Life after Ag.Science...

simbathelion · 24-06-2010 8:41pm

Att: Rainbowtrout,

As an Agricultural Science teacher, did you think the paper was ok, There's about 10 in my class and not one single person in our class was a bit happy with the paper. I was wondering would you think the current Agricultural teachers need to be updated a bit more, although you personally seem great, feck I wish you were our teacher, you seem to have unbelievable patience, you daily listen to our questions and have no problem directing us in the right way, Jez wish it was you who set todays paper.

rainbowtrout · 25-06-2010 12:22am

simbathelion wrote: »

Att: Rainbowtrout,

As an Agricultural Science teacher, did you think the paper was ok, There's about 10 in my class and not one single person in our class was a bit happy with the paper. I was wondering would you think the current Agricultural teachers need to be updated a bit more, although you personally seem great, feck I wish you were our teacher, you seem to have unbelievable patience, you daily listen to our questions and have no problem directing us in the right way, Jez wish it was you who set todays paper.

I thought some of the questions were ok, Soil and the experiments were fair. There are sticky questions every year on the paper, but normally they tend to be confined to one question, but this year seemed to be spread throughout making it hard for a student to get a full six questions (particularly for those going for an A1). I doubt many students will be happy with that paper to be honest. I spoke to one or two other ag teachers this evening and they weren't happy with it.

The course and syllabus as we all know is terribly outdated. However even though the syllabus is outdated that is what should be examined and there seems to be a tendency in ag science to just lash in a question regardless of this. I have never used the term indicator species or seen it anywhere and while the question itself from my interpretation of it was not difficult, I know it would throw a lot of students off.

There are always hard questions on HL LC papers to separate out the top students from the rest and that's the way it should be, but putting on topics that students have never heard of is not fair and it just suggests there are no clear boundaries to the syllabus.

I will have to go away at some stage and do out notes/definitions on indicator species, freemartin condition, index of calving difficulty to add to my notes that I already give out.

As for your comment on Ag teachers needing to be updated. Personally I know a lot of the Ag teachers, we are a small group. There are plenty of excellent, knowledgeable people out there, but if the goalposts are being constantly moved in what is being asked on the paper every year, how can a teacher possibly keep up when the first time they see something on the course is when it appears on the paper? Obviously that isn't much help to the students, but it was the same last year in the genetics question, it asked for a definition of a lethal gene : it's not in any book and not part of the course. It was raised in an earlier post that if this happened in any other subject, there would be war over the paper but in ag there just seems to be ... apathy I guess... and that information gets absorbed into the syllabus and that's not the way it should happen.

rainbowtrout · 25-06-2010 12:27am

randylonghorn wrote: »

S & S is t'other way! >_>

My raddle comes with a whip! :pac:

randylonghorn wrote: »

Rainbow's comment here:
about the interchangeability with which certain terms tend to be used reminded me of the comment we got from the same lad after a night out when he had left us at the end of the night to, eh, drive a young lady home.

Ofc, next morning, nosey buggers that we were, we demanded to know how things had progressed, to which we received the classic reply:

"Ah, sure, she wasn't on for breeding, but she's a dab hand at the milking!"

>_>

I'll go now!

Classic!

rainbowtrout · 25-06-2010 12:45am

Thought you guys might appreciate this, it's a blog by an Ag Science teacher. I know this guy from college and would respect his opinion. Also if any of you have ever used the notes from farmnet you will be familiar with his work. I think he does a pretty good summary and will perhaps let you see that frustration is widespread

http://blog.sccscience.com/2010/06/exam-reaction-agricultural-science.html

Yahooaccount · 25-06-2010 12:16pm

I looked at the paper and thought it was an utter disgrace, considering some of the questions took me a hard time to even find on the internet!

I e-mailed the SEC to complain using this e-mail : examiners@examinations.ie .

user12 · 25-06-2010 1:23pm

Rainbowtrout....can you please help me with the question

I know you can answer this question without looking at my exam but I am really stressing about it!!

I did an OK project,sheep project was good but the silage wasnt it was only a few pages,if you were to take a guess how many marks do you think I would of got for my project?..I had all my experiments and stuff....just a guess thanks!

And this is for everyone out there am sure!...I DID A HORRIBLE PAPER!!...I was never anygood an Ag Science but this was a step too far!!...I attempted every question, purely talking ****e the hole way through it,i knew nothin at all!!!...but i wrote a good bit of common sense.....so with my project and an exam that i did really bad in,what do you reckon my chances of passin are?...I understand you havnt a clue without looking!

Will the paper be marked easier do you think?..but even if they change the marking sceme, I dont think I got anythin right so how can they give me marks for a wrong answer!!:(:(:(:(

rainbowtrout · 25-06-2010 1:59pm

user12 wrote: »

Rainbowtrout....can you please help me with the question

I know you can answer this question without looking at my exam but I am really stressing about it!!

I did an OK project,sheep project was good but the silage wasnt it was only a few pages,if you were to take a guess how many marks do you think I would of got for my project?..I had all my experiments and stuff....just a guess thanks!

And this is for everyone out there am sure!...I DID A HORRIBLE PAPER!!...I was never anygood an Ag Science but this was a step too far!!...I attempted every question, purely talking ****e the hole way through it,i knew nothin at all!!!...but i wrote a good bit of common sense.....so with my project and an exam that i did really bad in,what do you reckon my chances of passin are?...I understand you havnt a clue without looking!

Will the paper be marked easier do you think?..but even if they change the marking sceme, I dont think I got anythin right so how can they give me marks for a wrong answer!!:(:(:(:(

To be honest I can't answer that. You're asking me to grade a project without ever seeing it or meeting you. And I have no idea of your ability. But if you want a little perspective on it, two thirds of students doing ag science get an A or a B in the project, so unless you've made a total balls of it you've probably done fine. Remember you'd probably get at least half marks for having each part of the project written up so you can only go up from there.

Most people's projects give them enough with the paper to pass the exam. I have seen plenty of people get an E in the paper over the years but pass over all because they have done a good project.

I don't know what way the paper is going to be marked until we see how the answering of the paper pans out. You probably got more right than you imagine. It only takes a couple of sticky questions on a paper for a student to come out of it with a bad feeling. If I had been a student yesterday and had seen indicator species as the first question and then go on to maize silage etc etc, I would have felt pretty crap doing the exam, because everyone answers question 1 so if you feel you got off to a good start it probably sets your mood for the rest of the exam, and vice versa if it was a tough question like yesterday.

If you answered every question, then all of them will be marked and you will get your best six. You have given yourself the best chance of doing well. Don't focus on the stuff that you didn't know, focus on the stuff that you didn know. Or rather forget about it, there's nothing you can do now and relax until the results come out in August.

user12 · 25-06-2010 2:06pm

Yes I know I understand
For the project,how much is the silage project of it?...The rest of my project was perfect just the silage let me down!

Do you get any attempt marks in Ag Science?

rainbowtrout · 25-06-2010 2:09pm

user12 wrote: »

Yes I know I understand
For the project,how much is the silage project of it?...The rest of my project was perfect just the silage let me down!

Do you get any attempt marks in Ag Science?

Well in the project there are 15 marks for two crops... silage-grass and/or a cereal and/or a root crop. Two of the three.

Attempt marks is not like maths. But questions will be split into sections, eg a lot of the questions yesterday asked for four reason for whatever.... assuming 16 marks for that question they would probably be given 4 each, so if you get two of the four correct answers you would get 8 marks.

user12 · 25-06-2010 2:13pm

So basically the silage and grass project is only worth 15% of the over project mark?

What percentage fail Ag Science do you think?

rainbowtrout · 25-06-2010 2:21pm

user12 wrote: »

So basically the silage and grass project is only worth 15% of the over project mark?

What percentage fail Ag Science do you think?

Dunno off the top of my head, the stats will be on examinations.ie or education.ie

Fete · 25-06-2010 3:46pm

Question 1 was horrible I agree. The rest was very random but I didn't think it too bad (though I admit the cow question didn't seem to make much sense).
I only knew things like polyploidy etc thanks to biology.
I'm hoping for a B anyway.

Humphrey.Jones · 25-06-2010 4:02pm

Hi everyone. I would just like to point out that, as a teacher, I am also appalled by yesterday's higher level exam. I have written about it on the Frog Blog (www.frogblog.ie) and I have also written to the chief examiner for agricultural science, Ged McGuire, about how poorly this exam reflected the syllabus. It is both unfair to pupils and teachers alike. See www.frogblog.ie for more.

repeat92 · 25-06-2010 6:08pm

this exam was actually a disaster.. i was hoping for an A1.. all that hard work went out the window the minute i opened the paper.. it was really unfair because it not reflect the ability of some of us students that worked hard all year around.. i did all the exam questions studied the book and the revise wise but sadly that was not enough.. id be lucky to get a high C.. at least i went in with 24% in the project

Seloth · 26-06-2010 3:40am

Erm you know the Maize question?

Well I saw how rainbowtrout said you'd need a agricultural background to guess that...I am and I did hah but DOnt know ;/

I said it was high in protein and cheaper n stuff...would that be correct.

Honestly I've heard 4 maybe 5 say they thought the test was ok....everyone else mortified.

screwedover · 26-06-2010 12:01pm

that exam was a absolute disgrace it did not reflact all the hard work us students have done over the last 2 years..i was hoping for an a or high b,i had worked so hard but that exam has turned verything upside down and will be the cause of having 2 repeat..my teacher said after the exxam there was stuff on the paper that she couldnt answer and shes been teachn the subject a long time,the people who set that paper should be ashamed..

simbathelion · 26-06-2010 4:24pm

Really fed up reading all the posts on the Ag. Science aftermath and seems no one thought the paper was ok. If they keep this type of exam up, no one will want to take on the subject for the Leaving as it will be impossible to get a high grade, and wouldn't you think that us being an agricultural country that if anything they should be promoting the subject even marketing it, they are so keen to keep us with the ole gaelige surely be to God they can look over this subject and see where they have it wrong. Some of my friends were not offered Ag. Science in their schools as there was not an ag. science teacher to teach it, so they took it up as an extra subject after school, and now their general consensus is that it was such a waste, never saw such Disillusionment its sad. It must be even more frustrating for all the Ag. Science teachers out there.

shi7zman · 26-06-2010 4:43pm

simbathelion wrote: »

Really fed up reading all the posts on the Ag. Science aftermath and seems no one thought the paper was ok. If they keep this type of exam up, no one will want to take on the subject for the Leaving as it will be impossible to get a high grade, and wouldn't you think that us being an agricultural country that if anything they should be promoting the subject even marketing it, they are so keen to keep us with the ole gaelige surely be to God they can look over this subject and see where they have it wrong. Some of my friends were not offered Ag. Science in their schools as there was not an ag. science teacher to teach it, so they took it up as an extra subject after school, and now their general consensus is that it was such a waste, never saw such Disillusionment its sad. It must be even more frustrating for all the Ag. Science teachers out there.

very well said. having come from a farming background i thought id be rewarded for practical experience... not here though. i did genetics in bio nd never hav i struggled in a question as i did in that ag question.
the sooner the syllabus changes the better!! im rele dissapointed with that exam as some of the topics iv never heard of!!
All the other science subjects syllabuses have changed, maths is changin its about time ag followed suit!!!!

Humphrey.Jones · 26-06-2010 9:13pm

shi7zman wrote: »

very well said. having come from a farming background i thought id be rewarded for practical experience... not here though. i did genetics in bio nd never hav i struggled in a question as i did in that ag question.
the sooner the syllabus changes the better!! im rele dissapointed with that exam as some of the topics iv never heard of!!
All the other science subjects syllabuses have changed, maths is changin its about time ag followed suit!!!!

A new syllabus had been produced, over 10 years ago. It's sitting in some filing cabinet immune NCCA waiting for approval. When it is eventually approved it willbe already out of date. I am extremely frustrated as a teacher of this subject.

On a positive note, I have heard from loads of teachers that will be marking this year's exam and they are furious and will be urging the Chief Examiner to remove the controversial questions.

tomo 55 · 27-06-2010 3:07am

Queetion ! must be marked out of the best 5 instead of best6, it is the fairest way for all students.

Healium · 27-06-2010 12:01pm

tomo 55 wrote: »

Queetion ! must be marked out of the best 5 instead of best6, it is the fairest way for all students.

I imagine that they'll just adjust the marking scheme for certain questions. You could say that this would be easy marks for anyone who did the controversial questions. I avoided all the controversial questions to do questions that I wasn't fully confident in

Thought I could bank on genetics....

Your way seems fairer, but I don't see it happening.

randylonghorn · 27-06-2010 5:48pm

Humphrey.Jones wrote: »

... and will be urging the Chief Examiner to remove the controversial questions.

How could they remove them though?

Some people will have answered, and answered creditably, and voiding those answers doesn't sound very fair.

Something like dividing the available marks between the best 3 rather than 4 answers in Q. 9, for example, might work better / be fairer.

rainbowtrout · 27-06-2010 6:08pm

randylonghorn wrote: »

How could they remove them though?

Some people will have answered, and answered creditably, and voiding those answers doesn't sound very fair.

Something like dividing the available marks between the best 3 rather than 4 answers in Q. 9, for example, might work better / be fairer.

I'm curious to see how the marking scheme will work myself. In previous years (not in ag science) I have seen marks awarded automatically for a part of a question if it wasn't on the syllabus and if a student attempted any part of the question they got the marks for the part that shouldn't be there.

So for example that question 9, is five parts to do four, 12 marks each and part (a) on abbatoirs was something that wasn't on the syllabus. So realistically anyone who attempted Q9 at all would get 12 marks for part (a) regardless of whether or not they did the part because they attempted the question.

However - that's not to say this exam will be dealt with in this way. I can't see it happening because where do you draw the line. All other subjects have very clear cut boundaries on what is to be asked/not asked. The other problem here is that the syllabus is not very detailed so while there are some parts of the exam which are clearly not on the syllabus, there are others where it's not so clear cut and it's more a case that past exam papers have set a precedence where that topic has not ever been asked.

This goes back to my point that the exam should not be shaping the syllabus.

For arguments sake : silage is on the syllabus, cereals are on the syllabus so a tenuous argument could be made in favour of the maize silage question. However maize was not grown in this country when the syllabus was written and is not examined as a crop. Silage is taken to be grass silage and not maize silage so precedence and standard practice would deem this question unfair and not complying with the syllabus. It's a hard one to call really.

Humphrey.Jones · 27-06-2010 7:24pm

Well said!

user12 · 28-06-2010 4:13pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'm curious to see how the marking scheme will work myself. In previous years (not in ag science) I have seen marks awarded automatically for a part of a question if it wasn't on the syllabus and if a student attempted any part of the question they got the marks for the part that shouldn't be there.

So for example that question 9, is five parts to do four, 12 marks each and part (a) on abbatoirs was something that wasn't on the syllabus. So realistically anyone who attempted Q9 at all would get 12 marks for part (a) regardless of whether or not they did the part because they attempted the question.

However - that's not to say this exam will be dealt with in this way. I can't see it happening because where do you draw the line. All other subjects have very clear cut boundaries on what is to be asked/not asked. The other problem here is that the syllabus is not very detailed so while there are some parts of the exam which are clearly not on the syllabus, there are others where it's not so clear cut and it's more a case that past exam papers have set a precedence where that topic has not ever been asked.

This goes back to my point that the exam should not be shaping the syllabus.

For arguments sake : silage is on the syllabus, cereals are on the syllabus so a tenuous argument could be made in favour of the maize silage question. However maize was not grown in this country when the syllabus was written and is not examined as a crop. Silage is taken to be grass silage and not maize silage so precedence and standard practice would deem this question unfair and not complying with the syllabus. It's a hard one to call really.

So Rainbowtrout,whats your overall opinion on the Ag Science exam?

Do you think the exam will be marked easier,harder,the same?
Will marks be giving for attempting question etc?

No one is happy with it!!

rainbowtrout · 28-06-2010 4:57pm

user12 wrote: »

So Rainbowtrout,whats your overall opinion on the Ag Science exam?

Do you think the exam will be marked easier,harder,the same?
Will marks be giving for attempting question etc?

No one is happy with it!!

If you read back a few posts I've given my opinion on quite a number of the controversial questions and as I've said in the post above I'm curious to see how it's marked. It's impossible to say otherwise until the conference and also until the standard of answers given is ascertained.

0.M.GXX · 30-06-2010 7:55pm

SO upset about that exam... i was going for an A1 or an A2.. but it looks like i wont be getting it now.. so unfaIR considering i have worked so hard for the lasst 2 years and i got interviewed with my project by an examiner and he said he would be shocked if i didnt get an A..

but after that paper i would be lucky to get a B!
so unfair that they could set a paper like that,, is there anyone we (us the students , who have worked so hard can complain to.) that Ged McGuire, chief examiner for agricultural science had some cheek setting a paper like that ,when parts of the questions werent even on the course and the english was so poor.that us studets couldnt comprend it is so unfair considering every marks matter for points this year

.

utterly unfair..!

tomo 55 · 02-07-2010 1:59am

curious to know how the marking was fixed.......

Healium · 02-07-2010 2:04am

tomo 55 wrote: »

curious to know how the marking was fixed.......

Go back a page

randylonghorn · 02-07-2010 3:02am

tomo 55 wrote: »

curious to know how the marking was fixed.......

You won't know any detail until the marking schemes are published, I'm afraid.

Some interesting posts above, certainly.

Life after Ag.Science...

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