Flushing system before installing oil boiler

Tracyk · 16-06-2014 7:37am #1

Before retrofitting an oil boiler I understand that the heating system needs to be flushed (powerflush). Is the powerflush absolutely necessary. Can the system be cleaned/flushed another way? ie fernox cleaner added to heating system and hot and cold flush, then boiler installed and an inhibitor added. Any other way than the expensive powerflush.

Dtp1979 · 16-06-2014 8:59am

Tracyk wrote: »

Before retrofitting an oil boiler I understand that the heating system needs to be flushed (powerflush). Is the powerflush absolutely necessary. Can the system be cleaned/flushed another way? ie fernox cleaner added to heating system and hot and cold flush, then boiler installed and an inhibitor added. Any other way than the expensive powerflush.

Yes there are other ways that are less effective and cheaper. If youre lucky, your system is very clean and one if the less effective ways might do. End of the day a proper powerflush can't be beaten. You get what you pay for.
Is your boiler an A rated condensing boiler?

Tracyk · 16-06-2014 5:28pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Yes there are other ways that are less effective and cheaper. If youre lucky, your system is very clean and one if the less effective ways might do. End of the day a proper powerflush can't be beaten. You get what you pay for.
Is your boiler an A rated condensing boiler?

Defo won't be powerflushing the system, anyway house is only bout 5 or 6 years old. There's a standard efficiency boiler installed and I'm goin to retrofit a grant condensing boiler. System water appears clean but I know it's still always hard to tell.

What is the next best way to flushing/cleaning the system, and what chemicals should I use? And procedure?

Dtp1979 · 16-06-2014 5:53pm

Tracyk wrote: »

Defo won't be powerflushing the system, anyway house is only bout 5 or 6 years old. There's a standard efficiency boiler installed and I'm goin to retrofit a grant condensing boiler. System water appears clean but I know it's still always hard to tell.

What is the next best way to flushing/cleaning the system, and what chemicals should I use? And procedure?

The next best thing would be the old fashioned way of taking off the rads and using a hose. This method is useless in comparison to a proper flush but will help. Use some fernox f5 beforehand. The boiler your fitting needs a clean system to work properly. By cutting corners your gambling with the heat exchanger in it. Probably going to invalidate the warranty too. Are you going to commission the boiler too?

Tracyk · 16-06-2014 6:21pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

The next best thing would be the old fashioned way of taking off the rads and using a hose. This method is useless in comparison to a proper flush but will help. Use some fernox f5 beforehand. The boiler your fitting needs a clean system to work properly. By cutting corners your gambling with the heat exchanger in it. Probably going to invalidate the warranty too. Are you going to commission the boiler too?

yes I'll be installing the boiler myself and commissioning the boiler myself, I'm not oftec registered but I am blueflame certified and have all equipment, so I'll be undertaking all the work myself. The problem was that I don't have a powerflush machine so I just wanted to know what was the next best procedure cause I wasn't sure of the best way to tackle it.

So just to clarify. I need to add Fernox f5 into heating system and let it work it's magic, once thats done drain down system and disconnect all rads and flush each one of them out using garden hose.

I've heard of this method before alright. As for associated pipework in the heating system really Im pretty much hoping Ferxox f5 has cleaned that to the best of it ability so.

Dtp1979 · 16-06-2014 6:59pm

Tracyk wrote: »

yes I'll be installing the boiler myself and commissioning the boiler myself, I'm not oftec registered but I am blueflame certified and have all equipment, so I'll be undertaking all the work myself. The problem was that I don't have a powerflush machine so I just wanted to know what was the next best procedure cause I wasn't sure of the best way to tackle it.

So just to clarify. I need to add Fernox f5 into heating system and let it work it's magic, once thats done drain down system and disconnect all rads and flush each one of them out using garden hose.

I've heard of this method before alright. As for associated pipework in the heating system really Im pretty much hoping Ferxox f5 has cleaned that to the best of it ability so.

The best way to tackle it is a proper flush. But you might get lucky the other way.

scudo2 · 16-06-2014 9:03pm

Drain system, add Fernox or similar, only 1/4 fill rads. Run system. Flow of water will be maximum across bottom of rads/sludge area.
Drain and re fill 3 times at end of treatment time.
Rad trick works well.
Normally no need to remove rads.
I've never had to.

Tracyk · 16-06-2014 9:15pm

scudo2 wrote: »

Drain system, add Fernox or similar, only 1/4 fill rads. Run system. Flow of water will be maximum across bottom of rads/sludge area.
Drain and re fill 3 times at end of treatment time.
Rad trick works well.
Normally no need to remove rads.
I've never had to.

only problem is it's going to be hard to judge when rads are 1/4 full. Obviously I'll have to to downstairs first (isolate upstairs rads) then vice versa.

16-06-2014 9:19pm

A poor mans power flush is like Coitus interruptus;) done by many but you only know if you've got it wrong when there's a puddle of water on the floor:D

scudo2 · 16-06-2014 9:26pm

Tracyk wrote: »

only problem is it's going to be hard to judge when rads are 1/4 full. Obviously I'll have to to downstairs first (isolate upstairs rads) then visa versa.

Wrong

Just slightly vent rads, all you need is water/heat in the bottom, you'll feel the heat.

If self commissioning, which I don't recommend, follow instruction book to the letter. Ask boiler manufactures if its ok,as there's a problem with insurance in my opinion.
Manufactures info is basic and don't cover everything.

esox28 · 16-06-2014 11:38pm

When you drain your ch at best the flow of water runs at 8/ltrs/min, a powerflush dumps water at a rate of 90 ltrs/min. need i say more.

Filling and draining the system 3 times imo waste of time and water.

Bring rads out side and flush with garden hose as the lads suggested, just don't wet the white carpets.

scudo2 · 17-06-2014 12:01am

esox28 wrote: »

When you drain your ch at best the flow of water runs at 8/ltrs/min, a powerflush dumps water at a rate of 90 ltrs/min. need i say more.

Filling and draining the system 3 times imo waste of time and water.

Bring rads out side and flush with garden hose as the lads suggested, just don't wet the white carpets.

Agree on power flushing.
Disagree on removing rads.
House only 5-6 years old.
I'd even question the economic value of replacing boiler as most are a reasonably good design for the last ten years, unless it's undersized.
I'd sooner go down the zone and control route.
Draining system 3 times is only a DIY recommendation for him. Not everyone has a power flushing equipment.

esox28 · 17-06-2014 12:12am

More than likely oversized, most I've seen anyway. Sure it doesn't make good value changing a 6 year old boiler when its running good and im sure the op has it like a new penny.

+1 for heating controls
-1 for draining ch 3 times like a broken pencil there's no point.

scudo2 · 17-06-2014 1:12am

esox28 wrote: »

More than likely oversized, most I've seen anyway. Sure it doesn't make good value changing a 6 year old boiler when its running good and im sure the op has it like a new penny.

+1 for heating controls
-1 for draining ch 3 times like a broken pencil there's no point.

Sometimes I've to flush the toilet 3 times.
All good things come (or go) in 3's !!!

Sorry
Can't do a smiley face with this phone.

ps. No problem with our difference of
opinions here, see ya.

esox28 · 17-06-2014 7:44am

Haha, im going to cork for the hoildays this year...ill bring you down a special wc it has a power-a-flush! Wan flush does plenty!

Dtp1979 · 17-06-2014 8:04am

scudo2 wrote: »

Agree on power flushing.
Disagree on removing rads.
House only 5-6 years old.
I'd even question the economic value of replacing boiler as most are a reasonably good design for the last ten years, unless it's undersized.
I'd sooner go down the zone and control route.
Draining system 3 times is only a DIY recommendation for him. Not everyone has a power flushing equipment.

I've seen houses 1-2 years old with bad sludge

17-06-2014 10:37am

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I've seen houses 1-2 years old with bad sludge

6 months for me and a autofiller was involved.

scudo2 · 17-06-2014 11:15am

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I've seen houses 1-2 years old with bad sludge

Feck , I'm lucky then, as I've only once had a problem. GB system lying idle for two years, one section blocked SOLID, disconnected downstairs F&R, tried mate with power flush, tried water mains to it 65ps tried compressed air. Nothing passed.Not a drop.
Lucky middle Rad of three was moved with Q pex under concrete, disconnected it and rodded F&R both ways with hard wire to break up solid sludge. Got lucky. It worked. Then power flushed.
That's the only one I got caught on, and I replace quite a few every summer.
But I do cherry pick them.

Tracyk · 19-06-2014 12:36am

But guys what about if ye were replacing a boiler in a very old house (old heating system) ye wouldn't be power flushing that heating system with all the leaks that could spring up. What's sort of flush would ye do in that instance, And how would that affect the warranty of the boiler?

Dtp1979 · 19-06-2014 8:06am

Tracyk wrote: »

But guys what about if ye were replacing a boiler in a very old house (old heating system) ye wouldn't be power flushing that heating system with all the leaks that could spring up. What's sort of flush would ye do in that instance, And how would that affect the warranty of the boiler?

Why wouldn't you flush an old house?
It's not a high pressure operation

Tracyk · 20-06-2014 12:34am

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Why wouldn't you flush an old house?
It's not a high pressure operation

I've heard that you should not powerflush a very old heating system because the chances are the powerflush will cause leaks.

Why is this not true? So you can powerflush any heating system of any age?

Dtp1979 · 20-06-2014 4:29am

Tracyk wrote: »

I've heard that you should not powerflush a very old heating system because the chances are the powerflush will cause leaks.

Why is this not true? So you can powerflush any heating system of any age?

You heard wrong. Yes any age. The only system I'd be concerned by would be a 40 year old GB system.
Powerflushing does not cause leaks. Once sludge is removed, it may expose a leak that the sludge was covering up.

Sir Arthur Daley · 20-06-2014 4:35am

What is the life time on gb?

Dtp1979 · 20-06-2014 7:14am

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

What is the life time on gb?

Generally about 30 + yrs but I still see systems today 40+

agusta · 20-06-2014 3:18pm

scudo2 wrote: »

Wrong

Just slightly vent rads, all you need is water/heat in the bottom, you'll feel the heat.

If self commissioning, which I don't recommend, follow instruction book to the letter. Ask boiler manufactures if its ok,as there's a problem with insurance in my opinion.
Manufactures info is basic and don't cover everything.[/QUO
Tracyk is a blueflame certified technician,In my opinion he can fit and self commission the boiler as he is qualified to do so and still maintain the warranty with the boiler manufacturer

Dtp1979 · 20-06-2014 3:20pm

agusta wrote: »

scudo2 wrote: »

Wrong

Just slightly vent rads, all you need is water/heat in the bottom, you'll feel the heat.

If self commissioning, which I don't recommend, follow instruction book to the letter. Ask boiler manufactures if its ok,as there's a problem with insurance in my opinion.
Manufactures info is basic and don't cover everything.[/QUO
Tracyk is a blueflame certified technician,In my opinion he can fit and self commission the boiler as he is qualified to do so and still maintain the warranty with the boiler manufacturer

Only a plumber should be fitting the boiler. Fair enough, if he has an analyser he can commission it.

Wearb · 20-06-2014 4:09pm

esox28 wrote: »

Haha, im going to cork for the hoildays this year...ill bring you down a special wc it has a power-a-flush! Wan flush does plenty!

Local holiday tip...................stay upstream of scudo's house.

Tracyk · 20-06-2014 6:07pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

agusta wrote: »

Only a plumber should be fitting the boiler. Fair enough, if he has an analyser he can commission it.

Im also a qualified plumber.

I'll be undertaking all the work as qualified to do so.

Dtp1979 · 20-06-2014 6:22pm

Tracyk wrote: »

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Im also a qualified plumber.

I'll be undertaking all the work as qualified to do so.

If your a qualified plumber then why are you asking us here if it's necessary to flush a system when you surely know it is??

Tracyk · 20-06-2014 6:55pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Tracyk wrote: »

If your a qualified plumber then why are you asking us here if it's necessary to flush a system when you surely know it is??

Because I don't have powerflushing equipment and I wanted to see what was your opinions on the next best way to flush a system.

jimf · 20-06-2014 7:17pm

as your going to save on the installation and commissioning of the boiler why not see if any of the lads on here are near to you and you might be able to get a special boards price wink wink for a powerflush

scudo2 · 20-06-2014 9:05pm

Commissioned a Combi oil boiler today for one of the most professional plumbers I know.
Pressure vessel was flat.
Sometimes it's good to have a second opinion.

Photo is work by same plumber on a different job, he's good but not perfect.

Tracyk · 20-06-2014 9:50pm

scudo2 wrote: »

Commissioned a Combi oil boiler today for one of the most professional plumbers I know.
Pressure vessel was flat.
Sometimes it's good to have a second opinion.

Photo is work by same plumber on a different job, he's good but not perfect.

What training centre did you take that picture :-)

anthonyos · 20-06-2014 9:57pm

scudo2 wrote: »

Commissioned a Combi oil boiler today for one of the most professional plumbers I know.
Pressure vessel was flat.
Sometimes it's good to have a second opinion.

Photo is work by same plumber on a different job, he's good but not perfect.

Ffs it must of taken him a month to do that

scudo2 · 20-06-2014 10:16pm

anthonyos wrote: »

Ffs it must of taken him a month to do that

Didn't know who the plumber was when customer called me, but I betted he's 1 of 3 names I could give.
He was.

ps. It's in utility room, customer thinks it's an eye sore and wants it boxed in.!!!!

Dtp1979 · 20-06-2014 10:24pm

scudo2 wrote: »

Didn't know who the plumber was when customer called me, but I betted he's 1 of 3 names I could give.
He was.

ps. It's in utility room, customer thinks it's an eye sore and wants it boxed in.!!!!

Make sure they paint them white first to make a right sh1te of them

Flushing system before installing oil boiler

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