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Oracle certified Java Associate any good?

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  • 26-06-2012 10:56pm
    #1
    quinnd6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭


    I've been out of work for over 4 years now unable to get any work as a Java web developer.
    I was wondering would an Oracle Java Associate certification be of any use in helping me to get a job or would I be wasting my time.
    The oracle Java programmer exam seems like it would be very hard to pass with tons of questions which try to trick you and catch you out judging by sample exams.
    I'm just stuck in a rut at the moment and don't know what to fricking do.


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    #2
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    Maybe try something new and expand your skillset


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    #3
    Feathers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Feathers


    quinnd6 wrote: »
    I've been out of work for over 4 years now unable to get any work as a Java web developer.
    I was wondering would an Oracle Java Associate certification be of any use in helping me to get a job or would I be wasting my time.
    The oracle Java programmer exam seems like it would be very hard to pass with tons of questions which try to trick you and catch you out judging by sample exams.
    I'm just stuck in a rut at the moment and don't know what to fricking do.

    It's unclear from your post what you're background is in. Are you trying to move into IT? Into Java? Or are you already a Java developer & are looking for certification?

    Have you any previous experience? Jobs/college?

    Hard to say if it's of use to you or not without the above. Oracle certification shows that you're competent in the langugage. The fact that there are a lot of questions that are edge cases will be viewed differently by different employers — some see it as a waste as it doesn't mirror real world problems; others will think that you've an in-depth knowledge of the language.

    It also depends what type of work you're going to go into. I'm working in a web agency. Any job specs in my area or CVs that come in the door will mention Spring, Hibernate, Maven. But our HR/interviewers aren't especially interested in multi-threading & livelock scenarios, as we don't deal in that type of stuff day-to-day. Go to financial sector on the other hand & synchronisation and transactional stuff is a lot more involved in what you'll be doing.

    So TL;DR: it show Java competence, but depends on your background if it's of use to you or not


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    #4
    SilverScreen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭SilverScreen


    I'm taking this exam myself in September. It might boost your chances and it might not, it really depends on the employer. Some employers see it as a bonus (mine suggested I do it) and others couldn't really be bothered about it. It's a VERY difficult exam and the sample questions that I've been practicing with are basically like trick questions that turn your brain inside-out. You really have to know Java inside-out, back to front.

    In your situation you should try and get any type of work at all, even try internships just to get the experience. If necessary you can always go back to college.


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    #5
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,329 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    It's a pointless certification. No one looks for certifications. Instead you need to be able to go for an interview where you can pass an appropriate technical test and talk about your knowledge in an interview.


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    #6
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,329 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Zero1986 wrote: »
    I'm taking this exam myself in September. It might boost your chances and it might not, it really depends on the employer. Some employers see it as a bonus (mine suggested I do it) and others couldn't really be bothered about it. It's a VERY difficult exam and the sample questions that I've been practicing with are basically like trick questions that turn your brain inside-out. You really have to know Java inside-out, back to front.

    In your situation you should try and get any type of work at all, even try internships just to get the experience. If necessary you can always go back to college.

    Just to note that your situation is valid as an existing employee where the employer wants to see evidence of self-improvement.

    The same does not apply to people being taken on.


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    #7
    SilverScreen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭SilverScreen


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    It's a pointless certification. No one looks for certifications. Instead you need to be able to go for an interview where you can pass an appropriate technical test and talk about your knowledge in an interview.
    Really it's just money in the pocket for Oracle. But some lesser companies seem to see having certified Java programmers as a boost for their reputation (or ego).

    But yeah it's all about showing confidence in interviews, talking about your experience and convincing the interviewer that you are capable.


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    #8
    rock22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭rock22


    You might qualifiy for support from FAS to do the Java Programmer exam. Contact them.

    I have just completed the course and exam. Hard to know if employers are looking for it but it can't do any harm . It will bring your Java up to date and will also be a recent highlight on your cv if you are out of work for 4 years.

    The exam is a bit tricky, and really must be considered one of the worst examples of educational practice anywhere, but it is passable.


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    #9
    Feathers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Feathers


    rock22 wrote: »
    The exam is a bit tricky, and really must be considered one of the worst examples of educational practice anywhere, but it is passable.

    I don't know if I'd agree with that — the exam is about being certified as an expert in the ins & outs of the language. It's just that most jobs don't need that level of knowledge around edge cases.

    Maybe what's needed is a lower level of certification that's suitable for most day-to-day tasks, although I'm not sure how much weight a ECDL in Java would hold with most employers. :)

    Similarly, if I become an Adobe Certified Expert in Photoshop, I'm over-qualified (technically, not aesthetically) for most design or editing jobs that use the software. It does mean that I can happily give training courses & does obviously show my competence to an employer looking for PS skills, but the level of knowledge isn't needed for most 'Mac operator' style jobs.


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    #10
    rock22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭rock22


    Feathers wrote: »
    I don't know if I'd agree with that — the exam is about being certified as an expert in the ins & outs of the language. It's just that most jobs don't need that level of knowledge around edge cases.

    I was just picking up on the OP's comment that the questions were tricky and trying to catch you out. Unfortunately the OP is right, however i was trying to say that it was still possible to pass it.

    My other points, that it would bring your Java up to date and that it would indicate recent activity for your cv are probably more important.


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    #11
    John_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    It's a pointless certification. No one looks for certifications. Instead you need to be able to go for an interview where you can pass an appropriate technical test and talk about your knowledge in an interview.

    I can see where you're coming from but having a certification can do you no harm.

    From a company point of view, if they need to submit bids in response to a tender then having certified resources as part of that bid will score more points.

    Ultimately though, you need to have the technical knowledge and experience first. A certification alone does not prove this.


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    #12
    Recognition Scene
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Recognition Scene


    Isn't the Associate the easy one most people skip and go straight to the Java Programmer exam? If you're intent on getting the certification I'd do that.


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    #13
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users Posts: 16,377 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    It's a pointless certification. No one looks for certifications. Instead you need to be able to go for an interview where you can pass an appropriate technical test and talk about your knowledge in an interview.
    I'm a tech lead and have conducted interviews and I can assure you that the OCJP isn't a pointless certification. If someone has passed the exam, it's definitely a feather in an interviewees cap as it says that they can apply themselves to an exam that requires a decent amount of study and practice. It also says to me (as a Java developer) that they have some sort of iota how to code in the language. Of course you don't have to have a certification to demonstrate that, but it is nice to see.

    From the other end of the perspective, when I was a more junior developer, I found that by having the OCJP that I was much more confident in interviews. The majority of typical Java interview questions are covered by the exam and it provides a very decent spread of core API knowledge.


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    #14
    Saint Ruth
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Saint Ruth


    Those Oracle Certs are worth doing, and they do look good on your CV.

    However, I wouldn't bother with the Associate one (unless you can do it for free). You should do the Programmer one instead, though it's harder.


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    #15
    magooly
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭magooly


    Can you guys point me to where I can book in for the Programmer exam?

    Thanks


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    #16
    Fluffy88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Fluffy88


    I would also suggest skip the Associate, especially if you already have some Java knowledge and experience.

    If you want to apply for the Cert directly you can do it from Oracle's website,
    https://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=457&get_params=pillar_id:5

    Here is a direct link to OCJP for Java 7.
    http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=5001&get_params=p_exam_id:1Z0-803&p_org_id=&lang=


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    #17
    GreenWolfe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭GreenWolfe


    Fluffy88 wrote: »
    I would also suggest skip the Associate, especially if you already have some Java knowledge and experience.]

    That isn't possible for Java 7, the Associate exam is a prerequisite for the Programmer exam.

    @magooly, You can find a test centre with Pearson Vue -

    http://www.pearsonvue.com/vtclocator/


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    #18
    Fluffy88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Fluffy88


    Ah okay, sorry I missed that.
    I don't know would it be worth getting the Associate but since you can't avoid it now the OP should go ahead and get it.

    I would look for FAS funding if it is available since doing both Associate & Programmer will now cost you $600.
    And the Associate exam isn't worth much on it's own.


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    #19
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Yeah you can't skip the associate any more. So go for that, they are very useful because you will be learning from them anyway, and you get something from it. It looks good that you are doing something whilst looking for a job. I was asked in my interview for this job...what have you been up to in the mean time, quite concerned that I wasn't bettering myself etc, they were very impressed with me for doing that. You can do it free from fas, even if you get a job during it they still pay for it when you are ready.


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    #20
    Adyx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,997 ✭✭✭Adyx


    I've been out of practice with Java for a few years now so I'm doing the OCA through FAS at the moment. I'm hoping to get back to college in Sept so if nothing else it's good practice for that.


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    #21
    Logical_Bear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 799 ✭✭✭Logical_Bear


    AFAIK you can still sit the java SE 6 exam,in which case you can skip the associate and go straight for the Programmer cert which is a hell of a lot harder than the associate.


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    #22
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    The new associate is way harder than the old one. It's about 60% of the scjp. The old one was a joke.


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    #23
    saucyleopard
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭saucyleopard


    I am on the new FAS course for a junior developer in java and asp.net HTML CSS C# and as much as they can jam in over the course . We done the exam yesterday and I failed with a 58% and I would consider myself to be a fairly decent programmer. Its a bi*ch of an exam but I personally will keep doing it until I get that 77% because even if I can program no employer is going to want to talk to me without a decent qualification and in my own opinion this will be a very good one to have .


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    #24
    Picasso711
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Picasso711


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    The new associate is way harder than the old one. It's about 60% of the scjp. The old one was a joke.
    I am starting studying for the associate with Fas on Monday could you explain what SCJP means please?


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    #25
    saucyleopard
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭saucyleopard


    It means that if you pass the exam you get a cert from Oracle rather than FAS and that's a good thing.Some genius at FAS thinks that this exam is a level 6 even though degree students have an 80% fail rate.

    To be fair though if you work HARD at the programming and study some(a lot) test questions before taking the exam you will pass.

    Java is a great language to learn to program with as it makes learning the rest of them fairly easy and even ones you can't yet use you will be able to follow the code and understand.
    P.S. These exams are a couple of hundred euro if you were paying for them yourself so pass them now when they're free.:)


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    #26
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Picasso711 wrote: »
    I am starting studying for the associate with Fas on Monday could you explain what SCJP means please?
    Theya re all certifications you will get for sucessful completeion of your course through FAS.

    SCJA & SCJP were the old versions of the exams, first was trivial, second was harder than the one you are doing. You could skip the first one.

    It is now called the OCAJ & OCJCP with you having to do the first one now, and the first one being about 60% of the material of the old SCJP. I thought the material for these taught me a lot.


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    #27
    Picasso711
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Picasso711


    Thanks for the reply Tar.Aldarion. I am really excited and looking forward to getting stuck in and expanding my limited Java knowledge.


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    #28
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Best of luck :)


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    #29
    NeoSD5
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭NeoSD5


    saucyleopard wrote: »
    I am on the new FAS course for a junior developer in java and asp.net HTML CSS C# and as much as they can jam in over the course . We done the exam yesterday and I failed with a 58% and I would consider myself to be a fairly decent programmer. Its a bi*ch of an exam but I personally will keep doing it until I get that 77% because even if I can program no employer is going to want to talk to me without a decent qualification and in my own opinion this will be a very good one to have .

    I am thinking to do this Java course, and I cant forgive me if I fail it. Is it a good idea to buy a a practice test which cost 99$

    http://www.selftestsoftware.com/certtestprep/practice-test/oracle/1z0-850.kap

    Did anyone try this? What are the chances that I pass after doing this practicing?


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    #30
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    If you do the FAS course they give you some paid exam questions. Also with the books come exam questions, there is even a book of exam questions, you certainly need to practice the exams yes.


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    #31
    NeoSD5
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭NeoSD5


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    If you do the FAS course they give you some paid exam questions. Also with the books come exam questions, there is even a book of exam questions, you certainly need to practice the exams yes.

    I am not sure if I can do this course in FAS in my area, Waterford, but i will check it. Is the course free? Is the only thing I have to pay is the actual exam?


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