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N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [open to traffic]

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Comments

  • #552
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    marno21 wrote: »
    Should find out in the next few weeks who will be responsible for letting us watch this daily event come to an end
    Not looking forward to my evening commute back to Douglas over the next few years while the new intersection is being built...!


  • #553
    questionmark?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,075 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Aontachtoir wrote: »
    Not looking forward to my evening commute back to Douglas over the next few years while the new intersection is being built...!

    Just imagine how bad it will get if it isn't built. Not to mention how if the city grinds to a halt the much wanted investment won't come. No pain no gain and there will be a lot of gain from doing this upgrade.


  • #554
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Agreed - the Dunkettle upgrade has to happen and it will be well worth it when it is. That said, looking again at Marno's picture I realised that my commute will not only take me through the Dunkettle works traffic, it will also send me straight into the future M28 works traffic too...
     453730.jpg
    I guess you're right though. No pain, no gain! 8-)


  • #555
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Aontachtoir wrote: »
    Agreed - the Dunkettle upgrade has to happen and it will be well worth it when it is. That said, looking again at Marno's picture I realised that my commute will not only take me through the Dunkettle works traffic, it will also send me straight into the future M28 works traffic too...
     453730.jpg
    I guess you're right though. No pain, no gain! 8-)
    I believe the reason Dunkettle will take 3 years is because there will be a focus on retaining the current running lanes at peak times to avoid gridlock.

    In the same way the tunnel closes now and then I can see most work requiring lane closures and/or full road closures taking place between 10pm and 6am.

    There's simply no way you could bring the tunnel down to one lane at 4-7pm in the evening. We had that in 2015 and it didn't work out very well.


  • #556
    pigtown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭pigtown


    Aontachtoir wrote: »
    Agreed - the Dunkettle upgrade has to happen and it will be well worth it when it is. That said, looking again at Marno's picture I realised that my commute will not only take me through the Dunkettle works traffic, it will also send me straight into the future M28 works traffic too...
     453730.jpg
    I guess you're right though. No pain, no gain! 8-)

    Wait what changes will occur along the N40 due to the M28 works?


  • #557
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Sisk have been awarded the contract by TII to construct the Dunkettle Interchange Improvement Scheme.

    Let the fun begin!

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/builder-sisk-reports-profit-jump-of-73-to-24-7m-for-2017-1.3544316

    https://twitter.com/CISireland/status/1014494819673169922


  • #558
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    marno21 wrote: »
    Sisk have been awarded the contract by TII to construct the Dunkettle Interchange Improvement Scheme.

    Let the fun begin!

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/builder-sisk-reports-profit-jump-of-73-to-24-7m-for-2017-1.3544316

    https://twitter.com/CISireland/status/1014494819673169922

    I have never seen a thread so quiet after good news!

    Dunkettle Interchange awarded to Sisk. Early works to begin in Q4, full start in Q1 2019. Traffic management and other planning works ongoing until then


  • #559
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    marno21 wrote: »
    I have never seen a thread so quiet after good news!

    Dunkettle Interchange awarded to Sisk. Early works to begin in Q4, full start in Q1 2019. Traffic management and other planning works ongoing until then

    What’s the timescale like on it? 3 years with phased openings?

    Traffic management will be a nightmare just like M50 junction upgrades.


  • #560
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    What’s the timescale like on it? 3 years with phased openings?

    Traffic management will be a nightmare just like M50 junction upgrades.

    3+ years likely. It'll be similar to the M50 alright I'd say but it'll be very difficult given the tight area, railway line, gradient requirements etc


  • #561
    Leonard Hofstadter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    Between this and the M28 finally being approved it's been an excellent week for Cork. It's not going to be fun stuck in the inevitable traffic when the work is ongoing but it will all be worth it! Finally our city is moving forward!


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  • #562
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Interesting article in the Echo today. In response to questions about the possibility of tolling the Dunkettle interchange after its completion, the County Hall roads director indicated that tolling was not being considered for that stretch of road. He separately added:

    "TII have asked us to get a motorway reclassification study done in relation to the N40 South Ring Road and what things would need to be done there if it was reclassified. There is also an intelligent transport system being installed both in Dunkettle and on the entire length on the N40 and the various roads coming into the N40 such as the Airport Road and the N71."

    Not so sure what exactly an "intelligent transport system" means to daily road users, but this is the first confirmation I have seen in the media (ie not on this forum or the TII website) that plans are underway to reclassify the N40. Can't happen soon enough.

    https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/No-toll-plan-for-Dunkettle-bypass-a572d241-0586-4c02-b93e-2274fece016f-ds


  • #563
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Aontachtoir wrote: »
    Interesting article in the Echo today. In response to questions about the possibility of tolling the Dunkettle interchange after its completion, the County Hall roads director indicated that tolling was not being considered for that stretch of road. He separately added:

    "TII have asked us to get a motorway reclassification study done in relation to the N40 South Ring Road and what things would need to be done there if it was reclassified. There is also an intelligent transport system being installed both in Dunkettle and on the entire length on the N40 and the various roads coming into the N40 such as the Airport Road and the N71."

    Not so sure what exactly an "intelligent transport system" means to daily road users, but this is the first confirmation I have seen in the media (ie not on this forum or the TII website) that plans are underway to reclassify the N40. Can't happen soon enough.

    https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/No-toll-plan-for-Dunkettle-bypass-a572d241-0586-4c02-b93e-2274fece016f-ds

    I believe this is referring to new sets of gantries relaying real time traffic information.


  • #564
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Aontachtoir wrote: »
    https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/No-toll-plan-for-Dunkettle-bypass-a572d241-0586-4c02-b93e-2274fece016f-ds


    The name of that article makes me cringe.


  • #565
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057826801

    I've created a thread here for discussion of the M40 reclassification, and indeed the ITS and diversion upgrades. For all non Dunkettle chat, that thread would be best.


  • #566
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/free-app-to-alert-drivers-to-traffic-issues-at-corks-dunkettle-interchange-859171.html

    TII to publish app to provide drivers with real time information on delays/diversions at the Dunkettle Interchange for the upgrade


  • #567
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    marno21 wrote: »
    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/free-app-to-alert-drivers-to-traffic-issues-at-corks-dunkettle-interchange-859171.html

    TII to publish app to provide drivers with real time information on delays/diversions at the Dunkettle Interchange for the upgrade

    Cant wait for the delays causes by drivers crashing while using their phone....


  • #568
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    I'm dreading the backup of traffic here when the works begin and are ongoing, but I wouldn't have it any other way, the place is a bloody nightmare. Realistically speaking this should have been incorporated into the works during construction of the tunnel, hindsight is a great thing however.


  • #569
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    I'm dreading the backup of traffic here when the works begin and are ongoing, but I wouldn't have it any other way, the place is a bloody nightmare. Realistically speaking this should have been incorporated into the works during construction of the tunnel, hindsight is a great thing however.

    Before the tunnel it used to be an at grade Roundabout.

    The flyover was the solution when the tunnel opened. Lack of foresight in this country is awful.


  • #570
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Before the tunnel it used to be an at grade Roundabout.

    The flyover was the solution when the tunnel opened. Lack of foresight in this country is awful.
    I vaguely remember it pre tunnel, going to Youghal Via Glounthaune,Carrigtwohill,Midleton wasn't fun, especially on a bus.

    Definitely lack of foresight.

    The Tunnel opened in 1999, went through it 2 months later for the first time, sure we though it was great until the maintenance issues began.


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  • #571
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    It was truly awful before they signalised it circa 2005.


  • #572
    EnzoScifo
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭EnzoScifo


    Will probably come a point where a bridge will have to be built for one carriageway of the M40 and the tunnel converted into the other a la Dartford crossing.


  • #573
    kub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭kub


    I wonder, if there is a bridge built down there eventually will they just shut the tunnel down?

    Just consider, when it opened first nightly maintenance shut downs were scarce perhaps twice a year.

    I am noticing these shut downs are a lot more regular now, the reason seems to be very obvious especially when you are in the North bound bore at the lowest section, there is always wet patches down there, even when the roads leading to the tunnel are dry.


  • #574
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    kub wrote: »
    I wonder, if there is a bridge built down there eventually will they just shut the tunnel down?

    Just consider, when it opened first nightly maintenance shut downs were scarce perhaps twice a year.

    I am noticing these shut downs are a lot more regular now, the reason seems to be very obvious especially when you are in the North bound bore at the lowest section, there is always wet patches down there, even when the roads leading to the tunnel are dry.

    Bridge would need to be high enough to allow shipping underneath and would also need to feed traffic into the Dunkettle interchange.

    Is there enough space to do so. That would result in a very steep incline.


  • #575
    kub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭kub


    AugustusMinimus wrote:
    Bridge would need to be high enough to allow shipping underneath and would also need to feed traffic into the Dunkettle interchange.


    I wonder with the relocation of the container terminal in Tivoli down to Ringaskiddy will this mean that not only container ships but bulk ones may also go to Ringaskiddy and therefore would the high bridge be necessary.


  • #576
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The issue long term is that the area around Dunkettle has lots of constraints and building Ireland's biggest interchange on 5+ levels isn't feasible.

    There are a number of better solutions for when Dunkettle becomes saturated:

    1. North Ring Road - no brainer
    2. Link from M8/M40 junction at Glanmire to future N25 near Carrigtwohill/Middleton
    3. M48 outer orbital from Ballinhassig (M71) to Carrigaline (M28) with possible Cork Harbour viaduct
    4. Buses, trains, bikes


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  • #577
    Frostybrew
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 365 ✭✭Frostybrew


    marno21 wrote: »
    The issue long term is that the area around Dunkettle has lots of constraints and building Ireland's biggest interchange on 5+ levels isn't feasible.

    There are a number of better solutions for when Dunkettle becomes saturated:

    1. North Ring Road - no brainer
    2. Link from M8/M40 junction at Glanmire to future N25 near Carrigtwohill/Middleton
    3. M48 outer orbital from Ballinhassig (M71) to Carrigaline (M28) with possible Cork Harbour viaduct
    4. Buses, trains, bikes

    Options 1 and 4 are the way to go here. Once the NNR is complete and the Cork radial routes are upgraded to Motorway standard, funding should be concentrated on public transport. There's no need for an outer orbital route for a city the size of Cork, even one expanded to a size many multiples of it's present size.

    If we continue to experience traffic congestion post NRR completion then lack of investment in public transport will be the culprit and not a deficiency in our roads network.


  • #578
    Bacchus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    Frostybrew wrote: »
    Options 1 and 4 are the way to go here.

    Agreed. I'd also like option 2 though. Probably not a priority but it would be a great link to steer some traffic away from Dunkettle. I know I'd make good use of it :)


  • #579
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Bacchus wrote: »
    Agreed. I'd also like option 2 though. Probably not a priority but it would be a great link to steer some traffic away from Dunkettle. I know I'd make good use of it :)

    It would be possible to upgrade R626 or the Watergrasshill-Carrigtwohill road (Longstown hill). Personally - though I use these roads a lot - I hope it doesn't happen. The next things I want to see improved after the north ring road are the public and sustainable transport modes.
    It's crazy that we still see >90% single-occupant car usage in places like Little Island. I feel there's a lot of relatively cheap wins to be had.


  • #580
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    It was truly awful before they signalised it circa 2005.

    Yes I do recall using it for a brief period before it was signalised, a free for all is what it was.

    Even using the Kinsale Road Roundabout before the flyover was installed seems hard to believe looking back, as well as Bandon and Sarsfield Road Roundabouts.

    When is the N40 due to become the M40, is it after the completion of these works?


  • #581
    kub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭kub


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    Yes I do recall using it for a brief period before it was signalised, a free for all is what it was.

    Even using the Kinsale Road Roundabout before the flyover was installed seems hard to believe looking back, as well as Bandon and Sarsfield Road Roundabouts.

    When is the N40 due to become the M40, is it after the completion of these works?


    I thought the re-designation of the N40 to M40 was imminent, I think i read somewhere that funds were set aside for signage etc.


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  • #582
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    hans aus dtschl wrote: »
    It would be possible to upgrade R626 or the Watergrasshill-Carrigtwohill road (Longstown hill). Personally - though I use these roads a lot - I hope it doesn't happen. The next things I want to see improved after the north ring road are the public and sustainable transport modes.
    It's crazy that we still see >90% single-occupant car usage in places like Little Island. I feel there's a lot of relatively cheap wins to be had.

    When places like Little Island are built around the car, the result we have is what you get.

    Long term there will have to be some sort of thought put into pedestrian/cycle facilities around the JLT. The current Mahon -> Little Island route involves a tour of the city centre.
    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    Yes I do recall using it for a brief period before it was signalised, a free for all is what it was.

    Even using the Kinsale Road Roundabout before the flyover was installed seems hard to believe looking back, as well as Bandon and Sarsfield Road Roundabouts.

    When is the N40 due to become the M40, is it after the completion of these works?
    kub wrote: »
    I thought the re-designation of the N40 to M40 was imminent, I think i read somewhere that funds were set aside for signage etc.

    M40 redesignation should happen in the next few years. Consultants are working out the ins and outs of it at the minute.


  • #583
    kub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭kub


    marno21 wrote: »
    M40 redesignation should happen in the next few years. Consultants are working out the ins and outs of it at the minute.


    So there is a lot more than replacing N letters with M letters on the tarmac and replacing green signs with Blue ones ?


  • #584
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,918 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Will the M8 south of Glenmire become M40?


  • #585
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Will the M8 south of Glenmire become M40?

    Between the Dunkettle Roundabout and the current Junction 18?


  • #586
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Will the M8 south of Glenmire become M40?
    It will presumably when the North Ring will be built. M40 will be Ballincollig-Bishopstown-Togher-Kinsale Rd-Douglas-Mahon-Dunkettle-Glanmire-Blarney


  • #587
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    marno21 wrote: »
    It will presumably when the North Ring will be built. M40 will be Ballincollig-Bishopstown-Togher-Kinsale Rd-Douglas-Mahon-Dunkettle-Glanmire-Blarney

    Is it unreasonable to think of an M22-M40 link up into the future once the Macroom Bypass is built,it will only leave from Currahaly,Srelane,Lissarda remaining the same as it is now?


  • #588
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    Is it unreasonable to think of an M22-M40 link up into the future once the Macroom Bypass is built,it will only leave from Currahaly,Srelane,Lissarda remaining the same as it is now?
    Was indicated as a priority requirement to be built before 2008 in the 1998 Road Needs Study. Now won't be complete until 2035 at the earliest.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057586336


  • #589
    DerMutt
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭DerMutt


    The latest email update from the Dunkettle Interchange Project:
    • Archaeological Investigation Works are continuing at the Dunkettle Interchange site. To date, one fulacht fiadh has been uncovered. The initial sweep of the site will be completed this month and we expect that the fulacht fiadh site and any other archaeological sites uncovered will be fully resolved well in advance of Main Construction Works.
    • Detailed Ground Investigation Works will get underway in potential soft ground areas, at locations of proposed structures etc. during this month. The majority of these works will be offline but commuters will certainly notice the increased level of activity at the Dunkettle site.
    • The Main Construction Works will get underway early in 2019. In advance of that, we will be progressing works at the Silversprings Interchange on the N8, commencing early next month. These works will regularise both inbound and outbound lanes in the Interchange area. Details of traffic management measures proposed during the Construction Phase will be set out in future updates but these Improvement Works will be completed in advance of the Dunkettle Interchange Main Construction Phase.
    • Cork County Council are also advancing a scheme aimed at improving traffic flow in the general Little Island Interchange area. Tenders for the works required will be invited next month and again the intention is to complete these works in advance of the Dunkettle Interchange Main Construction Phase.


  • #590
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,918 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Surely this scheme could see the N25 redesignated to M25?

    No reason not to and also add 2 extra lanes each way.


  • #591
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Surely this scheme could see the N25 redesignated to M25?

    No reason not to and also add 2 extra lanes each way.
    The N25 goes all the way to Rosslare though, and I don't think that is in the pipeline in the next decade or even longer. The government TD David Stanton doesn't appear interested in it. Going east from Dunkettle needs an M25,better Bus services and also the Midleton to Youghal railway line reinstated if they really want to tackle traffic. The current N25 is bad, I can only imagine what life must have been like before it when the current road opened in or around 1991 was it? I only have very vague memories of travelling to Youghal by bus but didn't take much notice of the road network.


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  • #592
    Bacchus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    You could maybe get as far as Midleton with it being motorway but after that the N25 is single lane and passes through a couple of villages. You'd need to build a whole new motorway starting from the Carrigtwohill/Midleton all the way to... well however far you want a new motorway to go... Youghal... Dungarvan... Waterford...


  • #593
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    DerMutt wrote: »
    The latest email update from the Dunkettle Interchange Project:
    • Archaeological Investigation Works are continuing at the Dunkettle Interchange site. To date, one fulacht fiadh has been uncovered. The initial sweep of the site will be completed this month and we expect that the fulacht fiadh site and any other archaeological sites uncovered will be fully resolved well in advance of Main Construction Works.


    How on earth has a fulacht fiadh survived all of the tunnel build and all of the other activity over the years totally undiscovered :eek:


  • #594
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    A bronze age kitchen? Really?

    https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Bronze-Age-kitchen-found-at-Dunkettle-061e30a3-067c-4fbd-9139-4d6387bf5fed-ds


  • #595
    Bacchus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    What are the rules around such a find? Do they have to somehow preserve it? Do they just study it to the nth degree and then knock it down?


  • #596
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,551 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There's thousands of them so document and destroy is likely to be fine.


  • #597
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Works at the Silversprings Interchange on the N8

    What does this involve by the way? First I've heard of it.


  • #598
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    What does this involve by the way? First I've heard of it.

    Extended the DC to the flyover.

    At the moment the DC goes down to a single lane 100m before the sliproad. Makes no sense and cause congestion.


  • #599
    highwaymaniac
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭highwaymaniac


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    What does this involve by the way? First I've heard of it.

    Adding a formal second lane inbound at the pinchpoint by the tool hire place.


  • #600
    Truckermal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭Truckermal


    highwaymaniac wrote: »
    Adding a formal second lane inbound at the pinchpoint by the tool hire place.

    They really need to widen the slip road so two trucks can use it as opposed to one truck straddling it now!


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  • #601
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Oh that. Makes sense I suppose. There has been an unofficial second lane there for years during rush hour, with cars poking wheels onto the opposing lane. But its worked.


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