Rangers FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/2013

Pompey Magnus · 31-01-2012 8:30am

Jelle1880 wrote: »

This is something that has been claimed a long time ago, it was denied at the time and still being denied now.
Not surprisingly they are only letting people speak out who have, in one way or another, been forcibly removed from the club by Whyte.

As for the article, it's the usual.

'It's believed', 'could be',...

Really? I have just seen the back page and it says "Ibrox chief admits he has sold four years of season tickets to keep club running". There is no ambiguity or hiding behind unnamed "sources" there.

If the club really are still denying it then the Daily Record will presumably be hearing from Craig Whyte's lawyers very soon as that headline is very specific about where it is getting its information from.

Jelle1880 · 31-01-2012 8:39am

The article itself is a few pages long, and definitely is more rumour than fact.

Pompey Magnus · 31-01-2012 8:50am

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The article itself is a few pages long, and definitely is more rumour than fact.

Thing is though, more and more of these rumours are being shown to be true and if that back page headline is right then it will be yet another instance of Whyte misleading (if not downright lying to) the Rangers supporters. How much of that £25 million transfer kitty promised by Whyte has Ally at his disposal now? Is he still claiming he is confident Rangers will have no liability in the tax case? Did he really not sell off 4 years worth of season tickets?

bobbysands81 · 31-01-2012 8:52am

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The article itself is a few pages long, and definitely is more rumour than fact.

You guys are unreal!!! Your unquestioning subservience is hilarious and is putting you so much deeper in the mire.

bobbysands81 · 31-01-2012 8:52am

bobbysands81 · 31-01-2012 9:03am

Not a hope in hell that Celtic fans would have fallen for this charlatan. He came from nowhere, this so called "self made billionaire", the only records detailing his finances show him as a disqualified director! No trail of money behind him and anyone to whom he owes money has to take him to court to get it. He promises all but has delivered nothing, where's the £25m war chest he promised? It doesn't exist and now it seems that he's used your money for season tickets for the next 4 years to buy the club!!!

Have you guys any idea of the downsizing this is going to cause regardless of the Big Tax case.

More Knighton than Whyte Knight... all three monkeys rolled into one. Whatever happens folks, never believe Timmy.

bobbysands81 · 31-01-2012 9:05am

Apparently Whyte also under investigation over non payment of VAT since he took over at RFC as well. £5m of VAT apparently owed. You guys should be asking how does any lending company have a guarantee they'll get this money back given your future is shagged if Big Tax Case goes against you. Has Whyte mortgaged Ibrox or Murray Park??? If he did then surely this would have to appear in your audited accounts??? Oh wait... what audited accounts.

All this is on top of not paying National Insurance on wages.

When's the Penny Arcade going to drop!

Pompey Magnus · 31-01-2012 9:20am

So according to the record Rangers now owe Ticketus £26 million with a potential £49 million tax bill...£75 million of debt, ouch.

bobbysands81 · 31-01-2012 9:20am

Rangers owner Craig Whyte admits he sold four years' worth of season tickets to keep Ibrox club running

Jan 31 2012 Exclusive by James Traynor & Keith Jackson

Craig Whyte Image 5

CRAIG WHYTE sold off four years of fans' money to help fund his Rangers buy-out, it was revealed last night.

And Record Sport can also reveal high-ranking HMRC officials are investigating alleged non-payment of VAT since Whyte gained control of the club last May.

Current director Dave King and former board member Paul Murray have been quizzed by the tax authorities as part of their enquiry which has revealed £24.4million has been borrowed against future season-tickets sales.

Tranches of tickets over four seasons have been sold to Ticketus, a London-based group linked to Octopus, and it's claimed this deal helped finance Whyte's operating costs after the takeover.

Whyte himself last night confirmed he had sold off the tickets but denied he used the money to pay off Lloyds Bank. He insisted the £18m for the bank came from one of his companies.

When Whyte took over Rangers' debt was £18m to Lloyds Bank and their wage bill had been reduced to £14m but it is believed the club could owe much more than that.

It's thought the current debt is £21m to Ticketus plus £5m VAT on the ticket deal. But there could be other bills due and of course Rangers are awaiting the final verdict on their £49m EBT (Employee Benefit Trust) tax case.

Last night Whyte insisted the Ticketus deal was normal practice for clubs and his spokesman said: "The suggestion that the Rangers takeover was funded through financing arrangements on season tickets is categorically untrue.

"Rangers FC is no different in that it has a working capital facility with Ticketus, as have many, many other clubs. It is a common arrangement in football. This facility was in place at Ibrox long before the takeover."

The EBT ruling is due within weeks and if Rangers lose they will be facing financial meltdown.

Their debt could then be in the £75m region with liquidation a stark reality.

But many now fear Rangers could be tipped over the abyss and into some kind of insolvency even before their Judgment Day over the tax case.

Rangers fans put their faith in Whyte believing he would get rid of the club's debt and also provide transfer money for manager Ally McCoist, who has been an impoverished bystander during this transfer window.

But the Ibrox club's support will be shocked by the detail of invoices and letters now in the revenue's possession. It is claimed these show Whyte sold off massive chunks of Rangers' future season-ticket sales.

And former board member Murray believes the takeover wouldn't have been possible without the fans, even though they had no idea future tickets had been sold off to raise extra cash.

Murray said: "These documents prove to me that Rangers fans have actually paid and will continue to pay for the sale of their club."

He added that HMRC have told him they are also due VAT, as much as £5m, on the deal with Ticketus and insists he has seen details of letters and invoices held by HMRC.

Murray claims that in one of the documents, a letter dated March 8, 2011 and signed by Whyte, it is alleged he made it clear that through Wavetower, his bid vehicle at the time, he would be entering into a deal to sell the season tickets to a company called Ticketus.

They are part of London-based Octopus, a perfectly legitimate lender who grant immediate loans based on future ticket sales. Record Sport managed to speak with most of the people who were on the Rangers board at the time of the takeover and they insist they knew nothing about the sale of season tickets. In fact they tried to ring-fence supporters' money.

The papers, which are being pored over by HMRC officials, are said to reveal borrowing against ticket sales for seasons 2011-12, 12-13 and 13-14 that Whyte was able to raise £24.4m.

Then on June 27 he was hit with the first of his repayment bills from Ticketus, who were demanding a total of £9.5m, their share of that summer's season-ticket sales. Whyte could only come up with £3.5m cash and to fill the shortfall mortgaged off part of season 2014-15 to the value of £6m.

Opening in March last year Murray claims the detail contained within HMRC's file is extensive and explosive.

This is the timetable and interpretation of events: March 8, 2011: A letter from Liberty Capital (one of Whyte's companies) is signed by Whyte and addressed to Ticketus.

In the letter Whyte confirms the intention to sell Rangers' season tickets to Ticketus.

April 7: Lawyers on behalf of Ticketus deposit £24.4m into a Collyer Bristow (lawyers for Whyte's bid) client account. A further £2m was placed in the same account from a company called JLT Benefit Solutions with £1m from the Merchant House Group, a firm of corporate finance specialists with whom Whyte is closely linked.

May 9: An agreement was entered into between Ticketus and Rangers to sell the season tickets.This was just three days after the takeover date of May 6. The bank was repaid the £18m.

June 27: Ticketus raised an invoice to Rangers seeking first repayment of £9.5m on their agreement. Rangers paid only £3.5m of that amount in cash and borrowed £6m more from Ticketus by selling another portion of 2013-14 as well as a portion of season 2014-15. Analysts stress there is nothing illegal in selling future ticket sales. In fact, it is common practice in British football, although the problems encountered by Leeds United and Newcastle United, who both borrowed too often and too much, are proof of the dangers.

Whyte has never declared the deals with Ticketus although HMRC documents suggest he has cashed in on fan loyalty.

The tax officials quizzed Murray and South African-based King, who was on conference call, as recently as last Friday morning.

They insisted they had no knowledge of what had been happening and Murray, who last year offered to take the club off Lloyds' books and invest £15m in the team in a last-ditch attempt to prevent Whyte from getting the club, said he couldn't believe what he was reading when presented with the HMRC file.

"HMRC asked for a meeting at the end of last week to find out what knowledge I, having been a director of the club at the time, had of these transactions prior to the takeover," Murray said.

"I knew nothing about this and although I have been questioned by HMRC and seen some especially revealing documents which are in their possession, it is still very hard to take in what has been going on.

"Collyer Bristow were acting for Craig Whyte during the takeover and I have been shown their client account, from the opening of it until today.

"I've also seen all invoices from Ticketus to Rangers and Rangers to Ticketus supporting all these actions.

"I can't believe Rangers have been handed over in this way.

"Remember also, the Independent Board, set up to make sure any potential buyers were capable of making the purchase and then funding the business, asked repeatedly where Craig Whyte was getting the money.

"He said it was from his own personal wealth and through Liberty Capital, which he insisted he owned 100 per cent, in the British Virgin Islands.

"Plans were being made to sell off future ticket sales but the directors were never told. This was all being done behind our backs."

King was also shocked to learn of the seasonticket sale and said: "Securitising season tickets is a valid seasonal funding strategy to smooth cash flows within the year - but no longer."

Whyte's spokesman added: "The takeover team instigated discussions with Ticketus prior to the takeover because the relationship with Rangers was already in place and the new owners wanted to continue it.

"They were clear from the outset they wanted to ensure there were robust working capital provisions in place that could deal with the many financial challenges the club faces.

"The takeover was funded by one of Mr Whyte's companies. Several months before then - and long before any discussions with Ticketus - Mr Whyte was asked to provide proof of funds for the takeover and he did that to the satisfaction of the previous owners, Lloyds Banking Group and professional advisers."

lubo_moravcik · 31-01-2012 9:26am

Sky Sports News currently at rangers training ground, isn't it called Murray Park or is that a different place?

Jelle1880 · 31-01-2012 9:28am

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You guys are unreal!!! Your unquestioning subservience is hilarious and is putting you so much deeper in the mire.

Last night Whyte insisted the Ticketus deal was normal practice for clubs and his spokesman said: "The suggestion that the Rangers takeover was funded through financing arrangements on season tickets is categorically untrue.

"Rangers FC is no different in that it has a working capital facility with Ticketus, as have many, many other clubs. It is a common arrangement in football. This facility was in place at Ibrox long before the takeover."

I've heard before that this is indeed a standard way to work, and it only becomes a problem if we can not pay it back.
If I'm correct we paid Jelavic' transfer from Rapid with Ticketus money too.

However, if Whyte has indeed lied then he's ****ed (And the club with him).

Also, I'm baffled as to how, once again, Murray escapes any form of criticism.

lubo: I prefer Auchenhowie

edit: You still going on about that 25m warchest ?
Are we 2016 already then ?
if you add up the numbers from transfers and contract extensions then we're pretty much around the 5m mark now.

lubo_moravcik · 31-01-2012 9:33am

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Rangers owner Craig Whyte admits he sold four years' worth of season tickets to keep Ibrox club running

Jan 31 2012 Exclusive by James Traynor & Keith Jackson

Craig Whyte Image 5

CRAIG WHYTE sold off four years of fans' money to help fund his Rangers buy-out, it was revealed last night.

And Record Sport can also reveal high-ranking HMRC officials are investigating alleged non-payment of VAT since Whyte gained control of the club last May.

Current director Dave King and former board member Paul Murray have been quizzed by the tax authorities as part of their enquiry which has revealed £24.4million has been borrowed against future season-tickets sales.

Tranches of tickets over four seasons have been sold to Ticketus, a London-based group linked to Octopus, and it's claimed this deal helped finance Whyte's operating costs after the takeover.

Whyte himself last night confirmed he had sold off the tickets but denied he used the money to pay off Lloyds Bank. He insisted the £18m for the bank came from one of his companies.

When Whyte took over Rangers' debt was £18m to Lloyds Bank and their wage bill had been reduced to £14m but it is believed the club could owe much more than that.

It's thought the current debt is £21m to Ticketus plus £5m VAT on the ticket deal. But there could be other bills due and of course Rangers are awaiting the final verdict on their £49m EBT (Employee Benefit Trust) tax case.

Last night Whyte insisted the Ticketus deal was normal practice for clubs and his spokesman said: "The suggestion that the Rangers takeover was funded through financing arrangements on season tickets is categorically untrue.

"Rangers FC is no different in that it has a working capital facility with Ticketus, as have many, many other clubs. It is a common arrangement in football. This facility was in place at Ibrox long before the takeover."

The EBT ruling is due within weeks and if Rangers lose they will be facing financial meltdown.

Their debt could then be in the £75m region with liquidation a stark reality.

But many now fear Rangers could be tipped over the abyss and into some kind of insolvency even before their Judgment Day over the tax case.

Rangers fans put their faith in Whyte believing he would get rid of the club's debt and also provide transfer money for manager Ally McCoist, who has been an impoverished bystander during this transfer window.

But the Ibrox club's support will be shocked by the detail of invoices and letters now in the revenue's possession. It is claimed these show Whyte sold off massive chunks of Rangers' future season-ticket sales.

And former board member Murray believes the takeover wouldn't have been possible without the fans, even though they had no idea future tickets had been sold off to raise extra cash.

Murray said: "These documents prove to me that Rangers fans have actually paid and will continue to pay for the sale of their club."

He added that HMRC have told him they are also due VAT, as much as £5m, on the deal with Ticketus and insists he has seen details of letters and invoices held by HMRC.

Murray claims that in one of the documents, a letter dated March 8, 2011 and signed by Whyte, it is alleged he made it clear that through Wavetower, his bid vehicle at the time, he would be entering into a deal to sell the season tickets to a company called Ticketus.

They are part of London-based Octopus, a perfectly legitimate lender who grant immediate loans based on future ticket sales. Record Sport managed to speak with most of the people who were on the Rangers board at the time of the takeover and they insist they knew nothing about the sale of season tickets. In fact they tried to ring-fence supporters' money.

The papers, which are being pored over by HMRC officials, are said to reveal borrowing against ticket sales for seasons 2011-12, 12-13 and 13-14 that Whyte was able to raise £24.4m.

Then on June 27 he was hit with the first of his repayment bills from Ticketus, who were demanding a total of £9.5m, their share of that summer's season-ticket sales. Whyte could only come up with £3.5m cash and to fill the shortfall mortgaged off part of season 2014-15 to the value of £6m.

Opening in March last year Murray claims the detail contained within HMRC's file is extensive and explosive.

This is the timetable and interpretation of events: March 8, 2011: A letter from Liberty Capital (one of Whyte's companies) is signed by Whyte and addressed to Ticketus.

In the letter Whyte confirms the intention to sell Rangers' season tickets to Ticketus.

April 7: Lawyers on behalf of Ticketus deposit £24.4m into a Collyer Bristow (lawyers for Whyte's bid) client account. A further £2m was placed in the same account from a company called JLT Benefit Solutions with £1m from the Merchant House Group, a firm of corporate finance specialists with whom Whyte is closely linked.

May 9: An agreement was entered into between Ticketus and Rangers to sell the season tickets.This was just three days after the takeover date of May 6. The bank was repaid the £18m.

June 27: Ticketus raised an invoice to Rangers seeking first repayment of £9.5m on their agreement. Rangers paid only £3.5m of that amount in cash and borrowed £6m more from Ticketus by selling another portion of 2013-14 as well as a portion of season 2014-15. Analysts stress there is nothing illegal in selling future ticket sales. In fact, it is common practice in British football, although the problems encountered by Leeds United and Newcastle United, who both borrowed too often and too much, are proof of the dangers.

Whyte has never declared the deals with Ticketus although HMRC documents suggest he has cashed in on fan loyalty.

The tax officials quizzed Murray and South African-based King, who was on conference call, as recently as last Friday morning.

They insisted they had no knowledge of what had been happening and Murray, who last year offered to take the club off Lloyds' books and invest £15m in the team in a last-ditch attempt to prevent Whyte from getting the club, said he couldn't believe what he was reading when presented with the HMRC file.

"HMRC asked for a meeting at the end of last week to find out what knowledge I, having been a director of the club at the time, had of these transactions prior to the takeover," Murray said.

"I knew nothing about this and although I have been questioned by HMRC and seen some especially revealing documents which are in their possession, it is still very hard to take in what has been going on.

"Collyer Bristow were acting for Craig Whyte during the takeover and I have been shown their client account, from the opening of it until today.

"I've also seen all invoices from Ticketus to Rangers and Rangers to Ticketus supporting all these actions.

"I can't believe Rangers have been handed over in this way.

"Remember also, the Independent Board, set up to make sure any potential buyers were capable of making the purchase and then funding the business, asked repeatedly where Craig Whyte was getting the money.

"He said it was from his own personal wealth and through Liberty Capital, which he insisted he owned 100 per cent, in the British Virgin Islands.

"Plans were being made to sell off future ticket sales but the directors were never told. This was all being done behind our backs."

King was also shocked to learn of the seasonticket sale and said: "Securitising season tickets is a valid seasonal funding strategy to smooth cash flows within the year - but no longer."

Whyte's spokesman added: "The takeover team instigated discussions with Ticketus prior to the takeover because the relationship with Rangers was already in place and the new owners wanted to continue it.

"They were clear from the outset they wanted to ensure there were robust working capital provisions in place that could deal with the many financial challenges the club faces.

"The takeover was funded by one of Mr Whyte's companies. Several months before then - and long before any discussions with Ticketus - Mr Whyte was asked to provide proof of funds for the takeover and he did that to the satisfaction of the previous owners, Lloyds Banking Group and professional advisers."

PauloMN · 31-01-2012 10:18am

Jelle1880 wrote: »

...and it only becomes a problem if we can not pay it back.

Looks like it might be a problem so!

Have to say, I've completely mixed feelings about this whole thing tbh. On one hand, I don't give a jot about Rangers, in fact I probably dislike them almost as much as Hearts (yep, I dislike Hearts more) - so part of me says "cheerio", karma, you reap what you sow etc..

Yet on the other hand, I don't think it would be a good thing to see Rangers fold, for a number of reasons - for Celtic as a club, and for the decent Rangers fans. The impact on the already poor TV money we get, and sponsorship deals, would likely kill another few clubs in the SPL. The level of investment we currently see in our own playing staff would be much reduced, as without a strong challenge from Rangers, it would not be required to the same degree. As far as I'm concerned, that could spell the end of European football for a long long time for us - we're already hanging by a thread on that front.

Make no mistake lads, while this is obviously bad news for Rangers, it ain't great news for us either. (Not that I'm saying we shouldn't enjoy a bit of banter with the skint bassas though

).

bobbysands81 · 31-01-2012 10:22am

PauloMN wrote: »

Looks like it might be a problem so!

Have to say, I've completely mixed feelings about this whole thing tbh. On one hand, I don't give a jot about Rangers, in fact I probably dislike them almost as much as Hearts (yep, I dislike Hearts more) - so part of me says "cheerio", karma, you reap what you sow etc..

Yet on the other hand, I don't think it would be a good thing to see Rangers fold, for a number of reasons - for Celtic as a club, and for the decent Rangers fans. The impact on the already poor TV money we get, and sponsorship deals, would likely kill another few clubs in the SPL. The level of investment we currently see in our own playing staff would be much reduced, as without a strong challenge from Rangers, it would not be required to the same degree. As far as I'm concerned, that could spell the end of European football for a long long time for us - we're already hanging by a thread on that front.

Make no mistake lads, while this is obviously bad news for Rangers, it ain't great news for us either. (Not that I'm saying we shouldn't enjoy a bit of banter with the skint bassas though ).

I both agree and disagree...

I firmly believe it's not in our interest for Rangers to go to the wall but, and specifically I mean this for the Tax Case, if they are found guilty then they need to be punished for the intentional financial doping that won them titles and increased their turnover by tens of millions.

Rangers on their knees for many years would be a very welcome prospect.

bamboozle · 31-01-2012 11:00am

when the daily record are starting to turn on Whyte something serious must be wrong...

Is whyte still planning on sueing the BBC for the programme they did on him?

Jelle1880 · 31-01-2012 11:08am

bamboozle wrote: »

when the daily record are starting to turn on Whyte something serious must be wrong...

Is whyte still planning on sueing the BBC for the programme they did on him?

Aye, because it would be the first time ?

Tiocfaidh Armani · 31-01-2012 11:52am

Bye, Bye, Rangers!

PauloMN · 31-01-2012 11:57am

bobbysands81 wrote: »

if they are found guilty then they need to be punished for the intentional financial doping that won them titles and increased their turnover by tens of millions.

Not arguing that point Bobby, I agree that punishment for dodging tax needs to be severe.

My point is while I don't care about Rangers, anything that negatively affects Celtic (which this no doubt will to some extent) is not something I especially welcome.

Tiocfaidh Armani · 31-01-2012 12:00pm

PauloMN wrote: »

Not arguing that point Bobby, I agree that punishment for dodging tax needs to be severe.

My point is while I don't care about Rangers, anything that negatively affects Celtic (which this no doubt will to some extent) is not something I especially welcome.

WHATEVER PART OF CELTIC RELIES ON RANCID FC I'M MORE THAN WILLING TO LET DIE!

BYE BYE, COULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED TO A NICER MOB!

PauloMN · 31-01-2012 12:05pm

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

WHATEVER PART OF CELTIC RELIES ON RANCID FC I'M MORE THAN WILLING TO LET DIE!

BYE BYE, COULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED TO A NICER MOB!

Careful what you wish for dude. I'd rather have them survive in some form than face watching a sub-standard Celtic side made up of SPL journey-men not qualifying for Europe season after season.

If Rangers were to become extinct in any form (which won't happen), the only thing that could keep Celtic from suffering would be to get out of the SPL. If they died and we couldn't move elsewhere, it wouldn't be great for us let's face it.

Jelle1880 · 31-01-2012 12:06pm

TA's true nature starting to shine through

Pompey Magnus · 31-01-2012 12:16pm

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

WHATEVER PART OF CELTIC RELIES ON RANCID FC I'M MORE THAN WILLING TO LET DIE!

BYE BYE, COULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED TO A NICER MOB!

They aren't quite dead yet you know!

Tiocfaidh Armani · 31-01-2012 12:18pm

PauloMN wrote: »

Careful what you wish for dude. I'd rather have them survive in some form than face watching a sub-standard Celtic side made up of SPL journey-men not qualifying for Europe season after season.

If Rangers were to become extinct in any form (which won't happen), the only thing that could keep Celtic from suffering would be to get out of the SPL. If they died and we couldn't move elsewhere, it wouldn't be great for us let's face it.

When we were off the radar for many years in the early 90's how did they fare? Not too badly. Let them die.

TA's true nature starting to shine through

Yes, I hate Rangers FC. I never hid that fact.

Oh you'll not be singing about child abuse anymore, looooowwwww lieeee the fields.....:)

_blank_ · 31-01-2012 12:25pm

TA, you are a disgusting hypocrite.

I saw you complaining on other forums when people "danced on the grave" of Shelbourne when we were going through the bad times.

PauloMN · 31-01-2012 12:27pm

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

When we were off the radar for many years in the early 90's how did they fare? Not too badly. Let them die.

Yes, I hate Rangers FC. I never hid that fact.

Oh you'll not be singing about child abuse anymore, looooowwwww lieeee the fields.....:)

That's not comparing like with like though. We were off the radar, not dead and buried. And they were spending money they shouldn't have been.

If you want them to die, and die permanently, that's fine - but I think we'd suffer quite a bit if that were to happen.

Tiocfaidh Armani · 31-01-2012 12:32pm

Des wrote: »

TA, you are a disgusting hypocrite.

I saw you complaining on other forums when people "danced on the grave" of Shelbourne when we were going through the bad times.

We have reason to hate them. Rangers are a special case. A more disgusting and bigoted institution you'll not see anywhere. I know better than you, Desmond. I live in Glasgow, remember?

BTW, where was the Irish flag when we played them in a UEFA competition? Of yeah, they refused to fly it. And you wonder why I dance on their grave? I was fecking singing in the shower after I went online first thing this morning to see if the rumours about what was gonna be in the Record was true.:D

If you want them to die, and die permanently, that's fine - but I think we'd suffer quite a bit if that were to happen.

No they'll start a new club and have to start from the bottom and have some misery for many years. Please God let that happen and it's looking ever likely:)

Any sign of those accounts been signed off yet btw:D

Madam · 31-01-2012 1:08pm

I really don't buy into this whole idea that the SPL couldn't survive the demise of Rangers, perhaps if and when they leave it gives another team the chance to up the game and leave it a bit more open to change?

Not that I think it'll happen btw;)

PauloMN · 31-01-2012 1:23pm

Madam wrote: »

I really don't buy into this whole idea that the SPL couldn't survive the demise of Rangers, perhaps if and when they leave it gives another team the chance to up the game and leave it a bit more open to change?

Not that I think it'll happen btw;)

Like who? And why would these teams not have stepped up before now? Why do we not have one other realistic title challenger already if what you are saying holds true?

I don't think anyone is saying that Rangers demise would be the SPL's demise. If Rangers went (which we all know will not happen), the SPL would survive but would be even ****ter than it already is. Sponsorships and TV deals would be virtually gone, more clubs would go to the wall and Celtic would not be able to attract or keep the kind of players it currently has.

Madam · 31-01-2012 1:38pm

So, what your saying Celtic can't survive without Rangers and the only reason players outside the UK come to Celtic is to play against Rangers:rolleyes:? What a load of tosh - as I said it could open up a whole new era in Scotland and instead of Celtic having to play the likes of Rangers with their rough and ready kind of soccer - Gawd! We could be the new Portugal:p:)

lubo_moravcik · 31-01-2012 1:50pm

TA's true nature starting to shine through

Yes, I hate Rangers FC. I never hid that fact.

Oh you'll not be singing about child abuse anymore, looooowwwww lieeee the fields.....:)[/Quote]
Course they will, that is their true nature.

I'm loving this, watching them limp about like a wounded animal. If the Record or any other of the laptop loyal had reported this when they knew it was going on it wouldn't have came to this. Their headlines about biscuit tins and photos of the hearse outside CP back in the 90's was enough to spur on Celts For Change, seen The Bunnet come in and ensure we never went to the wall. The denial, lack of coverage, head in the sand attitude in the Scottish media has brought us to this, and its fantastic.

PauloMN · 31-01-2012 1:58pm

Madam wrote: »

So, what your saying Celtic can't survive without Rangers and the only reason players outside the UK come to Celtic is to play against Rangers:rolleyes:? What a load of tosh - as I said it could open up a whole new era in Scotland and instead of Celtic having to play the likes of Rangers with their rough and ready kind of soccer - Gawd! We could be the new Portugal:p:)

No, that's not what I said. I said their demise would negatively affect us if it were to happen, unless we could escape the SPL. We'd also lose a lot of sponsorship money. Without a Glasgow derby, those deals are worth a lot less than they are now.

We lose that, and players would definitely be harder to aquire and hold on to. We struggle to qualify for Europe as it stands, do you think our chances would be better without Rangers? I don't think so. A few seasons without Europe and you'll struggle to attract quality players to the club. Everything might look rosy for a while, I guarantee you'd be reminiscing within a few years.

All we can do is wait and see, but if they were to go, I don't think I'll be "dancing on their graves" (to use a quote from above) as readily as some others around here.

Rough and ready soccer lol, they certainly are not the only culprits in that regard in the SPL!!!

Jelle1880 · 31-01-2012 2:23pm

The only clubs who could grow because of Rangers disappearing are probably run even worse.

Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen,...

Dempsey · 31-01-2012 2:29pm

Maybe the SPL could finally implement the changes required to take Scottish Football. Its the TV companies that are driving the 4 old firm matches a season ****e. If Rangers are severely weakened then maybe Doncaster and co might grow a set and do whats right for the game and not for fat cats.

bobbysands81 · 31-01-2012 2:41pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

TA's true nature starting to shine through

I'd imagine he'll take that post as a compliment.

bobbysands81 · 31-01-2012 2:57pm

Just when you thought it couldn't get any better in that Rangers MIGHT end up owing £97.1m... there's rumours that NACHO NOVO might sign by the end of the day!!!

YYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jelle1880 · 31-01-2012 3:19pm

I thought you didn't take FollowFollow serious

Because that's where someone said that.

edit:

@huddleboard
The Huddleboard Ooooh talk of Celtic supporters class action lawsuit against the Kinning Park Trophy Stealers.......
34 minutes ago via web
Favorite Retweet Reply

Idiots

bobbysands81 · 31-01-2012 4:12pm

Remember the argument about the (lack of) professionalism of the RFC website?

Well just click on this link for a statement from Craig Whyte...

EDIT - they fixed it! Lovely prose from Whyte...

http://www.rangersfc.co.uk/news/football-news/article/2594589

Jelle1880 · 31-01-2012 4:20pm

Pretty good statement, but it's pretty much his word against theirs, I still have my doubts.

Dempsey · 31-01-2012 4:23pm

The reality of Jelavic's departure is two-fold. One, the player wanted to leave and there is no point in trying to keep a player who no longer wants to be at Ibrox. Two, the Club is simply not in a financial position to turn down offers for players which give the Club a good return on its original investment.

Players lies to club to reduce risk of injury, McCoist spouts "he is sick" with plausible deniability. That sort of shenanigans I'd be pissed with

bobbysands81 · 31-01-2012 4:24pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Pretty good statement, but it's pretty much his word against theirs, I still have my doubts.

Pretty good statement???

What planet are you on???

My God, I could rip it apart in seconds...

He doesn't even try and deny that he's mortgaged FOUR years of your season ticket money!!! Things are FAR worse than any of you guys could have imagined.

I'll leave you with this extract:

In the summer transfer window last year we conducted 14 different pieces of transfer business, more than any other club in Scotland. This included new signings and improvement to existing contracts with key players, increasing the players' wage bill significantly. We now have a first team squad of 30 which includes 18 full internationalists.

Since when is extending contracts "transfer business"? As for the 30 members of the first team squad and 18 internationals... name them.

PauloMN · 31-01-2012 4:29pm

That statement was thrown together, and reads like a kid throwing his toys out of the pram. "The big press bullies are pickin' on me". He's quite unprofessional in his dealings with the press tbh.

We wish the player well and thank him for his contribution to Rangers.

Roughly translated - "f**k off Jelavic".

Just saw the Davie Weir DVD they have for sale as well, that's as good as porn for Brewster.

bobbysands81 · 31-01-2012 4:30pm

Another titbit:

The reality of Jelavic's departure is two-fold. One, the player wanted to leave and there is no point in trying to keep a player who no longer wants to be at Ibrox. Two, the Club is simply not in a financial position to turn down offers for players which give the Club a good return on its original investment.

So, how much did Jelavic cost? How much did you get for him? And how much did you turn down during the Summer?

RoryMac · 31-01-2012 4:34pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Pretty good statement, but it's pretty much his word against theirs, I still have my doubts.

What do you have doubts about Jelle, Whyte or the Daily Record?

If i was a Rangers supporter the part below would make me cringe!!

The Daily Record's approach to this story sought to distort and dramatise the matter. I for one will not be reading or buying the Daily Record again and I'm sure many other Rangers fans will share my disgust at yet another smear on this football club.

At least he's not threatening legal action this time, more an instruction for some Rangers fans to keep their heads buried in the sand.

Jelle1880 · 31-01-2012 4:58pm

Both.

I mean, it all boils down to 'Aye you did/No I didnae' with this crap.

bobby: Don't make up **** please.
There was never said that the 5 million each year would be for transfers, it was literally stated as 'improvements to the playing squad'.
Contract extensions to several important players is part of that.

RoryMac · 31-01-2012 5:13pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Both.

I mean, it all boils down to 'Aye you did/No I didnae' with this crap.

That's fair enough, the media will always try to 'spice' things up and put their own slant on stories but for me anyway it's becoming apparent that Whyte is not being truthful about the actual situation Rangers are in at present.

bobbysands81 · 31-01-2012 5:15pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Both.

I mean, it all boils down to 'Aye you did/No I didnae' with this crap.

bobby: Don't make up **** please.
There was never said that the 5 million each year would be for transfers, it was literally stated as 'improvements to the playing squad'.
Contract extensions to several important players is part of that.

You've changed your tune mate!

Jelle1880 wrote: »

No idea where that came from, Whyte always said there would be 5 million available for the first season + whatever comes in from transfers.
15 million over the coming 3 years as well.

I do however think this is just for transfers, so maybe with wages etc. he meant 10 million.

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Erm, you think Celtic can match Championship fees and wages ?
Dream on buddy, the SPL is miles behind the Championship in regards to money.
Nobody ever mentioned a huge war chest, Whyte has already stated that about 5 million would be available this year for transfers.

edit: Let me guess, a certain 'journalist' who lives in Donegal twittered it ?

Jelle1880 · 31-01-2012 5:19pm

Aye, and then I read his statement after the take-over again, which clearly states 'Improvements to the playing squad'

And I count contract extensions under that.

A lot of people back then believed that he did mean transfers, but it became clear soon that he didn't mean 'only transfers'.

bobbysands81 · 31-01-2012 5:24pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Aye, and then I read his statement after the take-over again, which clearly states 'Improvements to the playing squad'
And I count contract extensions under that.

A lot of people back then believed that he did mean transfers, but it became clear soon that he didn't mean 'only transfers'.

So he used the word "transfers" when he didn't actually mean "transfers" and you guys still stick up for him?!

There's a saying in life...you get what you deserve.

Basically you're admitting he's a liar but that it's ok.

premierstone · 31-01-2012 5:24pm

I dont know which is funnier tbh Jelle defending the indefensible or Whyte's amateurish attempts at deflecting the attention.

Yes in the bigger schemes of things Rangers inevitable demise will adversley affect Celtic and the SPL but fcuk tis funny and Im going to enjoy it for now

bobbysands81 · 31-01-2012 5:27pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

bobby: Don't make up **** please.

...and seeing as I didn't make **** up then I'll have a little apology please!

Rangers FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/2013

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