building milking parlour

jayk1 · 06-11-2013 10:13pm #1

hi all, thinking of starting up dairy on the home farm again. have a lofted 16.6ft x 4 span long dairy on the farm no longer in use. was a 8unit 3ftcentres parlour in it with room for 2 more units.
seeing as ya would be milking for d nxt 30+ years, would you get the old shed up and goin with a 3ft parlour or widen it n go for 2.6, 2.4 parlour?

Timmaay · 06-11-2013 10:27pm

Widen and go for 2ft6 centers! 3ft centers are annoying with any sort of kickers, cows can move back and forward too much, say you have a small cow behind a big cow, can be hard to get at her. And then you have more walking with the 3ft centers.

How deep is the pit in it also? Many older pits are too shallow, meaning too much bending over, your back will be in bits after a yr or so.

jayk1 · 06-11-2013 11:37pm

depth of pit is grand, its at waist height dont know the exact measurement. what length of shed would you need for a 10 or 12 unit 2,6center parlour including dairy?

Timmaay · 06-11-2013 11:47pm

Teagasc have sample drawings up for some common parlours, I don't know where on their website they are now 2bh, but do a search and you should find them. They include all the measurements etc, very useful.

bbam · 07-11-2013 9:59am

You never mentioned how many cows you plan to milk. That's where you start thinking of unit numbers.

If you can put in 10 units at 3ft without more work and expense, it will easily get you by for 50 cows.

jayk1 · 11-11-2013 10:31pm

plan to milk 70 - 80cows unless i can swap land with nieghbours to mayb go to 100. 3ft centres would work but easier to do renovation now than when i am milking ya know, i would be inclined to widen the shed and have cows at better angles n shorter pit!

fiat10090dt · 11-11-2013 11:49pm

u can move uints back on 3ft centers and milk from behind ,i have fitted to of these parlours in pasted and have worked well 10 uints are plenty for 70&80cows

jayk1 · 12-11-2013 12:06am

would you put in straight rump rail or zig zag? also there is straight concrete troughs still in d shed or would zig zag steel troughs be better for cows standing?

Timmaay · 12-11-2013 12:11am

If there is a straight concrete trough, and its in ok nick, then I would fire in zigzag rails. I'm not sure if you can get them to suit 3ft centres?

Thats assuming you aren't planning on any sort of high input cows who will need individual troughs for feed to yield in the parlour?

Castlekeeper · 12-11-2013 12:21am

jayk1 wrote: »

would you put in straight rump rail or zig zag? also there is straight concrete troughs still in d shed or would zig zag steel troughs be better for cows standing?

If you have functioning straight troughs, put in a zig zag rump rail, it's one or the other anyway. Steel troughs will cost money and will rust.

Put in your 10 units at 3', the only reason people went less than 2'6" was to squeeze in cows, the straighter the cow is the better for cow flow. 10 units will milk up to 100, ideal for 80, make your money first and build your fancy parlour when you need it, i.e. 120 cows. Nobody has problems with cows kicking unless there's something bad wrong.
Talk to local Teagasc man about joining a discussion group and go to see plenty parlours. Be wary of sales men.

jayk1 · 12-11-2013 12:22am

well the concrete trough on one side was removed, other in ok condition. no feed to yield or anything to start with or anything anyway. another option could be to narrow the pit to 4ft n use 2.6 centers any experience of this?

fiat10090dt · 12-11-2013 12:22am

i'd take out troughs and put in mangers those troughs are a balls cow get up into them and **** around , any cow high output and low input still has to be feed ,The cow stavers dont tell about the 25 to 35% of there cows who have be culled or go dead lorrie

fiat10090dt · 12-11-2013 12:27am

4ft pit works well just have nothing hanging down ,shorter pluse tuber and milk tubes = better airflow at end of long milk tube = faster milking

jayk1 · 12-11-2013 12:39am

have nothing hanging down as in swing over clusters? what about teat sprayers n hoses?

fiat10090dt · 12-11-2013 12:42am

swing over no arms needed no drop hoses ,one long hose for teat spary works well

jayk1 · 12-11-2013 12:47am

so get swing over? never seen one long hose for teat spray. would you be inclined to stay at 3ft centers or narrow the pit by a foot n go 2.6?

fiat10090dt · 12-11-2013 12:53am

simple swing over 2x2 pulasion 200to300cc claws 3"milkline 3"pulasionline ,i'd go for 2ft6" centres if u have to put in new stall its easy to change centers and 3ft&2ft6" mangers are same price

jayk1 · 12-11-2013 1:09am

yea that sounds like a good setup, would also like to put in a dumpline from the start, so much easier milking with one i feel. loft for meal not ideal but better than spending money on bin and augers?

fiat10090dt · 12-11-2013 1:26am

even u have dump line u still need dump buckets for bestings ,i never see point in dumplines on small parlours just need more water detergent ,loft will be grand lots of sh feeders come on dd latley
where bouts ru?

jayk1 · 12-11-2013 1:34am

people say cows dont like low dark parlours but i suppose with lights and them being used to it, it wouldn't matter. i'm in wexford. also what about jars? suppose with 4ft pit jars would be in the way?

fiat10090dt · 12-11-2013 1:44am

no space for jars in 4ft pit just keep it simple

jayk1 · 12-11-2013 1:46am

what size bulk tank would i need for 70cows in peak for 3day collection?

fiat10090dt · 12-11-2013 1:47am

1000 to 1200 gallon

TEAT SQUEEZER · 12-11-2013 11:40am

jayk1 wrote: »

what size bulk tank would i need for 70cows in peak for 3day collection?

1500 gal min imo ..leave yourself room for periods of high bursts of milk ( may usually)and some expansion oppertunities.... no real savings on buying smaller tank

Timmaay · 12-11-2013 12:24pm

Esp if you go the grant route. Was looking for a tank around the 1500gls myself, and ended up getting 2400, very little in the diff in the end price to you.

J DEERE · 12-11-2013 12:55pm

I think you should go milk in a few milking parlours first so you can get a feel for it. Used do relief milking, milked in a lot of parlours. Nicest and quickest was a 10 unit with no gimmicks or frills just the clusters and teat spray lines. Milked 100 cows in an hour. Milked in a 16 unit with everything, found it a nightmare and took longer. Cow flow is the most important thing in a parlour I think. Get them in and out fast

jayk1 · 13-11-2013 12:14am

i've milked in a few different parlours over the years, nicest was a 10 unit swing over with dumpline, basic parlour after that, cow flow is is very important, i wouldnt be too fussed on frills as long as it works well n lasts

J DEERE · 13-11-2013 1:50am

jayk1 wrote: »

i've milked in a few different parlours over the years, nicest was a 10 unit swing over with dumpline, basic parlour after that, cow flow is is very important, i wouldnt be too fussed on frills as long as it works well n lasts

The need for a dumpline would depend on the amount of cows you will milk. Fierce handy in the spring if you have autumn calving cows but otherwise wouldn't really see the need

TEAT SQUEEZER · 13-11-2013 2:02am

my theory on dumplines is if youve got enough cows to take, milk em last , pull the pipe out of tank and hey presto you gotta dumpline made outta your milking line... other wise use a bucket for the odd one ..

jayk1 · 13-11-2013 2:12am

ive held cows behind to milk last before n after using dumpline jst less hassle. but money will determine putting one in or not.

different topic; do yas think it will be hard to get co-ops to take new milk after 2015 if alot of lads get into it?

TEAT SQUEEZER · 13-11-2013 2:21am

dont think so ... no such thing as a free lunch however ... glanbia will look for 2c/l on new milk and a minimum shareholding is loosly enforced but there all the same... where are u located

jayk1 · 13-11-2013 2:26am

im in wexford, auld lad used to produce for premier, so id probably be going glanbia. yea i heard bout the 2c/l levy for the new plant there building.

TEAT SQUEEZER · 13-11-2013 2:34am

jayk1 wrote: »

im in wexford, auld lad used to produce for premier, so id probably be going glanbia. yea i heard bout the 2c/l levy for the new plant there building.

will see the share requirements being enforced more in the future imo... old ratio of 1 coop share per 25 gals wold cost a nice bit for 100k gallons for example esp after the last spin out share price is only going to go one way... maybe 3 euros a share who knows more even

jersey101 · 23-11-2013 7:44pm

Uncle came down today and gave me a rough estimate for the parlour. He fits fullwood parlours. For 12 units and for what i wanted he reckoned €2,500 - €3,000 a unit. That includes a pipe big enough for 20 units, a dump line, he's going to use the old milk line and pump and jars for that, a low line wash unit and swing over arms. He was recommending the swing over arms because my pit is wide and it would suit. What do ye think good price?

I got a quote last week for a mueller tank also, for 12k it was coming in at 27k and if i wanted to put on better conpressors it was 30k, ill think ill get a better deal else were

dar31 · 23-11-2013 8:32pm

jersey101 wrote: »

Uncle came down today and gave me a rough estimate for the parlour. He fits fullwood parlours. For 12 units and for what i wanted he reckoned €2,500 - €3,000 a unit. That includes a pipe big enough for 20 units, a dump line, he's going to use the old milk line and pump and jars for that, a low line wash unit and swing over arms. He was recommending the swing over arms because my pit is wide and it would suit. What do ye think good price?

I got a quote last week for a mueller tank also, for 12k it was coming in at 27k and if i wanted to put on better conpressors it was 30k, ill think ill get a better deal else were

i wouldnt believe a word that lad said,
did your family farm over east wicklow direction years ago?

Timmaay · 23-11-2013 9:32pm

Well I told ya the deal I got on the 11k darakool tank before Jersey, I'd say that price will be hard to beat. Is your current parlour a fullwood? On the swingovers, yeh very common now, they surely don't add much expense at all, its only a bar of steel on a hinge!

Hughs fullwood parlour in rathdrum took yrs to be finished from what I heard, you'd want to do a deal that the parlour is going to be done in a set timeframe, or there will be deductions to the end price paid!! Actually seeing as you are replacing the existing parlour, and are in wintermilk, how are you going to milk while the parlour is being put in? I'm looking at a parlour upgrade also at the second, the hassle of this is making me think twice about a new shed for the parlour.

jaymla627 · 23-11-2013 11:55pm

Timmaay wrote: »

Well I told ya the deal I got on the 11k darakool tank before Jersey, I'd say that price will be hard to beat. Is your current parlour a fullwood? On the swingovers, yeh very common now, they surely don't add much expense at all, its only a bar of steel on a hinge!

Hughs fullwood parlour in rathdrum took yrs to be finished from what I heard, you'd want to do a deal that the parlour is going to be done in a set timeframe, or there will be deductions to the end price paid!! Actually seeing as you are replacing the existing parlour, and are in wintermilk, how are you going to milk while the parlour is being put in? I'm looking at a parlour upgrade also at the second, the hassle of this is making me think twice about a new shed for the parlour.

250 a unit for a swingover frame, over-rated a good midline unit set-up right is twice as quick

jersey101 · 24-11-2013 12:41am

jaymla627 wrote: »

250 a unit for a swingover frame, over-rated a good midline unit set-up right is twice as quick

fullwood have a new one coming out its 160 a unit. It has the stainless steel ram on it already. To put the milk meters and removers then is 800e extra

jersey101 · 24-11-2013 12:42am

dar31 wrote: »

i wouldnt believe a word that lad said,
did your family farm over east wicklow direction years ago?

yep in avoca. Ten years ago now

jersey101 · 24-11-2013 12:46am

Timmaay wrote: »

Well I told ya the deal I got on the 11k darakool tank before Jersey, I'd say that price will be hard to beat. Is your current parlour a fullwood? On the swingovers, yeh very common now, they surely don't add much expense at all, its only a bar of steel on a hinge!

Hughs fullwood parlour in rathdrum took yrs to be finished from what I heard, you'd want to do a deal that the parlour is going to be done in a set timeframe, or there will be deductions to the end price paid!! Actually seeing as you are replacing the existing parlour, and are in wintermilk, how are you going to milk while the parlour is being put in? I'm looking at a parlour upgrade also at the second, the hassle of this is making me think twice about a new shed for the parlour.

ye im getting quotes on the packo tank and the dari kool, there both the same tanks either way.
Well if dairymaster can put in parlours in 3 days i say it could be done quite promptly if i said so, its simple enough though. If he had 3 or 4 8 hour days it could be put in id say.
Ye but hugh got held up with grants and money and all being held up, so i was told any way.

dungfly · 24-11-2013 1:03am

jersey101 wrote: »

fullwood have a new one coming out its 160 a unit. It has the stainless steel ram on it already. To put the milk meters and removers then is 800e extra

Who uses milk metres, is it mainly winter milkers? Can they be justified for a 70 cow herd in spring calving?

800 quid a unit for metres. This is only measuring vol and conductivity. Does this not seen very expensive. Conductivity should be very cheap and single to measure me thinks!

jersey101 · 24-11-2013 1:40am

dungfly wrote: »

Who uses milk metres, is it mainly winter milkers? Can they be justified for a 70 cow herd in spring calving?

800 quid a unit for metres. This is only measuring vol and conductivity. Does this not seen very expensive. Conductivity should be very cheap and single to measure me thinks!

they all come in the one now, meters and removers. I certainly wont be putting in meters or removers, ill extend the parlour to the 20 units before i do that.
If you have everything else you want done on the farm then ye might aswell spend it on the parlour. Ill never put big money into a parlour though

delaval · 24-11-2013 8:41am

jersey101 wrote: »

they all come in the one now, meters and removers. I certainly wont be putting in meters or removers, ill extend the parlour to the 20 units before i do that.
If you have everything else you want done on the farm then ye might aswell spend it on the parlour. Ill never put big money into a parlour though

24 units no need for removers unless you're on a walking frame

Viewtodiefor · 24-11-2013 10:05am

delaval wrote: »

24 units no need for removers unless you're on a walking frame

Most lads I see around me puttin in on avg 14 units (new parlours) are putting removers on them.
Personally I think they are a great job if you have a few different guys milking as the cow is milked the same way each time. I think this really helps scc. As over milking does increase it.

jersey101 · 24-11-2013 11:51am

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Most lads I see around me puttin in on avg 14 units (new parlours) are putting removers on them.
Personally I think they are a great job if you have a few different guys milking as the cow is milked the same way each time. I think this really helps scc. As over milking does increase it.

Mine are over milked the whole time and there fine low scc and no mastitis.

funny man · 24-11-2013 11:57am

delaval wrote: »

24 units no need for removers unless you're on a walking frame

How much prep can you do without removers

TEAT SQUEEZER · 24-11-2013 12:05pm

do some of you think there is an acceptable level of overmilking... note the term OVERMILKING... proof in my eyes of their necessity in BIG parlours is when i went to see a 20 ubit in action and the clusters were put on 1-20 but they came off in a totally random sequence naturally enough.. there is no way imo that a milker can ensure some of his cows are not grossly overmilked... is there not some labour saving with them in so far as the unit is there waiting for u..

delaval · 24-11-2013 12:10pm

funny man wrote: »

How much prep can you do without removers

"0"
Clean cows, yards, cubicles with post spray

keep going · 24-11-2013 12:14pm

delaval wrote: »

24 units no need for removers unless you're on a walking frame

24x15 secs is 6 minutes, even if you skip dipping it only leaves less than 2 minutes for changing row.you would struggle to shave time off 24 changes consistently and if one kick it off it would easily get over a minute sort it

TEAT SQUEEZER · 24-11-2013 12:18pm

i have an issue with this concept of express milking... ffs dirty cows need cleaning , high scc need sanitising etc quicker is not better imo..

delaval · 24-11-2013 12:23pm

TEAT SQUEEZER wrote: »

i have an issue with this concept of express milking... ffs dirty cows need cleaning , high scc need sanitising etc quicker is not better imo..

Problem cows in seperate group, a few extra mins cleaning yards, cubicles etc goes a long way

building milking parlour

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