The Great Irish Whiskey Scandal!

Kevin the Kid · 14-10-2014 8:01am #1

Split from the Glendalough Whiskey Thread.

tHB

Most people would be shocked to find how little of the Irish whiskey they drink is made in Ireland.
A little research and you will find that Jameson, Powers, Paddy etc etc are all made in Poland then bottled aged in american casks in Ireland and bottled here also.
Shame really that we don't do more for our economy and for employment.

If the whiskey your are talking about - Glendalough is truly made with Irish produce, by Irish people(people living in Ireland I mean), Age, bottled and then distributed in Ireland then we should think about giving it a bit of lee-way in the hope that if we drink a little of it the company may have the finances to improve the product. Of course with Whiskey it takes time for these changes to happen.

I'm currently trying to getmy friends to but Irish beer when we go out for a night.
For those of you who haven heard about it try the app BEOIRFINDER - its a Irish micro brew beer finder. I've been really plesently surprised at some of the great Irish beers I've found out here but that's for another thread.

worded · 14-10-2014 8:06am

"A little research and you will find that Jameson, Powers, Paddy etc etc are all made in Poland"

> shocked at this. I really thought Jameson was made in Ire

DeadlyByDesign · 14-10-2014 8:35am

absolutely Gobsmacked that half the Irish whiskey I thought I was drinking isn't made or bottled here at all?!!

Kevin the Kid · 14-10-2014 8:35am

worded wrote: »

"A little research and you will find that Jameson, Powers, Paddy etc etc are all made in Poland"

> shocked at this. I really thought Jameson was made in Ire

Unfortunately it is true.
If you take a tour of the old Jameson distillery on Bow street in Dublin the tour guide will openly talk about it as part of the tour.
I checked it out later and found it to be true.
Grandpappy is whizzin in his grave!

worded · 14-10-2014 9:29am

So what whiskeys are truely irish ?

lord lucan · 14-10-2014 9:42am

That's a new one for me,Irish whiskey made in eastern Europe!! Sounds like someone was pulling your leg. Legally Irish whiskey must be distilled and matured on the island of Ireland to be called Irish whiskey.

the beer revolu · 14-10-2014 9:55am

I've never heard of such a load of crap regarding Irish whiskey.
Really.
Jameson, Power's Paddy etc. are all brewed, distilled, aged and bottled in Middleton, Cork.

the beer revolu · 14-10-2014 9:58am

worded wrote: »

So what whiskeys are truely irish ?

Anything labeled as Irish whiskey is truly Irish.
They can use imported grain and of course imported wood but it is all brewed, distilled aged and bottled in Ireland.

Slattsy · 14-10-2014 9:59am

I call shenanigans !
im just back from a trip to Midleton, Jameson et all is 100% made and bottled there lol

Were ye on the whiskey this morning yourself??

Edit ^ What he said!

DeadlyByDesign · 14-10-2014 1:41pm

On further reflection this can't be true. Can you imagine if it was? There would be uproar. You couldn't class it as Irish Whiskey

54kroc · 14-10-2014 7:24pm

It's a bit laughable alright, judging by the lovely smell coming from the distillery in Middleton this morning.

the beer revolu · 15-10-2014 9:43am

I'm surprised young Kevin hasn't come back to defend his claims.

Kevin the Kid · 15-10-2014 9:05pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

I'm surprised young Kevin hasn't come back to defend his claims.

Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news lads but I'm afraid it is true. The alcohol is made in Poland and then shipped here to Ireland where it is placed into Spanish sherry and American oak casks and then aged here in Ireland. It is then blended and bottled here and labeled Irish whiskey and then sold.

I blame the french owners of Jameson and Irish distillers Pernod Richard and the like.
Throw a few cheeky Corkmen into the mix and hey presto - Lots and Lots of cheap alcohol made in Poland and aged and bottled in Cork.

You will of course find this information hard to find but its true. Just because you didn't know it doesn't mean it isn't true. Far more outrageous things have happened now haven't they

Kevin the Kid · 15-10-2014 9:13pm

lord lucan wrote: »

That's a new one for me,Irish whiskey made in eastern Europe!! Sounds like someone was pulling your leg. Legally Irish whiskey must be distilled and matured on the island of Ireland to be called Irish whiskey.

Yes you'd think wouldn't you. But your version of the law and what the distillery's interpretation of the law i.e what they can get away with are in what is know as a grey area.

Shock - Irish smoked salmon caught off greenland and smoked in Ireland.
Shock - Suicra (suger) isn't made here either.
Boyne valley honey is made abroad.

Even bloody saint Paddy isn't Irish - what is the world coming to!

lord lucan · 15-10-2014 10:29pm

Kevin the Kid wrote: »

Yes you'd think wouldn't you. But your version of the law and what the distillery's interpretation of the law i.e what they can get away with are in what is know as a grey area.

Shock - Irish smoked salmon caught off greenland and smoked in Ireland.
Shock - Suicra (suger) isn't made here either.
Boyne valley honey is made abroad.

Even bloody saint Paddy isn't Irish - what is the world coming to!

Trust me,if IDL/PR were pulling a stunt like that it'd have come to like a long time ago. It's not like it's easy to ship in hundreds of casks of whiskey without it being noticed and there's not a hope another company(Bushmills owned by Diageo for example) would sit by and let it happen without making capital from it.

Someone's been pulling your leg and telling a few tall tales. Many of the distilleries,IDL included,get their grain from the continent but the end product is distilled and matured here in Ireland.

Kevin the Kid · 15-10-2014 10:39pm

lord lucan wrote: »

Trust me,if IDL/PR were pulling a stunt like that it'd have come to like a long time ago. It's not like it's easy to ship in hundreds of casks of whiskey without it being noticed and there's not a hope another company(Bushmills owned by Diageo for example) would sit by and let it happen without making capital from it.

Someone's been pulling your leg and telling a few tall tales. Many of the distilleries,IDL included,get their grain from the continent but the end product is distilled and matured here in Ireland.

Sorry Lord but you are just plain wrong.
You obviously haven't been reading the thread. As I said before - It is shipped to Ireland and then put into barrels to be aged then bottled labeled and sold.
Diageo makes Guinness in 60 countries after all.

lord lucan · 15-10-2014 10:52pm

Kevin the Kid wrote: »

Sorry Lord but you are just plain wrong.
You obviously haven't been reading the thread. As I said before - It is shipped to Ireland and then put into barrels to be aged then bottled labeled and sold.
Diageo makes Guinness in 60 countries after all.

This topic has gone way off topic so my apologies to the Mods. I have read the thread and some of it has given me a good laugh. There's not a hope a guide doing the Jameson tour at Bow St. told you it was true or if he did he's probably since been sacked. I've done that tour twice and have never heard this tale.

IDL in the last year have vastly expanded the Midleton complex to cater to the increased demand for their products,they're hardly going to spend millions on a pretence if the real stuff was being knocked out on the cheap in Poland.

I can only assume you're on the wind up as i've never heard the like before. I've heard of some 'quare' practices and shenanigans in the whiskey industry but never this. Your source amounts to "I know and have been told so it must be true".

oblivious · 16-10-2014 7:58am

Kevin the Kid wrote: »

Diageo makes Guinness in 60 countries after all.

The Guinness extract is made in James gate and exported, its then added to a locally brewed beer.

Lambofdave · 16-10-2014 8:04am

well that was a waste of a further 100 million that was invested in the "fake"distillery in Midleton but if the distillery is fake what is that smell you get sometimes in Midleton I thread to think.

wuffly · 16-10-2014 8:25am

I wonder what all those people that work in the distillery in Midleton actually do? They must have taken some mad pledge to never tell anyone 'the truth'!!

circadian · 16-10-2014 8:29am

Kevin the Kid wrote: »

Sorry Lord but you are just plain wrong.
You obviously haven't been reading the thread. As I said before - It is shipped to Ireland and then put into barrels to be aged then bottled labeled and sold.
Diageo makes Guinness in 60 countries after all.

You might want to read this then.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0033/sec0001.html#sec1

1.—(1) For the purposes of any statute or instrument made under statute spirits described as Irish whiskey shall not be regarded as corresponding to that description unless the requirements regarding spirits contained in subsection (3) of this section are complied with as regards the spirits.

(2) For any of the purposes mentioned in subsection (1) of this section spirits described as blended Irish whiskey shall not be regarded as corresponding to that description unless—

(a) the spirits comprise a blend of two or more distillates, and

(b) the requirements regarding spirits contained in subsection (3) of this section are complied with as regards each of the distillates.

(3) The following are the requirements referred to in subsections (1) and (2) of this section regarding spirits;

(a) the spirits shall have been distilled in the State or in Northern Ireland from a mash of cereals which has been—

(i) saccharified by the diastase of malt contained therein, with or without other natural diastases,

(ii) fermented by the action of yeast, and

(iii) distilled at an alcoholic strength of less than 94.8% by volume in such a way that the distillate has an aroma and flavour derived from the materials used,

and

(b) the spirits shall have been matured in wooden casks—

(i) in warehouse in the State for a period of not less than three years, or

(ii) in warehouse in Northern Ireland for such a period, or

(iii) in warehouse in the State and in Northern Ireland for periods the aggregate of which is not less than three years.

(4) For the purposes of subsection (3) of this section the alcoholic strength at which spirits are distilled shall be ascertained in the same manner as that in which such ascertainment is for the time being arrived at for the purposes of customs and excise.

Kevin the Kid · 16-10-2014 8:46am

circadian wrote: »

You might want to read this then.

Excellent work.

Thank you for this.

Your facts seem to me to be very compelling.

It would appear I was misinformed and owe some apologies.

I was misinformed buy a tour guide at Bow street and by a Jameson rep who I also questioned about it. (i should have came to boards first but I'm only new)

Its one of those things I am glad that I'm wrong about.

The Hill Billy · 16-10-2014 9:31am

Playing Devil's Advocate here, would it be possible that a 'base' spirit was imported - say 40 proof, then further distilled to the required strength before being casked?

Reading the Act below, 3 (a) (i) & (ii) are not required to take place within the State or Northern Ireland. Therefore, if the distillate from these steps were imported & then distilled in Ireland it would seem to satisfy the statutory requirements for producing Irish Whiskey.

BeerNut · 16-10-2014 9:39am

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Therefore, if the distillate from these steps were imported & then distilled in Ireland it would seem to satisfy the statutory requirements for producing Irish Whiskey.

Can you import foreign beer or wash and distil it to make Irish whiskey? I guess, but you wouldn't. Making the wash is the cheap and easy bit of the process. There's no reason to pay somebody else to do it and go through the red tape involved in importing it.

oblivious · 16-10-2014 9:43am

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Playing Devil's Advocate here, would it be possible that a 'base' spirit was imported - say 40 proof, then further distilled to the required strength before being casked?

Reading the Act below, 3 (a) (i) & (ii) are not required to take place within the State or Northern Ireland. Therefore, if the distillate from these steps were imported & then distilled in Ireland it would seem to satisfy the statutory requirements for producing Irish Whiskey.

Not sure myself, but i believe the largest cost is in the bonding of the maturing whiskey. From listing to Oliver Hughes its a massive out lay, as you waiting three years and day before you can sell. Also why the stat sell vodka and gin to start bringing revenue.

The Hill Billy · 16-10-2014 9:56am

Was just throwing it out there as a possibility as I know for certain that not all distillers in Ireland produce their spirit from scratch. Not sure if it is imported, but it is bought in.

circadian · 16-10-2014 10:15am

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Playing Devil's Advocate here, would it be possible that a 'base' spirit was imported - say 40 proof, then further distilled to the required strength before being casked?

Reading the Act below, 3 (a) (i) & (ii) are not required to take place within the State or Northern Ireland. Therefore, if the distillate from these steps were imported & then distilled in Ireland it would seem to satisfy the statutory requirements for producing Irish Whiskey.

I see your point but I can't imagine this being cost effective when it comes to shipping and taxing. It'd be just as easy to make the base on site.

ThisRegard · 16-10-2014 10:32am

Kevin the Kid wrote: »

Shock - Suicra (suger) isn't made here either.

I don't know how that can be a shock to anyone since it's well know that all the Irish sugar processing plants were closed down years ago.

Wait till you find out about Jacobs biscuits...

Ipso · 17-10-2014 3:34pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

I don't know how that can be a shock to anyone since it's well know that all the Irish sugar processing plants were closed down years ago.

Wait till you find out about Jacobs biscuits...

Or Donegal Catch!

Baxtardo · 21-10-2014 4:03pm

I was on a tour of the Dingle Whiskey distillery a few weeks ago and I did see vats of imported pure alcohol (produced in Holland I think?). The base alcohol is distilled through their stills to create their gin and vodka products. It's not something I would necessarily have a problem with since the taste and unique characteristics of the spirits are created at this stage. This is happening to get product out on the market while the whiskey is maturing in casks. None of this imported stuff is used in the whiskey due to the above act, which adds support to the above discussion!

BeerNut · 21-10-2014 4:10pm

Baxtardo wrote: »

I did see vats of imported pure alcohol (produced in Holland I think?)

Says Scandinavia here.

The Great Irish Whiskey Scandal!

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