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School Website Design

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  • 13-01-2014 12:06pm
    #1
    cojobt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭


    Hi,

    I'm about to redesign our secondary school website. Currently we use scoilnet provided space, and a slightly restricted version of wordpress.com.

    I plan to have something as simple yet dynamic as possible:
    static pages for school info
    a blogroll for the front page
    one main menu with a number of submenus including curriculum specific pages
    possibly an interactive learning zone/hub

    I think moodle is too far, and blackboard is probably too much for us.

    What systems/services have you found effective?


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    #2
    M.T.D
    Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭M.T.D


    If you are familiar updating and adding content in WordPress you could stay with that. Use the .org version on less restrictive hosting.
    Pm me if you want more details


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    #3
    MyBusinez.com
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭MyBusinez.com


    Hi cojobt,
    I think wordpress is what you need. It is an easy to use solution for staff, parents and students alike. You may need to look at the version you have though if it is restrictive(?). You might be better off re-installing wordpress so you have a fresh copy to work with and then you can scale from there. Also you can get a Moodle plugin for Wordpress which is an eLearning system. This is what we use on some of our websites on www.schoolsites.ie .


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    #4
    GetWithIt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭GetWithIt


    This comes up every few months. I don't use these so really just observing from the sidelines, but why would anyone go to the expense - both time and money - of creating a completely bespoke site when ScoilNet gets you a goods ways of the way there?


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    #5
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    GetWithIt wrote: »
    This comes up every few months. I don't use these so really just observing from the sidelines, but why would anyone go to the expense - both time and money - of creating a completely bespoke site when ScoilNet gets you a goods ways of the way there?

    +1

    cojobt, does scoilnet allow you to install your own WordPress themes?

    Added:
    I do vaguely remember something about scoilnet being stuck on an old version of WordPress or limiting plugins or... some kind of restriction anyway.


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    #6
    daymobrew
    Registered Users Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    Graham wrote: »
    +1

    cojobt, does scoilnet allow you to install your own WordPress themes?

    Added:
    I do vaguely remember something about scoilnet being stuck on an old version of WordPress or limiting plugins or... some kind of restriction anyway.
    Yes, scoilnet is on an older version of WordPress (still 3.6.1 - 3.8 is current).
    You cannot install your own theme.
    You cannot install plugins.
    Very frustrating.

    I moved my son's school website from scoilnet to paid hosting.


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    #7
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    thanks daymobrew, I though it was something like that. That explains why every Scoilnet site looks like it was built using a free WP theme.


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    #8
    Kenny Logins
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭Kenny Logins


    GetWithIt wrote: »
    This comes up every few months. I don't use these so really just observing from the sidelines, but why would anyone go to the expense - both time and money - of creating a completely bespoke site when ScoilNet gets you a goods ways of the way there?

    Setting up and using a Wordpress.org installation really isn't a lot of work, and you have full control of the site layout, style, features etc. etc. I say if you have somebody capable and willing to do it, do it.


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    #9
    cojobt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cojobt


    GetWithIt wrote: »
    This comes up every few months. I don't use these so really just observing from the sidelines, but why would anyone go to the expense - both time and money - of creating a completely bespoke site when ScoilNet gets you a goods ways of the way there?

    After a couple of years of using the scoilnet service, I find it limiting. It's true that Scoilnet provides unlimited storage, but the version of Wordpress is restricted.

    The cost to the school would simply be a hosting plan. The site needs to be redeveloped or redesigned anyway, so there is no saving in terms of time.

    Scoilnet does indeed get you 'a good ways of the way there', but it doesn't get us all the way.


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    #10
    cojobt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cojobt


    Yeah, I am fairly keen to continue using Wordpress. The Scoilnet version is definitely rather frustrating - simple things like a Twitter feed are missing or unreliable. Custom themes are not an option which means we can't even include a custom menu (at least I haven't found a theme which will provide that).

    It looks like we are going to move to a hosting plan which supports full Wordpress functionality. It will cost under EUR100 for the year. I will build and maintain it myself, as I set up the original Scoilnet/Wordpress site.

    It would be nice if Scoilnet would change their hosting service to allow schools the option of installing the latest version of Wordpress and then hosting those sites, with guidelines and limitations regarding content and storage I suppose, but not design.


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    #11
    cojobt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cojobt


    MyBusinez.com wrote: »
    Hi cojobt,
    . Also you can get a Moodle plugin for Wordpress which is an eLearning system. .

    A Moodle plugin is very exciting! I looked at moodle a few years ago when I set up the current Scoilnet/Wordpress site, but it proved rather baffling...I also thought that there would have been very little interest amongst the staff. The demographics in the staff room have changed in the last couple of years (younger, tech-competent) and there is an interest in management in developing the school website. The ability to bring Moodle into Wordpress sounds quite future and idiot proof!

    Thanks for the tip.


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    #12
    cojobt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cojobt


    Can anyone advise on the benefits of signing up to an Irish host over an international host? A host like bluehost.com seems like excellent value: unlimited storage, unlimited bandwidth, updated Wordpress support, for approximately EUR 60 for one year.
    An 'Irish' host (which claims to be Irish but may have servers in America anyway) provides limited hosting for a higher cost...

    Any advice or opinions?


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    #13
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Any of the reputable Irish hosts I'm familiar with have servers in Ireland, if you're looking for pocket money hosting you are quite likely to come across many back-bedroom 'hosting' companies that do indeed run in the US (usually on cheap virtual private servers). Check with the pupils in your school, 1 or 2 of them are probably 'hosting companies'.

    Although blue host are reputable, there really is no such thing as unlimited anything. Irish mobile phone companies offer unlimited calls/texts on many packages, it's that type of unlimited.

    You can get inexpensive shared hosting from a reputable Irish hosting provider, one of my favourites is just under €50 per year including email. Admittedly they don't pretend that it's unlimited but to my mind that's a positive not a negative. Why would you host several thousand miles away from your target market?


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    #14
    cojobt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cojobt


    Graham wrote: »

    Although blue host are reputable, there really is no such thing as unlimited anything. Irish mobile phone companies offer unlimited calls/texts on many packages, it's that type of unlimited.

    I asked Bluehost what 'unlimited' meant, and would I be able to upload hundreds of photos to the website permanently. The sales guy replied saying that the ceiling is very high and on a basic plan, one can upload up to 20,000 files before there are issues.
    Why would you host several thousand miles away from your target market?

    That's like asking why would you send a book on the landscape of Ireland to China to be printed. It's cheaper. It's the internet. That's where my target market is. The target market will never know if the page they are looking at is hosted in Virginia, Co. Cavan or Virginia, USA.


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    #15
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    cojobt wrote: »
    I asked Bluehost what 'unlimited' meant, and would I be able to upload hundreds of photos to the website permanently. The sales guy replied saying that the ceiling is very high and on a basic plan......

    So it's not unlimited but they won't tell you what the limit is. To be honest, you're looking at a school website, I don't think you're going to have to worry about limits.
    cojobt wrote: »
    That's like asking why would you send a book on the landscape of Ireland to China to be printed. It's cheaper.

    No it's not like it at all, unless you're going to try and read the book from your comfy sofa in Ireland while it still sits on a bookshelf in Beijing.

    cojobt wrote: »
    The target market will never know if the page they are looking at is hosted in Co. Cavan or Dallas, Texas.

    Your target market may not know where your site is hosted, they may notice if your site is slow.

    There is a reason major web sites use content delivery networks to speed up delivery of their website assets, there is a reason content delivery networks have dozens of servers around the globe (clue: get the assets close to the consumer).

    I'm not saying your site will definitely be slow if you host it off-shore. I am saying that if your target market is in Ireland why would you run the risk, why wouldn't you keep your content close to your consumers? Cost can't be the only compelling reason unless €10/year is a deal breaker.


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    #16
    daymobrew
    Registered Users Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    cojobt wrote: »
    It would be nice if Scoilnet would change their hosting service to allow schools the option of installing the latest version of Wordpress and then hosting those sites, with guidelines and limitations regarding content and storage I suppose, but not design.
    They use WordPress MultiSite where there is 1 installation of the WordPress software that each site accesses.

    IMO they don't need to allow schools to install their own version but rather simply keep their version up to date.

    When I helped move my school site I was able to tell Scoilnet which database tables the school's data was in (they tried to claim that all data was mixed with other sites) and they gave me a phpMyAdmin export of those tables. I needed this because the basic Tools/Export from WordPress admin is not complete e.g. it doesn't have user info or plugin settings.


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    #17
    cojobt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cojobt



    No it's not like it at all, unless you're going to try and read the book from your comfy sofa in Ireland while it still sits on a bookshelf in Beijing.

    I'm afraid that analogy doesn't really ring true, but let's not split hairs trying to fix it.
    Your target market may not know where your site is hosted, they may notice if your site is slow.

    There is a reason major web sites use content delivery networks to speed up delivery of their website assets, there is a reason content delivery networks have dozens of servers around the globe (clue: get the assets close to the consumer).

    I'm not saying your site will definitely be slow if you host it off-shore. I am saying that if your target market is in Ireland why would you run the risk, why wouldn't you keep your content close to your consumers? Cost can't be the only compelling reason unless €10/year is a deal breaker.

    That is the kind of information I was looking for. So, you're saying that an off-shore server is more likely to make the website slow, while a local server should guarantee a better browsing experience. Is that correct?

    Initially I was going to choose an Irish company, then realised we get more space for less cash elsewhere. However, as you've pointed out, a school website will not require a lot of storage (although school photo galleries eat up space fairly quickly), and the cost is only a matter of €30 per annum. There's also the Buy Irish aspect too.


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    #18
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    On off-shore server has greater potential to slow down your website. Simply put, it adds more steps for the data to travel through before it reaches your targets browser. A local server doesn't guarantee a better browsing experience but it's less likely to slow it down.

    You're fixated by this concept of "unlimited" space, properly optimised photos shouldn't eat that much space. Just don't go uploading full-size images from your 40 megapixel camera directly to your web site.

    Here's what I like about the reputable Irish hosts:
    They're closer to the target market for Irish sites.
    They're smaller.
    Being smaller, if you need tech support, you're likely to end up talking to a tech person.
    They have hosting packages with reasonable limits.

    The downside of course is that they're generally a few €€more expensive because they don't have the same economies of scale. There is also at least one of the larger Irish hosts who have swapped ownership a few times and largely abandoned their shared hosting customer on their obsolete platforms.

    Here's what I like about the US Mega-Hosts
    Their products are extremely well integrated and automated.
    They're cheap.
    They often have APIs for developers to plug into.

    Here's the downsides.
    They offer 'unlimited packages'. This results either in server capacity being oversold or you get a shock when you discover what the limits are. You may suddenly get disconnected or your sites may have their processor/memory usage throttled.
    Tech support maybe automated.
    Human tech support normally starts in a call centre talking to an 'operative' with a flow chart. You will most likely never get to speak to a techie.

    I have no axe to grind here, I've no involvement in hosting other than being a consumer. I have sites/servers hosted with Irish hosts, I also have servers hosted in Europe/US. I pick the most appropriate in terms of requirements (including cost) for each project.

    For you, I'd recommend a .ie domain and an Irish host. If budget really was that tight I would suggest a .ie domain and a UK / US megahost.


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    #19
    daymobrew
    Registered Users Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    Graham wrote: »
    You're fixated by this concept of "unlimited" space, properly optimised photos shouldn't eat that much space. Just don't go uploading full-size images from your 40 megapixel camera directly to your web site.
    We have 10 GB space on a Carlow based company ;)
    We are using only 1 GB and have tons of photos for years.


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    #20
    cojobt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cojobt


    Mod edit:

    <snip>

    Read the charter please. No recommending/discussing hosting providers.


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    #21
    cojobt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cojobt


    daymobrew wrote: »
    When I helped move my school site I was able to tell Scoilnet which database tables the school's data was in (they tried to claim that all data was mixed with other sites) and they gave me a phpMyAdmin export of those tables. I needed this because the basic Tools/Export from WordPress admin is not complete e.g. it doesn't have user info or plugin settings.

    Hi daymobrew, can you pm me some details of how to do the same? I only want to recover an archive of posts.


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    #22
    daymobrew
    Registered Users Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    cojobt wrote: »
    Hi daymobrew, can you pm me some details of how to do the same? I only want to recover an archive of posts.
    Done. (I replied to show others that this is progressing)


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