generic uniforms

newfrontier · 29-07-2014 9:27pm #1

With costs becoming so important why not allow generic uniforms? Is it down to each individual principal or do staff get any input on the decision?

strawberrie · 29-07-2014 9:53pm

newfrontier wrote: »

With costs becoming so important why not allow generic uniforms? Is it down to each individual principal or do staff get any input on the decision?

In our school the decision was made by parents, staff and the Board of Management.

TheDriver · 29-07-2014 10:12pm

Ah the annual uniform debate. Its usually a decision between all educational partners. Generic can have a lot of issues too that would make no uniform better

byhookorbycrook · 29-07-2014 10:22pm

All primary schools (not sure about secondaries) had to survey parents on the issue this school year just past.

Greenmachine · 29-07-2014 10:26pm

When I was in secondary school. The board of management decided of their own accord to change to crested uniforms. The cost of which was ludicrous. Even then I knew the high price had to involve a kick back to the school.

byhookorbycrook · 29-07-2014 10:33pm

Kick back to the school??Have you evidence of this? That gets thrown around as a "fact" but I have never come across a school where it actually happens.

Greenmachine · 29-07-2014 10:36pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Kick back to the school??Have you evidence of this? That gets thrown around as a "fact" but I have never come across a school where it actually happens.

I strongly suspect, I still have the receipt in my parents somewhere. I was asked to pay as I worked over the summer. €80 in 1996, crazy money. There was an issue in the school for a number of years with parents paying the voluntary contributions. This I am sure was there way to get some more funds.

TheDriver · 29-07-2014 11:00pm

I have never seen a kick back to the schools. In fact dealing with some of the uniform shops can be quite difficult

evolving_doors · 29-07-2014 11:36pm

By generic I presume you mean "without the crest".

I'm not to sure where I stand on the issue as I think it's just going to end up being a uniform vs' no uniform question at the end of the day.

There's a lot of stuff about the government should be doing this that and the other to solve the issue but really the govt. can't do much (except on VAT/allowances/credits maybe).

The govt. knows full well that they can't tell school how to run themselves so it suits them down to the ground for this 'debate' to be coming out every year when they are on holidays. Any politician i've listened to today has done little to offer a solution other than saying "ya ya it's terrible ya, uniforms are expensive , parents are struggling ya ya".

The nub of the matter is that schools decide (not govt.) and have always decided and reviewed the uniform issue. With the crest comes the motto and the picture. some might see this crest as the 'flagship' for the school and all the ethos stuff that comes along with it.

To have non-crest generic uniforms!!! Shur you may as well not have a uniform then... and then you are into the "competition of fashion between teenagers costing money" debate again. (This isn't my belief BTW, it's just the way I've seen this debate go round and around every silly season since I can remember).

Here's my manifesto:
Govt. put it as part of a tax credit for working parents. Allowance for unemployed.
Schools Take a vote, do whatever ye've been doing regardless. BUT...Allow the crest to be iron/sew-on patch.
Ruairi Quinn Come back and collate that bloody survey yourself. Then tell schools what they already knew.
Media Stop using a calendar to dictate what same-stories you run every year. The education system is on the brink as it is.

Never thought about this, but do schools have to licence out their crest????Is there a copyright on it?

rainbowtrout · 29-07-2014 11:42pm

I have never understood the obsession with the cost of uniforms. They do cost a bit but they are generally of good quality materials that last. What I do see going is the cuffs of jumpers most from wear when students are writing.

Having said that, these clothes are worn 9 months of the year ( 10 for primary) Monday to Friday. What other clothing do parents get better value out of for their children?

Some parents do find it hard to pay for uniforms I accept, but there are plenty of parents whose kids I see around the town in the latest football strips, younger kids dressed in stuff from next, branded runners and that end of things never seems to be a problem.

I just had a look at the Elvery's website. A boys man united home jersey costs €45 starting price for the smallest size. The bigger the size the more it costs. Parents have no problem shelling out for this kind of clothing. €60 for a pair of Adidas runners.

I brought a group of students on tour at the start of the summer. I saw lots of branded clothing: Abercrombie, Jack & Jones etc. Not every kid had all this stuff but none of them were dressed head to toe in Penney's either.

We sent out that uniform survey to parents during the last academic year and they were asked loads of questions about whether they wanted a uniform or not, whether they wanted generic uniform or not and whether or not they would prefer their children to wear their own shoes/runners to school.

The majority voted to keep the crested uniform with black shoes.

byhookorbycrook · 30-07-2014 9:54am

Our crest can be sewn on , for sports the sweatshirt isn't generic but it is an O ' Neills and they last for years , worn with any kind of black track suit legs without big logos like Canterburys.

Enright · 30-07-2014 11:06am

Parents like the idea of crested uniform - at least crest on the jumper

byhookorbycrook · 30-07-2014 2:47pm

It was parents who wanted crests for our jumpers, but school decided to make crests available to sew on.

mkem · 01-08-2014 12:10pm

My daughter is a single mum with a child starting school this year
She was given 100 euro to get him ready for school
He needed
2 pants 8 euro each in dunes
2 jumpers 11 x2
Two shirts4.50
Black six 2.50 lidl
Two tracksuit bottoms 11x2
Two tracksuit tops with crest 19 each(to be worn for pe and winter)
Two polo shirts with crest 11 each
Clark's shoes 49(as he has to wear special insoles)
School books 48.75
35 Euros in separate envelopes on day he starts school school nesessaties
Also needs school bag,pencils lunch box etc
TOTAL 259.75
Mabey this can go to explains why people get worked up about uniforms
My grandchildren do wear nice sports tops etc but they are hand me downs or from St Vincent dear Paul's
So a generic uniform would be a great thing in my eyes
I know if we had not helped get his school stuff he would not have had school requirements
Just some food for thought!!!

TheDriver · 01-08-2014 1:00pm

But how much to dress the child in everything for as long as those clothes will last them anyways i.e. You must factor in they need clothes anyways. Also school supplies cost money, you choose to buy expensive shoes. Honestly that sounds quite reasonable for at least a years worth of schooling gear

mkem · 01-08-2014 1:20pm

TheDriver wrote: »

But how much to dress the child in everything for as long as those clothes will last them anyways i.e. You must factor in they need clothes anyways. Also school supplies cost money, you choose to buy expensive shoes. Honestly that sounds quite reasonable for at least a years worth of schooling gear

Yes but they still need clothing for outside of school, uniforms are fine but all schools should have crests that can be sewn on and then moved to new clothes as the child grows

davo2001 · 01-08-2014 1:23pm

mkem wrote: »

My daughter is a single mum with a child starting school this year
She was given 100 euro to get him ready for school
He needed
2 pants 8 euro each in dunes
2 jumpers 11 x2
Two shirts4.50
Black six 2.50 lidl
Two tracksuit bottoms 11x2
Two tracksuit tops with crest 19 each(to be worn for pe and winter)
Two polo shirts with crest 11 each
Clark's shoes 49(as he has to wear special insoles)
School books 48.75
35 Euros in separate envelopes on day he starts school school nesessaties
Also needs school bag,pencils lunch box etc
TOTAL 259.75
Mabey this can go to explains why people get worked up about uniforms
My grandchildren do wear nice sports tops etc but they are hand me downs or from St Vincent dear Paul's
So a generic uniform would be a great thing in my eyes
I know if we had not helped get his school stuff he would not have had school requirements
Just some food for thought!!!

Given €100 by whom? The state? Should she not consider herself lucky that she got this €100 in the first place? Others didn't. If you cannot afford to have kids then don't have them.

mkem · 01-08-2014 1:26pm

davo2001 wrote: »

Given €100 by whom? The state? Should she not consider herself lucky that she got this €100 in the first place? Others didn't. If you cannot afford to have kids then don't have them.

Have you never made a mistake in you're life ,throw the first stone! Hope you never need help!

mkem · 01-08-2014 1:30pm

mkem wrote: »

Have you never made a mistake in you're life ,throw the first stone! Hope you never need help!

There are lots of people who are working very hard with school coming up and finding the expense very hard to deal with,borrowing money for uniform s etc not everyone is able to manage if you can you're in the minority that are extremely lucky!!!

rainbowtrout · 01-08-2014 1:54pm

mkem wrote: »

Yes but they still need clothing for outside of school, uniforms are fine but all schools should have crests that can be sewn on and then moved to new clothes as the child grows

The child is wearing school uniform for most of the day 5 days a week. This reduces the wear and tear on non uniform clothes.

I know my mother and plenty like her were not averse to buying uniforms a little bigger than needed and letting us grow into them so we got longer out of them. Hems were taken up if they were too long at the start and let down as we grew.

mkem · 01-08-2014 1:58pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The child is wearing school uniform for most of the day 5 days a week. This reduces the wear and tear on non uniform clothes.

I know my mother and plenty like her were not averse to buying uniforms a little bigger than needed and letting us grow into them so we got longer out of them. Hems were taken up if they were too long at the start and let down as we grew.

People still do those things he is5 later this year we bought 6 to 8 in most things

mkem · 01-08-2014 2:26pm

Enright wrote: »

Parents like the idea of crested uniform - at least crest on the jumper

What a great idea ,should be compulsory that all school crests are of the sewn on variety☺

TheDriver · 01-08-2014 3:08pm

unfortunately the only people I get in each year complaining about affording the uniform are the same kids with the iphones, best runners etc. Not generalising but it tends to be the same. I am astonished that the genuinely poor families are always kitted out perfectly.......And we have a very cheap uniform, most of which is generic

rainbowtrout · 01-08-2014 3:20pm

mkem wrote: »

People still do those things he is5 later this year we bought 6 to 8 in most things

So subtracting the €35 for school and €48 for books and €49 for Clark's shoes because they have nothing to do with the uniform, all the various pieces of uniform cost €126.

As they were bought in larger sizes most will last him 2-3 years, wearing those clothes for 10 months of the year, I'd say that's a bargain to dress a child. And given that your daughter received €100 towards this cost, the cost of uniform was realistically €26.

What I also don't understand is the fact that parents know they will be sending their child to school and school starts in September. This fact does not change. you might not know which school it will be, but school will happen.

Saving even €1 per week would for a year would cover nearly half the cost of this uniform and pe kit.

mkem · 01-08-2014 3:29pm

TheDriver wrote: »

unfortunately the only people I get in each year complaining about affording the uniform are the same kids with the iphones, best runners etc. Not generalising but it tends to be the same. I am astonished that the genuinely poor families are always kitted out perfectly.......And we have a very cheap uniform, most of which is generic

That is just some of the kids but I,m afraid more and more kids are not so lucky

mkem · 01-08-2014 3:32pm

TheDriver wrote: »

unfortunately the only people I get in each year complaining about affording the uniform are the same kids with the iphones, best runners etc. Not generalising but it tends to be the same. I am astonished that the genuinely poor families are always kitted out perfectly.......And we have a very cheap uniform, most of which is generic

A lot of those poor families would get into debt rather than let the kids look out of place at school ,they are afraid kids would be picked on,sad I know but true

mkem · 01-08-2014 3:37pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

So subtracting the €35 for school and €48 for books and €49 for Clark's shoes because they have nothing to do with the uniform, all the various pieces of uniform cost €126.

As they were bought in larger sizes most will last him 2-3 years, wearing those clothes for 10 months of the year, I'd say that's a bargain to dress a child. And given that your daughter received €100 towards this cost, the cost of uniform was realistically €26.

What I also don't understand is the fact that parents know they will be sending their child to school and school starts in September. This fact does not change. you might not know which school it will be, but school will happen.
Saving even €1 per week would for a year would cover nearly half the cost of this uniform and pe kit.

There are people living from week to week in Ireland ,in debt you are obviously a lucky one or wearing blinkers!!!

mkem · 01-08-2014 3:59pm

mkem wrote: »

There are people living from week to week in Ireland ,in debt you are obviously a lucky one or wearing blinkers!!!

We have no problem with uniforms,God knows it is a god send in levelling the playing field as everyone looks the same ,but the crests are a joke if they were removable and could be reused it would be ok

RealJohn · 01-08-2014 7:12pm

mkem wrote: »

Have you never made a mistake in you're life ,throw the first stone! Hope you never need help!

I'd say that none of us can say we haven't made mistakes but the thing about mistakes is that you often have to live with the consequences of them.

And has been pointed out, uniforms are expensive but not extremely expensive, especially when you factor in the value you get out of them.

byhookorbycrook · 01-08-2014 7:29pm

Why two tracksuits?

mkem · 01-08-2014 8:31pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Why two tracksuits?

Because from Halloween to march they wear them as uniforms

byhookorbycrook · 01-08-2014 8:33pm

That's unusual. Then would they get away with one form of the formal uniform ?

mkem · 01-08-2014 8:35pm

RealJohn wrote: »

I'd say that none of us can say we haven't made mistakes but the thing about mistakes is that you often have to live with the consequences of them.

And has been pointed out, uniforms are expensive but not extremely expensive, especially when you factor in the value you get out of them.

Its not the uniforms that are the problem its the fact that you have to buy with the crests sewn in and not seperatly so they can be reused

mkem · 01-08-2014 8:36pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

That's unusual. Then would they get away with one form of the formal uniform ?

Yes but your talking about a 5 year old using paints etc and trying to get them dry mid week

implausible · 03-08-2014 1:33pm

mkem wrote: »

My daughter is a single mum with a child starting school this year
She was given 100 euro to get him ready for school
He needed
2 pants 8 euro each in dunes
2 jumpers 11 x2
Two shirts4.50
Black six 2.50 lidl
Two tracksuit bottoms 11x2
Two tracksuit tops with crest 19 each(to be worn for pe and winter)
Two polo shirts with crest 11 each
Clark's shoes 49(as he has to wear special insoles)
School books 48.75
35 Euros in separate envelopes on day he starts school school nesessaties
Also needs school bag,pencils lunch box etc
TOTAL 259.75
Mabey this can go to explains why people get worked up about uniforms
My grandchildren do wear nice sports tops etc but they are hand me downs or from St Vincent dear Paul's
So a generic uniform would be a great thing in my eyes
I know if we had not helped get his school stuff he would not have had school requirements
Just some food for thought!!!

I don't see your point here, to be honest, most of the items you've listed ARE generic - Dunnes trousers, tracksuit bottoms, shirts etc. The crest is on the jumper, polo shirt and tracksuit tops, am I right? €11 for a polo shirt is fairly reasonable, in my opinion, plus the fact that they are probably made from fairly hardwearing stuff. Maybe having three crested items is excessive, but I've heard of far worse.

When people complain about uniforms, it's usually things like crested jackets, shirts and PE gear that creates the unreasonable costs. A school having a crested jumper is not unreasonable, as after all, you need to have some 'unifomity.' Your daughter is lucky with having a book scheme in the school, as that reduces costs massively too.

Having a €100 payment towards it is brilliant and the shops will be jammers on Tuesday with parents picking up the child benefit to buy school stuff. They will spend 183 days of the year in school, having all the requirements covered for €260 is excellent value.

hfallada · 03-08-2014 1:43pm

There is a vested interest in keeping branded uniforms. They are made in Ireland and basically the last of our clothing industry.
Although the jumpers are expensive. It's hard to argue they are not good quality and value for money. They are high quality wool, that last for years if well looked after. I know people who wore their jumpers for 180 days a year, for 3/4 years and passed them onto their brothers. You aren't going to get 2 years of constant wearing from a cotton jumper from dunnes as a "generic" option.

Back to school is an expense that occurs every year. But a large minority seem surprised at it every year and can't seem to budget for it. If you saved €5 a week( half a packet of cigarettes) you would have €260, by the time your children are back to school

rainbowtrout · 03-08-2014 1:44pm

mkem wrote: »

Yes but your talking about a 5 year old using paints etc and trying to get them dry mid week

Ah here. Kids don't spend everyday painting. And they don't come home from school dirty every day. They spend quite a bit of time on English, Irish and maths. If they get paint on clothes isn't that the reason for the second set, so they have something to wear while the first is in the wash?

I agree with implausible. €260 is great value for uniform, books and resources for a year of education. Given that €100 is being put towards this, it's a real bargain at €160.

byhookorbycrook · 03-08-2014 1:52pm

Our infant wear painting bibs, usually an old large shirt that covers them . The main mess comes from children having yops or similar for lunch!

mirrorwall14 · 03-08-2014 3:22pm

I genuinely don't understand the uniforms row. In primary school I had three pinafores for the whole time, two pinafores for secondary school. Both were crested but I mean five for the whole of my school career was bloody good. They were bought massive, turned up or belted and they were fine. I never needed two, any odd stain was given a quick rinse on a school night and a full wash at the weekend. I needed two/three white shirts a year which were dunnes or tesco and cost very little. Similarly for the grey knee socks for primary and navy for secondary. I had one school tie for primary and one for secondary my cardigan was grey in primary and knitted by my granny. In secondary school I had a crested cardigan, again I only needed two for the whole six years. School track suit only came in when I was in 2nd class and did me for the rest of primary. Secondary school was jus navy track suit bottoms and white polo shirt so all that was needed was the polo (I wore the bottoms regularly outside school).

Apart from that all my parents needed was shoes which I would have needed anyways. I honestly don't believe that I could have been dressed any more cheaply for 9 months of those 13years!

lulu1 · 04-08-2014 11:58pm

Its the same every year complaining about the price of uniforms. My two children did not have two of everything,they had their trousers and skirt and a two pack of shirts each out of Dunne's and a jumper out of m&s because they didn't have colour in Dunne's. I had too get tracksuits from school as no one else sold them. On pe day I always washed their uniform. Don't really see why they have to have two of everything. Although in saying that I know when your first is going to school you do tend to go overboard I did it myself. Some of my friends were getting the school clothing allowance and still complaining they were'nt getting enough

generic uniforms

Should generic uniforms be allowed? 31 votes

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