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License to Kill ??

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    #32
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    RichieC wrote: »

    No arrest, no charges.

    No surprise


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    #33
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Update :

    FBI and Department of Justice are investigating the shooting. The kid called a friend to say he was being followed by a strange man and the friend was on-line up until the moment that a fight broke out and the cellphone was dropped.


    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/20/10775671-trayvon-martin-case-to-go-to-grand-jury-fla-state-attorney-announces


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    #34
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    A grand jury will investigate the death of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old shot to death in a gated community in Florida on Feb. 26, state attorney Norm Wolfinger announced Tuesday.


    What does that mean? What's a "Grand Jury"?


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    #35
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Ponster wrote: »
    Update :

    FBI and Department of Justice are investigating the shooting. The kid called a friend to say he was being followed by a strange man and the friend was on-line up until the moment that a fight broke out and the cellphone was dropped.


    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/20/10775671-trayvon-martin-case-to-go-to-grand-jury-fla-state-attorney-announces

    Just read this now, there was a petition on change.org with over 400,000 signatures. That's what it took.... Americaaaaaa f*ck yea... (the sad slow version)


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    #36
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    What does that mean? What's a "Grand Jury"?

    It will determine whether a criminal indictment will be handed out.


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    #37
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Kinda like the DPP?


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    #38
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    Kinda like the DPP?

    No. That would be the DA's office.

    A Grand Jury in this context is kindof like a pre-trial. The DA presents the GJ with an amount of evidence and the GJ determines whether or not the accused has a case to answer for. If the DA can't even convince the GJ that there's a reasonable chance of a conviction, the GJ won't waste anyone's time with a proper trial.


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    #39
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    After doing a little research, the homicide issue seems to be a bit of a non-starter. It would appear that Mr Zimmerman (who despite the initial reports does appear to be a Hispanic, not that it matters) displayed evidence of a being on the receiving end of a few blows when the police showed up. Given the laws in Florida, the only grounds for an indictment would be if it could be shown that it was likely that he was the one to turn the incident to violence. Not an easy task unless there were eye witnesses. (Several people did call to report a scuffle, so maybe they can provide light.)

    The Feds are taking a civil liberties perspective. They'd have no jurisdiction on a murder/manslaughter charge as those are State charges. Exactly what the levels of evidence are required for such charges, I don't rightly know.

    NTM


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    #40
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    The Feds are taking a civil liberties perspective. They'd have no jurisdiction on a murder/manslaughter charge as those are State charges. Exactly what the levels of evidence are required for such charges, I don't rightly know.

    NTM

    Does that mean that in Florida I could kill someone that I provoked into attacking me first and claim self-defense ?


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    #41
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Ponster wrote: »
    Does that mean that in Florida I could kill someone that I provoked into attacking me first and claim self-defense ?

    If there are no witnesses it appears you could skip the provoking bit :D


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    #42
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Ponster wrote: »
    Does that mean that in Florida I could kill someone that I provoked into attacking me first and claim self-defense ?

    Pretty much.

    The moral of that story is to not go around getting into fights and to resist provocation, which I think is good advice worldwide, but particularly important in places where people routinely carry weapons.
    If there are no witnesses it appears you could skip the provoking bit

    Also, pretty much. You'd still have to beat all the forensics, though (and in this case, the audio recordings), so it's a pretty ballsy move.

    Overall, I'm not entirely comfortable with leaving this particular incident stand given the amount of knowledge we have, but I see few grounds (again, on limited information) for actually charging the man, as, evidently, did the local police department.


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    #43
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    but I see few grounds (again, on limited information) for actually charging the man, as, evidently, did the local police department.

    I have no idea what the racial makeup of the area is but should he not be charged with something the words 'Rodney King' come to mine.

    Maybe the best that can be hoped for is a repeal of the law which made this possible in the first place.


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    #44
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    FatherLen wrote: »
    dun dun dun duuun dun dun dun dun dun duuuun dun dun dun dun dun duuuuuun duuuuuun dun dun dun dun.




    james bond theme.

    Thats the theme tune to Jaws!!


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    #45
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    but I see few grounds (again, on limited information) for actually charging the man, as, evidently, did the local police department.

    Here's one maybe.

    911 call by Zimmerman sounds like he whispers "****ing coons"


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    #46
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Ponster wrote: »
    Here's one maybe.

    911 call by Zimmerman sounds like he whispers "****ing coons"

    I had a listen to it last night, I'm not convinced that's what he said. I'm sure the FBI's audio enhancement team is better at such things than I am with my headset at home, however.
    I have no idea what the racial makeup of the area is but should he not be charged with something the words 'Rodney King' come to mine.

    If he cannot be proven to have broken any law, what do you suggest?
    Maybe the best that can be hoped for is a repeal of the law which made this possible in the first place.

    Seriously doubt it's going to happen. It's a good law which has had great benefit to the citizenry at large who no longer have to worry about being second-guessed by people when they believe themselves to have done nothing wrong (even if they did nothing wrong criminally, they are still open to civil litigation). Possible abuses like this are very rare in comparison to the justifiable homicides which caused the law to be written in the first place.

    NTM


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    #47
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    I see few grounds (again, on limited information) for actually charging the man, as, evidently, did the local police department.

    So, could we not just shoot him on the same basis he shot the kid? Seems like a plan.


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    #48
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    So, could we not just shoot him on the same basis he shot the kid? Seems like a plan.

    How are we going to get him to attack us? Taunt him for being a tad overweight?

    NTM


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    #49
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    How are we going to get him to attack us? Taunt him for being a tad overweight?

    NTM


    Just might work - he is obviously easily enraged :D


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    #50
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Just to update.

    Someone in the Sandford PD apparently leaked some of the police report to the local media.

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager
    Several witnesses heard those cries, and there has been a dispute about whether they came from Zimmerman or Trayvon.

    Lawyers for Trayvon's family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman.

    One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him — and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

    Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest at very close range, according to authorities.

    When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.

    No evidence as to who actually started the fight was in the leak.

    NTM


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