Yet another line rental increase imminent

Moriarty · 13-01-2004 8:42am #1

Listening to Morning Ireland at the moment, Eircom have announced another increase in line rental. Interview with somone from eircom about it at ~7:45. More to come.

Moriarty · 13-01-2004 8:51am

Increase of 7.5% to €24.18. Application for increase sent to regulartor today. David McRedmond on rte1 now.

Moriarty · 13-01-2004 8:58am

McRedmond was nattering on about low population densitys being the cause for ireland having the highest line rental in europe. Attempted to claim that its below average but the presenter cut him off.

He was brought up on the announcement of the reduction in dsl charges yesterday, with the presenter asking was it not just giving with one hand and taking with the other. McRedmond responded by saying that they couldnt have made the announcement yesterday because comreg hadnt acknowledged reciept of their application in time. Heh.

Dangger · 13-01-2004 9:33am

So from February 2003 we will have seen our line rental increase from €19.60 by close to €5 to €24.18 per month. I guess they have to get the other €500 milion of their investment out somehow! :rolleyes:

Moriarty · 13-01-2004 9:34am

Sometime during the day this link will go live with the program. It was the top story of the business section, so itll most likely be under the main business news section with Doug Keatinge. Afaik theres a story in the IT about this aswell.

dahamsta · 13-01-2004 9:52am

If Comreg says yes this time I'll go up there myself and kick their asses.

Ripwave · 13-01-2004 9:58am

Originally posted by dahamsta
If Comreg says yes this time I'll go up there myself and kick their asses.

If ComReg don't say yes someone will have to kick me in the ass to wake me up when I faint away in surprise!

ComRegs position on this is that Eircom can set any prices they want. Increases do not have to be "cost justified".

Dr. Dre · 13-01-2004 10:03am

Unbelieveable :mad:

Puts their broadband "price cut" in perspective.
I hate this f**kin' country :mad:

viking · 13-01-2004 10:10am

Does this only apply to standard analogue telephone lines? Are ISDN lines included in this increase?

I know they weren't affected by the last increase but can someone confirm?

viking

dahamsta · 13-01-2004 10:19am

I'm not kidding, I'll go up to their offices and cause an unmerciful stink altogether.

vinnyfitz · 13-01-2004 10:29am

In this morning's interview I think McRedmond mentioned their "low use" package which made line rental costs very low for minimal users. This stumped Doug Keating - the journo. Stumped me too. What is this low use charge? Can we all have it if we are not using Eircom for calls or for internet?

13-01-2004 10:34am

Mr Mc redmond in slimey fashion on morning Ireland mentioned all their proposed investment in broadband infrastructure as an excuse for this.

Why cant they go to the markets for the money?
rather than rip off their captive customer.

viking · 13-01-2004 10:35am

Irish Times Article...

Eircom to hike rental charges 8%
Jamie Smyth, Technology Reporter

Consumers face a third successive increase in telephone line rental in a year, following a new application by Eircom to increase its fee.

The company has told the Commission for Communications Regulation (ComReg) that it plans to increase line rental charges by up to 8 per cent. It will also amend some call management services, although details of the changes are not yet available.

Full details of the list of proposed new telecommunications prices should be made available on Eircom's website later today.

The proposed new hike in line rental charges will enrage many residential consumers who have already seen line rental increase by €2.99 since February 2003.

Eircom's line rental charges for residential consumers are currently the highest in the European Union at €22.50. The proposed increase in line rental would push the monthly fee to €24.30, almost €10 higher than the EU average for line rental during 2003 of about €14.

A recent EU report published on the telecommunications market highlighted that Eircom's 2003 monthly line rental was about €9 more than Britain's fee and €9.50 more than France's fee.

Eircom would not comment on the price increase when contacted last night.

A ComReg spokesman confirmed it had received an application for an increase in line rental charges. He said the Commission would consider the application over the next few weeks.

But under the terms of the Telecommunications Scheme it is unlikely that ComReg can prevent Eircom from increasing line rental charges. Eircom is currently governed by a price cap that enables it to increase the cost of a basket of services by the rate of the consumer price index.

In recent years, Eircom has increased its line rental charges steeply while reducing call costs to comply with the price cap. This enables the company to compete strongly against other telecoms operators which cannot yet offer a valid line rental product.

A plan to enable other telecoms firms to offer line rental to consumers is currently almost a year behind schedule. Competing operators blame Eircom for the long delays. Eircom says it has already provided a viable wholesale service to its rivals.

© The Irish Times

ixoy · 13-01-2004 10:53am

This is a joke right? Can someone move it the Humour board please then :dunno:

shinzon · 13-01-2004 11:07am

STARES IN DISBELIEF

true what they say, they give it with one hand and take away with the other, well done for having comreg in your pocket Eircom, i expect this to pushed through with all available haste and expect nothing at all to be done with the infrastructure where this supposedly is going

EIRCON gotta love em, they really know how to screw wih people

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Shin

Cabaal · 13-01-2004 11:08am

****en scum that are bloody eircom!
This type of ****e pisses me off, they might as well not bother cutting the DSL price once they do this.

Hmm might phone Eircom and ask for a solid reason why there doing this, I know its a waste of time but atleast for today it'll make me feel better after the cust service person gives up and I end up talking to a super :mad:

Sleipnir · 13-01-2004 11:11am

I'm fcuking absolutely disgusted at this company.
The best way to lodge your objections is to ring them up and tell them you're moving to another telco.
Any one but Eircom.
Obviously you still have to pay the greedy baxterds the line rental but they're probably increasing the charges because they're losing market share anyway.
So make them lose more.

Ripwave · 13-01-2004 11:15am

Originally posted by vinnyfitz
In this morning's interview I think McRedmond mentioned their "low use" package which made line rental costs very low for minimal users. This stumped Doug Keating - the journo. Stumped me too. What is this low use charge? Can we all have it if we are not using Eircom for calls or for internet?

Apparently not - it's not listed anywhere on the eircom website, and from the vague references to it that I have read, it's meant for those on "limited means", not for those who don't use the phone much.

Ripwave · 13-01-2004 11:18am

Originally posted by shinzon
[the infrastructure where this supposedly is going

Who told you that? This is going to fund another €500 million "dividend" to the owners of Valentia.

vinnyfitz · 13-01-2004 11:25am

Yeah I scoured the website too and could not find any reference.

I think IOFFL should formally object to this Comreg about this price increase or argue that users not buying voice or data services from the company should be allowed benefit from the discounted fee whatever it is.
After all Eircom are exercising what is a classic monopoly power here.

Consumers buying voice, data, burglar alarm monitoring or Sky TV services have no option but to pay fees to Eircom even if they buy no eircom services at all. Of course monopolistic operators fees in such circumstances must be controlled by the State.

Edit
OK the interview is up now access from the bottom of this page page

What Mc Redmond calls the low user scheme is actually a "Vulnerable User Scheme" announced by ComReg last year here

Strangely enough this scheme was proposed by Eircom to Comreg and just means you get a few cheap Eircom calls if you are "vulnerable" This is what it means ffective from 2nd June 2003. The scheme will have an initial subscription fee of €22.50 (incl. VAT) per month which
will include line rental and local, national, fixed to mobile and international calls up
to a value of €5.00 (incl. VAT). Once a customer exceeds the €5.00 worth of calls
they will pay double the standard rate for calls up to €11 (incl. VAT) after which
they will revert to standard call rates.

So if you don't buy any calls from Eircom at all are you eligible? Me thinks further about the value of new ESAT bundled scheme......

rymus · 13-01-2004 12:23pm

Another line rental increase you say? Why oh why does that not surprise me?

I'll go to ComReg and cause an unmerciful stink of my own.. except mine will be founded in a can of curried beans and few jars of prunes.

viking · 13-01-2004 12:57pm

So if you don't buy any calls from Eircom at all are you eligible? Me thinks further about the value of new ESAT bundled scheme......

It doesn't apply if you have CPS on the phone line...

viking

Samson · 13-01-2004 1:32pm

Eircom lost around €80.00 per month of my money a while ago when my company threw in Esat BT Anytime (business) for me at home as part of my renumeration package.
I had been with Eircom.net (subscription).

Now they are going to lose my calls business too. I had been toying with of moving my business a while ago, but this line rental increase has made me determined to ensure that Eircom get as little of my money as possible.

Any recommendations?

MarkR · 13-01-2004 1:34pm

For the love of god! Right lads, get your torches and pitch forks. We're going up to the dail and demand they take back control of those lines.

Genghis · 13-01-2004 1:40pm

here

The scheme will have an initial subscription fee of €22.50 (incl. VAT) per month which
will include line rental and local, national, fixed to mobile and international calls up
to a value of €5.00 (incl. VAT). Once a customer exceeds the €5.00 worth of calls
they will pay double the standard rate for calls up to €11 (incl. VAT) after which
they will revert to standard call rates.

Doesn't specifically mention internet calls. I wonder?

I use the landline almost exclusively for the internet, secondly to receive calls, and perhaps once a week to make a voice call / once in ablue monn to call abroad. Consequently my bills tend to be 60-70% 'rental and charges', 30% Internet calls, and 5-10% voice calls.

I would be interested in this scheme if the internet calls did not eat in to the €5 credit, as the €5 would easily cover my phone calls per month.

Ripwave · 13-01-2004 2:09pm

Originally posted by vinnyfitz
So if you don't buy any calls from Eircom at all are you eligible?

Sure you're eligible - you're eligible for a "bundle" costing €22.50, which is actually more than you'd pay for just the line rental on its own.

MDR · 13-01-2004 2:57pm

Our response.

*** START ***

PRESS RELEASE : IRELAND OFFLINE 12/12/03

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

*** Ireland Offline condemns line rental price hike ***

Dublin, Tuesday, January 13: Ireland Offline refutes Eircom's assertion that
line rental increases are being driven by population density.

Commenting on the announcement, Ireland Offline's chairman, Christian Cooke, said, "This is a cynical gesture from the incumbent, announcing a drop in broadband prices on one day and an increase in line rental charges the next. It is blatantly apparent to the Irish consumer that Eircom is not serious about offering value for money. Line rental is being increased in the face of Eircom paying its shareholders a EUR 472 million dividend, the third line rental increase in under a year making it by
far the most expensive line rental in the EU."

"Eircom are being disingenuous in claiming lower population density as a reason for the high price for line rental in Ireland," said Mr. Cooke. Scandinavian countries have a fraction of the population density of Ireland and charge up to 8 euros less. References to the Vulnerable User Scheme, a service Eircom have to offer as part of their Universal Service Obligation, are also dubious as this was used to justify the last increase in line rental in 2003.

The majority of consumers will not have a choice in paying this increase due to the monopoly position held by the incumbent - yet another clear indication of the urgent necessity of promoting platform competition. Given affordable, open-access backhaul wireless operators would be in the position to provide an alternative to using the phone line for communication.

Ireland Offline believes that it is now important that the Managed Services Entity, the body responsible for the running of the MANs, should be nominated as soon as possible. "Only with affordable backhaul will it be possible for the community networks to be set up," said Mr. Cooke. The MSE should also, once established, look to acquiring unused fibre, such as the Western Digital Corridor, and make this available to community and commercial networks.

*** END ***

ABOUT IRELAND OFFLINE

The Ireland Offline Internet users group, formed in May 2001 in response to EsatBT's (then Esat Fusion's) decision to cut off 2,000 subscribers of its "SurfNoLimits" program, has campaigned for affordable flat rate and high-speed Internet access services for all of Ireland.
For more information, please visit the IrelandOffline website at
http://www.irelandoffline.org

Mossy Monk · 13-01-2004 3:00pm

first thing i heard today on the radio when i woke up was another increase on the line rental, now they will surely give me a clean line and remove the bastard splitters

oh wait, i woke up. ****ing Eircom :mad: :mad: :mad:

Moriarty · 13-01-2004 3:01pm

Good press release MDR.

dahamsta · 13-01-2004 3:03pm

Excellent MDR, I hope this gets some coverage.

adam

MDR · 13-01-2004 3:06pm

I did all the cynical stuff,
Chris sold all the cross-platform stuff ....

dahamsta · 13-01-2004 3:13pm

Line rental price hike stuns Esat BT
Tuesday, January 13 2004
by Dick O'Brien

Esat BT has said it is 'absolutely staggered' that Eircom has moved to increase its line rental charges by about 8 percent to EUR24.18 from EUR22.50 per month.

Line rental in Ireland has not yet been deregulated and customers of rival telecoms operators to Eircom still have to pay line rental to the former state firm. "Line rental is still not open to competition and Eircom are pushing all of their prices increases through in this sector. This price increase affects everybody's customers, not just Eircom's," said Esat BT's director of communications Una McGirr. She said that this was the third price increase in less than twelve months and estimated that it had added EUR27 million to Eircom's bottom line and claimed that the three price increases together would add EUR100 million.

Esat BT has been quite vocal of late in calling for the prompt introduction of wholesale line rental, which will enable competing firms to offer line rental directly to customers. McGirr on Tuesday speculated that these recent price increases would be used by Eircom to justify a higher price for wholesale line rental than may previously had been expected.

[...]

MDR · 13-01-2004 3:19pm

nuts,

I thought we had a damn fast turn around considering .... )C:

Gadgie · 13-01-2004 3:19pm

I thought the last increase was approved by Comreg to facilitate wholesale line rental, was it not? If so, where the hell is it?

****ing eircom bastards. :mad:

dahamsta · 13-01-2004 3:21pm

Good to have someone active involved Dermot, but did you really have to start a new thread?

Moriarty · 13-01-2004 3:27pm

Threads merged.

vinnyfitz · 13-01-2004 3:39pm

According to RTE its already been approved by Comreg!

FFS - I thought they only applied this morning!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0113/eircom.html

MDR · 13-01-2004 3:41pm

don't think we can blame this one entirely on COMREG ,
just re-inforces we are fighting a loosing battle with Eircom,
and need alternative infrastructure.

Sleipnir · 13-01-2004 3:44pm

But how could Comreg possibly justify 3 price increases in one year?
I mean come on, an increase every 4 months!?!?

hmmm · 13-01-2004 3:44pm

You know, sometimes we accuse Comreg of acting too slow. I'm glad to see that when it comes to Eircom price rises they spring into action.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2004/0113/breaking47.htm

Comreg approves Eircom 8% line rental hike
By Luke Cassidy Last updated: 13-01-04, 13:12

The Commission for Communications Regulation (ComReg) has approved Eircom's request for an increase in the cost of telephone line rentals to around €24.

The telecom regulator approved the increase from February 4th, making it the the third successive increase in telephone-line rental in a year.

Eircom's line rental charges for residential consumers are currently the highest in the European Union at €22.50. The proposed increase in line rental would push the monthly fee to €24.30, almost €10 higher than the EU average for line rental during 2003 of about €14.

A recent EU report published on the telecommunications market highlighted that Eircom's 2003 monthly line rental was about €9 more than Britain's fee and €9.50 more than France's fee.

Mr Dermot Jewell from the Consumers' Association criticised Eircom by saying it was "obvious they [Eircom] have no interest in the impact the increases are having on their customers."

He said there were "thousands of customers who rely on line rentals with no option to shop around." This increase, he said, was "one more too much."

The Progressive Democrats communications spokesman, Senator Tom Morrissey, called Eircom's request an "outrage", and added: "Eircom users are getting increasingly frustrated at rising phone costs and justifiably so. Today's announcement is a real slap in the face."

The Labour Party's Mr Tommy Broughan said: "The consumer is being utterly exploited by Eircom. No matter where the phone user turns, they face ever-increasing costs."

MDR · 13-01-2004 3:46pm

apparentily they have agreed a 'pricing basket' with Eircom,
and as long as Eircom keeps within that overall basket they
can increase Line Rental.

I understand it entirely myself ...

Ripwave · 13-01-2004 4:35pm

Originally posted by Kananga
But how could Comreg possibly justify 3 price increases in one year?
I mean come on, an increase every 4 months!?!?

ComRegs position on this is that they don't have any power to stop it. They set a cap of the rate of inflation on a "basket" of eircom prices. So if oreillycom drop their prices in one part of the basket, they can increase it in other parts of the basket my greater than the rate of inflation.

(ComReg won't tell me how this "basket breaks down".)

oreillycom face competition for call charges and broadband, so the drop their prices there. They don't face any competition on Line rental, so they increase their prices there, by the rate of inflation plus whatever they've "saved" from the decreases that are forced on them by competition. The end result is that anyone who signs up for CPS with a 3rd party end up subsidising oreillycom to compete against their chosen CPS provider.

ComReg have argued that Wholesale Line Rental will "bring competition to the Line Rental" market. But oreillycom will still set the wholesale rate that other providers are charged. So there won't be any real competition, just a "margin" that WLR operators can play with (and anyway, oreillycom increase the line rental for everyone last year, to make up for the loss of this margin for the small percentage of users who might adopt a WLR package).

dahamsta · 13-01-2004 4:56pm

Consumers Association slams latest rise in Eircom charges
13/01/2004 - 1:59:51 pm

The Consumers Association has criticised the communications regulator’s decision to approve a 7.5% increase in Eircom’s fixed-line rental rates.

The increase, which takes effect on February 4, will bring the monthly rental rate to almost €24, one of the highest in the European Union. It will also be the third increase in the rate since the beginning of last year.

The Consumers Association has blamed a lack of competition in the telecommunications sector for the fact that Eircom can get away with such "unacceptable" price hikes.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/contact.asp

mike65 · 13-01-2004 5:07pm

I think IOFFL should be sending that statement directly to David McWilliams, Pat Kenny,
George Hook, The Sunday Business Show, The Register(!) and anyone else we can think of...

but what do we actually do beyond a well worded press release...?

Mike.

Capt'n Midnight · 13-01-2004 5:12pm

Originally posted by dwoodgate
Rest assured also that as soon as an alternative to your leased line comes available I will take that too.

Dermot

On bottom left of "whats new" green bar on www.comreg.ie
ComReg03/133 'In-Situ' Transfer of Leased Lines -Benefits to individuals and companies renting a leased line-

Thursday, November 20, 2003

Individuals/Companies can now choose an alternative provider for the leased line without a break in service and where equipment is already in place it is not necessary to pay full connection fee.
What's the catch ?

Cabaal · 13-01-2004 5:20pm

Originally posted by Kananga
But how could Comreg possibly justify 3 price increases in one year?
I mean come on, an increase every 4 months!?!?

if it keeps going at this rate in a few years line rental will cost as much as broadband per month

Maybe thats there plan?

Cuauhtemoc · 13-01-2004 5:36pm

I think i asked this before but...could Esat not start offering phone services over their unbundled lines?
Someone may know if that's feasible or cost effective.
Would be some sort of start wouldn't it?

On another note Eircom should be compelled to sell the last mile of the phone network to an independent body for fair regulation and management.
All telcos could then operate on a more level playing field, in the same way as the government plan to hang on to the esb grid if they are ever sold.
How such a monopoly can be allowed to exist is ridiculous. Never happen i know but one can dream!
________
C.

Ripwave · 13-01-2004 6:04pm

Originally posted by Cuauhtemoc
I think i asked this before but...could Esat not start offering phone services over their unbundled lines?

Because of failures at ComReg, LLU isn't economically feasible.

dahamsta · 13-01-2004 6:11pm

Um, this "basket" that's been mentioned, the hermetically sealed one? If this is true, the line rental increase has effectively been approved by dint of the DSL decrease, yes? However the wholesale decrease is far lower than the retail decrease and of course line rental hasn't (effectively) been deregulated yet, so isn't this automatically anti-competive?

By the way, there's no way in hell this "basket" (if it exists of course) should be a secret (if Ripwave is correct). The fact that it is (ditto the last bracket) should make IrelandOffline extremely suspicious. Why do the contents need to be hidden?

The whole things stinks to high heaven.

adam

Ripwave · 13-01-2004 6:38pm

Originally posted by dahamsta
Um, this "basket" that's been mentioned, the hermetically sealed one? If this is true, the line rental increase has effectively been approved by dint of the DSL decrease, yes?

No. Broadband makes up a timy fraction of the cost of telecommunications in Ireland. Even for those that have Broadband, it's probably responsible for less than half of total communications costs (spread over all BB users - I'm sure there are people who don't make any phonecalls), and less than 5% of oreillycoms customers have broadband, so it's a miniscule part of the "basket" (if it's even included).

The decreases that oreillycom will be offsetting against the increased linerental will be the recently promoted lowered call charges to Europe, and cuts in termination charges for some mobile communications.

Ripwave · 13-01-2004 6:49pm

Originally posted by dahamsta
By the way, there's no way in hell this "basket" (if it exists of course) should be a secret (if Ripwave is correct). The fact that it is (ditto the last bracket) should make IrelandOffline extremely suspicious. Why do the contents need to be hidden?

I didn't say it was secret. I said that they wouldn't tell me what how it was made up when I asked. In one of a series of responses from ComReg, a Mr Paul Brennan "explained" to me how, if CPI was 5% Eircom could only increase the Line Rental by 10% if the basket had a hypothetical weighting of 50%. When I responded that if the weighting was only 10%, they could raise Line Rental by 50%, and asked if the weightings were published he simply ignored that point, and insisted that "ComReg is satisfied that there is no margin squeeze and that eircom's
wholesale price is cost orientated." (I assume he was responding to my questions about WLR in the same note. The concept of inline-quoting was obviously beyond him, and he "top posted" his response).

Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence.

Yet another line rental increase imminent

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