What Kind Of Parliment Did We Have Pre-Act Of Union?

mikefoxo · 01-04-2015 11:08pm #1

I'm wondering was it similar to a sort of Home Rule or could it control practically all aspects? Presumably defence was looked after by London? I've heard there were trade restrictions with Irish produce too

Manach · 01-04-2015 11:14pm

I could not give details of the special legislative powers off-hand, but from what I remember from Bios of Anglo-Irish like Welseley (Wellington) or Burke, they perferred to make their career in London's. This implies where the real-power lay in the political dynamic.

pedroeibar1 · 02-04-2015 12:21am

The Dublin Parliament was a talking-shop for the less important, but some did use it to try to boost ‘nationalist’ ideals. The real political action and fortunes were in London.

Much of today’s common belief on the powers of the Irish Parliament is lore rather than fact. It had little power - for example, the Penal Laws were largely a waste of time, life for the average Irish RC simply went on. The Irish Parliament passed the various Popery Acts but had no power to enforce them, because the Irish civil service of the day was under the control of London, not Dublin. In theory the laws could have been enforced by the town mayors and constables, but those people had more serious matters in hand that worrying about some ‘popish priests’ and a few masses. I need to look it up, but there was a complaint from a mayor - Kilkenny I think - stating that there were almost no Protestants in the city and there were dozens of 'popish' priests and teachers. Compare that with the decrees of the Penal Laws.

As a generality, what was important to London was enforced (money/trade protectionism, not religion) , Westminster and the Established Church were not on the best of terms and the Dublin Parliament was just a sideshow.

Peregrinus · 02-04-2015 2:36am

For much of its history it was highly subordinate to Westminster. Poynings' Law (an Act passed by the Irish Parliament itself in the reign of Henry VII) provided that it could not consider any business until it had first been approved by the English Privy Council, which meant in practice that the English government had a complete veto on any legislation being passed, or even being considered, by the Irish Parliament. Plus, as already pointed out, actual implementation of whatever legislation was passed was in the hands of the executive, which was headed by the Lord Lieutenant, who was appointed from London.

Furthermore, the Declaratory Act of 1719, an Act of the British Parliament, asserted the right of the British Parliament to make laws for Ireland, overriding if necessary any laws made by the Irish Parliament.

The restrictions imposed by these laws were lifted in 1782, ushering in a period of comparative legislative freedom for the Irish Parliament.

The Parliament of this period is generally called "Grattan's Parliament", if you want to google it. Its apparent legislative freedom was limited by practical considerations; the executive was still wholly controlled from London, and the Parliament was not remotely representative of, or supported by, the bulk of the population; it represented a narrow class whose political ascendancy was largely dependent on the continued will of the British to maintain it. So, basically, they couldn't adopt any measure that would seriously piss them off in London. But even with these limitations the Parliament was still a little more independent that London was comfortable with, which was one of the factors leading to the Act of Union, and the abolition of the Irish Parliament.

KingBrian2 · 02-04-2015 9:21pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

For much of its history it was highly subordinate to Westminster. Poynings' Law (an Act passed by the Irish Parliament itself in the reign of Henry VII) provided that it could not consider any business until it had first been approved by the English Privy Council, which meant in practice that the English government had a complete veto on any legislation being passed, or even being considered, by the Irish Parliament. Plus, as already pointed out, actual implementation of whatever legislation was passed was in the hands of the executive, which was headed by the Lord Lieutenant, who was appointed from London.

Furthermore, the Declaratory Act of 1719, an Act of the British Parliament, asserted the right of the British Parliament to make laws for Ireland, overriding if necessary any laws made by the Irish Parliament.

The restrictions imposed by these laws were lifted in 1782, ushering in a period of comparative legislative freedom for the Irish Parliament.

The Parliament of this period is generally called "Grattan's Parliament", if you want to google it. Its apparent legislative freedom was limited by practical considerations; the executive was still wholly controlled from London, and the Parliament was not remotely representative of, or supported by, the bulk of the population; it represented a narrow class whose political ascendancy was largely dependent on the continued will of the British to maintain it. So, basically, they couldn't adopt any measure that would seriously piss them off in London. But even with these limitations the Parliament was still a little more independent that London was comfortable with, which was one of the factors leading to the Act of Union, and the abolition of the Irish Parliament.

The first conceptualisations of Irish Nationhood emerged from "Grattan's' Parliament" but most laws concerning money, law and defence came form London although as far back as the 1740's Dubliners like Charles Lucas and James La Touche campaigned for local democracy.

Qualitymark · 07-04-2015 8:21am

Not really the first conceptualisation of Irish nationhood - that was in existence long before in the poetry and song of Gaelic Ireland.
The parliament was an all-Protestant affair; it was not democratic, but represented the propertied classes.

What Kind Of Parliment Did We Have Pre-Act Of Union?

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