Enda Kenny

unit 1 · 29-06-2010 8:21pm #1

What now for Enda? Who does he shoot and who does he keep?

flutered · 29-06-2010 9:42pm

he has thrown away two elections, in my book that is unforgiveable, i cannot see him improving on that,

Wide Road · 30-06-2010 11:35am

Enda is announcing his new front bench tomorrow. I wonder will he bring back Leo, Richard and others but Brian Hayes will probably lose out if the Indo is correct. Phil Hogan and Michael Ring will hope that their loyalty gets rewarded but is their any new blood ready for the front bench. Liam byrne seems to know what's going on in FG. You might tell us Liam before tomorrow and also your own views on which rebels you would bring back and which ones you would banish to the backbenches. Thanks in advance Liam.

jmayo · 30-06-2010 12:33pm

flutered wrote: »

he has thrown away two elections, in my book that is unforgiveable, i cannot see him improving on that,

Ehh what two elections ?
Kenny and his contract lost the 2007 election to bertie, biffo and the Galway tent brigade.
And we are where we are today.

If you think Kenny losing that election is unforgivable then what do you think of the voters who were suckered into voting for the party that created a bubble and then pawned the country to save their banking and developer buddies ?

BTW in all other elections Kenny and FG have performed well.

Back on front bench...
Hogan will be rewarded for being major part of Kenny's defense.
Expect him to stay with Environment.
Reilly or Hogan to be deputy leader.

I would say Mitchell, Timmins, Naughten are possibly gone.
Flanagan or Enright are toast, Enright's only saving grace is she may be there because female needed for gender balance.
Hayes could be one high profile casualty.
O'Dowd, Coveney and Varadker may get demotion.
The latter two need to be in public eye because they have eyes on the leadership role down the road.
I would love to see Vardkaer get rual affairs or Gaeltacht as way of broadening his horizonts a bit.
Shatter may get justice.
deasey and creighton will get job of cleaning the jacks.

Then again this is all supposition.

Wide Road · 30-06-2010 12:47pm

I still think Richard will feature. Any hope for the 2 Tipperary TDs? I know they didn't publically support Enda or Richard but maybe one of them may get a job.

unit 1 · 30-06-2010 7:16pm

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh what two elections ?
Kenny and his contract lost the 2007 election to bertie, biffo and the Galway tent brigade.
And we are where we are today.

If you think Kenny losing that election is unforgivable then what do you think of the voters who were suckered into voting for the party that created a bubble and then pawned the country to save their banking and developer buddies ?

BTW in all other elections Kenny and FG have performed well.

Back on front bench...
Hogan will be rewarded for being major part of Kenny's defense.
Expect him to stay with Environment.
Reilly or Hogan to be deputy leader.

I would say Mitchell, Timmins, Naughten are possibly gone.
Flanagan or Enright are toast, Enright's only saving grace is she may be there because female needed for gender balance.
Hayes could be one high profile casualty.
O'Dowd, Coveney and Varadker may get demotion.
The latter two need to be in public eye because they have eyes on the leadership role down the road.
I would love to see Vardkaer get rual affairs or Gaeltacht as way of broadening his horizonts a bit.
Shatter may get justice.
deasey and creighton will get job of cleaning the jacks.

Then again this is all supposition.

I'd say he'll keep Olwyn, for BOGOF reasons (don't forger her hubby).
Hopefully Jucinda will get her just deserts, and I'd love to see her cleaning the jacks in the council yard where I work:D
By the way could anyone do a photoshop of her well known picture postgirl shot with a bucket and mop, I just could'nt be bothered.

flutered · 30-06-2010 9:28pm

j.mayo, kenny thought that all that had to happen at the last election was go through the motions and he would be tshock. elections have to be fought, he has never made things really hard for the gov. i am anything but a gov. supporter, to me that man on tv and radio is akin to watching paint dry, or wood warp, fg have good results in the opinion pools, what is kennys rating, that is the reason for the recent heave, it is said he has done great things for f.g. f.f.s biggest problem is f.f. but kenny has done absolutly nothing to help remove them, i also have a nagging doubt that he will not be tshock

jmayo · 01-07-2010 10:09am

flutered wrote: »

j.mayo, kenny thought that all that had to happen at the last election was go through the motions and he would be tshock. elections have to be fought, he has never made things really hard for the gov. i am anything but a gov. supporter, to me that man on tv and radio is akin to watching paint dry, or wood warp, fg have good results in the opinion pools, what is kennys rating, that is the reason for the recent heave, it is said he has done great things for f.g. f.f.s biggest problem is f.f. but kenny has done absolutly nothing to help remove them, i also have a nagging doubt that he will not be tshock

Your post is very hard to read.

From what I gather you don't rate him and you claim he has done nothing to remove ff ?
Problem is he can't, short of shooting some of the backbenchers.
Gilmore can't remove them either.

ff and cowen have the numbers, simple as that.

I presume by tshock you mean taoiseach?

Bebs · 01-07-2010 11:03am

Are you kidding me? Enda was in opposition against a government which was sleazy, corrupt and inept and he failed dismally to run a coherent opposition to that.

If Enda 'Up Mayo' Kenny can't run a decent opposition then what makes you think he'd do a better job in government? The best thing that Kenny has going for him at the moment is that he's not Brian Cowen and opinion poll after opinion poll have shown that the floating voters just don't like the idea of Enda as Tshock.

piby · 01-07-2010 11:37am

unit 1 wrote: »

What now for Enda? Who does he shoot and who does he keep?

I actually had a one word answer to this but the Mods deleted it! Anyway I did have a serious point behind that post in that I think Kenny is a poor leader who has been retained by a bunch of backbenchers who were covering their own backs in the hope that they'd get rewarded with a frontbench position. Had Bruton actually won the leadership contest than I may even have considered voting FG in the next election. This, however, is an argument for another thread.

Kenny is in a difficult postion. He has to reward some of those who backed him but he can't completely shut out all those who blatantly went against him. Bruton has to be retained. He is popular both within the party and as an individual with the electorate but he also has to be put in a role which lessens his influence and reaffirms who's the boss so to speak. I've heard Enterprise spokesman being touted or something along those lines. Leo Varadkar's 'betrayal' will have hurt him as Kenny had personally earmarked him out as one for the future. That said I still think there will be a place for him in the new frontbench due to his links with the Dublin electorate. Those are the only two that I think are indispensible i.e. I'd be more than shocked if either of them were left out! As for the rest I'm not so sure I think any of the other frontbench rebels could face the axe without too much of a complaint but I think perhaps one or two will be retained to keep some sense of continuity while at the same time injecting fresh life and vigour into the party.

PeterIanStaker · 01-07-2010 12:40pm

He'll have to put Bruton on the front bench.

Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

Le King · 01-07-2010 3:34pm

Enda should never lead the next Government. Right now there is no stand out candidate where you could say: "I'd love him as Taoiseach".

I'd never vote Fine Gael with their front bench.

Right now I can see them getting into government, hopefully anyway.

jmayo · 01-07-2010 3:36pm

Well here is FG front bench.

Details

* Enda Kenny - Leader
* Sean Barrett - Foreign Affairs
* Richard Bruton - Enterprise, Jobs & Economic Planning (including public service reform)
* Catherine Byrne - Older Citizens
* Simon Coveney - Transport
* Deirdre Clune - Innovation & Research
* Jimmy Deenihan - Tourism, Culture & Sport
* Andrew Doyle - Agriculture, Fisheries & Food
* Frank Feighan - Community, Equality & Gaeltacht Affairs
* Charlie Flanagan - Children
* Phil Hogan - Environment, Heritage & Local Government
* Paul Kehoe - Chief Whip (with responsibility for political reform)
* Michael Noonan - Finance
* Fergus O'Dowd - Education & Skills
* John Perry - Small Business
* James Reilly - Deputy Leader & Health & Children, (with responsibility for policy coordination & implementation)
* Michael Ring - Social Protection
* Alan Shatter - Justice & Law Reform
* David Stanton - Defence
* Leo Varadkar - Communications & Natural Resources

I was kinda right on Shatter, naughten, hayes, mitchell, but it wasn't hard with some of them.
Surprised Doyle got gig since he and Timmins both went against Kenny.

Supposedly Enright said she did nto want seat for personal reasonsand thus Flanagan survives to keep the biffos and buffalos happy but look what he gets.
Shatter was rewarded as I said.
I thought Ring would get agriculture, but I would say Doyle would be casualty if Kenny and Gilmore were doing a government in the morning.

Varadkar was lucky to not get Community, Equality & Gaeltacht Affairs.

It will be interesting to see Noonan have a go at Burton and lenihan.

oscarBravo · 01-07-2010 3:44pm

jmayo wrote: »

Richard Bruton - Enterprise, Jobs & Economic Planning (including public service reform)

Heh. The poisoned chalice.

jmayo · 01-07-2010 3:52pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Heh. The poisoned chalice.

It is nice one alright.
He still has a portfolio which is ultra important in our current climate, but the public sector is a touchy subject that someone has to grasp.

Only one worse would be health and Reilly actually seems to give a sh** about it and is best placed to talk on it.

Also Reilly is moving closer to being leadership material, it will be remembered by the loyalists that he did not stab his leader in the back.

maynooth_rules · 01-07-2010 4:11pm

So the big loser is Brian Hayes, and a big demotion for Vradaker. The two Fine Gael TDs I have the most respect for. Makes my next vote must less certain. Still think that would be a hell of an improvement on the FF front bench

jmayo · 01-07-2010 4:23pm

maynooth_rules wrote: »

So the big loser is Brian Hayes, and a big demotion for Vradaker. The two Fine Gael TDs I have the most respect for. Makes my next vote must less certain. Still think that would be a hell of an improvement on the FF front bench

i look it as between hayes, coveney and varadker.
One of those definetly had to get it.
Coeveney was probably saved due to fact he was in Cork.
Varadker would be seen as a lot brighter and more capable than Hayes.

Hayes is nothing special to right home about, actually neither are the other two.

Coveney I believe is a gombeen, he may have gotten good education but it doesn't necessarily me it sunk in and he has been shown up a few times.
He is form old FG family and daddies connections help.

Varadker might be the darling of he more right wing element, but he does have habit of putting his foot in his mouth ala references to Garrett.

maynooth_rules · 01-07-2010 4:33pm

jmayo wrote: »

i look it as between hayes, coveney and varadker.
One of those definetly had to get it.
Coeveney was probably saved due to fact he was in Cork.
Varadker would be seen as a lot brighter and more capable than Hayes.

Hayes is nothing special to right home about, actually neither are the other two.

Coveney I believe is a gombeen, he may have gotten good education but it doesn't necessarily me it sunk in and he has been shown up a few times.
He is form old FG family and daddies connections help.

Varadker might be the darling of he more right wing element, but he does have habit of putting his foot in his mouth ala references to Garrett.

But he backed himself up with his comment about Gareth. It wasn't that it was wrong what he said, he was spot on. I found it refreshing that he could be that blunt about a former leader of his party. I do agree on Coveney though, I cant warm to him and he never impresses me when being interviewed.

rashers10 · 01-07-2010 4:34pm

Noonan, Reilly and Kenny .... gawd. What a combination of fools.
Makes it very hard to vote for FG.

A doctor in charge of the health budget? Not sure about that one.

maynooth_rules · 01-07-2010 4:40pm

rashers10 wrote: »

Noonan, Reilly and Kenny .... gawd. What a combination of fools.
Makes it very hard to vote for FG.

A doctor in charge of the health budget? Not sure about that one.

Noonan has shown himself to be very intelligent on all matters regarding economics and finance so to call him a fool is quite idiotic.
Reilly actually has a plan for the future of the healthcare in this country, which I can assure you will be a lot more beneficial for you and me than Harneys disgrace of a two system set up.
You are not sure of a doctor in charge of the health budget......at the moment we have an Arts graduate with no party in that brief. I know which id prefer

jmayo · 01-07-2010 4:48pm

rashers10 wrote: »

Noonan, Reilly and Kenny .... gawd. What a combination of fools.
Makes it very hard to vote for FG.

A doctor in charge of the health budget? Not sure about that one.

Yeah it would be much better to have a couple of teachers (harney, martin) and a solicitor (cowen) as the ones in charge of health. :rolleyes:

Look at the three top people in all the parties.
Does Happy Gilmore, Joan Burton and Jan O'Sullivan inspire you ?
Any chance they might have some policies that does involve budget cuts ?

Does cowen, lenihan and harney inspire you ?
Well we all know what they have achieved.

rashers10 · 01-07-2010 4:54pm

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Noonan has shown himself to be very intelligent on all matters regarding economics and finance so to call him a fool is quite idiotic.
Reilly actually has a plan for the future of the healthcare in this country, which I can assure you will be a lot more beneficial for you and me than Harneys disgrace of a two system set up.
You are not sure of a doctor in charge of the health budget......at the moment we have an Arts graduate with no party in that brief. I know which id prefer

Noonan is a failed leader (but you are right, he's an intelligent guy)
Reilly is populist and arrogant. I dislike his manner.
Kenny does not have traction with swing voters. People do not see him as a potential leader of the country (see any polls).
I'm not sure how effectively a doctor could crack the whip with the consultants, etc.. .but you have a point in that we usually have a teacher in control of the education budget.

I'm not being deliberately churlish, I just don't think it's a good front bench (especially at the upper tiers).
I was a FF/PD voter that is looking for somewhere else to put my vote and I'm not seeing anything inspirational here.

PeterIanStaker · 01-07-2010 4:57pm

rashers10 wrote: »

A doctor in charge of the health budget? Not sure about that one.

Still a country mile better than an ex - PD. Doctors are required to show concern for their fellow human, while the exact opposite is a requirement for Harney.

rashers10 · 01-07-2010 5:04pm

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Still a country mile better than an ex - PD. Doctors are required to show concern for their fellow human, while the exact opposite is a requirement for Harney.

I'm not here to defend FF or whoever (be a dangerous practice these days), I'm just saying that there are many people looking for a change now are finding it hard to be impressed by whats on offer.
The leader of the main opposition party should be a shoe-in the way things are at the moment but he's struggling.
It seems to be 'best of a bad lot' type of choice.

But I guess that's realpolitik.

PeterIanStaker · 01-07-2010 5:16pm

How is defending FF a dangerous practice? I thought Indo hacks as well as RTE clowns like Tubridy were paid fat salaries by their masters?

Yes people are unimpressed by the opposition, but theyre even more unimpressed with the gobsh!tes in power.

tim_holsters · 01-07-2010 5:18pm

Enda has got to go he's been leader for 8 years already, frankly I'm appalled with Fine Gael that they haven't got rid.

trapsagenius · 01-07-2010 5:21pm

jmayo wrote: »

Well here is FG front bench.

Details

* Enda Kenny - Leader
* Sean Barrett - Foreign Affairs
* Richard Bruton - Enterprise, Jobs & Economic Planning (including public service reform)
* Catherine Byrne - Older Citizens
* Simon Coveney - Transport
* Deirdre Clune - Innovation & Research
* Jimmy Deenihan - Tourism, Culture & Sport
* Andrew Doyle - Agriculture, Fisheries & Food
* Frank Feighan - Community, Equality & Gaeltacht Affairs
* Charlie Flanagan - Children
* Phil Hogan - Environment, Heritage & Local Government
* Paul Kehoe - Chief Whip (with responsibility for political reform)
* Michael Noonan - Finance
* Fergus O'Dowd - Education & Skills
* John Perry - Small Business
* James Reilly - Deputy Leader & Health & Children, (with responsibility for policy coordination & implementation)
* Michael Ring - Social Protection
* Alan Shatter - Justice & Law Reform
* David Stanton - Defence
* Leo Varadkar - Communications & Natural Resources

I was kinda right on Shatter, naughten, hayes, mitchell, but it wasn't hard with some of them.
Surprised Doyle got gig since he and Timmins both went against Kenny.

Supposedly Enright said she did nto want seat for personal reasonsand thus Flanagan survives to keep the biffos and buffalos happy but look what he gets.
Shatter was rewarded as I said.
I thought Ring would get agriculture, but I would say Doyle would be casualty if Kenny and Gilmore were doing a government in the morning.

Varadkar was lucky to not get Community, Equality & Gaeltacht Affairs.

It will be interesting to see Noonan have a go at Burton and lenihan.

I have to say that that is a significantly weaker front bench than pre-heave.The 2 FGers I had most respect for (Bruton and Varadkar) have been, understandably in all fairness, sidelined.

Just on that subject, didn't a few (bruton and Varadkar included incidentally) of the front bench say that it would be "hypocritical" to take back their front bench positions?Good to see the confidence in Kenny is back so quickly.:rolleyes:

jmayo wrote: »

Varadker might be the darling of he more right wing element, but he does have habit of putting his foot in his mouth ala references to Garrett.

Slagging off Garret Fitzgerald actually made Varadkar go up in my estimation, even if what he said was technically inaccurate (well not the bit about his articles being boring, the bit about tripling the national debt).

Mal-Adjusted · 01-07-2010 5:50pm

flutered wrote: »

he has thrown away two elections, in my book that is unforgiveable, i cannot see him improving on that,

eh....you are aware that not winning an election and throwing an election away are two separate things, right?

jmayo · 01-07-2010 5:52pm

rashers10 wrote: »

...
I was a FF/PD voter that is looking for somewhere else to put my vote and I'm not seeing anything inspirational here.

So will you still vote for FF ?

trapsagenius wrote: »

I have to say that that is a significantly weaker front bench than pre-heave.The 2 FGers I had most respect for (Bruton and Varadkar) have been, understandably in all fairness, sidelined.

Just on that subject, didn't a few (bruton and Varadkar included incidentally) of the front bench say that it would be "hypocritical" to take back their front bench positions?Good to see the confidence in Kenny is back so quickly.:rolleyes:

Slagging off Garret Fitzgerald actually made Varadkar go up in my estimation, even if what he said was technically inaccurate (well not the bit about his articles being boring, the bit about tripling the national debt).

ah traps,
nice to see you still posting around here, but only on FG/Kenny threads ?

Noonan is not bad, he is smart enough and I can't wait to see him hammer into lenihan.

I will admit FG front bench is not the greatest, but then again look across at the government :rolleyes:

The sad thing about Irish politics is that if you put them altogether you would barely find enough for a decent front bench, not that I would include anyone from ff as I see them as being of low moral character.

Sadly the ones that shoudl be the politicans to best run the country would not be electable and don't have the inclination to do the ass licking necessary, and the ones that are the actual politicans should not be left near running the country.

Speaking of tripling debts, any chance you have an opinion on biffo sinking the country and lenihan signing blank cheques for Anglo life support ?

BTW what did old ff faithful jack lynch do to the national debt with his removal of household rates and car tax ?

Jicked · 01-07-2010 5:57pm

Presumably I was the type of voter that FG might have been looking to sway, young, never voted FG before but was willing to do whatever necessary to ensure a big defeat for FF. What a horrendous front-bench that is though, very male, very old and very rural. No thanks.

steelcityblues · 01-07-2010 6:10pm

A front bench dominated by the 'fogeys', who are part of a generation, or generations of reps., that have contributed to the continual decline in trust of politicians in this country.

It was questionable if Kenny really had a clue about the changing Ireland, when appointed leader in 2002, and it has been confirmed eight years later.

Not that the other crowd really know either mind!

trapsagenius · 01-07-2010 6:12pm

jmayo wrote: »

ah traps,
nice to see you still posting around here, but only on FG/Kenny threads ?

In fairness I'm more of an interest in history than in politics.Most of the time I don't really have a lot to say tbh-I'll be voting for Labour in the next GE, but only because I view them as the least worst solution.That's pretty much the bulk of my feelings at the moment.

jmayo wrote: »

Noonan is not bad, he is smart enough and I can't wait to see him hammer into lenihan.

It'll be interesting to see how Noonan shapes up alright.He comes a across as a bright enough fellow, even if he was a very poor leader.I doubt he will be as good in the position as Bruton was however.

jmayo wrote: »

The sad thing about Irish politics is that if you put them altogether you would barely find enough for a decent front bench, not that I would include anyone from ff as I see them as being of low moral character.

I don't know is this directed at me-I'm not a member of FF.On this subject-whatever you feel about Brian Lenihan's decisions, surely you would agree that his willingness to continue working despite his awful illness shows that he is of high moral character?

jmayo wrote: »

Sadly the ones that shoudl be the politicans to best run the country would not be electable and don't have the inclination to do the ass licking necessary, and the ones that are the actual politicans should not be left near running the country.

Generally agree with this.

jmayo wrote: »

Speaking of tripling debts, any chance you have an opinion on biffo sinking the country and lenihan signing blank cheques for Anglo life support ?

My opinion-Cowen was a terrible Minister for Finance.Regarding Anglo-At the time of the bank guarantee, I think they acted they made the right decision and the recent banking report tends to back up, on the most part, this assertion.Also about NAMA and so on-I'm not an economist but I agree with many of the commentators who view it as the "least worst" solution.Obviously, far from ideal, but has to be done, imo.

jmayo wrote: »

BTW what did old ff faithful jack lynch do to the national debt with his removal of household rates and car tax ?

I have made this point many times.What Lynch did, "buying" the election, was wrong and I condemn this.I also feel that it was somewhat understandable, because Lynch probably felt it was the only way to ensure an electoral success after the Tullymander.

How does this link up to the new FG front bench by the way?

Pride Fighter · 01-07-2010 6:22pm

jmayo wrote: »

Look at the three top people in all the parties.
Does Happy Gilmore, Joan Burton and Jan O'Sullivan inspire you ?
Any chance they might have some policies that does involve budget cuts ?

You obviously know little about Labour. We have Ruairi Quinn, former finance minister, Michael D Higgins former Gaeltacht and Arts minister, Joan Burton who you said, former lecturer in accounting DIT. Labour's front bench is the best in the Dail, better than the idiot yes men in Fine Gael.

And yes Labour does have a policy on budget cuts. Last budget they advocated a 5.8 billion correction, 4 billion in cuts and 1.8 billion in new taxes.

RonMexico · 01-07-2010 6:29pm

That frontbench looks like a bunch of bidders at a cattle mart - I'd have considered voting for a party led by Bruton but no way would I row in with the Up Mayo gombeen crowd.

bijapos · 01-07-2010 8:30pm

Sad to see Enda appoint Dun Laoghaires Sean Barrett to such a prominent post on the front bench. Barrett has a bad track record of taking 'donations' off dodgy property developers. I would have hoped that Kenny would have shown some grit and kept his ilk away from the front bench.

There again Enda reversed Noonans policy on 'corporate donations', Noonan was against them, Kenny thinks they are fine. I doubt if Noonan will get him to change his mind.

PeterIanStaker · 01-07-2010 10:53pm

RonMexico wrote: »

That frontbench looks like a bunch of bidders at a cattle mart - I'd have considered voting for a party led by Bruton but no way would I row in with the Up Mayo gombeen crowd.

Cant be any worse than the Drumcondra Mafia:rolleyes:, although if they were in power they'd soon become equally as corrupt.

Wide Road · 01-07-2010 11:59pm

bijapos wrote: »

Sad to see Enda appoint Dun Laoghaires Sean Barrett to such a prominent post on the front bench. Barrett has a bad track record of taking 'donations' off dodgy property developers. I would have hoped that Kenny would have shown some grit and kept his ilk away from the front bench.

There again Enda reversed Noonans policy on 'corporate donations', Noonan was against them, Kenny thinks they are fine. I doubt if Noonan will get him to change his mind.

Tell us more about Sean Barrett taking donations from dodgy property developers. The weekend papers might have something on this if it's true.

Nehaxak · 02-07-2010 1:33am

This is pathetic really, there's absolutely no chance now that there'll be any real opposition to FF from FG in the next election. SF will probably be the third largest party in the Republic come the next election, Labour in First, FF second.
FG will be a lowly fourth, probably on par if not below the Greens.
Pathetic ! +1 for the gombeens yet again.

bijapos · 02-07-2010 10:17am

Wide Road wrote: »

Tell us more about Sean Barrett taking donations from dodgy property developers. The weekend papers might have something on this if it's true.

Nothing new, all old news and well known by the media, but to name two;

Cited in the Mahon Tribunal for taking donations off Monarch Properties.

Took money off Donagh Barry.

maynooth_rules · 02-07-2010 11:51am

RonMexico wrote: »

That frontbench looks like a bunch of bidders at a cattle mart - I'd have considered voting for a party led by Bruton but no way would I row in with the Up Mayo gombeen crowd.

Unfortunatly I do agree with this a small bit. However I still prefer the new front bench to a front bench that contains the worst TD I have seen in my 25 years in this country, Mary Coughlan, Noel Dempsey and Mary Harney.

maynooth_rules · 02-07-2010 11:54am

Nehaxak wrote: »

This is pathetic really, there's absolutely no chance now that there'll be any real opposition to FF from FG in the next election. SF will probably be the third largest party in the Republic come the next election, Labour in First, FF second.
FG will be a lowly fourth, probably on par if not below the Greens.
Pathetic ! +1 for the gombeens yet again.

You expect the biggest party in the country in all bar one of the last umpteen opinion polls, to dramatically collapse to 4th place because of some changing of seats on the front bench and a couple of demotions. Stop talking rubbish please.

jmayo · 02-07-2010 11:55am

trapsagenius wrote: »

In fairness I'm more of an interest in history than in politics.Most of the time I don't really have a lot to say tbh-I'll be voting for Labour in the next GE, but only because I view them as the least worst solution.That's pretty much the bulk of my feelings at the moment.

I post now and again over in that neck of the woods myself.

trapsagenius wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how Noonan shapes up alright.He comes a across as a bright enough fellow, even if he was a very poor leader.I doubt he will be as good in the position as Bruton was however.

He might not have the accumen of Bruton for the technicalities but he will debate much better.

trapsagenius wrote: »

I don't know is this directed at me-I'm not a member of FF.On this subject-whatever you feel about Brian Lenihan's decisions, surely you would agree that his willingness to continue working despite his awful illness shows that he is of high moral character?

No it's not directed at you but at a party whose finance minister you hold in high esteem.

BTW lenihan is of low moral character.
He played part in haighey funeral, the man who had robbed money from the fund for his dying father.
He publicly and vehimently backed a fellow legal professional who had lied to high court.

Continuing to work or hold onto power whilst ill does not mean you are of high moral character.
Just ask some of the worlds dictators.

trapsagenius wrote: »

My opinion-Cowen was a terrible Minister for Finance.Regarding Anglo-At the time of the bank guarantee, I think they acted they made the right decision and the recent banking report tends to back up, on the most part, this assertion.Also about NAMA and so on-I'm not an economist but I agree with many of the commentators who view it as the "least worst" solution.Obviously, far from ideal, but has to be done, imo.

There are too many questions,with no answers regarding the night of the bank guarantee and thanks to ff we will not know the full truth.
The problem with right decision for the most part is it will cost us anything upto 50 billion between useless Anglo loans in NAMA and recapitalisation costs.

trapsagenius wrote: »

How does this link up to the new FG front bench by the way?

I was only trying to get answers on a few outstanding questions

and you did mention Garrett tripling debts.

Nehaxak wrote: »

This is pathetic really, there's absolutely no chance now that there'll be any real opposition to FF from FG in the next election. SF will probably be the third largest party in the Republic come the next election, Labour in First, FF second.
FG will be a lowly fourth, probably on par if not below the Greens.
Pathetic ! +1 for the gombeens yet again.

FFS do some of the people who post on here have the faintest idea of Irish politics ?

SF are not attractive to huge swaths of the Irish population.
They might be attractive to staunch republicans, malcontents who view the Gardaí as some fascist police force and certain people (primarily city folk) with ideas of socialist utopia.
The rest of us, the ones actually paying enough tax for the services we receive and believers in things like the rule of the Gardaí, don't want them.

Anyway SF does not have the candidates to mount serious challenge in lots of constituencies.

Labour do not have the infrastructure to challenge the big two with regard to spread of candidates throughout the country.
So they may big gains in cities, pretty large towns and certain commutter areas there will be big chunks of the country with no labour TDs.

The other thing that is not attractive to lots of voters is Labour's close relationship with unions, in particular the unions who dominate the public sector which soaks up huge chunk of the public purse.

So please forget the crap that Labour will be no.1 and SF no.3

Liam Byrne · 02-07-2010 7:31pm

trapsagenius wrote: »

I don't know is this directed at me-I'm not a member of FF.On this subject-whatever you feel about Brian Lenihan's decisions, surely you would agree that his willingness to continue working despite his awful illness shows that he is of high moral character?

You do seem to defend a lot of the indefensible, including wanting Ahern as President, though ?

Lenihan's illness is irrelevant, btw; he's either well enough for the job or he isn't, the same as any of us. He's getting well paid for it, remember.

Moral character would involve working in the interests of the country, not throwing money at the banks.

trapsagenius wrote: »

My opinion-Cowen was a terrible Minister for Finance.Regarding Anglo-At the time of the bank guarantee, I think they acted they made the right decision and the recent banking report tends to back up, on the most part, this assertion.

Sorry, but the recent banking report does not "back that up"; the report says that they did it arseways.

As for your comments about Cowen being useless, well he just continued in the vein of his predecessors (and actually, to be fair, tried to reverse some of their hair-brained f**k-ups).......still useless, though, as proven by the "recent banking report" to which you refer.

trapsagenius wrote: »

Also about NAMA and so on-I'm not an economist but I agree with many of the commentators who view it as the "least worst" solution.Obviously, far from ideal, but has to be done, imo.

We obviously differ on that as much as we do our choice of president to represent the country.

RATM · 03-07-2010 3:46am

Jicked wrote: »

Presumably I was the type of voter that FG might have been looking to sway, young, never voted FG before but was willing to do whatever necessary to ensure a big defeat for FF. What a horrendous front-bench that is though, very male, very old and very rural. No thanks.

Im the same , I was a possible FG voter at the next election, moreso to get FF out of power than anything but still because I beleived in the party but not in Kenny. Now Kenny goes and installs Baldy Noonan in Finance and Shatter in Justice. Noonan was more or less a national joke during the 2002 elections when he toured the country in the Baldy Bus.

And if Shatters behaviour in filibustering awkward questions about Israel at a recent foreign affairs committee is anything to go by I don't want him anywhere near Justice.
This front bench picked by Kenny has just totally turned me off and Im guessing that Labours new voters are turned off by it too. FG missed a valuable opportunity to bring a whole load of swing voters into their grasp with a Richard Bruton leadership and they will pay for it dearly at the next election.

unit 1 · 03-07-2010 10:07am

Mr Brutons leadership qualifications were sorely tested and found to be wanting. Basically when the chips were down he could'nt cut the mustard and it was obvious to his party that installing him as leader would not be seen as enough of a sea change to please the media.
The media have decided that Kenny is unfit, not the voters, and we will almost certainly see a different result when we get into election mode, especially when windbag Gilmore is put to the test.

(Oh my god, they've just tried to kill Kenny. You b*****d:D)

trapsagenius · 03-07-2010 5:18pm

jmayo wrote: »

BTW lenihan is of low moral character.
He played part in haighey funeral, the man who had robbed money from the fund for his dying father.
He publicly and vehimently backed a fellow legal professional who had lied to high court.

I think he was asked to say a piece and it would have been poor form to refuse, imo.There is a time for recriminations, but immediately after someone's death is not the time.Also, if Brian Lenihan could find it in him to forgive Haughey even after what he did to his father (sorry to get sidetracked again, but didn't Haughey only take the extra money from the fund?Obviously this is still completely indefensible, but its not as bad as taking money when it was still desperately needed.I am open to correction n this point, and I still think its repulsive), then doesn't that reflect well on him again?

jmayo wrote: »

He publicly and vehimently backed a fellow legal professional who had lied to high court.

Well I would dispute that he argued "vehemently", but I can't really argue this point-the whole O'Dea saga reflected very badly on the government.In fairness though, the 2 men most culpable ( besides O'Dea himself are Cowen and Dermot Ahern.

jmayo wrote: »

I was only trying to get answers on a few outstanding questions
and you did mention Garrett tripling debts.

Just to clarify this point-it was Varadkar who said that Fitzgerald tripled debts.While I certainly have no fondness for Fitzgerald, and I think he was an awful Taoiseach, AFAIK, he did not triple or even double debts-I remember reading once that in real terms he actually stopped them from rising, so what Varadkar said is inaccurate.

I just liked it because he was willing to slag Fitzgerald off, even thought he was an FGer, and because he said that Fitzgerald's articles are boring.,which they are.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You do seem to defend a lot of the indefensible, including wanting Ahern as President, though ?

I don't regard liking Bertie Ahern as an "indefensible" act.This has been done before.I'm not going to convince you to like him and I don't really see the point in dragging it up again.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Y
Lenihan's illness is irrelevant, btw; he's either well enough for the job or he isn't, the same as any of us. He's getting well paid for it, remember.

Look, place yourself in his shoes-he is part of probably the most unpopular government in the history of Ireland.With the cancer, he is presented with a cast-iron excuse to get out of the firing line and no-one would say a bad word against a man with cancer.Instead, he chooses to carry on, regardless.I think that proves his high moral character.Also, I would say that money is irrelevant in this instance-it looks like he won't be around too long to enjoy it, so I doubt it was a big issue when making the decision.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Moral character would involve working in the interests of the country, not throwing money at the banks.

I firmly believe that Lenihan has done his best to act on the interests of the country.Lets not forget that many, if not most, other politicians would have shirked decisions such as PS wage cuts, which Lenihan did not do.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Sorry, but the recent banking report does not "back that up"; the report says that they did it arseways.

I was of the impression that the conclusion they came to that a wide ranging guarantee had to be made, but it should not have included subordinated debt?Most people would agree that with the information that seems to have been available to him at the time, Lenihan made the best decision he could, given the circumstances.Hardly "arseways".

Liam Byrne wrote: »

We obviously differ on that as much as we do our choice of president to represent the country.

Yes, we clearly do.

oscarBravo · 03-07-2010 7:26pm

trapsagenius wrote: »

...he said that Fitzgerald's articles are boring.,which they are.

I disagree. I enjoy his articles; they are generally well-informed and articulate.

I also had the privilege of spending some time in his company last year, and he's a very enjoyable man to listen to.

trapsagenius · 03-07-2010 7:44pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

I disagree. I enjoy his articles; they are generally well-informed and articulate.

I'm with Varadkar on this one I'm afraid.;)

oscarBravo · 03-07-2010 7:46pm

trapsagenius wrote: »

I'm with Varadkar on this one I'm afraid.;)

That's cool. Well-informed and articulate isn't everyone's cup of tea.

j/k

Liam Byrne · 03-07-2010 8:05pm

trapsagenius wrote: »

Look, place yourself in his shoes-he is part of probably the most unpopular government in the history of Ireland.With the cancer, he is presented with a cast-iron excuse to get out of the firing line and no-one would say a bad word against a man with cancer.Instead, he chooses to carry on, regardless.I think that proves his high moral character.

He's an FF member by choice. And since FF don't even seem to realise the reason why they're unpopular, and they don't even use "the cast iron excuse" of stuff like by-elections or obvious inarguable votes of no confidence in order to "get out of the firing line", I don't think it's "noble" or "high moral character"; I think it's just part of the FF mindset.

"God love you, you're sick, so we won't raise an eyebrow about you throwing our hard-earned money down the toilet that is Anglo" might be OK by you, but not by me.

I could say more, but I'll leave it at the above, because the thread is meant to be about Enda Kenny.

Enda Kenny

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