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Songwriting process

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  • 21-11-2011 6:35pm
    #1
    Johnatorium
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭


    Just wondering what other people/bands thoughts are on the songwriting process.

    Do you start out with a riff, and start jammin it out until it evolves into something, or do you bring a full song to the band and try to explain it to them all?!

    At the moment, i'm recording all instruments myself so that we can just learn the tracks and start running through them.....but its a pain in the arse!!


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    #2
    Malice
    Registered Users Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Malice


    Like a lot of things, both depending on the song. I'll often lash together a few riffs and try to get the basic structure of a song down before presenting it to the rest of the band. Other times all I'll have is a riff with no idea what else to do with it. In that situation I'll present it to the rest of the band, we'll jam it for a bit and then end up with something totally different to what I'd started with.

    I play bass and guitar so I usually know exactly what I want those instruments to achieve. Anything I write related to drums is usually just rudimentary.

    A key aspect is trust in your fellow band members though. You've got to leave your ego at the door. I know that whatever I come up with drumwise, an actual drummer will be able to improve on it. There's no point in my getting possessive. At the same time, if your band has a democratic approach to writing then you should never over-criticise someone's ideas. Rather than saying "That's crap", say something like "That doesn't quite fit. How about a G rather than an F#?".


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    #3
    benestoria2
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭benestoria2


    Thats the beauty of the song writing process its not set in stone..I sing and play some guitar in two bands the first band when it comes to songs i tend to write on acoustic play a few chords hum a melody and write some lyrics,i put down a rough demo and then add other stuff like riffs lead guitar that sort of thing. then i play the acoustic type version live to the rest of the band and suggest the lead and riffs to the lead guitarist and everyone says their bit yay or nay its kinda the traditional way......however the second band im in everything is done by email,the bass player comes up with an idea sends it to the drummer he records his bit sends it to the guitarist he records his bit then to the keyboardist and finally to me i get a complete instrumental,I write some lyrics and record a vocal we then meet up and play the song at rehearsal, this is a fun and great way to go if all the band members are creative minded and dont have to be told what to play


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    #4
    mise1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭mise1


    hI
    Ive been playing guitar and singing/pub gigs etc for over 20 years, but there comes a time when you get sick of singing other peoples songs and so ive decided to start writing my own.Ive tried sitting down with a guitar and writing but i tend to get stuck into the same few chords and go around in circles.But i got good advice froma friend of mine who is a pretty well known singer/songwriter especially in the Cork area and he said always use just a pen and paper , the ideas flow quicker that way ,whereas with typing in say Microsoft word there is that delay, and theres something more free flowing with pen and paper, and it really works.
    what i strongly feel , and amany may disagree with me is that most songs especially good/great songs begin life as poetry, Mike Scott of the waterboys has written an album around the poetry of W.B Yeats(listen to the amazing songs of Leonard Cohen) then you can go to work with guitar or piano and marry the two together.

    As for writing for a band , i havent done it yet,although i am now in a rock /covers band
    i reckon the democratic approach is best, one person can write a few riffs, another a verse or 2 etc etc ive never written a riff in my life!! but i reckon study bands like guns and roses a lot of their stuff was written around Slash's riffs and Axl rose was agreat writer as well

    i also believe that you must feed your subconscious good stuff, books ,great films, listen to the older bands (not x factor!!), the great blues players, thats what the Stones did, Clapton/Rory Gallagher etc etc, thats the way it was always done

    youll never write grest music after watching Fair City, or reading Tabloid papers
    remember garbage in= garbage out ,that is so true
    As for technology
    i bought a brilliant little recorder caled the Zoom Hi , its super for recording song ideas,even full gigs, in perect stereo and the recordings can be downloaded as WaV files to a laptop/pc, it retials for less than 100euro
    Finally i would recommend you look up a website and google Robin Fredrick, she has written over 500 songs for tv, movies ,stage etc etc, theres aton of free info on her website and in the links section you can acess several songwriting competitions etc etc
    well worth checking out
    cheers and keep on writing and rockin!!!!!!!


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    #5
    mise1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭mise1


    CHECK OUT THIS LINK ITS INTERESTING
    THIS GUY HAS VERY GOOD VIDEOS ON U TUBE, HE SPEAKS ABOUT USING THE PENTATONIC SCALE TO CREATE HARMONIES ETC
    http://creativeguitarstudio.com/songwriting.php

    IVE ACTUAlly written another song yesterday, rock based , a bit along the lines of Neil Youns Ohio , but on electric with light distortion/drive
    what really works for me (as ive said in a later post) is just pen and paper,i might hear a word or phrase, read aLINE IN A BOOK, hear something on tv, that will spark something and once i just start writing it just flows,next ill type it up on computer then i go to the guitar and build a chord structure , and then a few riffs from he key /scale of the song, then run it by the band see what they think,once the structure is there for the song and you know your keys etc shouldnt be too hard
    REMEMBER SONG WRITING RULES: THERE ARENT ANY!!!! same as poetry, art etc etc
    be unique, be an individual, yes take ideas from others,eric clapton has done that for years from the blues, but make it your own
    cheers


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    #6
    raindog.promo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭raindog.promo


    Johnatorium wrote: »
    Just wondering what other people/bands thoughts are on the songwriting process.

    Do you start out with a riff, and start jammin it out until it evolves into something, or do you bring a full song to the band and try to explain it to them all?!

    At the moment, i'm recording all instruments myself so that we can just learn the tracks and start running through them.....but its a pain in the arse!!

    I did the same thing myself. In the end, the other people I was jamming with never bothered leaarning the parts so a bit of a wasted effort in that regard but I think it's very helpful to understand how each instrument works and having an appreciation of the function of each can only improve your playing/songwriting and ability to jam with other people as well as improvising.

    For myself, usually it's something I come up with on guitar. That gets recorded as a guide and I build the rest of the instruments around that which usually has an influence on the guitar so it changes a bit as the song grows. Then a new recording of the guitar goes on towards the end. I'm also editing on software I've been using a while now so I'm incorporating loops of recorded bits of guitar and re-editing the guitar which I then have to work out how to play :)

    Other times, using reason it'll start out with a piano piece and grow from there. I try and keep the writing process fresh and not stick to any type of formula. Besides which. Writing and recording all the parts means there's a huge learning curve and if I have 5 songs, by the time I'm on song 5 I've learnt so many new things that when listening to song 1 and 2 I see where I can use what I've learned to go back and improve them. It's enjoyable but bloody hard work alright.

    Edit: I also have a loop station which I'd use when coming up with stuff on guitar, so it would be in the writing process for a week or so usually before the whole recording part starts.

    Best of luck with it.


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    #7
    Muppetini
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭Muppetini


    Hi,
    Interesting thread! I am the main songwriter in my band, Caterpillar Jones. I write at home with Logic. I can be watching TV and hear something in the soundtrack that will set me off. What I end up with is usually quite different from the inspiration. After the initial buzz then the hard work begins. I will refine, change, edit and generally chip away until I get it right. I then send the MP3 to the singer, who will live with it for a while and then we do vocals. These days I will generally send MP3 straight to everyone and get their feedback. We then take the songs into rehearsal and see what happens. Sometimes the songs change a lot, sometimes a little but it works well. I'm a keys player so I tend to let the guitarist do his thing and I'll make suggestions.
    I get me inspiration from everywhere, radio, TV. I'm not advocating this but I find a slightly altered state of mind helps too! If you're a singer and you get an idea, sing it into your phone. Sometimes we'll write in rehearsal and that's great- very spontaneous and more often than not there will be something useful in a jam. If you jam a lot, record everything! I can't stress this highly enough. Your phone will do in a pinch but buy a stereo MP3 recorder. I use a Zoom H2 - great machine, cheap enough and you can export your ideas to your computer to edit/email to people.
    There are no rules to this but this is how I work. BTW, if you had said to me a year ago that I would write songs, I would have laughed. My point here is, if you're creative at all you can write songs. I'm not great on the theory side but I always go with my gut. After the initial buzz, its hard work. As Thomas Edison said: Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% persiration. So true!
    Hope this helps,
    Derek


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    #8
    raindog.promo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭raindog.promo


    Muppetini wrote: »
    Hi,
    Interesting thread! I am the main songwriter in my band, Caterpillar Jones. I write at home with Logic. I can be watching TV and hear something in the soundtrack that will set me off. What I end up with is usually quite different from the inspiration. After the initial buzz then the hard work begins. I will refine, change, edit and generally chip away until I get it right. I then send the MP3 to the singer, who will live with it for a while and then we do vocals. These days I will generally send MP3 straight to everyone and get their feedback. We then take the songs into rehearsal and see what happens. Sometimes the songs change a lot, sometimes a little but it works well. I'm a keys player so I tend to let the guitarist do his thing and I'll make suggestions.
    I get me inspiration from everywhere, radio, TV. I'm not advocating this but I find a slightly altered state of mind helps too! If you're a singer and you get an idea, sing it into your phone. Sometimes we'll write in rehearsal and that's great- very spontaneous and more often than not there will be something useful in a jam. If you jam a lot, record everything! I can't stress this highly enough. Your phone will do in a pinch but buy a stereo MP3 recorder. I use a Zoom H2 - great machine, cheap enough and you can export your ideas to your computer to edit/email to people.

    I love technology. It makes everything so much easier. I wish I were 10 years younger, I learned to edit on a reel to reel! And everything was so expensive and hard to get. We'd be envious of people with a 2 deck tape player, Because it would be a cheap enough way to overdub :)


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