Spreading lime on land

kay 9 · 24-03-2011 12:08am

johngalway wrote: »

Are ye having to put out granulated lime each year?

From what I understand the ground(?) lime takes a year to work but lasts much much longer in the ground?

Correct me if am wrong.

We put it out the back end of last year. Again about 2 weeks ago. So thats it again for 2 years. Yes John the ground lime will last longer but one also must wait longer for it to work. Our land is quite shallow anyway so the gran lime is a better job. It's not the golden vale where the lime has a better chance of lasting;)

kay 9 · 24-03-2011 12:11am

reilig wrote: »

Collected granulated lime yesterday at EUR6 per 50kg bag.

Its getting cheap!!

Where and what brand? Cheers

Bodacious · 24-03-2011 12:24am

reilig wrote: »

Collected granulated lime yesterday at EUR6 per 50kg bag.

Its getting cheap!!

Wow that is good i ordered it today too and thought i was doing well @EU8.50

bbam · 13-09-2012 2:46pm

lisaj wrote: »

Anyone know of any quarries in Meath that'll do about 20 tonnes delivered, but not spread at a good price?

There is a quarry in Meathill near Kingscourt but I'm not sure who it's ran by.

whelan1 · 13-09-2012 5:18pm

johnny fox spreads in that area, he gets it for you and spreads it 0872630112

Black Smoke · 13-09-2012 7:45pm

Whilst we are on the subject of spreading stuff this time of year. Is now the best time to spread P and K on silage ground in particular? Seem to remember we used to do it like that when I was a nipper. Then just nitrogen in the spring.
Just waiting for soil sample results and no doubt I will need to top up with P and K. P in particular I expect.

1chippy · 13-09-2012 11:48pm

bbam wrote: »

There is a quarry in Meathill near Kingscourt but I'm not sure who it's ran by.[/Quote
limestone industries ltd mokerrin
salesmans no. 0879176430

stanflt · 14-09-2012 12:03am

limestone industries co monaghan

JohnBoy · 03-10-2012 9:36am

We need to put out 2t of lime to the acre, what's the story with grazing afterwards? Is it ok once the first shower of rain falls or does it need to left wash in for a while, or should it be left all winter?

I suppose I'm asking do I have to wait until the ground is closed for the winter or could I spread away if ground conditions came right.

Any thoughts??

Black Smoke · 03-10-2012 12:51pm

Does anybody remember the good old days, spreading slag, instead of lime:D
You would be like a negro after it!

Didn't know you could still get it ..... http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/fertilisers/3984211

Old guys, had great belief in it to "sweeten", the grass:P

ootbitb · 03-10-2012 1:02pm

JohnBoy wrote: »

We need to put out 2t of lime to the acre, what's the story with grazing afterwards? Is it ok once the first shower of rain falls or does it need to left wash in for a while, or should it be left all winter?

I suppose I'm asking do I have to wait until the ground is closed for the winter or could I spread away if ground conditions came right.

Any thoughts??

I put them straight back in with no bad consequences.

Username John · 03-10-2012 1:16pm

Black Smoke wrote: »

Does anybody remember the good old days, spreading slag, instead of lime:D
You would be like a negro after it!

Didn't know you could still get it ..... http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/fertilisers/3984211

Old guys, had great belief in it to "sweeten", the grass:P

Interesting... Anyone here ever use it?

Username John · 03-10-2012 1:32pm

JohnBoy wrote: »

We need to put out 2t of lime to the acre, what's the story with grazing afterwards? Is it ok once the first shower of rain falls or does it need to left wash in for a while, or should it be left all winter?

I suppose I'm asking do I have to wait until the ground is closed for the winter or could I spread away if ground conditions came right.

Any thoughts??

My opinion (not based on experience or any facts, just my thinking)

I'd wait for it to be rained in at least... so its taken into the ground. I don't think it would do anything any harm. But its for the soil, so I would have thought its better for it to get to the soil, and do its job, rather than have to go through an animal to get to the soil (if it was still on the grass)

Again - just my opinion... Could be totally wrong here...

tabby aspreme · 03-10-2012 9:51pm

That super slag is now being shipped in bulk into Waterford, quoted mid fifties delivered not spread 70 miles from Waterford , if a tonne has the same neutralizing effect as a tonne of lime + 40 units of P and trace elements it might be ok don't think its as concentrated as the old slag though .

The lad on done deal put up a post advertising on here last week and the mods scrapped it straight away

lottos owner · 25-08-2016 5:06pm

Username John wrote: »

I paid 18euro / ton for lime the start of this year, for 40 tons, this was from a well known supplier in Cork.
I found another place that will deliver it for 15euro/ton, this is from another quarry, not sure what this is like now, havent heard anything about it only price...

where was the 15 euro a ton?

TalkingBull · 25-08-2016 6:31pm

tabby aspreme wrote: »

That super slag is now being shipped in bulk into Waterford, quoted mid fifties delivered not spread 70 miles from Waterford , if a tonne has the same neutralizing effect as a tonne of lime + 40 units of P and trace elements it might be ok don't think its as concentrated as the old slag though .

The lad on done deal put up a post advertising on here last week and the mods scrapped it straight away

anyone had slag spread/delivered? was there much response from grass? im guessing its in bulk loads its delivered same as lime..

Sam Kade · 25-08-2016 6:56pm

emmemm wrote: »

if you know somone with a lorry considerable savings can be made.

Yeah, they'll draw it for half price, the same goes for silage contractors.

Farrell · 25-08-2016 10:42pm

TalkingBull wrote: »

anyone had slag spread/delivered? was there much response from grass? im guessing its in bulk loads its delivered same as lime..

Spread it earlier in the year, noticed grass growing through the rushes.
Bought it in 50kg bags.

Hobby farmer · 26-08-2016 1:51am

Farrell wrote: »

Spread it earlier in the year, noticed grass growing through the rushes.
Bought it in 50kg bags.

7 years later?

Farrell · 26-08-2016 7:47am

Hobby farmer wrote: »

7 years later?

Slag is supposed to last 2-2.5 years

Keepgrowing · 26-08-2016 9:43am

adne wrote: »

It roughly 480 for a 20 tonne loa delivered and spread. 24 euro a tonne

Spread 250 tonne on Mon/Tuesday. €19/tonne spread

Regardless of how many tonne required I'd only spread 2 tonne per acre at a time.

Soil sample will tell you ph. In my view all fields should be soil samples annually if one is farming above 2 Lu/ha other wise sample low index annually and rest every 2 yrs. it's ine of the best returning money one can spend

White Clover · 26-08-2016 11:07am

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Spread 250 tonne on Mon/Tuesday. €19/tonne spread

Regardless of how many tonne required I'd only spread 2 tonne per acre at a time.

Soil sample will tell you ph. In my view all fields should be soil samples annually if one is farming above 2 Lu/ha other wise sample low index annually and rest every 2 yrs. it's ine of the best returning money one can spend

You're spot on when you say it's the best money one could spend. I spread approx 75% of the farm last year, 1.75T/acre (high Mo area here).
The difference in the quality and quantity of grass is really obvious. Doing the remaining 25% this year if we get another bit of drying and will be spreading again next year.

yosemitesam1 · 26-08-2016 11:13am

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Spread 250 tonne on Mon/Tuesday. €19/tonne spread

Regardless of how many tonne required I'd only spread 2 tonne per acre at a time.

Soil sample will tell you ph. In my view all fields should be soil samples annually if one is farming above 2 Lu/ha other wise sample low index annually and rest every 2 yrs. it's ine of the best returning money one can spend

Worth noting that ph doesnt always tell the full story, you could have a high ph and need lime or a low ph and only need magnesium

jfh · 26-08-2016 2:14pm

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Spread 250 tonne on Mon/Tuesday. €19/tonne spread

Regardless of how many tonne required I'd only spread 2 tonne per acre at a time.

Soil sample will tell you ph. In my view all fields should be soil samples annually if one is farming above 2 Lu/ha other wise sample low index annually and rest every 2 yrs. it's ine of the best returning money one can spend

that's a lot cheaper than i'm paying, 24/ tonne spread

Hobby farmer · 26-08-2016 3:21pm

Farrell wrote: »

Slag is supposed to last 2-2.5 years

Sincere apologies I landed home with a few in me and only read the first and last comments on the thread! Then decided a snide comment was the way forward.

Keepgrowing · 26-08-2016 4:03pm

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Worth noting that ph doesnt always tell the full story, you could have a high ph and need lime or a low ph and only need magnesium

How do you know what exactly is required?

mahoney_j · 26-08-2016 4:17pm

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Spread 250 tonne on Mon/Tuesday. €19/tonne spread

Regardless of how many tonne required I'd only spread 2 tonne per acre at a time.

Soil sample will tell you ph. In my view all fields should be soil samples annually if one is farming above 2 Lu/ha other wise sample low index annually and rest every 2 yrs. it's ine of the best returning money one can spend

19 euro tonne ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜23 spread here .still cheap fertliser and should be starting point in correcting soil fertility on any farm

Waffletraktor · 26-08-2016 5:03pm

Keepgrowing wrote: »

adne wrote: »

It roughly 480 for a 20 tonne loa delivered and spread. 24 euro a tonne

Spread 250 tonne on Mon/Tuesday. 19/tonne spread

Regardless of how many tonne required I'd only spread 2 tonne per acre at a time.

Soil sample will tell you ph. In my view all fields should be soil samples annually if one is farming above 2 Lu/ha other wise sample low index annually and rest every 2 yrs. it's ine of the best returning money one can spend

If outputs your thing drainage and ph related issues correcting are the cheapest investment

jfh · 26-08-2016 5:05pm

If you don't mind me asking, what part of the country are ye getting it for 19€

freedominacup · 26-08-2016 8:13pm

jfh wrote: »

If you don't mind me asking, what part of the country are ye getting it for 19€

I have a suspicion he can see the quarry. Close enough to shout the order in. General consensus at our last dg meeting was €22-23 spread. Around an hour from the quarries.

yosemitesam1 · 26-08-2016 8:23pm

Keepgrowing wrote: »

How do you know what exactly is required?

This explains it fairly well but keep in mind that its more of an art than an exact science because you're always going to be trying to balance unknowns.

http://www.soilminerals.com/Cation_Exchange_Simplified.htm

A base saturation test of a mix of your best and worse fields might show up something interesting that could be corrected overtime but in your case I doubt there's much room for improvement with your growth figures but possibly something worth watching over longer term to avoid messing up whatever ratios are currently getting results.

rangler1 · 26-08-2016 9:39pm

Had a demonstration of this on my farm today.
Looks a bit gimmicky to me, mixing lime with the fertiliser and spraying it on.
Anyone know anything about it
Supposed to be all the rage in New zealand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhFUWjs8iQY

Waffletraktor · 26-08-2016 9:44pm

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

This explains it fairly well but keep in mind that its more of an art than an exact science because you're always going to be trying to balance unknowns.

http://www.soilminerals.com/Cation_Exchange_Simplified.htm

A base saturation test of a mix of your best and worse fields might show up something interesting that could be corrected overtime but in your case I doubt there's much room for improvement with your growth figures but possibly something worth watching over longer term to avoid messing up whatever ratios are currently getting results.

Taking tissue samples a few times over a season is the only true measure of what's there and is actually available. Soil samples just say it's there.

freedominacup · 26-08-2016 10:52pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Taking tissue samples a few times over a season is the only true measure of what's there and is actually available. Soil samples just say it's there.

How much variance do you see between the basic soil sample and the tissue sample?

Keepgrowing · 26-08-2016 11:31pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

If outputs your thing drainage and ph related issues correcting are the cheapest investment

Drainage is not an issue here. Not one meter of drainage pipe on the cow block.
Very lucky. A couple or three springs piped to a river is all

Boys ground

Keepgrowing · 26-08-2016 11:32pm

freedominacup wrote: »

I have a suspicion he can see the quarry. Close enough to shout the order in. General consensus at our last dg meeting was €22-23 spread. Around an hour from the quarries.

6 miles

Waffletraktor · 26-08-2016 11:47pm

freedominacup wrote: »

How much variance do you see between the basic soil sample and the tissue sample?

"soil analysis to give you a snapshot (which may be less specific which is its drawback) and then tissue to give you real time (and its drawback is that it is momentary)"
Depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go!
Have fields mapped for soil type and yield mapping(tools to help catch up on what a farmer will know about their fields over a good few years more so) to say whats produced to 1.5% yield accuracy what i have been banging the combine dealers door down for is a machine to tell the analysis of grain quality/contents(milk record every cow, every milking) on the fly, its on a bench in most merchants office just not on the combine.
Its not that theres a big difference its more fine tuning things(put out less inputs) to the optimum,try dig out a few results of tests on the same area. When your maxing out your output and inputs like most the dairy guys are/close to its a bit like using samples as a spot light into the dark vs a narrower beam of tissue sampling to focus in on an issue. Of course its the cost issue of all this as to if its worth the hassel and as we are here are coming from virtually sterile fertilised soils vs high om well fertilised grass which is normally a good indicator of soil health so long as you dont do damage with cows/machinery in the wet. Just bewary of like yosemitesam said of something going wrong. Its arable focused but give this a read to get an idea for such a flaky response as its down so much to ones own interpretation, anyone who claims to be an expert slap them in the face especially if trying to sell you something!!

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/albrecht-versus-conventional-soil-testing-my-experiments.712/

Dawggone · 27-08-2016 8:42am

Waffletraktor wrote: »

"soil analysis to give you a snapshot (which may be less specific which is its drawback) and then tissue to give you real time (and its drawback is that it is momentary)"
Depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go!
Have fields mapped for soil type and yield mapping(tools to help catch up on what a farmer will know about their fields over a good few years more so) to say whats produced to 1.5% yield accuracy what i have been banging the combine dealers door down for is a machine to tell the analysis of grain quality/contents(milk record every cow, every milking) on the fly, its on a bench in most merchants office just not on the combine.
Its not that theres a big difference its more fine tuning things(put out less inputs) to the optimum,try dig out a few results of tests on the same area. When your maxing out your output and inputs like most the dairy guys are/close to its a bit like using samples as a spot light into the dark vs a narrower beam of tissue sampling to focus in on an issue. Of course its the cost issue of all this as to if its worth the hassel and as we are here are coming from virtually sterile fertilised soils vs high om well fertilised grass which is normally a good indicator of soil health so long as you dont do damage with cows/machinery in the wet. Just bewary of like yosemitesam said of something going wrong. Its arable focused but give this a read to get an idea for such a flaky response as its down so much to ones own interpretation, anyone who claims to be an expert slap them in the face especially if trying to sell you something!!

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/albrecht-versus-conventional-soil-testing-my-experiments.712/

+1. Good post.

I spent a lot of money on soil and tissue analysis at home. This was on worn tillage ground that was very low on OM, and as you say 'how far down the rabbit hole do you want to go?'...
I now have high OM soils that are well drained and free of compaction, and it makes it all so easy...now weak/poor patches, very little chemical fertilisers, no trace element deficiencies etc.
Get the ph right, look after soil structure, and lots of fym.

Water is also highly important, not too much (compaction) or too little (drought).

Easy enough to see consequences of drought...

Mooooo · 27-08-2016 11:04am

Would any of ye use the albrecht soil analysis?

Keepgrowing · 28-08-2016 12:01pm

Where do ye guys stand on the value of FYM?
Love the stuff here, wouldn't be mad about the spreading under the cattle but love spreading the end result on ground.

Converted a tillage farm to grass in 05 and it took 5 yrs to get up to the poorest performing paddocks on home block. Spread all our FYM on it for the 5 yrs, turned it inside out. One particular paddock was growing 8 tonne for 2 yrs after grassing has grown 18 as last Sunday. It's probably on target for >20 tonne this year.

We now concentrate FYM on the bottom performing 25% each October. A figure I've somewhere in my head is that each 4*4 bale of barley straw imported has €5-6 of P value. Am I off my rocker?

patsy_mccabe · 28-08-2016 1:16pm

FYM is just slurry plus straw when you think about. Often wonder if you could get cheap straw, say half rotten stuff, how would the economics stack up for spreading it on poor land.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 28-08-2016 1:35pm

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Where do ye guys stand on the value of FYM?
Love the stuff here, wouldn't be mad about the spreading under the cattle but love spreading the end result on ground.

Converted a tillage farm to grass in 05 and it took 5 yrs to get up to the poorest performing paddocks on home block. Spread all our FYM on it for the 5 yrs, turned it inside out. One particular paddock was growing 8 tonne for 2 yrs after grassing has grown 18 as last Sunday. It's probably on target for >20 tonne this year.

We now concentrate FYM on the bottom performing 25% each October. A figure I've somewhere in my head is that each 4*4 bale of barley straw imported has €5-6 of P value. Am I off my rocker?

We still bed the dry stock on straw. We look at straw as quota free P and spread on the poorest land each year. Slats are handier from a management point of view though.

yosemitesam1 · 28-08-2016 2:23pm

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Where do ye guys stand on the value of FYM?
Love the stuff here, wouldn't be mad about the spreading under the cattle but love spreading the end result on ground.

Converted a tillage farm to grass in 05 and it took 5 yrs to get up to the poorest performing paddocks on home block. Spread all our FYM on it for the 5 yrs, turned it inside out. One particular paddock was growing 8 tonne for 2 yrs after grassing has grown 18 as last Sunday. It's probably on target for >20 tonne this year.

We now concentrate FYM on the bottom performing 25% each October. A figure I've somewhere in my head is that each 4*4 bale of barley straw imported has €5-6 of P value. Am I off my rocker?

There is definitely value in it that cant be measured on paper, plant diversity is another way of getting life back into soil fast

Mooooo · 28-08-2016 3:10pm

Local contractor here does 16mth bulls on straw bedding when inside and even tho they have barley rotating around the farm they never plough in the dung, claims there's more out of it spreading on top of the land in the autumn

Dawggone · 28-08-2016 3:26pm

Fym is not just N-P-K+S.

It feeds the bacteria in the soil and adds OM, unlocks micro elements, creates a correct balance in the soil etc etc.

Ploughing down is not the best way to use it. Spread in autumn and watch it disappear with worm action. Extraordinary natural fertiliser.

The older mixed farming systems of bygone days were the perfect soils...

Dawggone · 28-08-2016 3:27pm

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

There is definitely value in it that cant be measured on paper, plant diversity is another way of getting life back into soil fast

+1.

Keepgrowing · 28-08-2016 4:12pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

FYM is just slurry plus straw when you think about. Often wonder if you could get cheap straw, say half rotten stuff, how would the economics stack up for spreading it on poor land.

No even close. Never see worms coming up to drag it down. I'd gladly swap all our slurry for dung

rangler1 · 28-08-2016 4:30pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

FYM is just slurry plus straw when you think about. Often wonder if you could get cheap straw, say half rotten stuff, how would the economics stack up for spreading it on poor land.

It's probably the combination that works. mix the slurry with the straw and turn it a few times.....must say the dung outa the sheep shed is rocket fuel when it's turned a few times and there wouldn't be a lot of sheep dung in it

jfh · 28-08-2016 4:54pm

rangler1 wrote: »

It's probably the combination that works. mix the slurry with the straw and turn it a few times.....must say the dung outa the sheep shed is rocket fuel when it's turned a few times and there wouldn't be a lot of sheep dung in it

Agree with this,

White Clover · 28-08-2016 4:54pm

Slurry/dung is a very variable fertilizer. It mostly depends on what the animals are being fed while they're on it.
Feeding silage only which has come off of low index fields will produce very poor slurry/dung compared to feeding a high concentrate diet/silage from high index fields.

Animals do not make p&K.

Spreading lime on land

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