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20% drop in commuters using buses

  • 13-12-2012 12:45pm
    #1
    lil5
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭


    20% fall in commuters using buses - Census
    RTE News -
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1213/census-figures.html

    The 2011 census found that commuters are increasingly cycling and taking trains to work while the numbers using buses fell.

    More than two out of three commuters or 69% travelled to work by car in 2011. This compares with 57% going to work by car in 1981.

    The figures are contained in the latest report from the Central Statistics Office drawn from the census carried out in April last year.

    The number of bus travellers among commuters fell by 20% or 23,277 in 2011 versus 2006. By contrast, rail commuters using a train, DART or Luas rose by 40,000 in 2011 compared with 1981.

    There was a 9.6% rise in the number of cyclists between 2006 and 2011. Nearly 40,000 cycled to work last year. Men accounted for nearly three quarters of all cyclists.

    ...


Comments

  • #2
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,349 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    The cycle to work scheme is the only good thing the Green Party did while in power.


  • #3
    padma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭padma


    job losses would have a key role in them figures too


  • #4
    FloatingVoter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭FloatingVoter


    Increased unemployment rates might play a factor - not needing to use the bus, but only using it when you want to makes a difference.
    And yes, definitely an increased number of cyclists on the streets of Dublin.


  • #5
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    The 2011 census found that commuters are increasingly cycling and taking trains to work while the numbers using buses fell.
    More than two out of three commuters or 69% travelled to work by car in 2011. This compares with 57% going to work by car in 1981.
    The figures are contained in the latest report from the Central Statistics Office drawn from the census carried out in April last year.
    The number of bus travellers among commuters fell by 20% or 23,277 in 2011 versus 2006. By contrast, rail commuters using a train, DART or Luas rose by 40,000 in 2011 compared with 1981.
    There was a 9.6% rise in the number of cyclists between 2006 and 2011. Nearly 40,000 cycled to work last year. Men accounted for nearly three quarters of all cyclists.
    Residents of Fingal, Laois, Westmeath, Meath, Kildare and Wicklow had the longest commuting times. More than one in seven of their residents took more than an hour to get to work.
    Waterford city, Donegal, Kerry and Mayo had the highest proportion of commuters with travel times less than 15 minutes.


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1213/census-figures.html


    I'm sure the fare increase will definitely help this. :rolleyes:


  • #6
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1213/census-figures.html


    I'm sure the fare increase will definitely help this. :rolleyes:

    I'm afraid it's not all about fares and not all restricted to the CIE companies either...

    http://www.aircoach.ie/news.article.php?ID=251


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • #7
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    I'm afraid it's not all about fares and not all restricted to the CIE companies either...

    http://www.aircoach.ie/news.article.php?ID=251



    It's says it's €9 for a ticket, I'd say fares certainly have something to do with it.


  • #8
    ballooba
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    I've stopped taking the bus. It's now cheaper for me to park in the city centre for the day than for 2 people's return journey on the bus (E1.90 per person each way). I usually walk, but on days where that is not practical I drive. I only use the bus if I'm boozing.


  • #9
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    It's says it's €9 for a ticket, I'd say fares certainly have something to do with it.
    especially when Dublin Bus Nr 16 also serves Ballinteer with intervals of 5 to 20 minutes and a fare a fraction of Aircoach, €2.45 with a Leap card.

    Although, you'd wonder how enterprising taxi drivers are a factor too.


  • #10
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    To be honest the 16 only intersects with a very small portion if the aircoach service. Most of aircoach's stops in Ballinteer are a reasonable walk away from the 16 route.

    Aircoach also served Dundrum, Churchtown and Templeogue, while only really joining with the 16 in Rathfarnham and Terenure.

    Most of Aircoach's customers would have been more likely to have used taxis previously.


  • #11
    mtjm
    Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭mtjm


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056831045

    Mods maybe can you combine the two topics? wish people could check before posting on the same topic


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  • #12
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    munchkin_utd wrote: »
    Although, you'd wonder how enterprising taxi drivers are a factor too.

    People who take the taxi driver up on offer of matching the fare of the bus only harm themselves in the long run at the end of the day but many are too naive or silly to realize this. It has caused both Aircoach and Nitelink to cut back services in recent times and raise prices.

    You will notice post December 24th, taxi drivers will no longer offer to match the price of the bus and will revert back to their 30-40 euro fares now they have wiped out the competition. The Public will then moan about this but at the end of the day if you ever got into a taxi and took them up on the offer you helped increase your own fare.


  • #13
    ballooba
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    devnull wrote: »
    You will notice post December 24th, taxi drivers will no longer offer to match the price of the bus and will revert back to their 30-40 euro fares now they have wiped out the competition.
    What's happening on December 24th?


  • #14
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Aircoach Ballinteer route finishes.


  • #15
    Slunk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,556 ✭✭✭Slunk


    I stopped using the bus in favour of cycling. Would cost me €25 a week on the bus but the service is shocking. Can never judge if ill be on time or late for work. Ghost buses on the real time info. Real time info jumping from 15 minutes to 3 minutes so don't know when to leave the house. If I do get a bus, its full of scum and junkies (40) and the driver may randomly tell you to get off halfway and wait on the next bus as he is on his break. A journey could take 25 minutes or well over an hour depending on these conditions.
    Ill cycle for free and be there quicker.


  • #16
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    lxflyer wrote: »
    To be honest the 16 only intersects with a very small portion if the aircoach service. Most of aircoach's stops in Ballinteer are a reasonable walk away from the 16 route.

    Aircoach also served Dundrum, Churchtown and Templeogue, while only really joining with the 16 in Rathfarnham and Terenure.

    Most of Aircoach's customers would have been more likely to have used taxis previously.


    All of those routes are one bus journey away from getting to a stop that uses the 16 though. Dundrum/churchtown have the 17 and possibly more, Templeogue has the 15,65,65b,49. Two journeys on the bus is still nearly half the price of the aircoach.


  • #17
    ardmacha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    The full report
    http://www.cso.ie/en/census/census2011reports/census2011profile10doortodoorcommutinginireland/

    this census asked about commuting to colleges and the like and there is a lot of students driving compared to days of yore.


  • #18
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    My bus route couldn't be handier. Door to door to work. But it takes forever. Goes all over the place. About 60~75 mins. Its a journey I drive in 35~75 min and cycle in 45~60 mins. Train takes the same 60~75 mins. So I either drive or cycle. I only use the bus if I'm drinking, which is rare enough these days, or for some reason I can't drive or cycle.

    If it was quicker I might take the bus. Which it could be if it took a direct route, and had bus lanes the whole way. But its my least comfortable way to travel.


  • #19
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    All of those routes are one bus journey away from getting to a stop that uses the 16 though. Dundrum/churchtown have the 17 and possibly more, Templeogue has the 15,65,65b,49. Two journeys on the bus is still nearly half the price of the aircoach.

    Do you honestly think people will take two bus journeys with suitcases rather than one?

    I don't think people are that price sensitive.


  • #20
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Do you honestly think people will take two bus journeys with suitcases rather than one?

    I don't think people are that price sensitive.



    I think people with numerous suitcases probably wouldn't take the aircoach anyway, probably just a taxi. People with small ones wouldn't mind taking two buses. For example the size of bags to get on a ryanair flight without paying extra fees would be pretty small so two buses wouldn't be that big of a chore. It's not just over the fare though, aircoach only ran once every hour afaik. There's a reason no one is getting the ballinteer,dundrum, churchtwon, templeogue, terenure Aircoach - if it's not fares then what would you put it down to?


  • #21
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Aircoach ran every half hour at peak times for the first eight months or so, but found that there wasn't demand for that. It's not like they didn't attempt to run it at higher frequency.

    It was clearly a gamble that didn't pay off, but at the end of the day it was always going to be difficult to make such a route work during the recession and you have to give them credit for giving it a go.

    Taxi drivers surely did not help though and something needs to be done about them picking up at Airlink, Nitelink and Aircoach stops, because in the long term the general public lose out by having no choice but to use taxis.


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  • #22
    martomcg
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭martomcg


    The number of bus travellers among commuters fell by 20% or 23,277 in 2011 versus 2006. By contrast, rail commuters using a train, DART or Luas rose by 40,000 in 2011 compared with 1981.

    I love the way they use accurate relevant figures when writing a news story. :confused:

    The LUAS only came into operation in 2004 so why they're using figures as far back as 1981 is beyond me.


  • #23
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    The census figures show that the majority of Rail and Bus users have journeys longer than an hour. By contrast, the numbers using rail and bus for journeys under 30 minutes is practically zero. The number of people driving is fairly stable across all journey times.

    Does this indicate that people prefer rail and bus for longer journeys, or that journeys by rail and bus are intrinsically slower than other modes?

    I would lean towards the latter, which would explain why less people are using the bus and opting for other modes. As it is, when I cycle to work I fall into the < 30mins category. If I take the bus, I fall into the 60-90 mins category.

    It could also be a simple matter of economic maths; less people at work means less people commuting.

    Indeed what's not mentioned is that the number of people walking to work dropped by 15%, motorbikes and scooters by a whopping 35%, and people travelling as passengers in cars dropped by 30-odd%.


  • #24
    RichieD
    Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭RichieD


    The bus is ****e and more expensive than ever


  • #25
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    I think people with numerous suitcases probably wouldn't take the aircoach anyway, probably just a taxi. People with small ones wouldn't mind taking two buses. For example the size of bags to get on a ryanair flight without paying extra fees would be pretty small so two buses wouldn't be that big of a chore. It's not just over the fare though, aircoach only ran once every hour afaik. There's a reason no one is getting the ballinteer,dundrum, churchtwon, templeogue, terenure Aircoach - if it's not fares then what would you put it down to?

    I don't think that the reason was that "no one" was getting it. It was that insufficient numbers to make it viable were getting it.

    The reality is that the Ballinteer route suffered from being the only aircoach route that was dependent on the residential leisure traveller market. It passed no significant industrial areas or hotels en route and as such had no single large location to feed into it.

    All of the other routes either pass through or close to the city centre and other hotels/industrial areas en route that would generate decent traffic levels.

    I think that here is a market for a service all right, but at a lower frequency and using smaller vehicles.

    To suggest that huge hoards of airport customers are using the 16 from the southern end of the route is simply not borne out by reality. The numbers only really start growing from the SCR onwards. Personally I find that the 14 to Busaras and a 747 from there is a faster option than the 16 from Ballinteer.

    It's a pity as taxis can cost up to €50 from he airport to Ballinteer. €9 for a 24 hour service was a very small price to pay. Back to avoiding early morning departures and late night arrivals again so.


  • #26
    NufcNavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭NufcNavan


    Definitely the opposite on the 109.

    It's been packed most mornings and evenings the last 2 years.


  • #27
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    lxflyer wrote: »
    The reality is that the Ballinteer route suffered from being the only aircoach route that was dependent on the residential leisure traveller market. It passed no significant industrial areas or hotels en route and as such had no single large location to feed into it.

    All of the other routes either pass through or close to the city centre and other hotels/industrial areas en route that would generate decent traffic levels. I think that here is a market for a service all right, but at a lower frequency and using smaller vehicles.

    To suggest that huge hoards of airport customers are using the 16 from the southern end of the route is simply not borne out by reality. The numbers only really start growing from the SCR onwards.

    It's a pity as taxis can cost up to €50 from he airport to Ballinteer. €9 for a 24 hour service was a very small price to pay. Back to avoiding early morning departures and late night arrivals again so.

    Broadly agree with that. There were a number of factors, some smaller than others that made this route not a success, I believe that it would have been hard to make a fist of it at the start.

    I don't think the Dublin Bus 16 route would have helped the route, but it certainly was not solely what made it unviable. The dependency on leisure traffic, illegally touting taxis, cost of fuel, cost of using the M50, quick but far distance wise, and the lack of being able to take free travel passes all combined to mean the route ultimately did not work out.

    They tried to deal with the taxi issue by discounting singles to €8 and returns to €14 online to encourage pre-booking, but generally people in this country don't pre-book services the way they do in others.


  • #28
    carlmango11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭carlmango11


    Dublin Bus provides a bad, bad service at very high prices. It's slow, unreliable, often infrequent and takes no action against anti-social behaviour on it's vehicles. People don't like using it. I really think it's that simple.

    The Luas is reliable, frequent and quick. The Dart can travel long distances fairly quickly. Both are more comfortable than the bus. At the end of the day I think buses, in general, are disliked by the public.


  • #29
    Kensington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Kensington


    I gave up on the bus as the primary commute about two years ago. Too many evenings stood on a cold, wet, windy Fleet Street for upwards of 40 minutes waiting for a 150 which supposedly ran every 15 minutes.

    Clearly, if the LUAS and Rail are seeing an increase in passenger numbers, people aren't basing their commute decision purely on price as both the LUAS and DART are comparatively more expensive than a similar journey on Dublin Bus.
    I can see why too, with LUAS or DART you'll have a pretty good idea of when your train will depart from your start station, you'll have a pretty good idea (give/take a few minutes) of when it'll arrive at it's destination station and you know if you do happen to miss one there'll be another one along shortly. Couldn't say that about any Dublin Bus route I've ever traveled on over the years (and it's not down to traffic).


  • #30
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    padma wrote: »
    job losses would have a key role in them figures too

    In an interesting article in this months Buses Magazine,Transport for London's Managing Director for Surface Transport,Leon Daniels, states that "Bus ridership in London (Currently at its highest since 1958) tracks population rather than economy"

    A factor which may go towards explaining the Bus Eireann 109 scenario....?
    NufcNavan:Definitely the opposite on the 109.

    It's been packed most mornings and evenings the last 2 years.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • #31
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    seamus wrote: »
    The census figures show that the majority of Rail and Bus users have journeys longer than an hour. By contrast, the numbers using rail and bus for journeys under 30 minutes is practically zero. The number of people driving is fairly stable across all journey times.

    Does this indicate that people prefer rail and bus for longer journeys, or that journeys by rail and bus are intrinsically slower than other modes?

    I would lean towards the latter, which would explain why less people are using the bus and opting for other modes. As it is, when I cycle to work I fall into the < 30mins category. If I take the bus, I fall into the 60-90 mins category.

    It could also be a simple matter of economic maths; less people at work means less people commuting.

    Indeed what's not mentioned is that the number of people walking to work dropped by 15%, motorbikes and scooters by a whopping 35%, and people travelling as passengers in cars dropped by 30-odd%.

    I hate the idea of looking at time without also have the distances.

    We're still waiting on the CSO for distances because they decided to go all out and scrap the old way of asking people distances, and chance to a system of asking their home and work/study locations.


  • #32
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    These graphs are from the report, which is worth scanning at least!

    I was just thinking: "there's a clear switch here"...

    232783.JPG

    And then I scrolled down to this...

    232784.JPG


  • #33
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Also Dublin vs the rest:

    232785.JPG

    Don't like the bunching of walking and cycling here.


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