The health service in Ireland.

Archeron · 05-04-2008 12:52am #1

Over the past 6-7 years, my family has suffered incredibly due to the incompetence of the health service in Ireland and the effect it has had on our family and our lives.
We never really heard others speak of their similar experiences, because health was never really something that was discussed in the general arena, but the recent media exposures of people who have suffered greatly through misdiagnosis or incorrect treatment has shown that so many of us are at awful pain because of bad management or bad treatment. That is from hospital staff, cleaners, caterers, GP’s, the lot.

The recent protest in Dublin showed that a lot of people are suffering needlessly (considering the money being pumped in) and conversation with people generally shows that so many people have been touched by bad illness and poor treatment of it in the Irish health service.

Recent conversation on local radio about the new North East are hospital (Louth Meath radio) has people commenting on how the County of Louth (Drogheda in particular) deserves a new hospital more so than South Meath due to higher new population densities North of Navan, while people from places like Trim and Navan comment on the inefficiencies of Navan “hospital” and the service its providing. THEY need the new hospital more. Don’t we all?

Is it really at the point in health whereby neighbouring counties are finding themselves in competition to get the basic levels of healthcare that one of the richest countries in the world (ahem) should have?

Looking at the overcrowding of A&E all over the country, there is such terrible, painful problems. Be is waiting for beds in long term residential care, childrens dentistry, community nursing, or any of the hundreds of applicable areas, it seems that there is so much lacking, and so many people are hurting pointlessly without the care they deserve. So many of us can tell stories involving the health service that would break your heart.

At what point can the failings of a countries health service and the effect that has on the patients and their families actually begin to bring down the country itself?
I would imagine we are not far from that point. So many people are hurting and there is so little planned to alleviate that. Nurses are pissed off, families are pissed off, patients are dying, and doctors work 53 hours a day.
Where does this go from here?

Dudess · 05-04-2008 12:55am

Oh man it's a mess. The Health Information and Quality Authority was set up last year as a kind of watchdog/regulator. It's been doing reports on Rebecca O'Malley, Leas Cross etc. I went for a job in its press office and didn't get it - was kinda disappointed. Now I'm so glad. Just imagine the pressure, not to mention how depressing it could get...

I recently visited a friend in Cork University Hospital - good Christ. People on trolleys everywhere. Among them one really old woman with a huge bruise on her cheek (probably had a bad fall). I just felt sickened at the lack of dignity afforded her...

Trojan911 · 05-04-2008 1:13am

Huge Stupid Excuses ... It sucks big time.......... I'm doing a couple stories on negligent cases at the moment.

Archeron · 05-04-2008 1:15am

Where do we go though? There is so much pain in every imaginable way and so many of us are suffering. Its (IMO) the nastiest thing in this country.

WoollyRedHat · 05-04-2008 2:12am

Get that drumm guy out of the HSE for a start...

Miss Fluff · 05-04-2008 2:23am

Hopefully the gorgeous Mary will be given the push fairly shortly too. I think it's about to implode, can't see it continuing on this slippery slope for much longer.

Spyral · 05-04-2008 2:41am

bring back the nuns !! nothing went wrong when they ran the hospitals !

leninbenjamin · 05-04-2008 3:49am

far too many vested interests simply. that's your problem. everyone points the blame at someone else, and in the end nothing gets done.4

edit: Harney aint the problem. in fact, considering the current cabinet she's about as good as we can get. its just too easy to lump the blame on her, when in reality the failings are at basically every single level.

Senna · 05-04-2008 3:54am

Miss Fluff wrote: »

Hopefully the gorgeous Mary will be given the push fairly shortly too. I think it's about to implode, can't see it continuing on this slippery slope for much longer.

but who else wants to do the job, i'm guessing anyone smart enough wouldn't touch it with a 10foot barge pole. It's a disaster and it wont be fixed without major spending being put in first.
The first thing that would need to be done is cut down the number of administration staff, but of course their in good paying public jobs, so they cant be touched:rolleyes: Maybe if so much money wasn't being wasted on this, more money could be put into providing essential services.

tech77 · 05-04-2008 3:58am

leninbenjamin wrote: »

everyone points the blame at someone else, and in the end nothing gets done.

Never a truer word spoken i'd say.

Collie D · 05-04-2008 11:24am

Unfortunately I can't see anything changing in the near future. When it comes to Health money should be no object but we have recruitment freezes, towns being forced to go into competition with each other for facilities, budget cuts. It seems the HSE's main job is to save money rather than help people.

Dudess · 05-04-2008 11:37am

Trojan911 wrote: »

Huge Stupid Excuses ... It sucks big time.......... I'm doing a couple stories on negligent cases at the moment.

Good luck to you if you need to get someone from the HSE to talk. When I worked in radio, trying to get Brendan Drumm was akin to getting the pope.

holly1 · 05-04-2008 11:37am

I think the whole suitition is very FRIGHTING, I am so scared of me or any of my family having to go into hospital.If I have to go to hospital,I think the stress will kill me.

05-04-2008 11:54am

How can the HSE reform if people are going to object to everything.

When the proposal for specialist cancer services was accepted, that plank Enda Kenny was involved in a protest at the removal of cancer services in Castlebar. Castlebar is an hours drive from Galway, its not the other end of the earth.

And I don't think the situation in the North East is going get solved any time soon with people digging their heels.

WoollyRedHat · 05-04-2008 11:55am

leninbenjamin wrote: »

far too many vested interests simply. that's your problem. everyone points the blame at someone else, and in the end nothing gets done.4

edit: Harney aint the problem. in fact, considering the current cabinet she's about as good as we can get. its just too easy to lump the blame on her, when in reality the failings are at basically every single level.

The HSE was described as an adminstrative monster by the Irish Medical organisation, we have to begin somewhere and I think that assessment is very revealing.

Cool_CM · 05-04-2008 3:03pm

I love Germany and The Health Insurance Card, Gp Fees are a tenner per year quarter and hospital visits are free if you have the card(in my experience), Also I didn't have to pay for anti-biotics. I should be sick more often!

Diairist · 05-04-2008 4:09pm

Look at what Dudess mentiontioned re that Quality... Authority. It would be really depressing to list the extra quango's, semi semi state bodies and committees that were set up to take advantage of the Celtic Tige - sorry, to assist the HSE in delivering a health service. Leas Cross etc. why whinge about a report not being published? 2 bodies - Northern Area and Eastern area - got experts' reports. This was after a crowd called S S I had found the problem but it was the H S E itself that closed it. An then there's the consultants working for Madam Minister, those working for Mr Drumm, and those selling advice to the Department of Health. And the cost of ferrying patients daily from Mallow to Cork because the 2 radiologists chosen for Mallow cannot be employed in a new, empty unit in Mallow. No wonder they're on chairs in A & E's

Collie D · 05-04-2008 4:33pm

salonfire wrote: »

How can the HSE reform if people are going to object to everything.

When the proposal for specialist cancer services was accepted, that plank Enda Kenny was involved in a protest at the removal of cancer services in Castlebar. Castlebar is an hours drive from Galway, its not the other end of the earth.

And I don't think the situation in the North East is going get solved any time soon with people digging their heels.

So you think people should just put up with this third world health service...and no I'm not sensationalising, visit any A&E in the country and see what I mean.

EamonnKeane · 05-04-2008 6:44pm

Senna wrote: »

but who else wants to do the job, i'm guessing anyone smart enough wouldn't touch it with a 10foot barge pole.

Bev Flynn might take it on ... it's a plan so crazy it just might work!

Dudess · 05-04-2008 7:43pm

Spyral wrote: »

bring back the nuns !! nothing went wrong when they ran the hospitals !

My mum who's a nurse always says that - and she's by no means a god-botherer. For one, the standard of cleanliness was absolutely off the chart back when she was training/working in hospitals (60s/early 70s). It was exceptionally strict but things got run more smoothly. If anyone's read Atonement (or seen the film) well you know how absolutely regimented the hospital is where the girl is training... my mother says that's exactly what life was like for her as a student nurse - even if it was 20 odd years later.

galwayrush · 05-04-2008 11:45pm

My Wife has been seriously ill for many years now. sometimes we can get treatment on the Public Health system, but other times, because of the seriousness of her illness we have to go private, because sometimes she needs the treatment a.s.a.p., and the public system would delay life saving treatment for months. We can't get insurance so as far as i'm concerned, out health system is a ****ing farce, out pathetic goverment has poured countless millions into it and actually managed to make it worse. Celtic Tiger my arse, it's a ****ing joke. I really want to say more, but thinking about it, and after experiencing it ,i better sign off so i can calm down.:mad:

Dudess · 05-04-2008 11:50pm

That's awful. Sorry to hear about your wife, galwayrush.

galwayrush · 05-04-2008 11:56pm

Dudess wrote: »

That's awful. Sorry to hear about your wife, galwayrush.

Thank you.:)
Sorry about the rant, i have to add that the people on the front line are excellent and i can;'t praise them highly enough.:cool:

Sherifu · 06-04-2008 12:01am

Hmm, where to start with the Health System in Ireland. My experiences with it have been few thankfully. My girlfriend was on holiday in Ireland last year and picked up a flu. As a complication she got an abscess in her throat which the antibiotics couldn't get to. As a result we were sent to the hospital by the GP. After the initial exam she was left waiting in the bed for 3 hours, another hour on a trolley and finally she was seen by the ENT specialist. It was by no means a hardship and she recovered fairly quickly after it but I remember thinking if it takes this long for a routine procedure, people that have serious problems must be going through hell.
My own opinion on it is the health system has gotten lost in bureaucracy and bean counting. A lot of paper pushers employed and not enough nurses and doctors. One other thing, there is still a cap as far as i'm aware on the number of Irish doctors trained every year. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can inform me as to why this is.

randylonghorn · 06-04-2008 12:14am

While I wouldn't be a fan of Harneys by any stretch of the imagination, the reality is that the Health portfolio has always been seen as a poisoned chalice, and many ministers have been landed there when they were seen as being too popular / a threat to the Taoiseach of the day (M. Martin probably the most recent example, and boy did it tarnish his shine!)

It's almost impossible for any Minister to solve the mess, because most of the steps necessay would be unpopular either politically (e.g. ref. Kenny canvassing in Castlebar, to protect his local vote, even tho' he had to know there was a lot of logic to the policy), or will stand on the toes of big, powerful unions.

And yes, it is a huge pity hospitals were ever taken out of the hands of the nuns. Not a great fan of the institutional church either, but whatever validity there might be in the arguments why hospitals should be in public hands, the reality is that public hands aren't half as good at running them!

Steve · 06-04-2008 12:27am

leninbenjamin wrote: »

edit: Harney aint the problem. in fact, considering the current cabinet she's about as good as we can get. its just too easy to lump the blame on her, when in reality the failings are at basically every single level.

I have to disagree.

As far as the health system goes - she is responsible. End of. She has the power to change what's wrong yet lacks the intelligence to to so.

It sickens me every time I hear 98FM start their yearly campaign to give a better quality of life to terminally ill children that the state can't afford while MH jets off to the superbowl at our expense:mad:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 06-04-2008 12:46am

Where are all the people who voted 'yes' in the 'are you sad to see Bertie go?' poll?

Collie D · 06-04-2008 12:51am

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Where are all the people who voted 'no' in the 'are you sad to see Bertie go?' poll?

I didn't see that poll but I would include myself as one....why?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 06-04-2008 1:00am

Collie D wrote: »

I didn't see that poll but I would include myself as one....why?

After eleven "friutful" years, they seemed to think that everything under his leadership was hunky dory.

randylonghorn · 06-04-2008 1:04am

Wouldn't that be those who voted "yes" ... as in they WERE sad to see him go?

Sherifu · 06-04-2008 1:06am

randylonghorn wrote: »

Wouldn't that be those who voted "yes" ... as in they WERE sad to see him go?

That had me confused. Should be yes.

sickpuppy · 06-04-2008 1:23am

My only experience of health service in ireland lately was with my friends father.
He went into hospital for a small routine gall bladder operation and he never came out.
Of course any operation when you are in your 60s is not small.
He got an infection and needed another operation and twice he was supposed to go down to galway city for the operation but there were not enough intensive care beds.The man worked for 50 years payed his taxes and instead of getting a chance to fix his ailment he ended up dying.
I would hate to see my own parents needing urgent medical care or anyones for that matter.
Can you imagine how heartbreaking it must be for familys knowing there siblings need care operations etc oh sorry we have no beds ffs,if hes alive next week we might squeeze him in its horrible.
Somebody must be held accountable i hope i never need the sevices of the hse in ireland.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 06-04-2008 1:24am

Apologies, post edited (although it's gonna really confuse people now)

Sherifu · 06-04-2008 1:33am

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Apologies, post edited (although it's gonna really confuse people now)

Great, now change the edit comment to "because I was wrong".

Dudess · 06-04-2008 1:36am

You can't edit an edit comment though. That'd be like reporting a post on the Reported Posts forum - it would cause a paradox and the universe would capsize in on itself...

Diairist · 06-04-2008 1:39am

one of my (numerous) rants re healthcare in Ireland: if 458 died on Irish roads 1999 (down on previous yr....) 336 in 2007 - and my heart goes out to the family and friends of those hundreds of people - how many organs were donated? Like the 2 Polish lads in Drimnagh did. (remember the screwdriver incident?)

Is it true to say - I may well be wrong - that the lung transplant unit in the Mater lay idle for 3 years after the staff had ben trained and the equipment installed?

Chunky Monkey · 06-04-2008 1:43am

Dudess wrote: »

My mum who's a nurse always says that - and she's by no means a god-botherer. For one, the standard of cleanliness was absolutely off the chart back when she was training/working in hospitals (60s/early 70s). It was exceptionally strict but things got run more smoothly. If anyone's read Atonement (or seen the film) well you know how absolutely regimented the hospital is where the girl is training... my mother says that's exactly what life was like for her as a student nurse - even if it was 20 odd years later.

And student nurses were left to run the wards because there weren't enough senior nurses around. Hardly a positive point for the 'good old days'.

The sickly smell of disinfectant, that I've heard many people mention, does not a clean ward make. What proof is there that hospitals were cleaner, no reported cases of MRSA, which is a multi resistant bug? Also cleaning is not a nurse's job. They're far too qualified for that. But I've yet to see a cleaner who doesn't do their job properly.

What's needed are plenty of single rooms and equipment in order to isolate infections and stomp them out. However this requires proper spending of resources. So rather than giving out about frontline staff, the hotshots in the Mercs with the 3/4 holidays a year are the ones to be angry at (this is pointed at the OP who seemed to be giving out about 'hospital staff').

Sherifu · 06-04-2008 1:48am

Dudess wrote: »

You can't edit an edit comment though. That'd be like reporting a post on the Reported Posts forum - it would cause a paradox and the universe would capsize in on itself...

I said change the edit comment. I chose my words carefully :pac:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 06-04-2008 1:51am

Dudess wrote: »

You can't edit an edit comment though. That'd be like reporting a post on the Reported Posts forum - it would cause a paradox and the universe would capsize in on itself...

****.... I just did it. The world's going to end and it's my fault. Hmmm - my Irish teacher was right, so.

randylonghorn · 06-04-2008 2:02am

Dudess wrote: »

You can't edit an edit comment though. That'd be like reporting a post on the Reported Posts forum - it would cause a paradox and the universe would capsize in on itself...

... or someone reporting a post on his own forum!!

cough Tom Dunne cough

TheBeach · 06-04-2008 3:07am

sickpuppy wrote: »

My only experience of health service in ireland lately was with my friends father.
He went into hospital for a small routine gall bladder operation and he never came out.
Of course any operation when you are in your 60s is not small.
He got an infection and needed another operation and twice he was supposed to go down to galway city for the operation but there were not enough intensive care beds.The man worked for 50 years payed his taxes and instead of getting a chance to fix his ailment he ended up dying.
I would hate to see my own parents needing urgent medical care or anyones for that matter.
Can you imagine how heartbreaking it must be for familys knowing there siblings need care operations etc oh sorry we have no beds ffs,if hes alive next week we might squeeze him in its horrible.
Somebody must be held accountable i hope i never need the sevices of the hse in ireland.

That says it all, it's so sad. You'd think that a 60yr old man would be ok, but due to our health service it's not so.

DublinDilbert · 06-04-2008 10:38am

I agree the state of the hospitals is very bad... but the bigger problem in my opinion is access to Doctors, they are all based round middle class area's where people can afford to pay them.... People don't go to the doctor cause they can't afford it, they get sicker and sicker then they end up blocking A&E...

What do we pay PRSI for if we can't go to a doctor?

What do we pay health insurance for if we can't go to a doctor?

Up north its FREE to go see a doctor when your sick, god imagine that? Doctors up north earn a reasonable living, approx £70K from what i've been told. Doctors down here would turn their nose up at that, cause they know how much they can cream down here...

One of the very serious side effects to having to pay for visiting the doctor is they over prescribe drugs massively... In a place where its free to go do the doctor, he'll say "i won't give you antibiotics now, but if your still unwell come back in a few days and i'll write it up then...", but in Ireland they just write it up on the spot as people aren't going to pay €60 in 2 days time to get the same prescription.

It wouldn't even be as bad if they charged for a course of treatment, but no its visit by visit, they are completely creaming it in.

Rossibaby · 06-04-2008 11:03am

dublin dilbert i totally agree, profit should not be the concern when it comes to people's health!people before profit makes sense,especially in a nation such as ireland that isnt really short of the cash yet doesnt seem to care for its people.the health care system should be socialised imo, i mean its one thing a middle class or upper class family going to the local doctor and foring out the cash,but for a woring class person,single mother with a few ids etc its not so simple.just say a single woring class mother with 3 kids finds her child has an illness,this spreads to the other two and now she has 3 children very sick.she goes to the local doctor and gets the 3 ids seen to at once,this of coure costs more than a single visit in most places even though its obviously the same illness.the lady pays for this,then has to pay for the anti - biotics for her children.very expensive,and all this on a wor day she had to take off to bring them to the doctor.that is no way for a person to live.i've seen a guy wh cut his hand with a saw really badly in A and E ahead of me,and only had it bandaged by himself quite badly.he of course had to wait 4 long hours with the rest of us fo 10 minutes of the doctors time:mad:
why people support the current government i'll never know.imo this is the most important thing in a country

Trojan911 · 07-04-2008 12:25am

Dudess wrote: »

Good luck to you if you need to get someone from the HSE to talk. When I worked in radio, trying to get Brendan Drumm was akin to getting the pope.

Unfortunately, they are like robots..... "Sorry, no comment"

invincibleirish · 07-04-2008 2:21am

Greedy Consultant's
Greedy Pharmacist's
Incompetent & greedy Bureaucrat's
Abysmal me feiner Politicians
prioritising of Private Healthcare

Sort that and you will improve the health service.

in the past 2 weeks, twice an immediate much loved family member had the pleasure of spending 2 nights on a trolley, i had the joy of spending hours in the A&E witnessing my close relative in terrible pain (30 hrs the first time, 30 hours the second time), want to know what made it extra fun? no painkillers could be precribed as the "team" in charge of her could not be contacted as to decide what to prescribe so the on call guy just prescribed solpadine(spelling?) for a women bent over double in pain.

want to know what the kicker is? this was on a Thursday at 5pm, the previous day at 3pm, my loved one had been discharged with a huge prescription (90 euro there), the "team" in charge deemed her fit enough to be discharged despite not knowing what was wrong with her! this was 2 weeks ago and she is still in hospital now!(and for foreseeable future)

So nevermind the 90 euro prescription, the 60 euro doctor charge, the approx 80 euro so far i have paid in parking charges at the hospital so far, i took my loved ones mail to her in hospital over the weekend, whats this? a 600 euro bill from the HSE for her stay, despite the fact they ****ed up!

this has all played out over the past few weeks against the Bertie drama, well **** him, he has had 11 years in power and this is the health service? **** him and **** anyone who defends him.you are wrong.

and whats this? his replacement is a former Health Minister whose most notable contribution whilst in charge of the Department of Health was calling it "Angola"? thats it? thats the best man for the job?

this post is rather long winded, but guess what? i havent had much experience of A&E prior to this, but just to remind you,i've been reading the newspapers, listening to radio etc. for the last few years before my own personal drama,we all hear about how **** the Health services are but usually its just another issue, like traffic, tax etc., but when you have had the experience i have had, you get angry. its happened to me and it might just well happen to you.

galah · 07-04-2008 11:45am

got plenty of experience with the 'Health' system, and I get angrier and angrier the more I think about it.
It's a bloody joke in this country - hours on end on a trolley just to be seen by a doctor? Wards closed because they don't have enough staff? Minister and other 'responsible' people playing 'responsibility ping pong' at the expense of patients - it's all a farce, and I'm truly sick of it. And I'm not even starting to mention hygiene.

Why can't they cut down on admin staff, streamline the processes, make people actually responsible, with the ultimate responsibility held by the health minister, employ more frontline staff with the money saved, and cut all the crap?

maybe even raise health insurance payments a little so they can lower GPs fees - I'd rather pay a little more health insurance and then pay less or nothing at all to see a GP than the other way round.

Also, have GPs equipped with additional equipment (e.g. Xray machines, etc) and make sure GPs are more confident about their diagnoses - at the moment, if a GP is not sure, they'll send patients to A&E - which clogs up the system and is usually not necessary (seriously, the amount of times I was told to 'take a paracetamol and if it gets worse go to A&E' is unreal). Also, more A&E departments would be a good idea - UCHG is an absolute disaster, and the town could do with another A&E department, say in the Galway Clinic or even Merlin Park.

/rant over

The health service in Ireland.

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