New Liverpool Stadium Is Likely To Be Off

Dub13 · 28-08-2008 11:56pm #1

Several Forums are reporting the stadium will be shelved,I am sure this story will gather momentum over the next few days.

Liverpool's owners take another hefty blow

The Times

The troubled regime of Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr at Liverpool suffered another severe blow last night when it emerged that they are preparing to postpone construction of the club's new stadium because of difficulties raising the funds in an unforgiving financial market.

Hicks and Gillett had hoped that the building of a 60,000-capacity stadium on the site at Stanley Park, barely a quarter of a mile from the club's Anfield home, would start within weeks, dispelling some of the concerns about their ability to drive Liverpool forward. But their apparent failure to do so casts further doubt about their credibility as owners, increasing the pressure on them to sell to Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the ruler of Dubai.

The American tycoons will play down the significance of this latest setback, saying that the market conditions are not favourable for such large-scale borrowing, but, 18 months after they bought the club, pledging that building would start “within weeks”, it is another embarrassment that they could do without. According to one source, they were recently told by the Royal Bank of Scotland that they could borrow the money required for the £350million project on the condition that they could put up £200million in guarantees, but they have been unable to do so.

The Hicks-Gillett regime has appeared doomed since it emerged that they had invited Dubai International Capital (DIC), the private-equity investment arm of the Dubai Government, to buy a minority stake last October. Hicks blocked DIC's bid to buy the club for £400million earlier this year, but the Dubai interest remains, albeit now presented as a consortium headed by Sheikh Mohammed, rather than under the DIC banner. The Dubai consortium still expects Hicks and Gillett, whose relationship remains tense, to return to sell within months, aware that their most recent refinancing package is up for renewal in January, albeit with the option of a six-month extension.

suckslikeafox · 28-08-2008 11:58pm

Good news for Rafa then

CiaranC · 29-08-2008 12:00am

Maybe they could get a few thousand Oirish muppets to stump up the cash

bUILDERtHEbOB · 29-08-2008 12:01am

I don't know what to make of this tbh. The loan they took out is now completely pointless and they've now probably lost the club £30-60m in interest payments over nothing, great business. Hopefully it means the end for them at any rate.

Guy:Incognito · 29-08-2008 12:01am

They really are doing all the right things to fast track that fan-funded permenant statue in their honour outside Anfield arent they.

Charlie · 29-08-2008 12:02am

These two clowns make me heart Mike Ashley.

zing · 29-08-2008 12:08am

It's been reported by a few people that the portion of their last financing deal to be used for the stadium was ring fenced. If so the club is now paying millions in interest for nothing.

Charlie · 29-08-2008 12:11am

Highlights just how important it was for the scousers to get through last night.

leninbenjamin · 29-08-2008 12:14am

and so it begins again. I knew the silence on the H&G sh*t would end once the silly season was over.

This should be the final nail in the coffin for H&G, although i doubt it will be. as an economic entity Liverpool FC is massively underperforming, when you consider their history and the size of their fan base. This is yet another symptom. but i think H&G will find a way to ride the storm for another year or so yet. worrying times though; just what will it take to get them to bail out?

~Rebel~ · 29-08-2008 1:34am

Its fuking nuts.

So the gist of their dealings in relation to the new stadium go as follows;
-Promise to begin building within weeks of buying
-Postpone building saying the existing stadium plans are too small and unoriginal
-Pay hundreds of thousands for a whole new kickass design between 70 - 80,000 capacity
-Realise they cant afford this and scrap
-Pay TWO firms to seperately make new plans, again spending hundreds of thousands
-Decide on a scaled down version of their first design and take out a massive loan to fund it
-No work begins bar some site preperation and clearing
-Massive loan and interests dumped on the club, when they again scrap it.

Christ, like! And these guys are self made millionaires?! They're just throwing money down the fuking drain! I suppose it would be different if it were their money. Liverpool can't compete longterm without the new stadium, and are now 10steps back as they have to pay off loans for an imaginary stadium as well as needing to take new loans whenever the stadium plans come back online again! You couldn't make up what a joke the whole mess has been. Hopefully, Hopefully, this will lead to someone coming in who can at least manage an asset properly.

CHD · 29-08-2008 8:23am

Those lads in Dubai will have there new pastime of owning Liverpool soon so

godtabh · 29-08-2008 9:30am

CiaranC wrote: »

Maybe they could get a few thousand Oirish muppets to stump up the cash

What do you mean by this?

who's name are the loans against? Is it Liverpool or the owners?

zing · 29-08-2008 9:41am

Confirmed by the club - and they're going to revise the plans yet again. ffs

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N161087080829-0923.htm

gixerfixer · 29-08-2008 9:47am

Excellent news all round. Bye bye the two yanks.:) Thanks for everything

Mr Alan · 29-08-2008 9:50am

too many false dawns thinking they cant possibly stay anymore, dont think this will be the end of it either

they're like leaches, hard to shake off.

gixerfixer · 29-08-2008 10:02am

leninbenjamin wrote: »

and so it begins again. I knew the silence on the H&G sh*t would end once the silly season was over.

This should be the final nail in the coffin for H&G, although i doubt it will be. as an economic entity Liverpool FC is massively underperforming, when you consider their history and the size of their fan base. This is yet another symptom. but i think H&G will find a way to ride the storm for another year or so yet. worrying times though; just what will it take to get them to bail out?

Two words. Stadium boycott. I've being saying it for ages now. Yes it may effect the players but in the long run it is bigger than winning silverware. The future of the club is in doubt with the two bloodsuckers at the helm and nothing is more important than ridding ourselves of them. A few weeks of home games with only the away support at Anfield and see how long they hang about. Protests outside the ground,shirt boycotts all help but wont work . Only problem is there is way to many daytrippers in Anfield nowadays and i dont know if they would stay away. Some kind of picket outside on matchday has been mentioned before and this could work in preventing the prawn sandwich crowd gaining entry (or at the very least make them feel guilty about going in)...Like i said desperate times call for desperate messures. If they stay then expect a stadium share with the bitters to be announced sooner rather than later

.

mike65 · 29-08-2008 10:36am

Here's a piece I've lifted from another place

It seems Tom Hicks leaves a trail of devastation wherever goes. His disastrous foray into the Brazilian football market as chairman of Hicks, Muse, Tate & Furst left Corinthians, the second most popular club in Brazil, in a state of turmoil. The parallels between what happened to Corinthians and what is currently happening at Liverpool are unsettling to say the least:

There was the initial blaze of publicity and fanfare when the company bought the club in 1999, with promises of big spending on the best players and the construction of a brand new 45,000 seater stadium in the suburbs of Sao Paulo.

There was an initial capital investment to tie down existing players and to finance the purchase one or two other additional players. The economics behind the Corinthians deal appeared to be based on ridiculously rudimentary logic: “If you add up all the fans of professional baseball, basketball, football and hockey in the United States, that number is lower than the number of Brazilians who are soccer fans.” Clearly, no proper risk analysis had been undertaken - a situation which resonates with the due diligence period of 3 days prior to the purchase of Liverpool.

This flimsy approach was reinforced by the apparently rash and impulsive purchase of Cruzeiro six months later - traits which Liverpool fans are rapidly coming to associate with Hicks. There was also the emphasis on the cheaper “young players”, with the following quote from the (unfortunately named) Richard Law, president of Hicks’ subsidiary group: “Our job is not to turn back the inevitable, but to build Corinthians and Cruzeiro up from the junior ranks.” Hicks followed a similar tack following the takeover of Liverpool: “You need to keep your star players but also develop your young players. Young players are the lifeblood of your team, so we talked about how we can improve that side of the team.”

Corinthians had already won the Brazilian championship in 1998, so Hicks inherited a winning team. The initial expenditure assisted in retaining the league title in Dec 1999 and the club also won the inaugural FIFA Club World Championship the following month.

This is where things started to go wrong. Unable to resist the temptation to make a quick buck, HICKS BEGAN SELLING TRANSFER RIGHTS TO THE CLUB’S STAR PLAYERS. On top of that, he decided on the bizarre idea of changing the traditional colour of the club’s shirt. He also introduced sponsorship (something which Corinthians fans felt defiled their heritage).

All of these things led to a furious reaction from supporters and widespread protest against Hicks and his partners. The company bailed out three years later, ironically having accused its local partner in Brazil of “misappropriating funds” (read this and you’ll understand).

Corinthians began to spiral downwards. MSI took over the club’s management but, despite a league title in 2005, the financial problems initiated by Hicks proved too much of a burden. The club was relegated to the second tier of Brazilian football for the first time in its history in December 2007.

THERE WAS NO NEW STADIUM. Hicks invested about five hundred million dollars and within two years filed for bankruptcy.

In a recent prospectus issued to financial companies in London, Hicks claims in to be “a master of purchasing and growing professional sports teams”.

Liverpool fans, Texas Rangers fans and Corinthians fans might disagree.

Mike.

monkey9 · 29-08-2008 10:45am

Did the people who sold the club to these cowboys not actually google their names first??

Mitch Connor · 29-08-2008 10:48am

monkey9 wrote: »

Did the people who sold the club to these cowboys not actually google their names first??

Seemingly not, as a good number of the fans don't seem to have done so either, considering how delighted they were at the time of the take-over.

gixerfixer · 29-08-2008 10:52am

Parry and David Morres. They are the ones responsible. Rumours presist that they had agreed a deal with D.I.C. in 2005 and at he last minute took a backhander from G&H to accept their offer over the arabs. They should be ashamed of themselves.:mad:

gixerfixer · 29-08-2008 11:00am

Tauren wrote: »

Seemingly not, as a good number of the fans don't seem to have done so either, considering how delighted they were at the time of the take-over.

In fairness the vast majority of Liverpool fans (the real fans not the sit in a pub in tallaght and watch the game on a Sunday with the kids type) where not happy with the takeover at all. But i understand your point. A lot of idiots just rolled the red carpet out when they arrived like they where saviours of the club.

PHB · 29-08-2008 11:04am

Lets hope its gotten to the stage where interest payments are so high that theres no way that they can make a profit wiithout the new stadium. Since they can't build it, the club will have 0 chance of moving up in profitability, meaning they've no reason to stay [unless they want to stick it out for 2 years when credit is easier to get]. Then they lower their valuation and sell to somebody else

zAbbo · 29-08-2008 11:11am

gixerfixer wrote: »

Parry and David Morres. They are the ones responsible. Rumours presist that they had agreed a deal with D.I.C. in 2005 and at he last minute took a backhander from G&H to accept their offer over the arabs. They should be ashamed of themselves.:mad:

There's suspicion surrounded how G&H were able to get their proposal together so quick, rumours that research DIC had done was leaked to them.

I agree Parry and Moores are certainly the one's responsible for the fiasco

monkey9 · 29-08-2008 11:49am

Tauren wrote: »

Seemingly not, as a good number of the fans don't seem to have done so either, considering how delighted they were at the time of the take-over.

It wasn't up to the fans to investigate the cowboys backgrounds as they weren't the ones who were selling the club

zing · 29-08-2008 12:02pm

Expect the whole grounshare thing to rear it's head again now

Charlie · 29-08-2008 2:11pm

I said this before, but anyobody who has any sort of interest in Baseball could tell what a terrible owner Tom Hicks is, and how he has fcuked up on countless occasions. Coupled with the story about Corinthians, I am shocked that Moores, a man who is supposed to be Liverpool through and through, either didn't do his homework, or ignored all the warning signs. Either way, someone fcuked up big style letting these clowns anywhere near your club.

Tom Hicks reminds of the trail of destruction this bloke leaves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql744tSfnXM

Mitch Connor · 29-08-2008 2:13pm

monkey9 wrote: »

It wasn't up to the fans to investigate the cowboys backgrounds as they weren't the ones who were selling the club

No, but maybe you lot could have looked into the background of your buyers before delighting in their arrival and trying to rub it in the faces of others, notably the United fans with the 600million debt on their club. "OOOHHHH we'll have no debt, all the best players and a new stadium"

jank · 29-08-2008 2:20pm

Thanks fack that arsenal built their stadium when they did. Saying that there is a debt there but its very manageable.

I wonder will rafa walk this year?

No, but maybe you lot could have looked into the background of your buyers before delighting in their arrival and trying to rub it in the faces of others, notably the United fans with the 600million debt on their club. "OOOHHHH we'll have no debt, all the best players and a new stadium[\quote]

Maybe speak for yoursleves. Loads of rival fans were delighted that Arsenal were moving stadium calling it "Ashburton Grave!!"

Dub13 · 29-08-2008 5:44pm

jank wrote: »

Thanks fack that arsenal built their stadium when they did. Saying that there is a debt there but its very manageable.

I don't think arsenal are as financially sound as they are making out.But as you said at least they have the ground built.

Dub13 · 29-08-2008 5:51pm

The SOS is doing all it can to provide a focus for dissent and protest against G&H and their pathetic tenure at the club.

The SOS can do this more effectively with the resources and mandate that YOUR memberships provide.

So - don't dither - join today! We're doing all we can to expose the lies coming from the club (their press release today is little more than a spun rewording of the original leak (ie) credit crunch ..blah blah .. plans on hold ... blah). We are working constantly with the press to ensure this doesn't go away, and that G&H are forced into an untenable position.

So, please, if you care about the future of the club, visit the SOS website, take a look at who we are, what we want to try and achieve - and if you are in agreement then please support us. It's not good saying that we are doing a good job and then sitting back. A Union will only work as long as it has the strength of its membership behind it. Don't leave it to somebody else - your union NEEDS YOU!

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/

Join on-line today.

leninbenjamin · 29-08-2008 6:18pm

Dub13 wrote: »

I don't think arsenal are as financially sound as they are making out.

I keep seeing that but i don't understand the rationale behind it. they had all their loans wrapped up before the credit crises hit. they have the repayments spread out over a fairly long period. the new stadium has increased revenue substantially. the only possible hiccup i can see is in the Highbury apartments, but by all accounts most have been already sold? on paper they seem sound.

hmmm, that's a bit offtopic i guess; and comparison's with the Arsenal model are pretty useless anyway. completely different club, completely different fanbase, completely different model.

jank · 29-08-2008 6:45pm

I agree. They have debt but its very manageable and they are after making huge profits since they moved. Match day turnover is supposed to be the highest in the world!

Helix · 29-08-2008 6:57pm

gixerfixer wrote: »

Two words. Stadium boycott

too many plastic, once a year daytripping fans for that to work at a club like liverpool

short of boycotters buying tickets and not going, anfield would still get a crowd

but doing that would still be giving them your money

Dub13 · 30-08-2008 12:33pm

The Echo

Liverpool FC stadium crisis: Well it finally comes down to the crunch

Aug 30 2008 by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

INFLUENTIAL thinker Carl Jung is well known in these parts for once describing Liverpool as “the pool of life”, a quote which would later become a PR man’s dream.

There is another quotation from the Swiss physician which resonates just as greatly when discussing the current goings on at the football club which bears this city’s name.

According to Jung “The man who promises everything is sure to fulfil nothing,” and with Liverpool’s stadium plans having been delayed yet again it is easy to build a case for this particular reflection to be applied to Messrs Hicks and Gillett.

It is now a mind boggling 571 days since George Gillett told Liverpool’s fans that a spade would go into Stanley Park within 60 days of he and his fellow American taking over the club in February 2007.

There have been workmen on site doing “preparatory work” but the only digging that has been done was performed by members of fans group the Spirit of Shankly who took their own spades along to the Victorian park in April in protest at the lack of progress.

Since then, Tom Hicks and his inner circle have constantly rejected suggestions that he and his co-owner lacked the necessary finance to go ahead with the construction of a stadium which will cost in excess of £300m.

Hicks has also been at pains to point out that the stadium dream would not be derailed by the credit crunch even though the cost of borrowing and the price of steel have both become much more prohibitive during the current economic downturn.

Even when his Dallas Glorypark went belly up because of the crunch four months ago, Hicks still stuck to his guns telling anyone who dared ask questions about what the economic cycle would mean to the Stanley Park plans that it made no difference whatsoever.

You didn’t need a degree in economics or pure mathematics to realise that this just didn’t add up and yesterday the worst fears of Liverpool’s fans were confirmed when Liverpool released a statement confirming that building work would be delayed after all.

“Global market conditions”, the very same ones which Hicks was adamant would not curtail work, were mentioned of course as he tried to portray himself as the innocent victim of a seemingly unstoppable international downturn.

Texan businessmen have a reputation for talking tough and cutting through the bull****, so surely Tom won’t mind the fact that SOS have cut to the chase and said what everyone else is thinking, namely that the two current owners of Liverpool FC do not have either the dough or the ability to run one of the world’s greatest clubs.

Like many other people close to what is going on at Anfield, SOS had been expecting yesterday’s announcement for some time.

The decision to delay the stadium was not taken this week, rumours first began circulating that this would happen several weeks ago when a key member of the design team was recalled to the US.

Hicks is currently taking PR advice from London based Freud Communications in another clear sign that there are currently two clubs at Liverpool – one at Anfield and Melwood and one in the US which uses satellite companies for its own ends.

The best bit of advice that Hicks could currently be given is that unless he turned up at the Shankly Gates with a fistful of dollars to fund the proposed new stadium and to provide Rafa Benitez with his first choice signings then there is virtually no chance of winning over the Liverpool fans.

Promises have been made and promises have been broken and football fans by their very nature have the longest of memories. So it is highly unlikely that there is any way that the Liverpool supporters will alter their feelings about the duo.

Hicks and Gillett are currently the only people in the world who could claim to be less popular on the Kop than Gary Neville and that is an incredible achievement after just 18 months in control.

Perhaps the only way they could boost their popularity would be to walk away before they can do any more damage. Anything else will only add to the current incessant pain that everyone who holds Liverpool Football Club dear is currently feeling.

tonybarrett@liverpoolecho.co.uk

Mr Alan · 30-08-2008 4:49pm

CALLING HELIX!!!!!!!

now didnt you swear blind to me that Hicks and Gillette told Tony Barrett in the Echo wat to write? How that was Liverpools mouth piece?

How that a source of yours in the echo office assured you of this? (notably the same source seems to have been wrong about a few calls you've made)

what are the yanks reasons for wanting that article above in the paper?

If you dont give any, i presume you will man enough to admit just how wrong you were.

heres another anti-G&H article from Tony by the way. who incidently was also involved in the foundation of the Spirit of Shankly organisation. you're just so wrong about most things that its funny.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/08/30/mp-liverpool-fc-sale-to-americans-a-major-blunder-100252-21636886/

bohsman · 30-08-2008 5:02pm

Helix wrote: »

too many plastic, once a year daytripping fans for that to work at a club like liverpool

An el fan wouldnt get away with saying that.

Could a ground share with Everton not work? Especially seeing as its a fairly friendly rivalry compared to most. I mean if it can work in Milan...

Guy:Incognito · 30-08-2008 5:19pm

bohsman wrote: »

Could a ground share with Everton not work? Especially seeing as its a fairly friendly rivalry compared to most. I mean if it can work in Milan...

Could all the Dublin clubs not join together for the good of the EL and form one club with loads of support?

Hero Of College · 30-08-2008 5:21pm

Listen, you lot, the British Economy is facing into the worst period it has seen for 60 years. Stop blaming the Yanks for the mess the stadium plans are in.

oobydooby · 30-08-2008 5:24pm

Eircom league rivals do share grounds when they must. I don't think anyone was advocating merging Liverpool and Everton football clubs.

I'd like to hear the hard-core Liverpool fans' views on the idea of a stadium merger. It seems it would make sense if the Liverpool county council built a great stadium for both teams (and for concerts etc.) which Everton and Liverpool could rent at a favourable rate (avoiding heaping debt on the clubs) and which would not add to the "asset base" of the clubs thus repelling potential "investors".

Hero Of College · 30-08-2008 5:28pm

The sooner the arse falls out of the market the better, players should be prepared to bargain over 2 things only: the man they play for, and the club they play for.

All this need to sell more and more tickets via bigger stadia and sell jerseys to billions of nameless faceless Asians to pay the wages and transfer fees of players is not football.

Arsenal and Chelsea were able to win titles in their old tin pot stadia. Did United up sticks and leave? No.

bohsman · 30-08-2008 5:29pm

Stekelly wrote: »

Could all the Dublin clubs not join together for the good of the EL and form one club with loads of support?

If your suggestion was for all the Dublin clubs to come together and buy Croke park and play all games there I might go for it.

Seriously, has a groundshare been suggested at all? Oobydooby makes most of the points I would have made.

Helix · 30-08-2008 5:33pm

bohsman wrote: »

An el fan wouldnt get away with saying that.

im an el fan as well as an epl fan tho

fact is its true. united, liverpool, celtic and perhaps to a lesser extent arsenal and chelsea fans wouldnt be able to pull off stadium boycotts. theres too many people whod simply take it as an opportunity to get easy tickets for a game

bohsman · 30-08-2008 5:35pm

it wouldnt work either way, whatever about the billions of faceless irish/asians there are plenty of locals who would be delighted to get a chance to get tickets even if there was a boycott on.

oobydooby · 30-08-2008 5:37pm

Helix wrote: »

fact is its true. united, liverpool, celtic and perhaps to a lesser extent arsenal and chelsea fans wouldnt be able to pull off stadium boycotts. theres too many people whod simply take it as an opportunity to get easy tickets for a game

You do have a point there. And it's expressed in a more reasonable manner in this post than in your other post.

There would probably also be a number of regular fans who would support the team no matter what and would not agree with the boycott.

Chardee MacDennis · 30-08-2008 5:51pm

according to the boys on gilette soccer Saturday arsenal and united are earning about 2.5 - 3m more than Liverpool per home game, I am not sure how accurate those figures are but they are probably in the ball park. A shared stadium owned by the coco will not produce that kind of turnover and I know that for a fact. Plus lfc want an anfield mark 2 with a new kop and our own trophy room and club shop with no blue noses in sight! We will never go for a stadium share for financial reasons and out of pride!

PHB · 30-08-2008 6:23pm

A shared stadium can produce the same reason, no reason why it can't.

Pride is for the silly if it hurts you. Groundshare with Everton resulting in a 70k+ with loads of corporate boxs is something that is essential for Liverpool, and if a ground share is the only way to get that, then suck it up. It works for the 2 Milans, don't see why it can't work for Liverpool and Everton.

Hero Of College · 30-08-2008 6:25pm

PHB wrote: »

A shared stadium can produce the same reason, no reason why it can't.

Pride is for the silly if it hurts you. Groundshare with Everton resulting in a 70k+ with loads of corporate boxs is something that is essential for Liverpool, and if a ground share is the only way to get that, then suck it up. It works for the 2 Milans, don't see why it can't work for Liverpool and Everton.

Thanks, but no thanks. You keep your prawn sandwich brigade.

Helix · 30-08-2008 6:29pm

Hero Of College wrote: »

Thanks, but no thanks. You keep your prawn sandwich brigade.

they pay the bills

bohsman · 30-08-2008 6:31pm

Hero Of College wrote: »

Thanks, but no thanks. You keep your prawn sandwich brigade.

Go support FC United then, prawn sandwich brigade is vital for success.

PHB · 30-08-2008 6:31pm

Hero Of College wrote: »

Thanks, but no thanks. You keep your prawn sandwich brigade.

Yeh. Well then you can keep buying the likes of Torres once every 5 years, because thats where all the money comes from.
Corporate boxes pay the bills, anyone who can't realise that needs their head checked.

DeadSkin · 30-08-2008 6:37pm

Hero Of College wrote: »

Thanks, but no thanks. You keep your prawn sandwich brigade.

There will always be a prawn sandwich brigade, no matter who you support, like it or not.

On the new stadium being held up yet again, can't say that I'm surprised.

New Liverpool Stadium Is Likely To Be Off

Comments