Train delays - update

twenty8 · 14-11-2007 11:25am #1

I am sick and tired of hearing Barry Kenny going on and on about punctuality with Irish Rail - and that no train is ever late!!!!!

I suggest that if we all put in each morning what train they were on and if it arrived on time / late / early etc and by how much. Also if there was anyone standing on the train.

At least then we can have a real look to see if trains are running on time or what.

twenty8 · 14-11-2007 11:27am

To start the ball rolling.

Wednesday 14th Nov
Limerick - Heuston
Expected arrival time 8:00
Actual arrival time 8:13am

LATE - 13m

All carriages were full with people standing down every aisle

fitzyshea · 14-11-2007 11:54am

Travel from Carlow on the 7.24 it rarely leaves on time usually goes at 7.30ish but of course this is not late as IE say a train must be over 10 mins to be called late.

loyatemu · 14-11-2007 2:35pm

yeah - Irish Rail's definition of late is not the same as that in the dictionary.

A dart from bray can arrive in town 10 minutes late and still be considered ontime. 10 minutes on a 40 minute journey is fairly substantial leeway.

MOH · 14-11-2007 2:48pm

I started last year keeping a record of what time my morning DART was supposed to arrive at its destination, and what time it actually did, to the nearest minute.
Just this month I've started keeping a record of the evening ones too.
(My commute is what should be a 25 minute DART ride)

Results for over 200 journeys:
- Total delay over 21 hours
- Average delay just under 6 minutes

- % of trains late (i.e. 1 minute or more late) is over 95%
- % of trains late by 5 minutes or more is over 54%

IE's punctuality figures are a joke.

enterprise · 14-11-2007 3:29pm

Actually only 3 mins late in the railway world, however still classed as late.

twenty8 wrote: »

To start the ball rolling.

Wednesday 14th Nov
Limerick - Heuston
Expected arrival time 8:00
Actual arrival time 8:13am

LATE - 13m

All carriages were full with people standing down every aisle

emmagean · 14-11-2007 5:47pm

the 17:07 train from Connolly to Balbriggan (first stop Donabate) is late every single day without fail

there is a Dart scheduled to leave Connolly for Howth at 17:04 and another at 17:10

the 17:07 is usually always at the platform in Connolly at 17:00 or 17:01, and as such you would think it could leave at its scheduled time of 17:07 if it wanted to

however every day, one northbound dart arrives at around 17:04 and leaves (usually late) and another arrives at 17:09, 17:10 or 17:11 and always gets priority ahead of the train.

As a result the Balbriggan bound train always leaves at least 2 minutes late (but usually 3 or 4) and then has to move at snails pace behind the Dart that has to stop at every station.

The last few days for example, the Dart and train leave the platform at exactly the same time, but the Dart gets preference, forcing the train to come to a complete stop just outside Connolly for 4 to 5 minutes while it waits for the Dart to clear a couple of stations ahead.

So the 17:07 leaves every day sometime after 17:10.
It is due to arrive at its first sop, Donabate, at 17:27 but gets there after 17:35.

Ok, 8 minutes late is not the end of the world and I'm used to it now but there doesnt appear to be any need to let a (late) Dart go ahead of our (late) train when it has no stops in common.

Rashers72 · 14-11-2007 9:53pm

Yeh, but this service then delays both the DARTs and the (supposed to be)fast Dundalk service behind it.
Anyhow, tonight:
Signal failure North of Connolly @ 17.30 14.11.07
Not sure of the details...certainly the 16.50 Bray to Drogheda was caught up in it. After 10 minutes sitting north of Connolly, rang Connolly information. Was asked 'Has the driver not advised you, there was a signal failure, but you'll be on your way soon'. I advised no information. He said he'd ring Control, and ask them to ask the driver to make an announcement. Needless to say, no announcement.
Seemed to be on 1/2 power to Donabate. Not sure what was going on.
Just usual frustrations around the driver not bothering to let passengers know what was happening
I sometimes wonder is there some sort of industrial relations issue with the drivers refusing to tell passengers what is happening. It is certainly very very frustrating.:(

marceldesailly · 14-11-2007 10:46pm

1643 pearse to balbriggan

arrived about 1800

only half hour late-still on time according to my irish rail watch

emmagean · 15-11-2007 9:10am

Rashers72 wrote: »

Yeh, but this service then delays both the DARTs and the (supposed to be)fast Dundalk service behind it.
(

the 17:07 from Connolly to Balbriggan doesnt delay the Darts because it ALWAYS waits for the Darts to leave first, which is why the 17:07 to Balbriggan never leaves until after 17:10 then waits on a go-slow behind the darts.

twenty8 · 15-11-2007 10:31am

I was in Heuston last week waiting for the 18:05 train. I was standing in a massive queue at 18:15 and the departures board said that the 18:05 had left. No wonder their figures look so good if they use that type of calculations!

ixoy · 16-11-2007 7:40pm

My "17:35" DART today wandered in at 17:50, ridicuously over-packed given it was the first rush hour DART by that point in 20 minutes.

Still better than my train up from Mullingar on Sunday - instead of arriving in at 20:20, we got in at 22:20. Joy.

Rashers72 · 16-11-2007 8:37pm

I think most services through Pearse st between 16.30 and 17.30 tonight suffered delays, due to delays to Rosslare-Mayooth service. Of course nothing on the IE website, despite me checking before I left work

Jonny Arson · 17-11-2007 2:19pm

i'd guess at least 50% of DARTs i get are at minimum 5 minutes late but i never encountered an early DART until Thursday night when my last DART home the 23:09 northbound from Sydney Parade departed 3 minutes early at 23:06 while i was walking into the station

that meant waiting to catch the last Malahide bound DART to Howth Junction and a nice freezing half hour walk home, thanks IE! :mad:

dfx- · 17-11-2007 10:19pm

Personally I think the funniest (:rolleyes:) late DART is the one that should be at Connolly at 0623 to Howth

Except it very rarely arrives at 0623...more like 0625-0630.

It's the first DART of the morning in either direction so what causes the delay is beyond me:eek:

Rashers72 · 19-11-2007 7:51pm

07.16 Dundalk to Bray was 10 minutes late. I assume the previous DART was delayed. No announcements by drivers or Control....
Also the 16.50 Bray-Drogheda 10 minutes late, in the middle of the peak evening services. Delayed everything behind it, leading to overcowding on the platforms.

cudman · 19-11-2007 10:09pm

The 7.28 from Sallins this morning was "only" 11 minutes late (thats actually better than most mornings):(

loyatemu · 20-11-2007 11:35am

last nights 1725 Connolly - Gorey, 25 minutes late.

MOH · 20-11-2007 12:40pm

ixoy wrote: »

My "17:35" DART today wandered in at 17:50, ridicuously over-packed given it was the first rush hour DART by that point in 20 minutes.

Still better than my train up from Mullingar on Sunday - instead of arriving in at 20:20, we got in at 22:20. Joy.

Two hours late, you're entitled to a refund

Last night, DART due in Killester at 18:15, 16 minutes late.
This morning, due in Blackrock, 09:28, 11 minutes late.

OTK · 20-11-2007 1:37pm

MOH wrote: »

I started last year keeping a record of what time my morning DART was supposed to arrive at its destination, and what time it actually did, to the nearest minute.
Just this month I've started keeping a record of the evening ones too.
(My commute is what should be a 25 minute DART ride)

Results for over 200 journeys:
- Total delay over 21 hours
- Average delay just under 6 minutes

- % of trains late (i.e. 1 minute or more late) is over 95%
- % of trains late by 5 minutes or more is over 54%

IE's punctuality figures are a joke.

I think 10 minutes is the international norm for measuring rail punctuality.
Can you determine % of trains late by more than 10 minutes?
This is IE's target. They report that 97.6% of DARTs were less than 10 minutes late in 2006 while their target was 92%. (The 2005 target was 90%)

SBB (a Swiss rail operator) has a target of 95% of trains running with less than 5 minutes delay. They meet this. So we clearly have a long way to go to reach the highest standard.
http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/infra-dienstleistungen/infra-kundeninfos/infra-kennzahlen_reiseverkehr.htm

ixoy · 20-11-2007 6:05pm

I imagine one of the issues is that the percentage of trains that are delayed are more likely to occur at rush hour (due to greater congestion on the line) and as a result affect far more people than the percentages would make seem. I still also struggle to wrap my head around how "ten minutes" is on time for a local rail network - we're not talking inter city here.

Rashers72 · 20-11-2007 11:07pm

Not sure of the exact details, due to complete silence from our driver, but all northbound and southbound DART's, Drogheda, and Maynooth services suffered delays of 10-15 minutes between 8.30am and 9am this morning. Complete silence on the platforms where I was, and on the trains. Nothing on earlier AA roadwatch announcements, so I rang them, who in turn rang Irish Rail. By 9am, they were including the signal failure in their radio announcements. :mad:

cor · 21-11-2007 12:02am

08:17 DART from Kilbarrack to Dun Laoghaire arrived yesterday morning minus two carriages (6 instead of 8). Luckily it was a DART with windows. DART arrived 13 minutes late in to Pearse.

ixoy · 21-11-2007 12:55am

Rashers72 wrote: »

Not sure of the exact details, due to complete silence from our driver, but all northbound and southbound DART's, Drogheda, and Maynooth services suffered delays of 10-15 minutes between 8.30am and 9am this morning.

I would've got into Connolly just after 08:30 and it was fine. I even had a seat today for a change! The Law of Irish Rail balance dictates though that for every fortunate person like me, pain must be dealt elsewhere.

MOH · 21-11-2007 11:53am

OTK wrote: »

I think 10 minutes is the international norm for measuring rail punctuality.
Can you determine % of trains late by more than 10 minutes?
This is IE's target. They report that 97.6% of DARTs were less than 10 minutes late in 2006 while their target was 92%. (The 2005 target was 90%)

Never heard of a 10 minute international standard before. Besides, the posters IE put up regularly claim that over 90% of their trans run 'on time' there is nothing ion their poster to indicate that they've redefined 'on time' as '10 minutes late'.

I've also heard that they were going to move to a 5-minute standard a while ago but backed down on this (hardly suprising given that the average delay I've experienced is just under six minutes)

SBB (a Swiss rail operator) has a target of 95% of trains running with less than 5 minutes delay. They meet this. So we clearly have a long way to go to reach the highest standard.
http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/infra-dienstleistungen/infra-kundeninfos/infra-kennzahlen_reiseverkehr.htm

NS in the Netherlands give a 50% refund if you're more than 30 minutes late, full refund more than an hour late. That's half the criteria that apply here. And no rubbish excuses either:

"- You get your money back irrespective of the cause of the delay, for example even in the case of an accident on a level crossing.
-We may in very unusual cases claim force majeure, for example in the event of a national power failure. "

But Swiss and Dutch services aren't really relevant, since they seem to operate to some level of accountability, unlike this lot.

prendy · 21-11-2007 3:42pm

the 17.44 from connolly to maynooth is late 4/5 evenings.
why dont they just change it to 17.50 and then it'll only be 2-5 mins late.
its a joke when you see their posters with 97% arrive on time.
only friday does it arive on time.
mornings generally on time tho!

JayoCluxton · 21-11-2007 3:45pm

When IE put up their brilliant punctuality times - you'll see it in carriages - they have something at the foot of it that 10 or 15 (can't remember which) minutes is basically allowed before trains are deemed late - hence their 90+ % record!

Was in Rome recently where the Metro for instance arrives every 2 minutes or so. Hence you don't see people charging up or down stairs - heaven!

MOH · 21-11-2007 5:13pm

JayoCluxton wrote: »

When IE put up their brilliant punctuality times - you'll see it in carriages - they have something at the foot of it that 10 or 15 (can't remember which) minutes is basically allowed before trains are deemed late - hence their 90+ % record!

I looked at one carefully last time they were up, and there was no mention of any allowance.

JayoCluxton · 21-11-2007 11:26pm

MOH wrote: »

I looked at one carefully last time they were up, and there was no mention of any allowance.

Well I have seen it on our trains. Next time I see it I'll take it down and send it to you.

MOH · 22-11-2007 4:07pm

JayoCluxton wrote: »

Well I have seen it on our trains. Next time I see it I'll take it down and send it to you.

Prob wouldn't fit through my letterbox and then I'd have to go to the sorting office to collect it, too much hassle. A photo would do.

Saw one in a station this morning, claimed 96% punctuality, no mention of any 10 minute allowance.

dmeehan · 22-11-2007 4:15pm

JayoCluxton wrote: »

Was in Rome recently where the Metro for instance arrives every 2 minutes or so. Hence you don't see people charging up or down stairs - heaven!

i remeber being at a massive underground station in hong kong, where the metro was running every 2 mins. unbelieveably most of the people were running for the train. i coulnt get over this

JayoCluxton · 22-11-2007 4:21pm

MOH wrote: »

Prob wouldn't fit through my letterbox and then I'd have to go to the sorting office to collect it, too much hassle. A photo would do.

Saw one in a station this morning, claimed 96% punctuality, no mention of any 10 minute allowance.

Ok MOH I believe ya. If definitely was on them. I'm sure I wasn't imagining it in the same way that IE imagine they have 96% punctuality!!

Rashers72 · 26-11-2007 8:51pm

The 16.50 Bray-Drogheda 15 minutes late, in the middle of the peak evening services. Delays to services ahead of it+behind it. No information on train, or on platforms. How hard can it be to make basic announcements?:mad:

cor · 28-11-2007 11:56pm

Monday - 17:17 DART Pearse to Malahide arrived late at Pearse. By the time it got to Connolly the 17:28 train to Maynooth had already left and a lot of people missed their connection. DART got to my station 10 minutes late.

Wednesday - Same DART was late arriving at Pearse again. Got to Connolly and the Maynooth train was already pulling away from Platform 7. A guy on my carriage ran off the DART, and gave the Maynooth train driver a whistle and was waiving his arms. The Maynooth train stopped, I'm sure some of the train had already pulled away from the platform, and the people got their train. DART got to my station 9 minutes late.

Rashers72 · 29-11-2007 9:40pm

cor wrote: »

Monday - 17:17 DART Pearse to Malahide arrived late at Pearse. By the time it got to Connolly the 17:28 train to Maynooth had already left and a lot of people missed their connection. DART got to my station 10 minutes late.

Wednesday - Same DART was late arriving at Pearse again. Got to Connolly and the Maynooth train was already pulling away from Platform 7. A guy on my carriage ran off the DART, and gave the Maynooth train driver a whistle and was waiving his arms. The Maynooth train stopped, I'm sure some of the train had already pulled away from the platform, and the people got their train. DART got to my station 9 minutes late.

That same DART was late again this evening. It is only 4 carriages long, with 8 carriages worth of people trying to get on it. Hence the delays built up en-route. Interestingly, the delayed Howth bound DART behind it was 1/2 empty (8 carriages, with empty seats). They clearly have the wrong trains on the wrong services. Only the passengers suffer :mad:
PS - of course my Drogheda service was stuck for 10 minutes behind the delayed Malahide service.

jlang · 29-11-2007 10:51pm

cor wrote: »

Wednesday - Same DART was late arriving at Pearse again. Got to Connolly and the Maynooth train was already pulling away from Platform 7. A guy on my carriage ran off the DART, and gave the Maynooth train driver a whistle and was waiving his arms. The Maynooth train stopped, I'm sure some of the train had already pulled away from the platform, and the people got their train. DART got to my station 9 minutes late.

I was on those services too and pleasantly surprised to see the Maynooth train stop after travelling about a carriage length. There were enough other people crossing the platform and squeezing in to the back carriages that I had time to get near enough to the front where there was more space. Oh, and I'm quite sure the driver hadn't passed the end of the platform.

MOH · 30-11-2007 1:04pm

I was on the same DART, 14, minutes late at Killester.

Total time I've lost due to DART delays this month: 4 hours.

Rashers72 · 30-11-2007 9:12pm

The 17.28 Pearse to Drogheda arrived on time this evening

Hang though...it is only 6 carriages... run up the platform, although not as overcrowded considering it's 2 carriages short.
We depart Connolly on time.....looking good.:)
However, that is where we stop for 10 minutes, in complete silence.
I rang Connolly information desk...oh, did I not know, there was a earlier fault impacting the 16.50 Connolly-Belfast service at Howth Junction.
Hence all northbound DARTs and Drogheda services delayed.
As always, no information, and late getting in.
When I got off the train, the local station was announcing 15 minute delays to Drogheda-city centre services.

Rashers72 · 05-12-2007 10:01pm

Rashers72 wrote: »

The 17.28 Pearse to Drogheda arrived on time this evening
Hang though...it is only 6 carriages... run up the platform, although not as overcrowded considering it's 2 carriages short.
We depart Connolly on time.....looking good.:)
However, that is where we stop for 10 minutes, in complete silence.
I rang Connolly information desk...oh, did I not know, there was a earlier fault impacting the 16.50 Connolly-Belfast service at Howth Junction.
Hence all northbound DARTs and Drogheda services delayed.
As always, no information, and late getting in.
When I got off the train, the local station was announcing 15 minute delays to Drogheda-city centre services.

Late again this evening, but a new event tonight. Driver advised as we pulled into Donabate, the late running Malahide service had delayed all services. And apologised. Think this also impacted southbound Drogheda+Belfast trains...

Rashers72 · 06-12-2007 10:24pm

The new event continued.... same service 30 minutes late this evening, but driver made announcements. Incident on that Malahide service which is delaying nearly all evening services on a nightly basis....
No announcements while we waited outside Connolly this morning at 8.30am for 10 minutes admiring the overgrowth beside the train wash :mad:

JayoCluxton · 07-12-2007 7:39pm

Rashers72 wrote: »

The new event continued.... same service 30 minutes late this evening, (6/12) but driver made announcements.

I was on the 5.13 to Dundalk (6/12) when an elderly man collapsed beside me. He was in some distress and hopefully he is now recovering. We contacted driver through intercom and he stopped at next opportunity - Portmarnock. We were delayed for about 40 mins waiting for ambulance. This obviously had a serious knock-on for all services.

There is not a lot can be done about this incident. The driver was excellent and thanked those passengers for helping and also all for their patience.

Passengers in the vicinity were excellent - it actually brought out the good side in everyone.

Communication is a huge problem on trains. If there is a genuine problem commuters don't mind - just tell us.

patrickc · 14-12-2007 1:55am

yesterday the 07.24 from carlow to dublin delayed by 11 mins, today the same train delayed by 21 mins and the 16.25 dublin to waterford left at 5 and got delayed again at sallins and naas by abother 10 mins. some doors wouldnt close and then engine trouble on the 16.25

Riveta · 14-12-2007 2:50am

ya i was the 16.25 waterford train. got dealyed by half an hour in heuston. then we like stopped outside naas? something about a bridge?!

ixoy · 14-12-2007 10:20am

Well knock me down with a steam engine - I got a full refund for my delayed journey four weeks back (the Sligo train incident). They even sent a fairly detailed letter on what happened with my train.

JayoCluxton · 27-03-2008 4:06pm

MOH - going back to a few posts on this thread in November (sad I know) we had a disagreement on whether or not 10 mins was the norm allowance before a train was considered late. I was sure I read it on their posters but it wasn't there then. Well in the immortal words of Kenneth Wolstenholme - It is now!

Just noticed a poster on this yesterday (on Drogheda train) and it says at the bottom that 10 mins is allowed.

MOH · 28-03-2008 11:48am

Yep, saw that a couple of weeks ago on the Sligo line.

That's great news, next time I'm ten minutes late to work I can just claim that I'm on time in accordance with international standards :rolleyes:

Train delays - update

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