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Legality of libdvdcss/2 in Ireland & Europe

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  • 26-08-2015 11:19am
    #1
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭


    Does anyone have any factual information regarding the

    1. distribution
    2. possession
    3. use

    of libdvdcss/libdvdcss2 in Ireland?

    What laws might apply?
    Has anyone ever been charged with something related?

    I am trying to gather current information about the situation in Ireland and more generally in Europe.

    Any help you might be able to provide would be gratefully received.

    Thanks.


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    #2
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Everything I have read so far indicates that it is illegal for anyone to use something to bypass or break the encryption.

    It seems it is not illegal to posses the means to do so.

    The end result appears to be that it is illegal for me to watch a movie DVD, I have just purchased, on my PC running Linux and using libdvdcss2.

    It seems to me there is no practical method of applying this ....


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    #3
    ASX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭ASX


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Everything I have read so far indicates that it is illegal for anyone to use something to bypass or break the encryption.
    hmm ... I read about that a little different: it is illegal "circumvent a copy protection", and by that using libdvdcss2 to watch a properly acquired DVD doesn't classify as "circumventing a copy protection", it would be only a technical means to access your media, like in any DVD drive.


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    #4
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    ASX wrote: »
    hmm ... I read about that a little different: it is illegal "circumvent a copy protection", and by that using libdvdcss2 to watch a properly acquired DVD doesn't classify as "circumventing a copy protection", it would be only a technical means to access your media, like in any DVD drive.

    I believe you are considered to be circumventing the copy protection if you use an unapproved/unlicensed method of doing so.

    What else is 'circumventing' if not using an unapproved method of breaking the copy protection?

    I don't 'know' which is why I started this thread in the hope that some solid declaration might be referenced.

    So far I have found nothing on line, except opinion of various persons.

    Thanks for the post.


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    #5
    ASX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭ASX


    trying to go "factual" ...

    The libdvdcss2 case, as I see it should fall under the EU copyright directive.

    I was unable to find any "fact" strictly related to libdvdcss/2, but I have found a case related to "circumventing copy protection", i.e. Nintendo vs. PO Box s.r.l and 9Net s.r.l. before Court of Milan (Italy).

    The case, in my opinion, can have some similarity with legal/illegal use of libdvdcss/2

    At some point the Italian Court asked "preliminary ruling" to the European Court of Justice:
    a link and a couple of related article.

    (*) sent links by email, I'm still a new user here, not allowed to post links.

    The outcome from ECJ is that "circumventing copy protection" measures could be lawful, and leave the final decision to the Italian Court, mainly depending from a contextual copyright infringement or not.

    ~~~

    Debian has had "legal advice" that redistributing libdvdcss2 (and ZFS) is lawful, and the advisor was "Software Freedom Law Center" which is directed from Eben Moglen, I was unable to find further info about that.


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    #6
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Like a lot of things in law, my guess, is that it depends on intent. From my recollection of the IPR laws there are exceptions provided to allow a reasonable usage that might include making backups or clipping a small segment of the whole product. So unless expressly forbidden by the T&C a tool that facilitates this should not be illegal in itself - my 2c


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    #7
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    ASX wrote: »
    trying to go "factual" ...

    The libdvdcss2 case, as I see it should fall under the EU copyright directive.

    I was unable to find any "fact" strictly related to libdvdcss/2, but I have found a case related to "circumventing copy protection", i.e. Nintendo vs. PO Box s.r.l and 9Net s.r.l. before Court of Milan (Italy).

    The case, in my opinion, can have some similarity with legal/illegal use of libdvdcss/2

    At some point the Italian Court asked "preliminary ruling" to the European Court of Justice:
    a link and a couple of related article.

    (*) sent links by email, I'm still a new user here, not allowed to post links.

    The outcome from ECJ is that "circumventing copy protection" measures could be lawful, and leave the final decision to the Italian Court, mainly depending from a contextual copyright infringement or not.

    ~~~

    Debian has had "legal advice" that redistributing libdvdcss2 (and ZFS) is lawful, and the advisor was "Software Freedom Law Center" which is directed from Eben Moglen, I was unable to find further info about that.

    Thanks for the links you were unable to post ...

    http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=146686&pageIndex=0&doclang=en&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=571751

    http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c3dba49b-f79f-47d1-b3ee-7905500e6edd

    This is indeed interesting:-
    This ruling is interesting in acknowledging that circumvention devices may be used for legitimate, non-infringing purposes and, to the extent that they are, may be lawful.

    http://www.mondaq.com/x/293996/Copyright/ECJ+Attempts+but+Largely+Fails+to+Clarify+Scope+of+Protection+for+Technical+Protection+Measures+for+Gaming+Consoles
    The Italian court may, in its assessment, take into account, inter alia, the relative costs, the effectiveness and the technical and practical aspects of different types of technological measures. The national court should also examine whether PC Box's equipment is, in practice, frequently used in disregard of copyright (for illegal copies of videogames) or if it is used for purposes which do not infringe copyright. For example, PC Box's equipment may be used as independent software which does not constitute an illegal copy of videogames, but which is intended to enable MP3 files, movies and videos to be read on consoles.

    Depending on the Italian courts now for a final decision on that particular case. They might find against PC Box Srl on the basis that it is mostly used for illegal activities.

    That too could happen in the case of libdbdcss if it ever went to court .... but a complete absence of an alternative on Linux would hold great weight in its favour.

    I view libdvdcss as I would any tool.
    It should not be the tool that is illegal but the use it is put to should be the test.

    A hammer is used to drive nails quite legally when building etc, but could also be used as a weapon.

    Anyway, our wishes or estimates of what should be the case is meaningless in this ..... I really want to get to the bottom of what IS.

    It seems there might be no prior decisions in the EU ..... else I would have expected the Italian court to reference it and make a decision.


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