Murder vs. man slaughter vs. assault causing harm

Volthar wrote: »

Hi All,

further to the recent scumbag attacks in Dublin area ("road rage" and a man killed after being hit in a head with a hurley, Coolock killing, screwdriver killings and others) I am wondering how Garda or whoever is in charge qualifies an attack when setting charges. I mean if someone kicks someone's head several times then leaves a person unconsious in a puddle of blood, hits someone in a head with a hurley, baseball bat, stabbs someone in a head with a screwdrived etc. it is clear it was done with killing in mind and if the victim eventually dies (like your man hit with a hurley or the Polish guy attacked in Coolock) then it is MURDER not a manslaughter or some poxy "attack causing harm".

Is it just lack of education and scumbags think in their zombie like, drunk minds it is allrite to do it as the victim will sure rejuvenate somehow... as they always do in computer games... even stabbed in a heart, head, kicked in the head and left unconsious at 5 AM on Sat?

I am thinking of printing a large number of "educational" leaflets pointing what action may/will cause victim's death but at the same time I do not want to give them scumbags new ideas.

May they all rot in hell!

the highlighted part is a partial truth - the " scumbags" in this case have little or no regard for the consequences of their actions...they dont care because they have all been through the system and in their eyes its nothing to fear....most of the time when such acts are committed its adrenalin which pushes them over the line.

These "people" use drink and drugs as an excuse and in part the courts accepts it - even though the statement is always mentioned in court that drink is not an excuse - it will be taken into consideration blah blah blah.

in the case of Pawel Kalite's killers (screwdriver to the head) - they claimed it was the crowd shouting at them which encouraged them to keep going - my understanding is that one of the lads went off and got a screwdriver and returned...in this case - making a conscious decision to get a weapon.

with the recent killings - its more than likely that each will be charged - I find it strange that with the road rage incident that they haven't picked up the guy - they interviewed him and released him without charge prior to the other guys death, I'm guessing if he doesn't plead guilty he might look for temporary insanity - so its possible the DPP/Gardai may not get a proper conviction for murder and might deal with manslaughter.

as for the Coolock killing - the guy was not long out of prison (not a lot of people know this) but he was jailed in 2008 for 3yrs with 12months suspended, if he had served the full 3yrs we would not have had this issue - longer jail sentences is the answer and limit the court of criminal appeal.

the gardai charged the man with assault causing harm - which basically means they can ask a judge to remand him in custody due to possible more serious charges - in this case its possible they will look for a murder charge...only time will tell.

my personal opinion is that we need to adopt a similar rule to the three(3) strikes rule ..... if you are a repeat offender its obvious that you do not have any respect for the laws of this country and also its people..... habitual criminals or people with more than 10 criminal convictions should receive a mandatory minimum 15yrs....for each subsequent offence - and no consecutive sentencing !!!

(and no exceptional circumstances which allows a judge to give less of a sentence - unlike the section 15a law - mandatory minimum of 10yrs for possession of drugs valued over €13,500 - its rare that the person gets anywhere close to 10yrs due to solicitors, barristers and the client saying the "right things" to a judge to appeal for leniency)

if we had proper sentences - little or no remission - then maybe our streets might be a bit safer....we also need prisons which are an actual punishment instead of a holiday camp....prisons should have a strict NO DRUGS policy - if you are addicted you automatically go into drug treatment as part of your sentence. (at the moment they claim to have a no drugs policy but they already know how the drugs are getting in and don't stop it so they wont have rioting prisoners) - the prison officers look out for their own safety and thats it.

Murder requires the intention to kill, or cause serious injury to, some person. This is regardless of whether the person is actually killed or not.

Manslaughter is lacking that intention. You have voluntary manslaughter (things like provocation and excessive self-defence) and involuntary manslaughter (assault manslaughter, criminal/dangerous act manslaughter, criminal negligence manslaughter, etc.).

Assault causing harm is quite simply: A person who assaults another causing him or her harm shall be guilty of an offence.