learned what it was really all about and figured out their niche.

Film as a career will always have a high attrition rate, and you'll learn more on a real job than you ever will in college, but time in the sandpit can only enrich you.

And to be fair I'll 2nd that. No one walks into film school thinking "I want to be a chief grip". Everyone goes in keen to direct, but then discover other interests that excite them. (that and if you're like me you hate being on set)

Flamingfud · 06-02-2005 10:15pm

I'd have to agree with whoever said that Film courses in themselves are generally bad ideas. ESPECIALLY if you plan on staying in Ireland after college. The industry here is simply too small to support the numbers that our courses (just like journalism) are spewing out. For example, I had a friend who completed the DIT Media Production degree who couldn't find a job as anything more than a runner for years afterward. If he'd spent those four years as a runner he would have learnt the same amount and progressed further, made more contacts. Frankly, I view Film as an art. And art can only be taught to a degree. Someone who has the love and talent required to be successful in the industry will be successful in the industry, no matter what degree they've pursued. When you're gambling with your future well-being, you've got to think hard about where you want to put your time.

Ajos · 06-02-2005 10:50pm

Film is a craft before it's an art, and that can be taught.

It's a tough industry to make a career in sometimes, but what isn't? Sure, a lot of people fail and give up, but a lot don't. Some people study film in college, then do well. Some don't study and try to just break in, then do well. Some study then fail, some can't break in at all. Personally, I went to Dun Laoghaire, had a great time, got a lot out of it, and went on to have a reasonable career (ups and downs, but I could always pay my rent). College is the right thing to do for some people and not for others.

What I'd dispute is the idea of "having something to fall back on". You only get one life, and you might as well spend it trying to do something you love. If you plan to fail you probably will. Go for it!

mycroft · 07-02-2005 1:55am

Flamingfud wrote:

I'd have to agree with whoever said that Film courses in themselves are generally bad ideas. ESPECIALLY if you plan on staying in Ireland after college. The industry here is simply too small to support the numbers that our courses (just like journalism) are spewing out. For example, I had a friend who completed the DIT Media Production degree who couldn't find a job as anything more than a runner for years afterward. If he'd spent those four years as a runner he would have learnt the same amount and progressed further, made more contacts. Frankly, I view Film as an art. And art can only be taught to a degree. Someone who has the love and talent required to be successful in the industry will be successful in the industry, no matter what degree they've pursued. When you're gambling with your future well-being, you've got to think hard about where you want to put your time.

It's not a art. It's a craft.

An artist restricts themselves to a studio or a writing studio or whatever. A film set or a cutting room is a collaberative organisation (you'll meet people in production who just try to figure out budget and logistics, the camera crew consist of people worrying about lighting and framing, while the sound recordist frets about over flying planes) The point is it's not an art everyone involved in the production is worried about the technical aspects and the finance, however a select clique of technicans (the DOP the art director, the editor, the costume designer, the director the writer) are primarly concerned with the creative process and the rest of the crew exist to ensure they don't have to worry about the technical ****e.

Most of the people who get fed up and quit easily don't understand the industry and except that they'll have some important film directing role three days out of college. And y'know the orson welles et all of this world are the exception not the rule, the rest of us need to slog and work and learn, and (take me more example I don't want to know about U bit t/c but have learnt) need to know the techincal skills to support the creative types so you can build yourself up to becoming a creative,

As for your staying in Ireland argument, I would tend to agree, most success irish industry professionals have spent some time working in the US/UK. It doesn't hurt.

I like to quote Robert Rodriguez A technical person cannot become creative but a creative person can become technical.

I went to film school and of the three years I was there a dozen out of the sixty or so students are working in the industry in Ireland the US and the Uk everything from camera, editing (including one HBO show) production, sound and art dept. So there are jobs out there. Just remember if you expect to become a director a few months/years after finishing you need to have a serious amount of self belief and commitment.

Studying Film

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