Are you a nationalist?

Foxhound38 · 22-03-2014 4:24pm #1

Is nationalism something you identify with?

I must admit, I've never really gotten it myself. I was born in Ireland by a stroke of chance - same as everyone else. It's a nice place to live, but at the end of the day the idea of people perching on the rocks vaguely close to where they are born and exclaiming to the rest of the world of other people perched on their own rocks "this is my rock and my rock only" strikes me as a strange way to concieve of the international order.

That's without even getting into all the wars and violence borne out of nationalistic sentiment.

Perhaps other people feel differently?

BrendanHughes1 · 22-03-2014 4:27pm

I don't like these medieval terms.

Lapin · 22-03-2014 4:31pm

Nationalism is the opium of the narrow minded.

Banjo String · 22-03-2014 4:34pm

I Heart Internet · 22-03-2014 4:35pm

BrendanHughes1 wrote: »

I don't like these medieval terms.

Just as well nationalism is an 18th century construct so.

MakeEmLaugh · 22-03-2014 4:35pm

"A patriot loves his country; a nationalist hates all others."
- Georges Clemenceau

star_man · 22-03-2014 4:37pm

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Is nationalism something you identify with?

I must admit, I've never really gotten it myself. I was born in Ireland by a stroke of chance - same as everyone else. It's a nice place to live, but at the end of the day the idea of people perching on the rocks vaguely close to where they are born and exclaiming to the rest of the world of other people perched on their own rocks "this is my rock and my rock only" strikes me as a strange way to concieve of the international order.

That's without even getting into all the wars and violence borne out of nationalistic sentiment.

Perhaps other people feel differently?

you sound comfortably middle class

Karl Stein · 22-03-2014 4:39pm

Yes and everyone is in some way.

Dyr · 22-03-2014 4:41pm

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Is nationalism something you identify with?

I must admit, I've never really gotten it myself. I was born in Ireland by a stroke of chance - same as everyone else. It's a nice place to live, but at the end of the day the idea of people perching on the rocks vaguely close to where they are born and exclaiming to the rest of the world of other people perched on their own rocks "this is my rock and my rock only" strikes me as a strange way to concieve of the international order.

That's without even getting into all the wars and violence borne out of nationalistic sentiment.

Perhaps other people feel differently?

Presumably you could care less about your family, given that it was a stroke of chance that you were born into it

BrendanHughes1 · 22-03-2014 4:42pm

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Just as well nationalism is an 18th century construct so.

Trying telling that to Brian Boru.

Karl Stein · 22-03-2014 4:45pm

Lapin wrote: »

Nationalism is the opium of the narrow minded.

Says the man who was revelling in the win of the Irish rugby team last week.

I Heart Internet · 22-03-2014 4:45pm

BrendanHughes1 wrote: »

Trying telling that to Brian Boru.

Who was motivated, like his many rival "kings" around him, by power and clann....nation wasn't a notion he would have recognised.

BrendanHughes1 · 22-03-2014 4:49pm

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Who was motivated, like his many rival "kings" around him, by power and clann....nation wasn't a notion he would have recognised.

Okay, what about Joan of Arc? She fought the English in the name of France.

BBDBB · 22-03-2014 4:52pm

Yes, absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, Im proud to be so and announce it to the world.

If I want to take all my clothes off in the privacy of my own home or at a camp for like minded and consenting adults then its no concern of anyone else..........................oh sorry I thought you said naturist:o.............

The Backwards Man · 22-03-2014 4:53pm

I wouldn't consider myself a nationalist. I would consider myself a republican, but that term has been hijacked by cnutish wastards who I have absolutely nothing in common with. (on both sides of the Atlantic)

kumate_champ07 · 22-03-2014 4:58pm

its important to be able to decide on things that effect you, but different cultures are important. Im lucky to be Irish because this country has some great things that other countries dont have, but we are not better people than them. Im proud of the human spirit, not a humans nationality

whats important is respect and tolerance, the more respect the less need for tolerance in the first place

kumate_champ07 · 22-03-2014 5:03pm

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I wouldn't consider myself a nationalist. I would consider myself a republican, but that term has been hijacked by cnutish wastards who I have absolutely nothing in common with. (on both sides of the Atlantic)

a 32 county republic has never existed and the people still 'fighting' for that would have no idea what to do with it if it ever became a reality. they would just 'retire' and live off 'protection money' from drug dealers and criminals while the smart people try to organise it all

22-03-2014 5:16pm

No I don't really identify with nationalism or patriotism. In theory I would like there to be a 32-county republic but in practice I don't think it would be worth the hassle or the violence necessary to achieve it.

I like seeing Irish people do well in sporting events and stuff (and Eurovision!

) but I don't swell with pride upon hearing the national anthem or seeing the flag or anything. I'm neither proud nor ashamed to be Irish - it's not like I had any choice in the matter of where I was born!

orangesoda · 22-03-2014 5:49pm

I've never gotten that 'born here by chance' thing, it is down to your parents where you were born, their choice. If you were born to some family in japan then you wouldn't be 'you'.

I've no desire for a united Ireland but i don't particularly like Norn Ireland being in the UK either, too much gaelic blood was shed down the centuries

Jimminism · 23-03-2014 1:19am

Nationalism as in support for a UI? Or nationalism in support of the current Republic? Do Irish people in the Republic see the word "nationalism" the same way as those in NI? I'm confused.

endacl · 23-03-2014 1:26am

Nationalism is meaningless. Except to the short-term thinker...

jdawson · 23-03-2014 1:44am

Bambi wrote: »

Presumably you could care less about your family, given that it was a stroke of chance that you were born into it

Karl Stein wrote: »

Says the man who was revelling in the win of the Irish rugby team last week.

Spot on, it's easy to show up the ignorance and hypocritical nature of the "anti-nationalist" brigade.

It's a pity more Irish people aren't nationalistic in terms of having a sense of nationhood (not the "hate everyone else" definition someone posted above), Ireland would be a much better place.

IrishEyes19 · 23-03-2014 2:12am

I would say I am. Just to add I'm not racist, nor do I or would I ever approve of what the real IRA did, horrific times. But I absolutely hate what their actions and what the media have done to Irish history. It's almost a crime to be proud of being Irish.

Stavros Murphy · 23-03-2014 2:15am

Or a Socialist. A National Socialist..

micko4 · 23-03-2014 2:21am

Lapin wrote: »

Nationalism is the opium of the narrow minded.

Just because the narrow minded seem to fall into that category doesn't mean its narrow minded to have that opinion.

Lucena · 23-03-2014 2:40am

orangesoda wrote: »

I've never gotten that 'born here by chance' thing, it is down to your parents where you were born, their choice. If you were born to some family in japan then you wouldn't be 'you'.

I've no desire for a united Ireland but i don't particularly like Norn Ireland being in the UK either, too much gaelic blood was shed down the centuries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs

BTW, my grandfather was in the IRA, but I honestly couldn't give a sh1te whether Norn Irn stays in the UK or not.

Lots of people died for Ireland, lets just leave it at that. We're lucky to be living in a period of European history where we're riding the arses off each other and not shooting the arses of each other.

Femme_Fatale · 23-03-2014 2:43am

I'd only be defensive of it in the face of anti Irish bigotry, and I like when Ireland does well at sport and stuff. But otherwise, it's not a huge concern to me and I'd be critical of this country at times too (not that the two have to be mutually exclusive of course).

orangesoda · 23-03-2014 2:44am

Lucena wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs

BTW, my grandfather was in the IRA, but I honestly couldn't give a sh1te whether Norn Irn stays in the UK or not.

Lots of people died for Ireland, lets just leave it at that. We're lucky to be living in a period of European history where we're riding the arses off each other and not shooting the arses of each other.

speak for yourself, i don't get much riding

Popescu · 23-03-2014 2:50am

No good comes from nationalism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHNsRZ8iqFc

Lucena · 23-03-2014 3:13am

orangesoda wrote: »

speak for yourself, i don't get much riding

On average, more European people are having sex with people from other European countries than say 50 years ago.

Doesn't mean I'm getting any, though.

Sir Arthur Daley · 23-03-2014 3:15am

After this weekend working on the west coast of Ireland i dont care what i am once i get out alive.

markgisme · 23-03-2014 3:21am

I used to consider myself Republican/Nationalist but now I'd say Imperialist which is quite odd.

MadsL · 23-03-2014 3:25am

"People who enjoy waving flags don't deserve one"

Banksy

The Narrator · 23-03-2014 3:33am

Imaginary lines drawn on a map.

Something like nationalism is just another separator between our species,
to go along with race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc. etc.

Karl Stein · 23-03-2014 3:37am

MadsL wrote: »

"People who enjoy waving flags don't deserve one"

Banksy

What if the flag reads 'Waving flags is dumb'?

William F · 23-03-2014 3:42am

The Narrator wrote: »

Imaginary lines drawn on a map.

Something like nationalism is just another separator between our species,
to go along with race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc. etc.

I agree. It also has its benefits like bringing different groups together under one flag so in a way it acts as a paradox.

I have no idea what St. Patrick's Day is about though. Irish people of different religious persuasions celebrating a Welsh guy who brought Christianity to Ireland?

I think it's significance as a national holiday should be challenged.

Sir Arthur Daley · 23-03-2014 3:43am

Karl Stein wrote: »

What if the flag reads 'Waving flags is dumb'?

Is that a common occurrence?

Annasopra · 23-03-2014 10:08am

Nope.

Nationalism is deeply conservative and obsesses with nations and borders. It creates barriers and differences.

jdawson · 23-03-2014 10:18am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Nope.

Nationalism is deeply conservative and obsesses with nations and borders. It creates barriers and differences.

You're wrong on all counts.

Toby Take a Bow · 23-03-2014 10:24am

orangesoda wrote: »

I've never gotten that 'born here by chance' thing, it is down to your parents where you were born, their choice. If you were born to some family in japan then you wouldn't be 'you'.

The point is that your parents might have got a visa for America or emigrated to London, in which case you would be American/British/whatever.

jdawson wrote: »

Spot on, it's easy to show up the ignorance and hypocritical nature of the "anti-nationalist" brigade.

That's just one example, it hardly applies to all people who are anti nationalist or at least suspicious of nationalism.

jdawson wrote: »

It's a pity more Irish people aren't nationalistic in terms of having a sense of nationhood (not the "hate everyone else" definition someone posted above), Ireland would be a much better place.

How would having a sense of nationhood necessarily make this a better place?

Quazzie · 23-03-2014 10:25am

endacl wrote: »

Nationalism is meaningless. Except to the short-term thinker...

That video suggests that the "800 years" is tripe. I refuse to believe that the Wolfe Tones would lie to us,

Legs.Eleven · 23-03-2014 10:31am

Despite all the arguments against it and as nonsensical as it seems to others, I'd generally be quite proud to be Irish because there's many things I love about the country. Many things I hate too, mind.

Do I think Ireland is superior to other countries and Ireland should only be for Irish people? No. Do I want the best for the country and things to improve for everyone living on the island because it's the place I was born and where I was very happy for 24 years of my life? Yes.

Toby Take a Bow · 23-03-2014 10:49am

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Despite all the arguments against it and as nonsensical as it seems to others, I'd generally be quite proud to be Irish because there's many things I love about the country. Many things I hate too, mind.

There are loads of things I love about this country too, but I don't get being proud of them. I had nothing to do with creating them.

UtopianWarlord · 23-03-2014 10:53am

endacl wrote: »

Nationalism is meaningless. Except to the short-term thinker...

Why short-term, several states in that video existed for centuries

Anyway, I'd be somewhat I suppose. I don't really care about the north, but I like Ireland and will defend attacks on our Irishness or country. Maybe more so when abroad. Although I don't get offended by paddy jokes or the like that seems to be cause for national outrage here

Legs.Eleven · 23-03-2014 10:56am

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

There are loads of things I love about this country too, but I don't get being proud of them. I had nothing to do with creating them.

As I said, it's nonsensical but it's how I feel.

Wacker The Attacker · 23-03-2014 11:04am

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

a 32 county republic has never existed and the people still 'fighting' for that would have no idea what to do with it if it ever became a reality. they would just 'retire' and live off 'protection money' from drug dealers and criminals while the smart people try to organise it all

Do you think?

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 23-03-2014 11:08am

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Is nationalism something you identify with?

I must admit, I've never really gotten it myself. I was born in Ireland by a stroke of chance - same as everyone else. It's a nice place to live, but at the end of the day the idea of people perching on the rocks vaguely close to where they are born and exclaiming to the rest of the world of other people perched on their own rocks "this is my rock and my rock only" strikes me as a strange way to concieve of the international order.

That's without even getting into all the wars and violence borne out of nationalistic sentiment.

Perhaps other people feel differently?

Go live in Somalia if you can't make a distinction between Ireland and there so!
The country (Ireland) is what it is today presumably (not exclusively) because of the people who lived here before you, like your parents/grandparents/great grandparents and so on. They endured a lot of hardship to make here what it is today, and if you live your life here and raise your kids here you will have been one tiny factor of the whole sum that makes here what it is. You speak as this sort of onlooker who has no place in society (from your ivory tower ha ha) when in fact you play an active part in making this place what it is, however small that role is and whether it is a positive or negative one.
Nationalism in reality is nothing much beyond believing in the land that you stand on and the people you inhabit it with. Believing in whether it is a good or a bad place to stand is largely irrelevant, you have a stake in it, that makes you and pretty much everyone a nationalist essentially.
Taken to extremes it can lead to violence and ethnic cleansing and so on but in reality to most people it means living your life in a community you are happy to live in. You will only ever live your life in a relatively very small community of the entire world, having some faith and belief in that community is the definition of nationalism to me and it's a healthy and good thing that most people think the same way about it.

Whenever I hear someone say things like you just have I think of John Lennon, all the love in his heart for everyone and everything, a true citizen of the world, he cared for all that there is, it's just a pity all that love he had couldn't extend to spending some time with his son.

joe swanson · 23-03-2014 1:35pm

Nationalist, yes. But that does not mean i want to go round murdering innocent people or being violent....

anncoates · 23-03-2014 1:37pm

Nope.

Sometimes It's just politics for slow learners.

Toby Take a Bow · 23-03-2014 1:51pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Go live in Somalia

This argument (and the John Lennon one at the end of your post) make no sense. Just because you don't feel a nationalistic pride in the achievements of others who happen to be born within the same jurisdiction as yourself doesn't mean you should go and live in another country. And because John Lennon wasn't a good family man doesn't mean we all are.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Nationalism in reality is nothing much beyond believing in the land that you stand on and the people you inhabit it with. Believing in whether it is a good or a bad place to stand is largely irrelevant, you have a stake in it, that makes you and pretty much everyone a nationalist essentially.

I think you're assuming that someone who feels no nationalistic attachment to their country can't be a good citizen or participate in helping their community. This isn't the same as nationalism, despite how you may choose to define it. Although I must confess that I don't really understand what you mean by nationalism equating to 'believing' in your country. Believing what, exactly?

pragmatic1 · 23-03-2014 1:52pm

Everything that makes me, me, is a result of living in Ireland. From a baby I've been taken care of either by my family, the state or my community.I'm very proud of Ireland and Irish people.

Are you a nationalist?

Are you a nationalist? 131 votes

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