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Front wheel kickback under braking?

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  • 22-10-2013 9:36pm
    #1
    dceire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭


    I bought an old 'Favourit' ladies racer with the intention of restoring it; it is in okay condition but need some work. I have my everyday bike but it's out of commission for a while thanks to a lady and her Jeep.This saw me using the 'Favourit' bike to get me to work everyday.

    I changed out the crank and it cycles pretty well but has been jerking badly when I pull the front brake. I thought that it was because the front wheel had a slight buckle in it but managed to straighten it out a bit today. I then changed the brake pads as they were in a bad way.

    However, the bike still jerks heavily when using the front brake. The only thing I can attribute it to is that maybe the front wheel needs more work or possibly that the calipers are done; they don't exactly reset too well but seem to function okay at least.

    If anyone has any suggestions of what I could do to rectify this, or what it might be, I'd really appreciate it.


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    #2
    Captain Havoc
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    Headset?

    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



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    #3
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    It could be that the headset is loose. To check that, with the bike stationary apply the front brake and try to rock the bike forward and back. Putting your other hand around the upper or lower race of the headset should show up quickly (by feel) whether the forks are rocking in the headtube due to a loose headset.


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    #4
    dceire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭dceire


    I'm no expert by any means but the headset seems to be okay. I certainly can't detect any obvious play in it. I'm not sure I've described the problem incredibly well either. The problem is this, if I'm cycling along and pull the front brake the brakes apply but in a jerky fashion; it's as if they jerk once in every revolution. This is my reasoning for thinking that it's the slight buckle in the wheel. However, the slight straightening I did hasn't seemed to have made it any better. Could it be the hub possibly?


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    #5
    duffyshuffle
    Registered Users Posts: 767 ✭✭✭duffyshuffle


    Sounds like headset - have you retightened it?


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    #6
    Redmond101
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Redmond101


    Sounds like your front wheel is buckled, spin the front wheel and inspect to see if the wheel appears to wobble


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    #7
    dceire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭dceire


    Redmond101 wrote: »
    Sounds like your front wheel is buckled, spin the front wheel and inspect to see if the wheel appears to wobble

    There was a wobble in it but I managed to straighten it out a bit today. I'll have a look again tomorrow; I may not have straightened it enough to make a difference. I ran out of light and didn't want to be rushing it.
    duffyshuffle wrote: »
    Sounds like headset - have you retightened it?

    As I said, the head set seems okay to me, I'll have a look in the morning again and see if I can tighten it any.


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    #8
    bcmf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭bcmf


    Make sure your brake's are fully tightened thru the fork. If not fully tightened even a slight wobble in your wheel will be amplified by the brakes being loose.
    I would also make sure the wheel is fully tightened at the quick release/wheel nut.


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    #9
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    dceire wrote: »
    I'm no expert by any means but the headset seems to be okay. I certainly can't detect any obvious play in it. I'm not sure I've described the problem incredibly well either. The problem is this, if I'm cycling along and pull the front brake the brakes apply but in a jerky fashion; it's as if they jerk once in every revolution. This is my reasoning for thinking that it's the slight buckle in the wheel. However, the slight straightening I did hasn't seemed to have made it any better. Could it be the hub possibly?

    It could be the rim itself. Check for a bump/ding on the wheel rim by pinching the rim lightly between your fingers and rotating the wheel by hand - hitting the edge of a pothole hard enough, for example, could have left a dent in the edge of the rim.

    Another possibility is that there is some sort of substance on one part of the rim that is catching the brake pads, though you'd expect that to lessen over time and it sounds like that's not happening in your case.


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    #10
    c50
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭c50


    cant believe the amount of people that suggested headset with mentioning the old classic rim wear.

    have experienced that jerking hopping on vintage bikes once too often.

    a loose headset can definitely worsen the possible but if the bike wasnt touched in years the headset is probably well seized into place!

    worn rims are generally the causing of this. sometimes youll get a rim bulge, doesnt mean the wheel has to be buckled just that the rim is bulged.

    give the rim a good clean with a dry cloth until youre not getting anymore black coming off the rim and try again, hope for the best.

    otherwise its a new front wheel more than likely. i cant see it being anything else. headset would not result in jerking, more a kickback once that a chug-chug motion which i believe you're trying to describe..


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    #11
    piston
    Registered Users Posts: 520 ✭✭✭piston


    Is there a lot of back and forth movement in the brake caliper arms?

    Single pivot calipers are prone to this and it can be adjusted out but if you overdo it, the brake won't self centre properly.


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    #12
    dceire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭dceire


    c50 wrote: »
    cant believe the amount of people that suggested headset with mentioning the old classic rim wear.

    have experienced that jerking hopping on vintage bikes once too often.

    a loose headset can definitely worsen the possible but if the bike wasnt touched in years the headset is probably well seized into place!

    worn rims are generally the causing of this. sometimes youll get a rim bulge, doesnt mean the wheel has to be buckled just that the rim is bulged.

    give the rim a good clean with a dry cloth until youre not getting anymore black coming off the rim and try again, hope for the best.

    otherwise its a new front wheel more than likely. i cant see it being anything else. headset would not result in jerking, more a kickback once that a chug-chug motion which i believe you're trying to describe..

    As soon as you posted this I knew the rim was the issue; so obvious that I didn't even think to check :/

    So, I had the tyre off this morning and the rim does indeed have a small dent on it. I'm guessing this means a new rim/wheel :(

    Any way to replace it relatively cheaply?


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    #13
    c50
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭c50


    dceire wrote: »
    As soon as you posted this I knew the rim was the issue; so obvious that I didn't even think to check :/

    So, I had the tyre off this morning and the rim does indeed have a small dent on it. I'm guessing this means a new rim/wheel :(

    Any way to replace it relatively cheaply?


    ive got a front shimano r500 wheel that you could have for 30 quid but im in cork. youd also have to check becasuse its an old bike that its a 700c (28") wheel and not a 27" vintage style wheel

    besides me being in cork and you probably not, the smaller local bike shops are your best option in the hope they stock a cheaper wheel option or have a second hand wheel knocking about. shipping from most online shops would cost too much to have a front cheap wheel posted, wouldnt work out being worth your while


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    #14
    quozl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,308 ✭✭✭quozl


    Rothar.ie might be an idea. With the donations of old bikes that they get they might have something suitable even if it's not a 700c wheel.


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    #15
    dceire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭dceire


    c50 wrote: »
    ive got a front shimano r500 wheel that you could have for 30 quid but im in cork. youd also have to check becasuse its an old bike that its a 700c (28") wheel and not a 27" vintage style wheel

    besides me being in cork and you probably not, the smaller local bike shops are your best option in the hope they stock a cheaper wheel option or have a second hand wheel knocking about. shipping from most online shops would cost too much to have a front cheap wheel posted, wouldnt work out being worth your while

    Yea, it is actually a 27x1.1/4 wheel. Had a look on adverts & done deal but nothing too cheap on there. Rothar might be worth a shout alright.


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    #16
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    doozerie wrote: »
    It could be the rim itself. Check for a bump/ding on the wheel rim by pinching the rim lightly between your fingers and rotating the wheel by hand - hitting the edge of a pothole hard enough, for example, could have left a dent in the edge of the rim.

    Another possibility is that there is some sort of substance on one part of the rim that is catching the brake pads, though you'd expect that to lessen over time and it sounds like that's not happening in your case.
    c50 wrote: »
    cant believe the amount of people that suggested headset with mentioning the old classic rim wear.

    have experienced that jerking hopping on vintage bikes once too often.

    a loose headset can definitely worsen the possible but if the bike wasnt touched in years the headset is probably well seized into place!

    worn rims are generally the causing of this. sometimes youll get a rim bulge, doesnt mean the wheel has to be buckled just that the rim is bulged.

    give the rim a good clean with a dry cloth until youre not getting anymore black coming off the rim and try again, hope for the best.

    otherwise its a new front wheel more than likely. i cant see it being anything else. headset would not result in jerking, more a kickback once that a chug-chug motion which i believe you're trying to describe..
    dceire wrote: »
    As soon as you posted this I knew the rim was the issue; so obvious that I didn't even think to check :/

    So, I had the tyre off this morning and the rim does indeed have a small dent on it. I'm guessing this means a new rim/wheel :(

    Any way to replace it relatively cheaply?

    Poor doozerie. Ignored despite being in there first with the right advice!


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    #17
    rollingscone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭rollingscone


    Lusk_Doyle wrote: »
    Poor doozerie. Ignored despite being in there first with the right advice!

    I'm convinced that Doozerie receives visitations from the bicycle spirits. All hail the Cycle Shaman.


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    #18
    c50
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭c50


    Lusk_Doyle wrote: »
    Poor doozerie. Ignored despite being in there first with the right advice!

    i bet hes distraught...


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    #19
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    c50 wrote: »
    i bet hes distraught...

    Tune into his ranting thread for confirmation...


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    #20
    c50
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭c50


    Lusk_Doyle wrote: »
    Tune into his ranting thread for confirmation...

    where cant see it? or is this humour i havent copped :)


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    #21
    dceire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭dceire


    Lusk_Doyle wrote: »
    Poor doozerie. Ignored despite being in there first with the right advice!

    My sincerest apologies to the mighty doozerie :o


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    #22
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    c50 wrote: »
    where cant see it? or is this humour i havent copped :)

    Right here!


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    #23
    c50
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭c50


    Lusk_Doyle wrote: »
    Right here!

    so both things i suggested were true then!!


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    #24
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    This thread has a bit of everything - hope, anticipation, rejection, despondency, praise, validation - it has been quite an emotional rollercoaster. *group hug*

    …it lacks some single-minded violence though, so time to correct that now: @dceire, if it is a metal rim then you might be able to get that dent out of it with a bit of effort. The best way to do it is to carefully apply some controlled pressure to the rim by putting something like a piece of wood on either side of the rim wall, spanning the dent, and use a C-clamp (or similar) to squeeze the pieces of wood together. Depending on the state of the rim it’ll either flatten the dent or crack or otherwise damage the rim, but you’ll be no worse off it doesn’t work. The less careful way, but ultimately easier and arguably more fun, is to (carefully) hit the dent with a hammer to flatten the dent. The former method worked well for me once many years ago after both alloy wheels badly lost a fight with a deep pothole, the latter worked for me with an Open Pro (alloy) rim last year - I started with a light hammer and worked my way up through the hammer weight divisions, it was simultaneously worrying and satisfying.


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    #25
    dceire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭dceire


    doozerie wrote: »
    This thread has a bit of everything - hope, anticipation, rejection, despondency, praise, validation - it has been quite an emotional rollercoaster. *group hug*

    …it lacks some single-minded violence though, so time to correct that now: @dceire, if it is a metal rim then you might be able to get that dent out of it with a bit of effort. The best way to do it is to carefully apply some controlled pressure to the rim by putting something like a piece of wood on either side of the rim wall, spanning the dent, and use a C-clamp (or similar) to squeeze the pieces of wood together. Depending on the state of the rim it’ll either flatten the dent or crack or otherwise damage the rim, but you’ll be no worse off it doesn’t work. The less careful way, but ultimately easier and arguably more fun, is to (carefully) hit the dent with a hammer to flatten the dent. The former method worked well for me once many years ago after both alloy wheels badly lost a fight with a deep pothole, the latter worked for me with an Open Pro (alloy) rim last year - I started with a light hammer and worked my way up through the hammer weight divisions, it was simultaneously worrying and satisfying.

    Haha yea, I had a little go with the hammer and have made it slightly better. I had to stop myself from going too far as I was working in very 'uncontrolled conditions'. I'll have the use of my folks garage this weekend, I hope, and I'll give it a bash then. Stay tuned for probable disaster :D


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