[Article] Metro to save millions by banning tunnelling payouts

Victor · 18-10-2006 6:09pm #1

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/9118903?view=Eircomnet

Metro to save millions by banning tunnelling payouts
From:The Irish Independent
Wednesday, 18th October, 2006

HOUSEHOLDERS and businesses affected by work on Dublin's new underground Metro won't get a cent in compensation for extensive tunnelling under their property.

A new law kickstarted yesterday by the Government put a nil value on land below 10 metres.

The timing could not have been better as the exact route of the Metro - from Dublin city centre to Swords via Dublin Airport - is due to be announced by Transport Minister Martin Cullen as early as tomorrow. Environment Minister Dick Roche said the end of underground compensation will potentially save "both time and money in the Metro project".

It means the millions in compensation paid out to householders and businesses as a result of the Dublin Port tunnel underground tunnelling will not be repeated during the Metro project.

It has been confirmed that the new Metro line will run underground from St Stephen's Green through the Grafton Street area, past the gates of Trinity College and down Westmoreland Street to O'Connell Bridge. From there it will continue underground to the revamped Mater Hospital, and underground stations at Drumcondra, Griffith Avenue and DCU.

From DCU, the agency's preferred route is overground to two stations at Ballymun, Metro Park and on to the airport, where it will run underground again.

From the airport, it will travel overground to Fosterstown, Swords Estuary and finally the terminus in Lissenhall. One of the city-centre station's entrances is to be located on the northside, possibly at Bachelors Walk, the other on the southside of the river. The Railway Procurement Agency believes that underground mining will reduce traffic restrictions during the underground works at the station. These are set to start in 2009.

Meanwhile, rogue builders with a history of unfinished or badly left estates will be refused planning permissions under new laws approved yesterday in a new planning and development act.

The minister kickstarted section 9 of the Act which will enable planning authorities to withhold planning permissions from rogue developers on the basis of past history of non-compliance and not completing housing estates.

"Any such abuse of our planning code cannot be tolerated," said Mr Roche yesterday.

"In the past, some rogue developers have been getting away with not doing their jobs."

Until now, planning authorities have been required to prove an applicant's history of non-compliance with permissions or conditions of permissions before the High Court before they could act.

Burden

The new measure reverses the burden of proof and should make it easier for local authorities to tackle bad developers, insisted the minister.

Other important provisions approved yesterday include new powers for An Bord Pleanala to deal with appeals made primarily, or solely, with the intention of extracting money from the applicant.

Mr Roche said occasional spurious and groundless appeals were an unfortunate feature of our system.

"They pervert our democratic processes and divert time and resources away from dealing with authentic and justified appeals," he said.

Treacy Hogan

Idbatterim · 19-10-2006 12:58am

about time, thank god!

Slice · 19-10-2006 8:59am

Does this mean that the costings for Metro North will be revised to reflect these "savings"??

Alun · 19-10-2006 9:06am

I'm assuming that this means that people whose properties are being tunnelled under won't automatically get any form of compensation just for some perceived 'inconvenience', but if, say, there was any substantial structural damage, like Trinity College falling down (!), then surely they would be entitled to something?

Danno · 20-10-2006 12:36am

Yes, estimated costs were revised from 4bn to approx 1.2 to 1.4bn - according to todays indo.

Thank God!

Seth Brundle · 20-10-2006 8:45am

Given that the Govt are not issuing any of the financial details of this project we don't know how accurate the 1.2/1.4bn is.
What happens if all of the recieved tender bids are for 3 or 4bn? Will the Govt scrap the plan?

Slice · 20-10-2006 9:19am

Danno: Yes, estimated costs were revised from 4bn to approx 1.2 to 1.4bn - according to todays indo.

I don't think that revision had anything to do with this piece of legislation - the Indo could do better than to report such misleading information.

I thought the revision was from the RPA's original estimate to the one they made after we had a visit from an Official responsible for the Madrid Metro??

What I want to know is will the current estimates for Metro be revised to reflect this saving?? Or are the current estimates so vague as to make that impossible?

MarkoP11 · 20-10-2006 9:34am

The capital construction cost is probably in the 1.2 to 1.6 billion euro range and in fact its never been more than 1.72 billion has been quoted as the direct cost (but that was 2002 money) given it now serves Swords and the more complex stations and greater capacity the ballpark of 1.2 to 1.6 billion is reasonable and comparable with others elsewhere

The question really is how much is costs the state, the sting in the tail is the PPP element.

Consortia bid to build and run the metro for 25 years
Winning bidder based on submitted cost get a availabilty payment linked such that no money is handed over until it opens and the availabilty payment will be reduced if the company delivers a poor service.
So its in the interest of the builder to build on time and at below estimate to maximise return

If you take the construction cost and allow for a 25 year PPP framework you are probably looking at a total cost to the taxpayer of 4 billion ish euro, spread evenly over 25 years. Bear in mind Fingal CC have put up a heap of cash roumoured to be 200 to 300 million.

Quite detailed numbers on the costs are in the public domain. What is missing is the justification behind them and exactly whats included and what is not

Irish Rail published quite detailed costings on all their projects about 18 months ago and they are all in costs assuming the DoT writes a cheque and there are no loans used to pay, the IE numbers include design as well as a 10% risk, Irish Rail have been consistently on time under budget over the last 5 years which validates the numbers they have to much greater extent. The RPA numbers from 2004 don't include design or risk

Slice · 20-10-2006 10:31am

So did the original estimates for the Metro account for this legislation and the effect it would have on costing? Consequently, is it the case that the media are wrong to say this legislation will bring about savings for the cost of the Metro when in fact the Metro was always going to be tied to such legislation in the first place?

Sorry to bang on the same point repeatedly but I'm not any closer to understanding this. It's such a simply and obvious question to ask when it's being bandied about that this will save on the cost of Metro and yet I haven't seen it being raised anywhere - How does this legislation change the original costing for Metro??

If it has no effect whatsoever because it was always integral with plans for the Metro and accounted for in that respect then it begs the question; Is it the Government who are propagating this myth that it will bring about savings or is it a case of the media misinterpreting and misrepresenting information on infrastructure yet again?

MarkoP11 · 20-10-2006 11:00am

The 2004 RPA numbers assume 24/7 tunneling which is critical infrastructure bill which suggests the cost of land underground is taken as zero

And never trust the Indo the reporting has been very poor at times in recent months, the 1.7 billion and 4+ billion numbers are the same thing in fact, simple explanation

Cost of house = 350,000
Add cost of loan over 25 years
Then its closer to 600,000

How much did the house cost ?

Slice · 20-10-2006 11:51am

http://www.franklinandrews.com/projects/?mode=type&id=24443

According to the above website the costings for Metro is €2.5 billion.

Does anyone know how reliable this information is??

MarkoP11 · 20-10-2006 12:11pm

That would be the cost of Metro North and West in construction terms not allowing for PPP payments

[Article] Metro to save millions by banning tunnelling payouts

Comments