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1st time owner with stupid question

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  • 23-09-2013 7:42pm
    #1
    Richygills
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭


    Ok as in my other posts iv invested in a motorhome. My question for ye all is. Will a normal flatscreen tv work in the vehicle. It has all the plug sockets and so and i can plug the vehicle into the mains or use the onboard generator or while moving the leisure batteries but can someone fill me in on the voltage and amps an all that to make sure im running proper power for it. reading this back i am making it sound very complicated but im sure someone here can figure out what im trying to say. Also when i plug the vehicle into the mains everything works fine there is a switch under the rear seats that says line or gen (generator) but when not plugged in and no genny on only ceiling lights work but not plug sockets. maybe im missing a switch somewhere but can someone shine some light on this for me i wasthinking when im not into mains the leisure batteries should run everthing. Just to let ye know its a 1995 ford e350 winnebago 6 berth.


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    #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Richygills wrote: »
    Will a normal flatscreen tv work in the vehicle.

    That depends on the tv and the inverter. A modulated square wave inverter usually destroys contemporary flat screens, but will run older LCD types no problem.
    A pure sine wave inverter will run any mains tv.
    I'd stick with a 12volt tv (unless the tv was free :D) because that's easier and more efficient to run on batteries and mains than a mains tv is to run on batteries.
    12v tv will require a regulator if it isn't built in to work on batteries and a transformer if that isn't built in to work on mains.
    a 230v tv will require an inverter to work on batteries and will plug and play on mains.
    Due to the inverter power conversion inefficiency (20% loss) I try to avoid using it at all times...for me it's just a back up and for guests.

    You may also want to consider one with a wide viewing angle ( >150°) as you can't easily pull your chair back in a camper

    Richygills wrote: »
    ... there is a switch under the rear seats that says line or gen (generator) but when not plugged in and no genny on only ceiling lights work but not plug sockets.

    This is normal, unless you have specifically assigned inverter sockets and your inverter is running then you can't have mains without mains connected.
    I have separate mains, inverter, 12v (unregulated), 9v and 5v sockets and a few adjustable regulators thrown in just in case.
    Richygills wrote: »
    i wasthinking when im not into mains the leisure batteries should run everthing.

    The leisure battery will only run the 12 volt appliances and whatever is connected to the inverter while the inverter is on.


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    #3
    rccaulfield
    Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭rccaulfield


    check back of tv for the wattage, should be on a sticker on it- then buy an inverter thats a few hundred watts higher then this is my advice, better again plan ahead and think whats the max wattage you will use-overnight heater etc?


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    #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Overspec-ed inverters are a waste of battery power especially if power leaves your inverter to go straight into a transformer. This juxtaposition of electrons will cost you more to run than the tv itself consumes.
    It's much better spec. the inverter to within greater than a few 10's of watts than you need and then get a second inverter for a larger load. The self consumption of an inverter increases with it's capacity. So better a tv + sound + dvd etc. inverter, then a separate power tool inverter or somesuch...the price difference isn't that significant.
    Unless you buy an expensive pure sine wave inverter you're taking your chances you don't let the magic smoke out of your electronics. You should always do your research before plugging into a modulated sine wave inverter.

    If you want a dual power tv be prepared to pay extra because they're targeted at a niche market and they're much the same as the rest just marketed better.
    eg.
    http://www.avtex.co.uk/tv/avtex-w164tr.html
    or
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Freeview-Record-Caravan-12/dp/B003VPJZ48/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A1IS5ZIQB8SE82#productDescription

    The cheapest option is to shop around and look for a normal low energy "mains" tv, and examine the transformer (the little power supply blocky plug thing) if this says 12v then it's semi-compatible. Get an amperor or similar regulator and it's wholly compatible.
    http://www.amperor.com/products/air_auto_brick/index.html
    Then you can switch between 12vDC or 230AC by swapping leads, or if you want to be really devious I reckon you could hard wire it to self-select with a 7 pin changeover relay with the signal live coming from the transformer positive.


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    #5
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    I think I've read that some standard Walker TV's are 12v (run through a 12v transformer on mains) - might be worth a google, or a search on motorhome craic and the likes.


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    #6
    niloc1951
    Registered Users Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    When buying off the net (Amazon etc) be sure it has MPEG4 decoding capability. Most TV's for the UK market only have MPEG2 which will not decode Saorview, but are OK if you only want to watch satellite TV.

    Those with a low voltage (12 volt) external transformer can be directly connected to the 12 volt system BUT connecting them direct can shorten their lives as they may not like the variation 11v > 14v usually found in motorhome systems, the difference between a battery going down and when the charger is working.

    The safest way is to get a 12v/12v power supply unit which has a stabilised output like the Amperor unit or use a small inverter and use the supplied mains transformer, a 75 watt inverter would more than cover the requirements of a modern LED TV and a Sky Box.

    If the option is to use an inverter it opens up the possibility of buying a hard wired main unit LIKE THIS which is only 25 watts according to the Argos site but is actually rated as only 18 watts on the set itself which is better again and it has one of the best viewing angles at 178/178 degrees.


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    #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I've been looking at both systems and on paper a modulated inverter is coming out ahead.
    The 12volt regulator (comparing amperor) I estimate will out perform a modulated inverter by a ~0.5A < 1.0A saving depending on the transformer efficiency on the tv power supply.
    Making 12volt regulated work, the net cost in components are more than an inverter, sufficient to buy a serious share of a second deep cycle battery.

    I can't find a pure sine wave inverter less than 300watts to compare.
    300watt + pure sine wave inverters sway favour to 12volt regulation.

    This is based on DC cable runs of 5m run on 4mmᴓ cable
    If you use 2.5mmᴓ cable or less over the same distance the inverter wins.


    If you want to risk a modulated inverter get a tv with a warranty and don't tell them anything about your antics if you fry it. Just say it died. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    Self selecting regulation with an 8 pin relay, DPDT (double pole double throw):

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFYaIXsRnslUPSUjCkNjf40Cs5E9uZJYXAo2UZIOoqKpy3FCZSBA

    Self selecting regulation.JPG


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    #8
    Martin_D
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭Martin_D


    now folks - can ye give the ladybird version for the non techies - the specific best TV for a MH that sometimes runs on mains (4,6,10 .. A) and occasionally off leisure battery. The detail so far is interesting but really most of us just want to get a TV based on the two basic contexts - mains sometimes and battery option off grid. - Not interested in replies that say "Its not as simple as that ...." :)


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    #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRVyhj3WJsIvqya6FJA8hFLn0VepeanIrR7P2acrYBkcAnODkv3Tw

    Cheap and cheerful 12volt tv link

    Regulated DC power lead (listed as optional extra on Satellitetv...fiver says theirs is unregulated "Output: same as input :rolleyes:")


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    #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84405288


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    #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Richygills wrote: »
    My question for ye all is. Will a normal flatscreen tv work in the vehicle.
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSB6Fe9E_b5TpV09K-5RVA-8pLdPEDVtu4s3o4lP8f5i2shOTvA

    Yes, with one of these or similar.

    150watt pure sine wave inverter

    Maplins less efficient option


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    #12
    niloc1951
    Registered Users Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    Martin_D wrote: »
    now folks - can ye give the ladybird version for the non techies - the specific best TV for a MH that sometimes runs on mains (4,6,10 .. A) and occasionally off leisure battery. The detail so far is interesting but really most of us just want to get a TV based on the two basic contexts - mains sometimes and battery option off grid. - Not interested in replies that say "Its not as simple as that ...." :)

    Simple, here it is.

    First question to answer is.............. do you want Saorview

    If yes, normally anything for the UK market will not work.
    If no (you will be using it for satellite only) UK stuff will be ok.

    Next, Viewing angle is very important for use in the confines of a motorhome where the set will be viewed from different seating positions and the mounting place could be high up ............... any thing less than 170° horizontal by 170° vertical will produce a poor picture unless the viewer is seated more or less directly in front of the screen.

    Power, the lower the watts it needs the better for your battery, modern 19" LED sets take a little as 18 watts.
    Unless the set is designed for the leisure market it will not be vehicle 12 volt compatible ......................... though if it has an external mains transformer which plugs into the mains and outputs 12 volt it can be used with a direct 12 volt supply but the variations in a vehicle system (11v > 14v) can damage the set.

    When off grid the cheapest way to power a set designed to run from a mains supply is to use an inverter. Modified sine are perfectly acceptable and a lot cheaper than pure sine. Apart from being cheaper modified sine wave units have a higher efficiency than pure sine wave inits.

    To summarise, something like this powered by something like this when off grid will be perfectly satisfactory for a modest budget.


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    #13
    Martin_D
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭Martin_D


    Thanks to Sir Liamalot and niloc1951 - and the ladybird. Plenty clear now - those 3 last posts should be the reference posts for future queries about TV for campers.


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    #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I use a mod. wave inverter and an LCD. Works fine.
    I don't recommend them though because of the maybe factor.

    This thread makes good arguments for both sides.


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    #15
    HymerSwingG
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭HymerSwingG


    Hi all,
    I have purchased a 22" Cello TV from Powercity and have it connected to a Vision plus Antennas on the roof of the vehicle.

    I am constantly getting 'No DTV signal' on the TV. Tried the TV when in Castleblaney (at the guy who was doing the installing) and it picked up the TV channels no problem. Tried it when I got home (Ashbourne) No signal. Tried it again when in Raheny in Dublin - no signal and again when in Roundwood over the weekend - No DTV Signal again.

    Any ideas as to what the issue might be? I did try to do a manual and auto search for new channels in each area - still no joy.

    Any ideas or suggestions to help would be most appreciated.
    Cheers,
    Gerry


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    #16
    moodrater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭moodrater


    Was it irish channels it picked up in castleblaney or uk?


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    #17
    HymerSwingG
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭HymerSwingG


    It was irish channels - RTE 1, RTE +1, RTE Jr. etc. I have since (writing the post below) been on to helpdesk at Powercity (brilliant BTW, just logged a call on their website and they rang me within minutes!) and he directed me to the Saorview website where you can enter your location and pull the site, channel, polarisation settings, direction and Distance detail to the closest antennae to me.

    In doing so - I was able to switch the settings on the TV (which was still looking at Castleblaney) and instead look for Kippure in Wicklow. I then picked up RTE 1, RTE +1 and RTE Jnr. Nothing else would come in. but it helped me understand that it was not a technical problem, but rather simple signal strength and direction from where the MH was.

    Next question now though, is there a booster I can buy to add to my visionplus arial that will allow me to boost the signal and help me get more channels? ideas anyone?


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    #18
    *Kol*
    Registered Users Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭*Kol*


    HymerSwingG wrote: »
    It was irish channels - RTE 1, RTE +1, RTE Jr. etc. I have since (writing the post below) been on to helpdesk at Powercity (brilliant BTW, just logged a call on their website and they rang me within minutes!) and he directed me to the Saorview website where you can enter your location and pull the site, channel, polarisation settings, direction and Distance detail to the closest antennae to me.

    In doing so - I was able to switch the settings on the TV (which was still looking at Castleblaney) and instead look for Kippure in Wicklow. I then picked up RTE 1, RTE +1 and RTE Jnr. Nothing else would come in. but it helped me understand that it was not a technical problem, but rather simple signal strength and direction from where the MH was.

    Next question now though, is there a booster I can buy to add to my visionplus arial that will allow me to boost the signal and help me get more channels? ideas anyone?

    Would you consider getting a satellite dish and free view box? They work very well and you get far more channels. You can also use a skybox with them and it works great.


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    #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I haven't had a tv since 2001. The only channel that had was XBox. I've just got 4TB of hard disk storage 75% full of crap I'll never watch and internet.


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    #20
    HymerSwingG
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭HymerSwingG


    Hiya KOL,
    There is actually a Kathrein system in the motorhome from the previous owner (Planer ariel on the roof - Katrein Mobisat) and inside the wardrobe there is a power unit for the dish and a DVBs box which I believe to be a decoder. Problem is that apparently the single 12V leisure battery I have in the camper isn't powerful enough to lift the dish (its supposed to be servo assisted). Although there is wiring for the dish and decoder which goes down to through the camper to the leisure battery and it was disconnected, the fuse was removed from the power unit too. I haven't been able to find anyone who knows about these Katrein systems to be able to help me to get it working. Would really much rather get it working (if its any good - don't know) than fork out for a new system. Spent a lot of money buying the camper so conscious of how much more I would want to spend if you know what I mean :)


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