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"We voted Yes to Lisbon, now where are the jobs Fianna Fail?"

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  • 23-06-2010 1:17pm
    #1
    guinnessdrinker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭


    I was in town the other day and I seen a poster aimed at Fianna Fail and although I can't remember the exact slogan, it went along the lines of "We voted Yes to Lisbon, now where are the jobs Fianna Fail?"

    I think it's true that a lot of poeple voted Yes to Lisbon the second time around because of their fears over the economy. I don't think voting Yes has made much of a difference to our economy though and I think if Ireland had voted No we would still be in the same postion that we are in now.

    I don't want to start a debate on the pros or cons of the Lisbon Treaty itself. I just wanted to know what do FF and other groups that called for a yes vote on the basis of jobs say about this issue now or is it a forgotten issue for them now the treaty has been passed by the Irish people.


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    #2
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Ah the irony... we voted yes to Lisbon on the basis on jobs and closer ties to Europe but the only thing we got was the ECB breathing down our necks and in all intents and purposes dictating Irish budgets from now until...well god knows when.

    Also I still maintain that it was the ONLY time that the voters had an opportunity to get rid of FF from government. 2012 seems a long way off now doesnt it.

    Hmmm, Lisbon Vs Nama.... surely Lisbon isn't worth Nama FFS no matter how much you love Europe.


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    #3
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Being at the "heart" of the EU is one of the selling points Ireland has to offer FDI. Voting No to Lisbon could have left us out in the cold and lost us that selling point at a time when FDI is hugely important to us as our domestic "industry" (i.e. selling houses to each other) has died it's inevitable death.


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    #4
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    Saw the same poster, fairly sure it was put up by the socialist party.


    Better off voting Yes to Lisbon in the long term, as regards overseas investment into Ireland.

    If there had been a No vote like the extreme left and extreme right had campaigned for, I wonder what the poster would read?


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    #5
    PomBear
    Registered Users Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭PomBear


    Fine Gael and Labour also spouted that garbage knowing full well what they were doing


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    #6
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #7
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    You are right but now the EU are going to make sure that Ireland and other nations are going to get it right by by pre-approving their budgets. Otherwise the ECB wont lend us the money.


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    #8
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,888 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    PeterIanStaker wrote: »

    If there had been a No vote like the extreme left and extreme right had campaigned for, I wonder what the poster would read?

    :confused:


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    #9
    BUNK1982
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    Why do so many people think that the government can click it's fingers and provide jobs??

    It's not that easy and if Ireland had rejected the Lisbon treaty we would certainly be worse off. Things can always get worse!


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    #10
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    :confused:

    What I mean is if the vote in the second referendum had been a "No", what kind of posters would be put up around the place?


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    #11
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    BUNK1982 wrote: »
    Why do so many people think that the government can click it's fingers and provide jobs??
    Because they've done it so well in the past?

    That is why we have such a bloated public service isn't it?


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    #12
    ART6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭ART6


    Every Irish referendum to do with the EU has always been preceded by the all party statement that voting yes is essential for jobs. The Nice treaty was sold to the people on that claim and for once the political spin turned out to be the truth. It was good for jobs. Polish ones. Romanian ones. All of them in Ireland until the employers found it cheaper to move their operations to those countries.

    Having said that, given the state of our economy we would be losing jobs at a frightening rate irrespective of Lisbon. The loss, and the absence of new jobs, was due to fiscal irresponsibility and was not the fault of the EU or Lisbon. The only contributing EU factor was our membership of the EMU which deprived us of any control over our currency and interest rates, and given the displayed competence of the government even that might not have been a bad thing in retrospect.

    Whatever, we are in the EMU and tied into the Euro, and we would be in even deeper s**t without it. The failure of the promised jobs to materialise is the least of our current problems.


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    #13
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #14
    BUNK1982
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Because they've done it so well in the past?

    That is why we have such a bloated public service isn't it?

    Not to mention an almost 3rd world planning process that means there are enough housing units to last for the next 20 - 30 years so that's put paid to our construction industry.


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    #15
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    PeterIanStaker wrote: »
    Saw the same poster, fairly sure it was put up by the socialist party.


    Better off voting Yes to Lisbon in the long term, as regards overseas investment into Ireland.

    If there had been a No vote like the extreme left and extreme right had campaigned for, I wonder what the poster would read?

    Ireland doesn't do long term, but if it did it would be the best in the world.


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    #16
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    fontanalis wrote: »
    Ireland doesn't do long term, but if it did it would be the best in the world.

    so if the second referendum was a no, what do you think would happen? Obviously the govt would do fuck all, but how would businesses/investors react?


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    #17
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    PeterIanStaker wrote: »
    so if the second referendum was a no, what do you think would happen? Obviously the govt would do fuck all, but how would businesses/investors react?

    I mean that being part of a cohesive trading block is good for ireland in the long run but opponents are being petty by pointing out that no jobs have materialised out of thin air overnight.
    And if Ireland did do long term thinking the current situation might have been foreseen past the bubble.


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    #18
    Nate--IRL--
    Registered Users Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    6ezw5e.jpg

    2mq41eq.jpg

    Nate


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    #19
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    fontanalis wrote: »
    I mean that being part of a cohesive trading block is good for ireland in the long run but opponents are being petty by pointing out that no jobs have materialised out of thin air overnight.
    And if Ireland did do long term thinking the current situation might have been foreseen past the bubble.

    I agree, but the powers that be didnt think beyond the bubble and had their heads in the sand. Fiddling while Rome burns springs to mind.


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    #20
    PHB
    Registered Users Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Where are the abortions, the federal republic and the new minimum wage?


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    #21
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Typical idiocy that is on display in Ireland. Vote FF year after year. Vote "No" in a referendum, ah sure we must have got it wrong, lets vote on it again! Also long as the public flip flops on issues like that they have no credibility.
    We were fed a load of lies.


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    #22
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,307 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    Nate--IRL-- wrote: »
    6ezw5e.jpg

    Nate

    bubbles, oh the irony

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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    #23
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    and cardboard bubbles at that!


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    #24
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    jank wrote: »
    You are right but now the EU are going to make sure that Ireland and other nations are going to get it right by by pre-approving their budgets. Otherwise the ECB wont lend us the money.

    Oh no, we'll have to get our budget right for a change :P

    Tis a good thing.

    ECB's money, ECB's rules. Don't like it leave the currency. Of course we won't do that as it massively benefits us and I'm glad of that as our government has no interest in creating a good budget, only staying in power concerns them.


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    #25
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,464 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Here's jobs that were created in the last few days:
    http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0618/biotrin.html
    http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0621/jobs.html

    There's a few examples like this every week.

    These are multinational companies, that can set up anywhere. They set up here due to our close ties to Europe, speaking English and being in the Euro, and a low tax rate (other countries also offer this).

    Now, can all these jobs be directly attributed to the yes vote on Lisbon? Maybe not, but at least some of them would be.

    The company I work for is undergoing a lot of expansion, which I doubt would be occurring if we marginalised ourselves from Europe.

    The EU is funding €500m for Metro North, which will pay for a lot of salaries.

    We're most definitely in a lot less sh*t due to saying Yes, then if we had said No. Have any predictions on the No side came true? Any abortions? Conscription? Has the state ceased to exist?


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    #26
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,408 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Theres been a couple of threads like this one flying around in the past few weeks linked to the Lisbon Treaty. Exactly as I predicted although a few years early..........

    I really would love it if there was something similiar to boards.ie in the 70's when the first EU vote was held in this country.
    We could look back on what the no side were saying about the EU and how bad it was for us. The same people continue to be very anti EU and I dont think a single thing has changed in their attitudes towards the EU since then. Despite all the good joining the EU has done for us. Of curse there has been some bad however in the majority it has been good.
    While this hasnt been a vote for or against the EU, there were those who wanted to turn it such a way, on both sides.

    Anyway, the no side will no doubt link anything "negative" that happens this country with the yes vote, while the yes side will anything positve that happens this country with the yes vote.
    The reality, the treaty hasnt been ratified fully as of it and COULD still fall down, it will no doubt take years to see the results of this, but I think the whole thing, for the common man on the street was much ado about feck all really.
    Theres far more sinister things happening in boardrooms and meetings that the public have no vote on, no idea of and which will have a far bigger impact on them. NAMA, bank bailouts, golden circles, government/Union/Ibec talks etc.....
    From here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055700210&page=2



    I'm not standing up for FF just pointing out a few realities....
    Also, OP, do you think FF and the pro Lisboners have stopped trying to create jobs?
    Would it be possible to link any job creation of the past few months with Lisbon (there has been job creation)


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    #27
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    would it be fair to say that as an opponent of big goverment and all that entails , you would have been against ireland joining the single european currency in the 1st place


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    #28
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    astrofool wrote: »
    Here's jobs that were created in the last few days:
    http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0618/biotrin.html
    http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0621/jobs.html

    There's a few examples like this every week.

    These are multinational companies, that can set up anywhere. They set up here due to our close ties to Europe, speaking English and being in the Euro, and a low tax rate (other countries also offer this).

    Now, can all these jobs be directly attributed to the yes vote on Lisbon? Maybe not, but at least some of them would be.

    The company I work for is undergoing a lot of expansion, which I doubt would be occurring if we marginalised ourselves from Europe.

    The EU is funding €500m for Metro North, which will pay for a lot of salaries.

    We're most definitely in a lot less sh*t due to saying Yes, then if we had said No. Have any predictions on the No side came true? Any abortions? Conscription? Has the state ceased to exist?

    As far as the no side are concerned from Lisbon, jobs created don't count less unemployment reaches zero overnight and/or the companies say they wouldn't have created the jobs had we not voted yes to Lisbon explicitly.

    As those scenarios are clearly pie in the sky stuff they continue to spout their nonsense hoping someone is stupid enough to buy it.


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    #29
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I actually agree with this but I find it strange that someone who values libertarianism so much as yourself could be OK with people in Europe essentially dictating economic policy for a sovereign nation like Ireland.


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    #30
    jacaranda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭jacaranda


    PHB wrote: »
    Where are the abortions, the federal republic and the new minimum wage?

    Irish abortions take place in the UK, watch this space to see the EU amassing more power, (this time using the fate of the Euro as the excuse), and the minimum wage is now seen as a very expensive mistake, responsible for much of our former manufacturing industry leaving Ireland and heading to eastern Europe or China.


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    #31
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,653 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    it will be interesting to see within the next 5-10 years, despite the assurance, if our corporation tax rate is revised upwards.

    was the ability of the EU to oversee our budget a provision of the Lisbon Treaty? if it wasn't, then can anyone really definitely dismiss the possibility that the above could happen?


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