SIPTU Fair Hotels Campaign

thebaldsoprano · 08-06-2010 12:15pm #1

SIPTU have launched an initiative to market hotels that treat their staff well and offer them collective bargaining. If a hotel passes SIPTU's criteria it gets a 'fair hotel' badge, union members are then encouraged to use these hotels.

It's an interesting change of tack given the recent shenanigans the public have had to endure at the hands of PS unions - this scheme gives people a choice. Not being a particular fan of unions in general, I was pleasantly surprised to read about this. Details of the scheme can be found here.

Could this be the start of a trend that will see unions becoming more aware of the customers that pay their members' wages?

Banned Account · 08-06-2010 12:47pm

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

SIPTU have launched an initiative to market hotels that treat their staff well and offer them collective bargaining. If a hotel passes SIPTU's criteria it gets a 'fair hotel' badge, union members are then encouraged to use these hotels.

It's an interesting change of tack given the recent shenanigans the public have had to endure at the hands of PS unions - this scheme gives people a choice. Not being a particular fan of unions in general, I was pleasantly surprised to read about this. Details of the scheme can be found here.

Could this be the start of a trend that will see unions becoming more aware of the customers that pay their members' wages?

Ever the cynic, I would see is as the start of a trend to try and get more members on the SIPTU books who will then pay the subscription fees which, interestingly enough haven't been reduced during the recession despite the low paid workers being out to the pin of their collars.

smokingman · 08-06-2010 12:51pm

Personally I think this is a great idea - a list of union hotels I can avoid - winner!

thebaldsoprano · 08-06-2010 1:08pm

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

Ever the cynic, I would see is as the start of a trend to try and get more members on the SIPTU books who will then pay the subscription fees which, interestingly enough haven't been reduced during the recession despite the low paid workers being out to the pin of their collars.

Of course they're trying to get more members, but what's interesting is the way they're going about it. They could go a more legal route - organise meetings with staff and make things messy if management refuse. Instead they're offering the business something in return. As long as the whole thing remains voluntary and they're not ordering members to boycott hotels outside the scheme, I'd see it as a step in the right direction.

skelliser · 08-06-2010 1:12pm

This has always been the case and is nothing new.
Iv been a member of Siptu in various private sector jobs over the years and every now and then we would get lists of hotels and places to stay offering deals etc.
Everyone wins, hotels get guests, employees get wages and deals.

Its nothing new but why let simple things like facts get in the way of bashing unions.

Gurgle · 08-06-2010 1:14pm

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

Instead they're offering the business something in return.

Whats that then?

Banned Account · 08-06-2010 1:18pm

skelliser wrote: »

Its nothing new but why let simple things like facts get in the way of bashing unions.

Would that include the fact that there are many non-unionised hotels that traet staff fairly yet despite this, the unions are attempting to keep business away from them - who wins in these hotels?

I just hate the way that the unions are dressing up their same auld shite in a nice Sunday frock and pretending they have anyone but themselves in mind.

thebaldsoprano · 08-06-2010 1:23pm

skelliser wrote: »

This has always been the case and is nothing new.
Iv been a member of Siptu in various private sector jobs over the years and every now and then we would get lists of hotels and places to stay offering deals etc.

What is new though is the marketing behind it. I'm not in a union and can get a list of hotels here. Those deals you describe are often offered to employees in larger companies, members of professional organisations, students etc. This is being pitched specifically around the fact that the workers in the hotel you're staying in are being treated well.

thebaldsoprano · 08-06-2010 1:26pm

Gurgle wrote: »

Whats that then?

A means to market their hotel to people who place some weight on how staff are treated. This could be reasonably expected to increase business.

Gurgle · 08-06-2010 2:28pm

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

A means to market their hotel to people who place some weight on how staff are treated. This could be reasonably expected to increase business.

Because they're on the 'Fair Hotels' website?
I can't see that making much of a difference to anyone planning a stay in Ireland.

And how does a hotel qualify as 'fair' in this case?

Winty · 08-06-2010 2:31pm

SIPTU is a business and needs more members.

Jack O'Connor, the boss is on €125,000 a year so he is keen to have the lowest paid workers in Ireland hand him money every week.

Permabear · 08-06-2010 2:42pm

This post has been deleted.

thebaldsoprano · 08-06-2010 2:50pm

Gurgle wrote: »

Because they're on the 'Fair Hotels' website?
I can't see that making much of a difference to anyone planning a stay in Ireland.

And how does a hotel qualify as 'fair' in this case?

Well, I'd imagine it would be marketed through the website, newsletters and word of mouth from their 200,000 members but I'm not in SIPTU so I'm not up to speed on the details. Also, it was only launched a week or so ago and it's not like they're marketing Modern Warfare 2. Time will tell how effective this turns out to be.

As for how a hotel qualifies as fair, it's SIPTU's initiative so I'd imagine they set the criteria.

Gurgle · 08-06-2010 3:01pm

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

it's SIPTU's initiative so I'd imagine they set the criteria.

Yeah, thats the part that would concern me if I thought I was ever going to hear of 'www.fairhotels.ie' again. It all smells like a SIPTU membership drive, and I've enough first hand experience of SIPTU's MO to be very wary.

I'd consider a hotel 'fair' if they pay all staff at least minimum wage and don't mess them around too much on shifts & schedules.

thebaldsoprano · 08-06-2010 3:07pm

Gurgle wrote: »

Yeah, thats the part that would concern me if I thought I was ever going to hear of 'www.fairhotels.ie' again. It all smells like a SIPTU membership drive, and I've enough first hand experience of SIPTU's MO to be very wary.

That's a fair point actually (pardon the pun

). I guess it would be better if 'fair hotels' had a broader scope that included more unions and employers' representatives as well.

ixoy · 08-06-2010 3:12pm

I'd also be concerned about how they'd handle the site for hotels in trouble. If a hotel is in financial difficulty and needs to cut staff or wages, would they immediately get kicked off the site until SIPTU agrees with everything (i.e. get their way)?

hotel worker · 29-06-2010 10:27pm

ixoy wrote: »

I'd also be concerned about how they'd handle the site for hotels in trouble. If a hotel is in financial difficulty and needs to cut staff or wages, would they immediately get kicked off the site until SIPTU agrees with everything (i.e. get their way)?

The idea of The fair Hotels is that any hotel that has a collective agreement with S.I.P.T.U. becomes a fair hotel. Therefore, wages would only be cut by agreement. This has already happened in some cases, so, no, these hotels would not be kicked off the site.

hotel worker · 29-06-2010 10:35pm

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

Ever the cynic, I would see is as the start of a trend to try and get more members on the SIPTU books who will then pay the subscription fees which, interestingly enough haven't been reduced during the recession despite the low paid workers being out to the pin of their collars.

Of course it may help to increase union membership. However, as a hotel worker for many years, I know what it's like for some people who are expected to work for minimum wage, including Sundays, Bank Holidays, Christmas etc. So, if by becoming members of S.I.P.T.U. it will help improve their working conditions, then I say go for it!!!

hotel worker · 29-06-2010 10:47pm

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

That's a fair point actually (pardon the pun ). I guess it would be better if 'fair hotels' had a broader scope that included more unions and employers' representatives as well.

Actually, employers were well represented at the launch of the "Fairhotels" as were other Unions, including Global Hotels co-ordinator (IUF), and David Begg, general secretary of Congresss. The intention is to advertise the initative worldwide through Unions. Personally I think it's a brilliant idea. Hope it's a success for all involved.

Gurgle · 30-06-2010 9:56am

hotel worker wrote: »

I know what it's like for some people who are expected to work for minimum wage, including Sundays, Bank Holidays, Christmas etc. So, if by becoming members of S.I.P.T.U. it will help improve their working conditions, then I say go for it!!!

Surely many of the positions (porters, cleaners, waiting staff etc.) in hotels are minimum wage jobs with low education requirements and high staff turnover.

If the Ts and Cs of employment aren't generous thats an incentive to get some education and training and move on to a better job, leaving the minimum wage position for the next person who needs it.

If you force hotels to over-pay for minimum wage positions, you'll keep us at the top of the list of most expensive destinations.

I have no time for SIPTU, they have shown over and over that they would rather drive an employer into the ground and leave its members redundant than negotiate a fair deal that allows the employer to be profitable and stay in business.

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-06-2010 10:41am

Gurgle wrote: »

Surely many of the positions (porters, cleaners, waiting staff etc.) in hotels are minimum wage jobs with low education requirements and high staff turnover.

If the Ts and Cs of employment aren't generous thats an incentive to get some education and training and move on to a better job, leaving the minimum wage position for the next person who needs it.

If you force hotels to over-pay for minimum wage positions, you'll keep us at the top of the list of most expensive destinations.

I have no time for SIPTU, they have shown over and over that they would rather drive an employer into the ground and leave its members redundant than negotiate a fair deal that allows the employer to be profitable and stay in business.

Hold on, is this irrelevent or is this going to kill hotels? Make up your mind.

SIPTU have long targetted the tourist industry as being rife with exploitation. There is a market for people who are willing to pay a bit more to stay in a hotel that treats its staff as human beings and this website caters for it.

The usual knee jerk right wingers are on complaining that the pesky unions are up to their old tricks in providing free advertising for companies that treat their staff well, the rotters.

Gurgle · 30-06-2010 12:26pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Hold on, is this irrelevent or is this going to kill hotels? Make up your mind.

Did I contradict myself somehow?
This 'fair hotels' propaganda is irrelevant.
SIPTU unfortunately aren't.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote:

a hotel that treats its staff as human beings

Hotel which treats staff as human beings /= SIPTU controlled hotel

OhNoYouDidn't wrote:

The usual knee jerk right wingers are on complaining that the pesky unions are up to their old tricks in providing free advertising for companies that treat their staff well, the rotters.

Thats certainly the first time I've ever been called a right-winger.

Maybe you'd like to explain why an unskilled position with minimal education requirements should pay more than minimum wage?

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-06-2010 12:59pm

Gurgle wrote: »

Did I contradict myself somehow?
This 'fair hotels' propaganda is irrelevant.
SIPTU unfortunately aren't.

Yes. This is either an irrelevent list or its not.

Gurgle wrote: »

Hotel which treats staff as human beings /= SIPTU controlled hotel

And SIPTU don't claim it is. If the hotel in question pays staff union wages, gives them union agreed conditions it gets a union stamp of approval. Whats hard to grasp?

Gurgle wrote: »

Thats certainly the first time I've ever been called a right-winger.

Using phrases like 'SIPTU contolled' and calling them unfortunate tends to box you into that corner. Ditto your line that 'unskilled' jobs should get minimum wage only. Its hardly a leftist position, now is it.

Gurgle wrote: »

Maybe you'd like to explain why an unskilled position with minimal education requirements should pay more than minimum wage?

Their wage is a derivitave of the value they add to the company and how important it is to retain them factoring in their ability to negotiate.

pitkan · 30-06-2010 1:27pm

Let me get this straight. I go to SIPTU website, find one of their fair hotels and patronise it. Surely the point of patronising any hotel is to receive good accomodation/food and service not because some well healed jackboot would like to increase his fat salary with more members. Why dont they publish fair hospitals/Govt. departments/fair transport etc. NO, wouldnt like to offend Clown.

P. Breathnach · 30-06-2010 1:54pm

pitkan wrote: »

Let me get this straight. I go to SIPTU website, find one of their fair hotels and patronise it. Surely the point of patronising any hotel is to receive good accomodation/food and service...

For some people, and I include myself in that group, there is more to it than that. It matters to me that the people who ensure that my accommodation, my meals, and general customer services are treated decently by their employer.

Insofar as my knowledge enables it, I choose to spend my money with businesses that operate on an ethical basis that is similar to my own. If a trade union is effectively telling me that a hotel treats its staff well, then that hotel is more likely to get my business.

Gurgle · 30-06-2010 1:59pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

your line that 'unskilled' jobs should get minimum wage only. Its hardly a leftist position, now is it.

My philosophy (however you care to label it) is that minimum wage is appropiate for any position where you could hire a 16yo on summer holidays and they can learn everything needed to perform the job within a week.

Its not pure communism, but hardly a hardline right wing stance either.

I am fully in favour of having a minimum wage, as this prevents exploitation. Without it, the value of unskilled labour drops below subsistence level. This was the case all over the hotel / bar / restaurant industries right up to the boom times. I've certainly worked at an hourly rate that was less than half the dole at the time.

Their wage is a derivitave of the value they add to the company and how important it is to retain them factoring in their ability to negotiate.

Exactly, the value added to the company by one particular porter / cleaner / waiter is minimal.
Hence: minimum wage.

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-06-2010 2:50pm

Gurgle wrote: »

Exactly, the value added to the company by one particular porter / cleaner / waiter is minimal.
Hence: minimum wage.

Yet in some places they can command more....

If we want to keep a tourist industry afloat, we need enthused and competent staff in tourist jobs and staying there. So that involves paying more than minimum wage.

Look at pubs. The unionised ones have older men who pour the pint and have a chat etc. Compare and contrast with the minimum wager in the so called super pubs. Which are the ones the tourists go to?

Gurgle · 30-06-2010 4:16pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Yet in some places they can command more....

The quality of the establishment is reflected both in the wages they pay to their staff and the rates they charge. The higher wages will attract better staff.

But we're not talking about quality, this is about whether a hotel is 'fair'.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

If we want to keep a tourist industry afloat, we need enthused and competent staff in tourist jobs and staying there. So that involves paying more than minimum wage.

I have never heard staff listed as a negative in Irelands tourism industry, but high prices is top of the list in every report. Its pretty clear prices coming down would benefit the industry more than more 'enthused and competent' staff.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Look at pubs. The unionised ones have older men who pour the pint and have a chat etc. Compare and contrast with the minimum wager in the so called super pubs. Which are the ones the tourists go to?

Neither, the vast majority of pubs outside the pale are family owned and run. And since the subject comes up, so are a lot of hotels. Should they be excluded from the 'fair' list because the minimum wage night porter isn't in a union?
Will the SIPTU list take into account that he'll be taking over as general manager in 10 years when the parents retire? That sounds fair to me...

Scofflaw · 30-06-2010 4:36pm

Jaysoose (and anyone else inclined the same way) - PS-bashing posts that exist purely to stir are trolling. Penalties for offence will escalate rapidly.

moderately,
Scofflaw

P. Breathnach · 30-06-2010 4:40pm

Gurgle wrote: »

... I have never heard staff listed as a negative in Irelands tourism industry...

I have. Often.

And even more often I have heard the attitude of staff mentioned as an important positive. In general, I would suppose that staff who feel that they are well-treated by their employers are more likely to draw the positive comments.

hotel worker · 30-06-2010 9:07pm

Gurgle wrote: »

Surely many of the positions (porters, cleaners, waiting staff etc.) in hotels are minimum wage jobs with low education requirements and high staff turnover.

If the Ts and Cs of employment aren't generous thats an incentive to get some education and training and move on to a better job, leaving the minimum wage position for the next person who needs it.

If you force hotels to over-pay for minimum wage positions, you'll keep us at the top of the list of most expensive destinations.

I have no time for SIPTU, they have shown over and over that they would rather drive an employer into the ground and leave its members redundant than negotiate a fair deal that allows the employer to be profitable and stay in business.

So, do I understand you to mean that all Hotel workers are of a low education standard and therefore should not be paid a living wage. Some of my colleagues (waiters included), were educated in the likes of France and Switzerland etc., so that they could give the highest standard of service. In turn, the owners of the Hotel benifited from this and made their money, and we were all able to achieve a decent standard of living.
It's not as simple as saying pay all hotel workers minimum wage, there are lots of reasoons why our prices are too high. GREED springs to mind.

hotel worker · 30-06-2010 9:26pm

Gurgle wrote: »

My philosophy (however you care to label it) is that minimum wage is appropiate for any position where you could hire a 16yo on summer holidays and they can learn everything needed to perform the job within a week.

Its not pure communism, but hardly a hardline right wing stance either.

I am fully in favour of having a minimum wage, as this prevents exploitation. Without it, the value of unskilled labour drops below subsistence level. This was the case all over the hotel / bar / restaurant industries right up to the boom times. I've certainly worked at an hourly rate that was less than half the dole at the time.

Exactly, the value added to the company by one particular porter / cleaner / waiter is minimal.
Hence: minimum wage.

The logical conclusion to that is that any worker in a multinational company adds minimal value. Your logic would hold through for most Public and Private sector workers also. So, maybe we should all work for mimimum wage!

deadbloke · 30-06-2010 11:14pm

It's not always about the money. I've worked in hotels where I made a very decent wage, but left to work elsewhere for better hours/conditions/etc but for less money. I've never been a member of a union and don't intend to join one either.

Look at pubs. The unionised ones have older men who pour the pint and have a chat etc. Compare and contrast with the minimum wager in the so called super pubs. Which are the ones the tourists go to?

This is a ridiculous statement.

Gurgle · 01-07-2010 9:29am

hotel worker wrote: »

So, do I understand you to mean that all Hotel workers are of a low education standard and therefore should not be paid a living wage.

No, not at all.
I'm making no comments or assumptions regarding the people doing the jobs, I'm talking about the skills / education involved in doing it.

People are paid for the job they do, not the job they're qualified to do.
Minimum wage is a living wage, thats the point in it.

It's not as simple as saying pay all hotel workers minimum wage, there are lots of reasoons why our prices are too high. GREED springs to mind.

'Greed' doesn't neccessarily mean high prices, especially in an over-crowded industry. High costs mean high prices.

Gurgle · 01-07-2010 9:34am

hotel worker wrote: »

The logical conclusion to that is that any worker in a multinational company adds minimal value.

Can you replace an average worker in the morning without any adverse effect on production?
I doubt it. The lowest skilled (as in least amount of education and training required to do it) job is a machine operator, which will take at least a few weeks to become competent.

hotel worker wrote:

Your logic would hold through for most Public and Private sector workers also. So, maybe we should all work for mimimum wage!

Then you're not following my logic, or else don't have any idea what most people do to earn their living.

Jaysoose · 01-07-2010 11:37am

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Hold on, is this irrelevent or is this going to kill hotels? Make up your mind.

SIPTU have long targetted the tourist industry as being rife with exploitation. There is a market for people who are willing to pay a bit more to stay in a hotel that treats its staff as human beings and this website caters for it.

The usual knee jerk right wingers are on complaining that the pesky unions are up to their old tricks in providing free advertising for companies that treat their staff well, the rotters.

Im sorry but this couldnt be further from the truth, people are looking for value more than ever when looking for hotels to stay in, having unions meddling in a market and increasing the running costs etc will send hotels to the wall quicker than they are already going.

At the end of the day people choose to work as waiters/barpeople/housekeepin etc and they are paid accordingly as per the skills required to do the job, inflating wages in this sector is not a good way to go.

P. Breathnach · 01-07-2010 12:09pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

... There is a market for people who are willing to pay a bit more to stay in a hotel that treats its staff as human beings and this website caters for it....

Jaysoose wrote: »

Im sorry but this couldnt be further from the truth...

As a matter of personal policy I choose not to deal with firms that treat their staff badly (insofar as it is feasible, with reliable knowledge being the greatest problem). While oddballs like me might be a minority, we might represent the margin between success and failure for some of those firms.

OhNoYouDidn't · 01-07-2010 12:12pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

As a matter of personal policy I choose not to deal with firms that treat their staff badly (insofar as it is feasible, with reliable knowledge being the greatest problem). While oddballs like me might be a minority, we might represent the margin between success and failure for some of those firms.

Exactly. I try and avoid flying with Ryanair whenever possible for example.

There is a market for this, the hotels are in agreement, the only objections to this are assine anti-union griping. And that will happen regardless.

P. Breathnach · 01-07-2010 12:21pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Exactly. I try and avoid flying with Ryanair whenever possible for example....

We haven't made a big impression there!

OhNoYouDidn't · 01-07-2010 12:27pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

We haven't made a big impression there!

True!

But this idea that everything has to be cheap and nasty is ridicilious.

Not every resteraunt has to be a McDonalds. Fine, fast food outlets employ minimum wagers. Thats the nature of the beast. But if I go to Shanahans or Patrick Guibalds I would expect that the staff are better qualified, better capable and better paid. Ditto paying up for a 4 or 5 star hotel.

No-one actually objects to this concept, but the right wingers are only giving off here because its SIPTU involved. If this was an IBEC/ISME or Failte Ireland scheme, it would be a cracking idea, higlighting the top end hotels available to wealthier tourists.

Gurgle · 01-07-2010 1:07pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

As a matter of personal policy I choose not to deal with firms that treat their staff badly (insofar as it is feasible, with reliable knowledge being the greatest problem).

There are several different issues being confused here:
Hotels that treat their staff badly
Hotels that pay low wages
Hotels that make the SIPTU approved list

If there was a way to find out if a hotel treated its staff badly, I would avoid that hotel.

Paying low wages is not the same thing, and I wouldn't consider it to be a reason to avoid a hotel.

My experience of SIPTU means that I won't form any opinion about a hotel based on it being included in or excluded from their list.

Gurgle · 01-07-2010 1:08pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Exactly. I try and avoid flying with Ryanair whenever possible for example.

Apparently I've missed something.
Is there a problem with how Ryanair treat / pay their staff?

Jaysoose · 01-07-2010 3:31pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

As a matter of personal policy I choose not to deal with firms that treat their staff badly (insofar as it is feasible, with reliable knowledge being the greatest problem). While oddballs like me might be a minority, we might represent the margin between success and failure for some of those firms.

Using creative quoting to change the context of my post so you can take some moral high ground stance is very poor indeed. Why did you leave out the second half of the sentence? I never once said i agree with staff being treated badly so would you care to explain why you needed to imply that i did?

**Complete and original sentence below**

"Im sorry but this couldnt be further from the truth, people are looking for value more than ever when looking for hotels to stay in,"

OhNoYouDidn't · 01-07-2010 4:13pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

"Im sorry but this couldnt be further from the truth, people are looking for value more than ever when looking for hotels to stay in,"

And some also like to know that their 'good value' isn't at the expense of others. If this isn't for you, it isn't for you.

If the Church decided to do a list of hotels run by Catholics with pictures of Mary on the wall and don't serve meat on a Friday, good for them. Makes no odds to me.

Jaysoose · 01-07-2010 4:25pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And some also like to know that their 'good value' isn't at the expense of others. If this isn't for you, it isn't for you.

If the Church decided to do a list of hotels run by Catholics with pictures of Mary on the wall and don't serve meat on a Friday, good for them. Makes no odds to me.

Your making a huge assumption about me to make some obtuse point, any chance you can stick to the facts. Is it not a fact that people look for value when booking hotels? Show me were i came down on the side of staff being treated badly...bet you cant.

OhNoYouDidn't · 01-07-2010 4:48pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

Your making a huge assumption about me to make some obtuse point, any chance you can stick to the facts. Is it not a fact that people look for value when booking hotels? Show me were i came down on the side of staff being treated badly...bet you cant.

I'm not saying you support staff being treated badly.

Some people look for the cheapest deal they can get, some don't. Some people will use this list for ethical reasons, some won't. Thats not to say that you are an evil capitalist pig if you don't use the website.

Jaysoose · 01-07-2010 4:53pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I'm not saying you support staff being treated badly.

Some people look for the cheapest deal they can get, some don't. Some people will use this list for ethical reasons, some won't. Thats not to say that you are an evil capitalist pig if you don't use the website.

You were certainly trying to imply as much.

Im all honesty i wouldnt use a website promoted by the public sector unions as i believe they are contributing to our downfall as a nation and they are only interested in their own agenda at the expnse of everybody else. The sceptic in me sees that this initiative could possily be a recruitment drive for the unions so they can keep the subs coming in..but thats just me.

sceptre · 02-07-2010 12:56am

I've deleted a series of silly handbagging posts. Not here, thank you. Personalising a discussion isn't allowed here. If you've a problem with a post, report it, don't act as your own vigilante to right your most grievous wrong.

On topic posts are welcome. Willy-waving ego posts aren't. Move on with the topic please.

/mod

FTA69 · 02-07-2010 1:15pm

Willy-waving ego posts aren't.

No willy-waving? This site has gone to the dogs I say!

On topic though, when I came back from England and started a college course I got a part-time job in a prominent city-centre hotel here in Cork. Being the good socialist I am I joined SIPTU as it was the established shop union (shower of useless bastards that they are). Put simply the conditions within the hotel were and still are today an utter disgrace. The union and the shop steward was undermined at every stage by the management, long standing staff were put on three-day weeks (the recession being cited) while the hotel simultaneously hired new staff for the same position. We were also told in our induction that no Travellers were to be served on the premises due to "personal hygeine" issues, the staff dinners sometimes had mould on them etc etc etc.

The fact that a job may be unskilled and have a high-staff turnover does not equate with a God-given right to attempt to disrupt a worker's right to participate in a union and nor does it give an employer the right to institute whatever regime they choose in a race to the bottom.

While nominally I would agree with SIPTU's position of highlighting this issue, they as much as anyone else ignored the low-paid private sector worker for years and instead concentrated on shoring up social partnership and the public sector. And then they p*ss and moan how there is now a "divide" when they perpetuated one as much as anyone else. I'll never forget the time the union bigwigs had a dinner in the same hotel, p*ssed out their skulls quaffing wine at €20 a bottle and a four course meal. And there was me paying union dues out of €8.65 an hour. Gas stuff.

So in short, I'm all for unions but I won't hold my f*cking breath that SIPTU will do anything about it.

Gurgle · 02-07-2010 1:34pm

FTA69 wrote: »

a prominent city-centre hotel here in Cork

Without naming the hotel, can you check if its on SIPTU's 'fair hotels' list (and let us know of course)?

FTA69 · 03-07-2010 5:27pm

Well lo and behold that hotel is on the list of "fair hotels"! A hotel whose management has made a massive effort to undermine the union, roll back previous shop agreements and sideline union personnel while hiring new staff on lesser conditions. And here we have the spineless crowd in SIPTU lauding them and others as a crowd "who take collective bargaining seriously." Hilarious.

Personally I'd rather work in a North Korean labour camp than that place again (although I wish I hadn't said that and other hilariously witty comments on their Facebook fanpage while blind drunk last week. F*ck all chance of a reference now I suppose.)

At the end of the day SIPTU have been the source of thier own undoing due to their failure to make serious attempts to unionise the construction and services industries during the boom. I remember working on a site when I was 17 and seeing some awful practices and then later reading about SIPTU going to bat for some fella in An Post getting a hundred grand a year for 80 days work. They as much as anyone jumped on the consensus bandwagon and in the process neutralised the point of a union's existance, while simultaneously embarrassing themselves with participation in gravy-train quangos on FÁS.

Even today Jack O'Connor bleats on about the "pain" of the "workers" and he's creaming over €100,000 a year.

James Connolly would be spinning in his grave.

SIPTU Fair Hotels Campaign

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