Pregnant and fired

rawn · 03-01-2014 10:35pm #1

I hope this is the right forum for this.

My friend was working in a hospital. She was technically on a temp contract as they're not allowed to hire new people permanently, but was working there about 6 months. Anyways, she had a review a few weeks ago and was told that the supervisor (the really fussy-to-the-point-of-bulling type) wasn't too happy with her work, but that they were gonna give her time to improve and would review her again in June. She is 3 months pregnant, and told them last week. They then called her in the next day and told her that they had reviewed her work again and that they weren't pleased with her progress and they let her go. Any thoughts? I don't think she has much rights here as she was temporary, but I find it suspect that they brought the review forward by 6 months to fire her after discovering she was pregnant. Any advice at all about how (or if) she should go further with this?

ABajaninCork · 03-01-2014 11:07pm

I don't think she has any comeback. Your friend was on a temp contract which (I assume) can be terminated on either side with little or no notice.

I'd suggest she checks over her contact carefully, and if in doubt contact NERA.

Pro Hoc Vice · 03-01-2014 11:48pm

rawn wrote: »

I hope this is the right forum for this.

My friend was working in a hospital. She was technically on a temp contract as they're not allowed to hire new people permanently, but was working there about 6 months. Anyways, she had a review a few weeks ago and was told that the supervisor (the really fussy-to-the-point-of-bulling type) wasn't too happy with her work, but that they were gonna give her time to improve and would review her again in June. She is 3 months pregnant, and told them last week. They then called her in the next day and told her that they had reviewed her work again and that they weren't pleased with her progress and they let her go. Any thoughts? I don't think she has much rights here as she was temporary, but I find it suspect that they brought the review forward by 6 months to fire her after discovering she was pregnant. Any advice at all about how (or if) she should go further with this?

Please seek legal advice. There may be a valid claim for unfair dismissal, but only a good employment solicitor who can take full instructions can advise you.

Unfair Dismissals

"All dismissals connected with pregnancy are deemed to be unfair dismissals and this includes employees made redundant during maternity leave and who are not offered suitable alternative employment."

From http://employmentrightsireland.com/maternity-leave-in-irish-employment-law-what-you-need-to-know/

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-fired-while-pregnant-wins-claim-516675.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2008/0523/world/woman-fired-because-she-was-pregnant-awarded-14k-63376.html

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/pregnant-woman-fired-by-limerick-casino-and-told-to-put-her-feet-up-at-home-1-4205580

3DataModem · 04-01-2014 12:29am

If they have fired her because she was pregnant, they have broken the law.

Seek legal advice.

rawn · 04-01-2014 12:57am

Thanks infosys I'll pass on those links to her. The thing is we don't know that they fired her cos she's pregnant. She had already been told she would be up for review. But the review wasn't supposed to be til June, and they fired her the day after she said she was pregnant. So I can imagine their excuse will be that it was because of the review and probably deny saying it that it was gonna be in June. I dunno if she has a witness or anything in writing, I'll have to ask. Sorry I don't have more details than this. Citizens advice said cos she was temporary that she has no case.

AndonHandon · 04-01-2014 1:48am

It will be extremely difficult for her employer to show that they didn't dismiss her because of the pregnancy.

Make sure she documents any correspondence with the former employer.

Filibuster · 05-01-2014 2:26am

From a previous Irish case:

In the Irish case of McGloin V The Legal Aid Board(4) the Claimant became ill with a pregnancy related illness and had to be hospitalised from the 9th February, 2006 to the 14th March, 2006.

The Claimant had worked for the Respondent on a series of fixed term contracts as a clerical officer. The Claimant’s husband notified her manager of the pregnancy on the 23rd March, 2006.

On the 31st March, 2006 the Claimant received a letter from the Respondent dated 27th March, 2006 that her contract would not be renewed. The reason stated in the letter was that an officer, who was on career break at the time, would be returning to resume her duties.

The Equality Officer was satisfied that the Claimant had raised a prima facie case that non-renewal of her fixed term contract of employment was directly related to her pregnancy and that the employer failed to rebut the presumption.

The Respondent was unable to adduce evidence in the form of minutes or similar documentation to support its contention that the decision not to renew the fixed term contract was made on the 13th March before the Respondent was apprised of the Claimant’s pregnancy and therefore unrelated to it. In this case the Equality Officer was persuaded that the non-renewal of the fixed term contract was related to the Claimant’s pregnancy by reason of the Respondent’s letter of the 27th March which specifically raised the sick leave and was issued 4 days following the communication by the Claimant’s husband of her pregnancy. The Equality Tribunal relied on the Melgar case(5) and the Claimant was awarded €15,000.00.

http://www.hayes-solicitors.ie/news/ThePregnantEmployee.htm

It's seems highly suspect your friend was sacked just a day informing them of the pregnancy. Do they have written evidence of your friends unsatisfactory performance etc. Does your friend have evidence that her performance would be reviewed again in June.

BTW I'm not a solicitor or in the law trade.

3DataModem · 05-01-2014 11:37pm

AndonHandon wrote: »

It will be extremely difficult for her employer to show that they didn't dismiss her because of the pregnancy.

Make sure she documents any correspondence with the former employer.

Exactly. And the onus is on them to prove it, not her.

Peanut2011 · 06-01-2014 12:26am

Sorry to burst your bubble but this is typical case of overreaction. She was pulled in prior to them knowing that she was pregnant and advised they were not happy with their work. What they did than is they extended the "probation" to another 6 months.

Within that 6 months they are perfectly entitled to let her go without any explanation.

It is sh*** that she lost the job while facing the pregnancy but such is work on temporary contracts.

rawn · 06-01-2014 12:45am

Peanut2011 wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble but this is typical case of overreaction. She was pulled in prior to them knowing that she was pregnant and advised they were not happy with their work. What they did than is they extended the "probation" to another 6 months.

Within that 6 months they are perfectly entitled to let her go without any explanation.

It is sh*** that she lost the job while facing the pregnancy but such is work on temporary contracts.

It was the exact day after she told them though. Only 2 weeks after the initial extension of probation that they said would be 6 months. She insists nothing happened in those 2 weeks, no incidents or anyone saying she was still messing up...

efb · 06-01-2014 12:47am

There are far greater protections for pregnant workers, talk to a solicitor

Peanut2011 · 06-01-2014 1:59am

rawn wrote: »

It was the exact day after she told them though. Only 2 weeks after the initial extension of probation that they said would be 6 months. She insists nothing happened in those 2 weeks, no incidents or anyone saying she was still messing up...

They can simply say they did not need her services any longer.... If she can prove they hired someone else to that exact same position she might have a case otherwise I'm afraid it's lost cause...

In any case I am not a solicitor so maybe she needs to speak to one but I am telling you from what I know and have seen over the years.

Pro Hoc Vice · 06-01-2014 2:20am

Peanut2011 wrote: »

They can simply say they did not need her services any longer.... If she can prove they hired someone else to that exact same position she might have a case otherwise I'm afraid it's lost cause...

In any case I am not a solicitor so maybe she needs to speak to one but I am telling you from what I know and have seen over the years.

You may very well know and have seen many breaches of employment law, but it does not take away from the fact that your legally wrong. I can not say the OP's friend will win her case as I don't have all the facts but I would bet she has a very good chance on what little I have heard, but you are right legal advice should be sought.

BTW did you read any of the links I posted.

3DataModem · 06-01-2014 7:35am

Peanut2011 wrote: »

They can simply say they did not need her services any longer.... If she can prove they hired someone else to that exact same position she might have a case otherwise I'm afraid it's lost cause...

In any case I am not a solicitor so maybe she needs to speak to one but I am telling you from what I know and have seen over the years.

Wrong.

No they can't "say they don't need her services" if they've already told her it's a performance issue. They'll need to have documented exactly why her performance isn't up I scratch, what opportunities she got to remedy it, and how this was communicated.

stock> · 06-01-2014 7:49am

Based on the information supplied this woman need to get professional help / advice. Having studied HR there is a case to be answered here. Speak to a HR professional or solicitor and cease discussing the case on an open public forum.

drunkmonkey · 06-01-2014 11:29am

3DataModem wrote: »

Wrong.

No they can't "say they don't need her services" if they've already told her it's a performance issue. They'll need to have documented exactly why her performance isn't up I scratch, what opportunities she got to remedy it, and how this was communicated.

That's best practice but not a requirement of law in this case. You don't need to do all that to protect yourself as an employer. She can just be dismissed, she had no case.

smcgiff · 06-01-2014 11:36am

Even people on permanent contracts can be let go without much comeback in the first year.

efb · 06-01-2014 12:01pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's best practice but not a requirement of law in this case. You don't need to do all that to protect yourself as an employer. She can just be dismissed, she had no case.

Being pregnant means she has every case

Pro Hoc Vice · 06-01-2014 1:27pm

smcgiff wrote: »

Even people on permanent contracts can be let go without much comeback in the first year.

Yes but if the dismissal is pregnancy related or one of the equality grounds you can take a dismissals case before a year has passed.There may also be contractual difficulties if its a fixed term contract, but that would be a contract issue.

hullaballoo · 06-01-2014 1:28pm

stock> wrote: »

Based on the information supplied this woman need to get professional help / advice. Having studied HR there is a case to be answered here. Speak to a HR professional or solicitor and cease discussing the case on an open public forum.

OP, there is no such thing as a HR professional and even if there was such a thing, it would be entirely inappropriate to consult one in relation to a legal matter. You/your friend need(s) to consult a solicitor.

rawn · 06-01-2014 4:24pm

Thanks for the advice everyone. I will speak to my friend about it, she just wanted to be sure she had a possibility of a case before she pays to see solicitor. I will report back I can

brian_t · 06-01-2014 4:37pm

rawn wrote: »

I will speak to my friend about it, she just wanted to be sure she had a possibility of a case before she pays to see solicitor. I will report back I can

You don't pay to see a solicitor. You would only start to pay (or maybe not) if they take your case.

rawn · 06-01-2014 5:23pm

brian_t wrote: »

You don't pay to see a solicitor. You would only start to pay (or maybe not) if they take your case.

Oh I actually didn't know that, that's a relief! Thanks

Ooo30 · 26-01-2014 10:34pm

Hi Thanks for taking the time to read need but any advice is greatly apprenticed

so the background is
I have been working in my job no for 1 and half years i was taken on as a trainee dental nurse. the company is a small private company.
There is myself another full time nurse and a manager one full time dentist the owner and a part time dentist
i did this for 2 months 2 days a week with a part time dentist who i loved working with and have a great working relationship with them.
the 2 months into my boss took me off nursing and gave me accounts and pa work for him to do and they took on a work experience girl to work with the part time dentist.

i spent the most of my time doing the accounts/ i as doing up invoices for 8 other clinics belonging to the boss and sending all this information to the accountant for him to put his stamp on it..
i was not paid for doing this work just as a trainee dental nurse
i was also doing the boss's pa work flights accom setting up meetings presentations etc.

i have a very good work ethic. work hard full time Monday to Friday and any extra days needed to cover promotions etc that we ran.

the manager left to go traveling and the work load got increased for myself and the other girl.
they hired another 2 people who didnt last as they didnt like the working with the boss- he is very difficult and not only belittles you as a person but also never know how he will react to anything. He has no concept of how long things take or how much time is needed to preform a job to standard.
This caused a lot stress with the work place.

all was going ok till last year a few personal issues happened.
I moved house moved closer o work and all this was ok until my dad passed away a couple of days later... i was upset and stressed over this and worried about my mum.
i went to back to work a week later as i felt i needed to keep busy.
the first week was tough but still got my work done.

over the next week i was asked to be full time nurse with the boss and the accounts would be the accountants job from now on
so now i was back nursing and still is pa.

i was only ever paid a low wage for being a dental nurse not a pa or accountant.

i made a few small mistakes over the last few weeks and so did the other girl but as she is brown nosing this girl cant do a thing wrong.
so im on my own as there is only the 3 of us. ( part ime dentist on maternity leave)

i got some really good news after a horrible few months after day that i was pregnant and i told my boss at 10 weeks.

he was shocked and didnt say much.

now the tension is unreal within work and i got a verbal warning the other day for not having enough stock in the room although the stock had arrived he didnt pay attention to any of that part just made it out that i was not concentrating anymore and didnt care about the job anymore etc he brought my dad into it and Friday just gone had a chat about it... where is told me i was not concentrating and follows this by using the line " and now your pregnant" " i dont want to be the d**khead to fire a pregnant girl"

i am so stressed about this and cant stop worrying that i ill have no job in a few weeks if he decided to give me a written warning

i am stressed to the hilt about this as i cant afford to be without job
im moving home for a couple of months to safe money and its not not good for baby with me being so worked up and worried about each day in work

If he was concenred about my performance surely he could have fired or warned me before but he knows im pregnant now it feels like its all happening after ive said this.

i have 5 months before my maternity leave

any advice?

Thanks a million

stock> · 26-01-2014 10:42pm

Hmmm........sounds like constructive dismissal is in the offing...............

sopretty · 26-01-2014 10:50pm

Happened to me working for a pretty high profile individual. No way in hell I would have taken her on during my pregnancy. Seeing who she is willing to take on now, I am quite content that I took the correct decision for myself at the time.

stock> · 26-01-2014 10:59pm

hullaballoo wrote: »

OP, there is no such thing as a HR professional and even if there was such a thing, it would be entirely inappropriate to consult one in relation to a legal matter. You/your friend need(s) to consult a solicitor.

So what is a Hr manager...... of some one with a masters from here may also have an opinion on this as well..........

http://www.ul.ie/graduateschool/course/human-resource-management-msc

blueythebear · 27-01-2014 12:14am

stock> wrote: »

So what is a Hr manager...... of some one with a masters from here may also have an opinion on this as well..........

http://www.ul.ie/graduateschool/course/human-resource-management-msc

I personally believe that solicitor is the only professional to be consulted where an employee has a grievance against an employer and wishes to take some form of action through the various employment law mechanisms.

No offence to any HR professionals but I am not aware of whether there is a regulatory body for Human Resources in Ireland. Nor is there a requirement for a HR Manager to have professional indemnity insurance?

A HR Manager would not necessarily have the required advocacy and negotiation experience/skills as the norm and these would be skills that Solicitors would utilise on a daily basis.

Plus with the (very complex) interaction with EU legislation becoming more and more prevalent in Employment law, I believe that it is vital that a disgruntled employee seek advice from a legal proessional.

runawaybishop · 27-01-2014 4:15pm

Ooo30 wrote: »

any advice?

Thanks a million

Document everything.

sopretty · 28-01-2014 7:01pm

An HR manager's loyalty is always to the company. They are employed to ensure a company complies with legislation. They do not care about you as an employee.

Fred Swanson · 28-01-2014 7:20pm

This post has been deleted.

Pregnant and fired

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