Illegal workers

conorhal · 02-07-2011 10:19am

teaandtoast wrote: »

Why why did you say they were indian then? there a big difference between the two. Anyways there is a major problem in the immigration first of all what is more serious than illegal workers here is bringing in criminals and rapists attacking and doing crime here here just because they are from the EU. But very few things from the perspective of reality in this country.

I didn't say they were Indian and I know that there is a difference, I'm not a dolt, I said: " half the takeaways in town employ illegal’s from Pakistan or India", those two Indian takeaways constitute half the takeaways in the town one is run by Pakistanis (though the Indians down the road really hate them, mostly because 2 Indian takeaways in a small town means one will go out of business soon). Anyway, both takeaway employ illegal’s, shortly after they were set up brothers and cousins from India and Pakistan started appearing, who as I pointed out take to midnight jogging whenever the guards turn up if there's trouble.
The latest census seemed to be a surprise to the ESRI when they discovered that there were 100,000 more people here then they expected. And before you misinterpret that, I'm not saying that there are 100,000 illegal workers here, my point is that our management and recording of who comes in and out of the country is non-existent so we are seen as a soft touch and an easily accessible destination for illegal workers, and yes, that is important and it does have an economic impact.
As to EU criminals, that's just a product of the same lacksidasical approach to border control, I'm sure Spain was thrilled to have Larry Murphy strolling their streets recently.
There absolutely should be some arrangement whereby a person convicted of a serious crime in another member state can be refused entry, but the ECHR and the EU in general would never allow that, in fact an ECHR ruling recently ruled that the UK couldn't deport individuals convicted of committing a serious crime there.
This is all part of the same ideologically driven nonsense that is the European integration project. The EU actively undermines member states control of immigration in an attempt to force integration, no matter what damage it does, because the establishment of any restrictions would undermine their little project. What galls me is the fact that if you asked citizens in any member state if they would be in favour of an arrangement to allow member states refuse entry to a convicted violent rapist I’d say 99% of them would be, but the EU has no interest in it’ citizens opinion, as Lisbon 2 made perfectly clear.

Adyx · 02-07-2011 4:07pm

teaandtoast wrote: »

Well i said its the religion not the people. Most of them are good people but however I wouldn't trust many muslims like i wouldn't trust many strangers. Well 1.6% of the popluation of pakistan is christian and 13% of indian's population are muslims. I just don't trust muslims i have not got anything against them as people just the religion.

That doesn't make it any less hypocritical or offensive. I don't like Christianity, that doesn't mean I'm going to judge someone because they're a Christian. Same goes for the other religions too. Except scientology, they're fools but I don't recognise it as a religion.

RainbowRose81 · 02-07-2011 4:16pm

Adyx wrote: »

That doesn't make it any less hypocritical or offensive. I don't like Christianity, that doesn't mean I'm going to judge someone because they're a Christian. Same goes for the other religions too. Except scientology, they're fools but I don't recognise it as a religion.

I didn't say i dont like them, people are people, I said i don't agree with their religion.

Adyx · 02-07-2011 5:03pm

RainbowRose81 wrote: »

I didn't say i dont like them, people are people, I said i don't agree with their religion.

Em who are you? Or how many accounts do you have? :P

Assuming you are teaandtoast, I never said anything about liking anyone. I said I don't like Christianity. If you like; "I don't agree with it".

Again, my point is you said you don't trust Pakistani people because they are Muslim. That is stereotyping, offensive and in the context of your op, hypocritical.

mandrake04 · 03-07-2011 3:07am

Adyx wrote: »

I don't like Christianity, that doesn't mean I'm going to judge someone because they're a Christian. Same goes for the other religions too. Except scientology, they're fools but I don't recognise it as a religion.

Adyx wrote: »

Again, my point is you said you don't trust Pakistani people because they are Muslim. That is stereotyping, offensive and in the context of your op, hypocritical.

I think you need to get over yourself, talk about throwing stones in glass houses.

JONJO THE MISER · 03-07-2011 4:03am

I lived with a Indian housemate in Galway, pure illegal meant to be going to college, one of those English learning colleges where you can only work 20 hours a week, never went to college and works more than 40 hours a week and is trying to marry some eastern european girl to get Irish work visa, how do i report him?
Because we have enough unemployed here in Ireland without scammers like these in this country.

mikemac · 03-07-2011 4:07am

GNIB

03-07-2011 7:22am

This happened on a bus once to me. The guard basically walked down the length of the bus askingeveryone for ID. I said "I don't have any ID on me." I assume from my thick country accent he decided I was irish.

Adyx · 03-07-2011 9:53am

mandrake04 wrote: »

I think you need to get over yourself, talk about throwing stones in glass houses.

Why should I "get over myself"? Scientology is a money-grabbing cult, nothing more. Most countries (including Ireland and most of Europe) don't even recognise it as a religion. I'm not deeming an entire country untrustworthy because of the religion of the majority of its people.

Should the entire population of Ireland be described as untrustworthy purely on the basis that the majority of the population are catholic?

teaandtoast · 03-07-2011 4:10pm

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

I lived with a Indian housemate in Galway, pure illegal meant to be going to college, one of those English learning colleges where you can only work 20 hours a week, never went to college and works more than 40 hours a week and is trying to marry some eastern european girl to get Irish work visa, how do i report him?
Because we have enough unemployed here in Ireland without scammers like these in this country.

Well thats weird because most educated indians can speak english. There are two official language in India, hindu and english, its part of the school curriculum. It was ruled by uk til 1947 so speaking engish is very important there. I know some indians here who are married to Irish women and they are genuine. They are very proud people and few that would scam women to get a work visa. Arabs and pakistanis are known for doing that though.

DonQuay1 · 24-03-2012 11:45am

Orando Broom wrote: »

Are blacks legal?

Are we allowed to use the term '... blacks ....' - in a context like this - here in Ireland these days?

El Weirdo · 24-03-2012 12:16pm

DonQuay1 wrote: »

Are we allowed to use the term '... blacks ....' - in a context like this - here in Ireland these days?

It wasn't as frowned upon when this thread was actually active.

MagicSean · 24-03-2012 12:39pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Ah yes racial profiling the mentality that gave us the Guildford 4...............

They were black???

lividduck · 24-03-2012 5:11pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Ah yes racial profiling the mentality that gave us the Guildford 4...............

And the lack of it gave us 9/11, Madrid,etc..

haminka · 24-03-2012 5:19pm

I know of two illegal worker's. They are my neighbour's daughters and live in New York.

RussellTuring · 24-03-2012 6:39pm

Why should someone's nationality effect their right to live and work in Ireland (or elsewhere)? It seems to me that willingness and ability to work should determine whether or not they can have a job, rather than where they happen to have been born.

A person from Spain being allowed to live and work in Ireland more freely than someone from Morocco, for instance, seems to be nothing more than blatant discrimination. It also occurs to me that there would be far less opportunity for exploitation by unscrupulous employers if the workers weren't afraid of being deported for refusing to work a twenty hour shift.

44leto · 24-03-2012 6:48pm

RussellTuring wrote: »

Why should someone's nationality effect their right to live and work in Ireland (or elsewhere)? It seems to me that willingness and ability to work should determine whether or not they can have a job, rather than where they happen to have been born.

A person from Spain being allowed to live and work in Ireland more freely than someone from Morocco, for instance, seems to be nothing more than blatant discrimination. It also occurs to me that there would be far less opportunity for exploitation by unscrupulous employers if the workers weren't afraid of being deported for refusing to work a twenty hour shift.

Because we would not be able to cope with the numbers, Ireland's population would double overnight.

RussellTuring · 24-03-2012 6:55pm

44leto wrote: »

Because we would not be able to cope with the numbers, Ireland's population would double overnight.

I severely doubt that. Nevertheless, Ireland has a relatively small population for a Western country of its size, and this doesn't even address my point: people are granted legal status based on their country of origin.

srsly78 · 24-03-2012 7:06pm

RussellTuring wrote: »

Why should someone's nationality effect their right to live and work in Ireland (or elsewhere)? It seems to me that willingness and ability to work should determine whether or not they can have a job, rather than where they happen to have been born.

A person from Spain being allowed to live and work in Ireland more freely than someone from Morocco, for instance, seems to be nothing more than blatant discrimination. It also occurs to me that there would be far less opportunity for exploitation by unscrupulous employers if the workers weren't afraid of being deported for refusing to work a twenty hour shift.

It works both ways. Irish people are not allowed to just move to Morocco on a whim...

Ireland is part of the EU, this gives us the freedom to work in other EU countries like Spain. The quid pro quo for this is we let Spanish/EU citizens come and work in Ireland.

old hippy · 24-03-2012 7:54pm

44leto wrote: »

Because we would not be able to cope with the numbers, Ireland's population would double overnight.

Ah, that old chestnut again. Our population has been decimated for 170 years or so. Bit of new blood to strengthen the gene pools and create jobs wouldn't be a bad thing.

Doc Ruby · 24-03-2012 8:11pm

old hippy wrote: »

Ah, that old chestnut again. Our population has been decimated for 170 years or so. Bit of new blood to strengthen the gene pools and create jobs wouldn't be a bad thing.

Money creates jobs. Warm bodies fill jobs. I won't even go into the "new blood" eugenics bit.

old hippy · 24-03-2012 8:18pm

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Money creates jobs. Warm bodies fill jobs. I won't even go into the "new blood" eugenics bit.

Turn of phrase. My wife and I are migrants to the UK and contribute to the economy here. There's 60 million plus here and there's still plenty of room

You are welcome to go into the new blood bit, unless you find the idea of people mixing and reproducing repellent? You being a doctor, I assume you know it's a good thing, yes?

saa · 24-03-2012 8:26pm

Well certainly if I was working in a country outside of the EU where I am a minority I would expect the police to come round to me first as there would be a fair chance that I am from abroad and I have some sort of arrangement to be there.
I wouldn't take offence unless I had something to hide.

old hippy · 24-03-2012 8:33pm

saa wrote: »

Well certainly if I was working in a country outside of the EU where I am a minority I would expect the police to come round to me first as there would be a fair chance that I am from abroad and I have some sort of arrangement to be there.
I wouldn't take offence unless I had something to hide.

I remember my dearly departed friend telling me about how, as a young Irishman in London, the police kicked his door down, threatened him and turned his flat upside down, in case he was a terrorist. This was in the early 70s. He still didn't bear a grudge, to his dying day. Not sure I'd be so forgiving. Sorry, off topic, I know.

44leto · 24-03-2012 8:41pm

RussellTuring wrote: »

I severely doubt that. Nevertheless, Ireland has a relatively small population for a Western country of its size, and this doesn't even address my point: people are granted legal status based on their country of origin.

So you are saying a Chinese persons whose average income is 4000 dollars would not rather take their chances and earn up to 30000, or any African who has little prospects of obtaining any employment or any income would not take their chances in Ireland. You position is incredibly naive.

RussellTuring · 26-03-2012 1:47pm

srsly78 wrote: »

It works both ways. Irish people are not allowed to just move to Morocco on a whim...

No but they'd probably find it much easier to do so.

Ireland is part of the EU, this gives us the freedom to work in other EU countries like Spain. The quid pro quo for this is we let Spanish/EU citizens come and work in Ireland.

I realise this. The fact remains that the restrictions placed on non-EU citizens makes it far easier for employers to force them into dangerous work and long hours, withhold wages etc by using the threat of deportation.

Irish people, and others in the western world, often blame immigrants for taking our jerbs but what makes them more attractive is their vulnerability, especially unskilled labourers.

44leto wrote: »

So you are saying a Chinese persons whose average income is 4000 dollars would not rather take their chances and earn up to 30000, or any African who has little prospects of obtaining any employment or any income would not take their chances in Ireland.

I never said that at all.

You position is incredibly naive.

No but your strawmanning of it is. As is your belief that the population would double overnight.

RainbowRose81 · 27-03-2012 4:20pm

eco2live wrote: »

I don't want to to descend into racism as it is nothing at all to do with race. I was watching one of those UK programs about illegal workers. They go into various businesses and deport anyone who has not got the right to be in the country. They seem very professional in doing it.

As all the other state bodies in Ireland as far as I can see are a disaster (FAS, HSE, financhal regulator etc) is there anyone doing this in Ireland? I have never seen or heard about this happening in Ireland. Is anybody doing anything to detect these workers? Apart from people who fall into their laps by applying for asylum and getting refused and deported I have never seen or heard of it. Never seen it in the papers. Never heard of any business getting fined.

These are all jobs that are needed by people who live in Ireland (Irish or Legal immigrants).

Am I wrong in my assumption that this is yet another state run area that is a disaster in Ireland?

Well most systems in Ireland are dysfunctional at many levels. There are more important services that need to be addressed first such as our health service and Ireland has the 5th highest youth sucide rate in europe so mental health and suicide prevention are important things to be addressed.

Well Ireland doesn't have a significant segments of populations from a non EU background than the UK has, most foreigners in Ireland are european so illegal immigrants is not major priority given the small percentage of non eu people here.
There are alot more illegal workers in america than in Ireland and alot of the illegal immigrants in america are Irish.

howsyourtusk · 27-03-2012 4:27pm

We could spent millions deporting illegal workers or we could spend relatively little punishing those who gambled billions on a property bubble and financial speculation. But no, sure twas the welfare cheats that ****ed over this country right??

old hippy · 27-03-2012 5:17pm

howsyourtusk wrote: »

We could spent millions deporting illegal workers or we could spend relatively little punishing those who gambled billions on a property bubble and financial speculation. But no, sure twas the welfare cheats that ****ed over this country right??

Bitter, angry people always need a scapegoat. The people who fleeced Ireland right in front of our eyes with our consent must be laughing at who we focus our ire on.

Illegal workers

Comments