Cultural and historical facts that amaze you

Cookie_Monster · 08-10-2015 3:11am

Peregrinus wrote: »

This has nothing to do with being Irish.

Here are the current NZ visa health-check requirements. Mostly, whether you need an x-ray or not depends on the class of visa you are applying for, not on where you come from. There are a few visa classes (e.g. student visas) where you may or may not require an x-ray, depending on where you have been living, but for those visa classes Ireland is on the list of places for which an x-ray is not required.

page 6 of that link specifically mentions TB and xray requirement. Ireland is now on the exempt list but we had to get an xray back in 2011 for Res Visas.

Peregrinus · 08-10-2015 3:45am

You would still have to get an x-ray for a resident visa - everybody does. Had you been applying for temporary visa back in 2011, you would not have had to provide an x-ray because Ireland was then (as it is now) on the "low incidence" list.

The point is that there is no circumstance where you have to get an x-ray because you are Irish. There are some visas for which everyone requires an x-ray, regardless of nationality. There are some visas for which some people require x-rays but Irish people are among those who do not. But there are no visas for which some people require x-rays and Irish people are among those who do.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 08-10-2015 4:08am

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Ireland was a fully independent state for about 6 or 7 years during the Catholic Confederacy until the arrival or Cromwell, that was the last time Ireland was a fully united independent state.

Not entirely true, as Dublin remained loyal to England.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Try Stalingrad. Roughly 300,000 German surrounded.

90,000 survived to surrender. Many died soon afterwards from disease and starvation others perished in the gulags.
Less than 6,000 made it back to Germany

The Hiwi's had it worse. They were the non-German volunteers.
Typically Russian POWs were lined up and asked to volunteer into the Germany Army one by one. Anyone who said no was shot.

For mass killing the rate at which the three million Russian POW's died during the first few months of the German invasion by mistreatment and neglect by the regular Germany Army was not seen during the Holocaust. Probably only the genocide in Rwanda came close.

Cambodia was unreal. Pretty much every person on boards.ie would have been killed. Stuff like wearing glasses or understanding a bit of French. IIRC there were THREE doctors left in the country.

Roll back to the 19th century and the War of the Triple Alliance where pretty much every able bodied male in Paraguay was killed and WWII could have been so much worse.

Paraguay is a fascinating place, even though the dueling myth isn't true.

It became independent seperately from the other South American nations (A rarity, as the others often fought together and only split afterwards) and more than any other country blended native and Spanish customs- this was intentional, as the country's dictator often forced inter-cultural marriage. Almost everybody there is bilingual in Spanish and Guarani.

They also remained almost totally isolated from the outside world for decades before taking on Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay at the same time and nearly being destroyed in the war that followed.

Later on, they were home to Latin America's longest-lasting dictatorship, as well as being a refuge for lots of Nazis after WWII.

recylingbin · 08-10-2015 2:42pm

The Chilean minors were , in fact, all over 18.

youtube! · 08-10-2015 3:30pm

A large solar storm like The Carrington event in 1859 would wipe our modern way of living out today and bring us back centuries , it is totally likely that this will happen again and yet maybe 1 in a 150 have even a clue about it!

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/03/110302-solar-flares-sun-storms-earth-danger-carrington-event-science/

Wibbs · 08-10-2015 3:37pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

We've found traces of flowers in Neanderthal graves.

The jury is out on that one Cap. Yes they found flower pollen in the soil around the bodies, but they also found burrows of a local rodent native to the area that collects the same plants in summer to use as bedding. It's just as likely they brought in the plant remains. *controversial*

IMHO Neandertals didn't bury their dead, or if they did they did so extremely rarely. None of the so called "burials" convince me much.

Jawgap · 08-10-2015 4:30pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The Famine always seems to be the major devastating event in The Irish past but the below is far less well known:

From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade.

It wasn't slavery as such it was indentured servitude - not that it probably made a whole lot of difference to those who experienced it.

All told from the Cambro-Norman invasion to the 20th Century, Ireland experienced 7 other famines on a par with the Great Famine and quite a few 'lean' periods.

In other news, all the American Divisions deployed on D-Day were green (bar the 1st Division).

silverharp · 08-10-2015 4:39pm

One of the reasons English has less grammer than other languages is because of the Viking influence , essentially the dialect of non native speakers became the main dialect. ....awaits to have this half remembered fact destroyed.

recylingbin · 08-10-2015 5:09pm

youtube! wrote: »

A large solar storm like The Carrington event in 1859 would wipe our modern way of living out today and bring us back centuries , it is totally likely that this will happen again and yet maybe 1 in a 150 have even a clue about it!

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/03/110302-solar-flares-sun-storms-earth-danger-carrington-event-science/

I assume that the Three network would be unaffected.

LordSutch · 08-10-2015 7:18pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade.

:cool: scratches head...

So you're saying that 'The English' killed over 500,000 Irish people in Ireland over a twelve year period.

Excuse me, but I've never heard anything about this before. It's like something out of the Jewish holocaust, presumably Irish people were being hung, drowned, beheaded and shot every other day? And how come I don't remember this from school? Maybe it's a new take on history? or.....?

I'm still unclear about this murder fest, its totally off the scale

Please explain,expand the facts please Cookie_Monster.

08-10-2015 7:25pm

LordSutch wrote: »

:cool: scratches head...

So you're saying that 'The English' killed over 500,000 Irish people in Ireland over a twelve year period.

Excuse me, but I've never heard anything about this before. It's like something out of the Jewish holocaust, presumably Irish people were being hung, drowned, beheaded and shot every other day? And how come I don't remember this from school? Maybe it's a new take on history? or.....?

I'm still unclear about this murder fest, its totally off the scale
Please explain,expand the facts please Cookie_Monster.

And just to fire another into the mix, the Famine of 1740-41 may have killed almost 40% of the population, proportionately much greater than than just over 100 years later.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Famine_(1740–41)

Tigger · 08-10-2015 7:34pm

When we celebrate next years centinery it's 50 years since nelson got blowed up

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson%27s_Pillar

Eugene Norman · 08-10-2015 7:55pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And just to fire another into the mix, the Famine of 1740-41 may have killed almost 40% of the population, proportionately much greater than than just over 100 years later.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Famine_(1740–41)

It might also have been an actual famine.

darkpagandeath · 08-10-2015 8:00pm

Hang on, What news network do we Report the British created the Potato blight ?

Eugene Norman · 08-10-2015 8:01pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Hang on, What news network do we Report the British created the Potato blight ?

The one in your head?

PopePalpatine · 08-10-2015 8:02pm

The Battle of Kursk was the biggest tank battle in history, involving at least 1,500 tanks (~900 for the Soviets, ~600 for the Germans).

Eugene Norman · 08-10-2015 8:06pm

LordSutch wrote: »

:cool: scratches head...

So you're saying that 'The English' killed over 500,000 Irish people in Ireland over a twelve year period.

Excuse me, but I've never heard anything about this before. It's like something out of the Jewish holocaust, presumably Irish people were being hung, drowned, beheaded and shot every other day? And how come I don't remember this from school? Maybe it's a new take on history? or.....?

I'm still unclear about this murder fest, its totally off the scale
Please explain,expand the facts please Cookie_Monster.

The figures for war deaths range from 20% of the population to 40%. Not all planned in the manner of the holocaust but that doesn't leave Cromwell or his armies and successors of the hook since there was a definite plan of actual cultural and ethnic genocide. The cromwellian plantations were designed to, at the very least, destroy the culture and remove much of the population to hell, or Connaught.

The figures cookie_monster gave for the indentured servitude/slavery is exaggerated though. It was about 50,000

LordSutch · 08-10-2015 8:10pm

Eugene Norman wrote: »

The figures for war deaths range from 20% of the population to 40%. Not all planned in the manner of the holocaust but that doesn't leave Cromwell or his armies and successors of the hook since there was a definite plan of actual cultural and ethnic genocide. The cromwellian plantations were designed to, at the very least, destroy the culture and remove much of the population to hell, or Connaught.

The figures cookie_monster gave for the indentured servitude/slavery is exaggerated though. It was about 50,000

Indeed, war death are one thing, and I thought Cromwell was here to fight the English Royalists, so maybe some of the figures were not just Irish casualties? (I dont know).

I still can't get over that 500.000 figure though

What's that about?

tomwaterford · 08-10-2015 8:14pm

LordSutch wrote: »

I thought Cromwell was here to fight the English Royalists, so maybe some of the figures were not just Irish casualties? I dont know.

I still can't get over that 500.000 figure though

What's that about?

AFAIK it's true!
It's said it's the closest the Irish came to extinsion....there was a very good thread on it in the history forum a few years back!!

Another historical fact that amazes me is that the end of WW1 was reasonably flagged...but dispite all deaths etc...the two sides kept killing more or less up to the last minute...deaths which would achieve nothing

darkpagandeath · 08-10-2015 8:15pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Indeed, war death are one thing, and I thought Cromwell was here to fight the English Royalists, so maybe some of the figures were not just Irish casualties? (I dont know).

I still can't get over that 500.000 figure though

What's that about?

Must have been the largest standing army in Europe, Possibly anywhere at the time killed here then so. Well if the 500k is accurate.

Eugene Norman · 08-10-2015 8:21pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Indeed, war death are one thing, and I thought Cromwell was here to fight the English Royalists, so maybe some of the figures were not just Irish casualties? (I dont know).

I still can't get over that 500.000 figure though

What's that about?

Well 20-40% of the population died not just in the original campaign by Cromwell but subsequent guerrilla wars fought ferociously by both sides. It was slash and burn. Crops were burnt. Villages destroyed. Mostly by the model army.

I wouldn't say those deaths were planned systematically though, although Cromwell did plan to plant Ireland that didn't work in the same way as Ulster, partially because the place was so unappealing after his army (and the rebels) were done with it.

Cromwell himself didn't cause that many deaths but cromwells campaign in Ireland was like desert storm and the rest of the campaign was like the attritional wars post 2003.

secondattempt · 08-10-2015 8:22pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Must have been the largest standing army in Europe, Possibly anywhere at the time killed here then so. Well if the 500k is accurate.

I always understood that the Irish population was reduced by about 40% during this period due to war, famine, emigration, deportation, those massacres etc. Not surprisingly giving the religious slaughter that was going on in Germany around the same time.

Eugene Norman · 08-10-2015 8:23pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Must have been the largest standing army in Europe, Possibly anywhere at the time killed here then so. Well if the 500k is accurate.

You are covering yourself in glory in this thread. Nobody said the deaths were just military.

secondattempt · 08-10-2015 8:24pm

This is too vague to be a fact but the Romans were absolutely amazing. The more I find out about them the more impressed I am. 2000 years ago they were running things a lot more successfully than many third world countries are doing today.

LordSutch · 08-10-2015 8:25pm

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Well 20-40% of the population died not just in the original campaign by Cromwell but subsequent guerrilla wars fought ferociously by both sides. It was slash and burn. Crops were burnt. Villages destroyed. Mostly by the model army.

I wouldn't say those deaths were planned systematically though, although Cromwell did plan to plant Ireland that didn't work in the same way as Ulster, partially because the place was so unappealing after his army (and the rebels) were done with it.

Cromwell himself didn't cause that many deaths but cromwells campaign in Ireland was like desert storm and the rest of the campaign was like the attritional wars post 2003.

OK, now the picture is beginning to get a bit clearer, thanks.

That original post by Cookie_Monster was totally misleading, twisted & sensational.

darkpagandeath · 08-10-2015 8:41pm

Eugene Norman wrote: »

You are covering yourself in glory in this thread. Nobody said the deaths were just military.

I know, It was sarcasm. It was presented that it was a whole scale organised slaughter and then revised to fighting between two sides. 500K in those days was a stupidly large number of people. Europe then would have only had about 10% of the people we have now.

Riddle101 · 08-10-2015 8:48pm

There was more time between the Stegosaurus and the Tyrannosaurus Rex than between Tyrannosaurus Rex and Us - The Stegosaurus lived 150 million years ago, while the T-Rex lived 65 million years ago.

The first pyramids were built while the woolly mammoth was still alive - While most mammoths died out 10,000 years ago, a small population still survived until 1650 BC. By that point, Egypt was halfway through its empire, and the Giza Pyramids were already 1000 years old.

Oxford University is older than the Aztecs! - Teaching started in Oxford as early as 1096, and by 1249, the University was officially founded. The Aztec civilization as we know it began with the founding of Tenochtitlán in 1325.

The galaxies we observe are millions of years in the past and could actually be dead - The Andromeda galaxy is our closest galactic neighbor at 2.5 million light years away. That means that light from Andromeda takes 2.5 million years to reach us, and when it finally does, the light produces a picture of the galaxy that is 2.5 million years out of date. For all we know, many galaxies and stars we observe may be long gone.

Cleopatra who was the last Pharaoh of Egypt lived closer to our time, than she did to first Pharaoh of Egypt.

Markcheese · 08-10-2015 9:51pm

Wibbs wrote: »

The jury is out on that one Cap. Yes they found flower pollen in the soil around the bodies, but they also found burrows of a local rodent native to the area that collects the same plants in summer to use as bedding. It's just as likely they brought in the plant remains. *controversial* IMHO Neandertals didn't bury their dead, or if they did they did so extremely rarely. None of the so called "burials" convince me much.

Lake mungo in Nsw Australia (no water by the way ) has (or had) the oldest ritually buried modern humans known-could be anywhere between 60 and 80,000 years old .powdered ochre was found in the graves - it's assumed that the bodies had been ritually covered in ochre before burial -

PopePalpatine · 08-10-2015 9:56pm

Wibbs wrote: »

The jury is out on that one Cap. Yes they found flower pollen in the soil around the bodies, but they also found burrows of a local rodent native to the area that collects the same plants in summer to use as bedding. It's just as likely they brought in the plant remains. *controversial* IMHO Neandertals didn't bury their dead, or if they did they did so extremely rarely. None of the so called "burials" convince me much.

You'd think they'd do radio-carbon dating on those pollen samples.

Markcheese · 08-10-2015 10:03pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Must have been the largest standing army in Europe, Possibly anywhere at the time killed here then so. Well if the 500k is accurate.

Most probably would have been civilians - most would probably have died from famine caused by killing livestock and destroying crops -

myhorse · 08-10-2015 11:29pm

Riddle101 wrote: »

The galaxies we observe are millions of years in the past and could actually be dead - The Andromeda galaxy is our closest galactic neighbor at 2.5 million light years away. That means that light from Andromeda takes 2.5 million years to reach us, and when it finally does, the light produces a picture of the galaxy that is 2.5 million years out of date. For all we know, many galaxies and stars we observe may be long gone.

That's the first time I have actually understood how it works. Thanks

Stereomaniac · 08-10-2015 11:38pm

Riddle is after blowing my mind with that post. I feel very small looking out the window here.

Cookie_Monster · 08-10-2015 11:55pm

LordSutch wrote: »

OK, now the picture is beginning to get a bit clearer, thanks.

That original post by Cookie_Monster was totally misleading, twisted & sensational.

take it or leave it...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Cromwell#Irish_campaign:_1649.E2.80.931650

LeinsterDub · 08-10-2015 11:57pm

That 99% of the facts in this thread are untrue

Aurum · 08-10-2015 11:57pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Local cultural fact? You see those spaces between words we take as a given? A recent enough development in language. In ancient Rome, Greece, China, Mesopotamia et al, it was morealongthelinesofwordsrunningintoeachotherandyouhadtotakeyourtimetowadethroughitall. At some earlier points some Romans had added dots so it.was.a.little.easier.to.work.out.what.was.what but the spaces between letters and the punctuation that followed? That was Irish monks transcribing new languages to them like Latin and Greek and adding in the spaces.

There was a really interesting episode of the Allusionist podcast about that.

gojony · 09-10-2015 12:08am

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Toilet paper wasn't invented until 1857.

How did early man survive?

Nokia used to make toilet paper back in the day. They even imported it to Ireland.

Notavirus.exe · 09-10-2015 12:11am

gojony wrote: »

Nokia used to make toilet paper back in the day. They even imported it to Ireland.

No wonder I've always associated Nokia phones with shit. :rolleyes:

Wibbs · 09-10-2015 12:12am

Markcheese wrote: »

Lake mungo in Nsw Australia (no water by the way ) has (or had) the oldest ritually buried modern humans known-could be anywhere between 60 and 80,000 years old .powdered ochre was found in the graves - it's assumed that the bodies had been ritually covered in ochre before burial -

The oldest definite human burial so far found is in Qafzeh Israel at circa 100,000 years. Again, like the example you give ochre was involved. Personally I'm not so sure funeral practices are that big a deal as far as the modernity of the human mind is concerned. There are and have been so many different solutions to the disposal/reverence of the dead among us modern humans.

PopePalpatine wrote: »

You'd think they'd do radio-carbon dating on those pollen samples.

Sadly PP the dates are older than RC dating can nail down.

garrixfan · 09-10-2015 1:40am

I legit thought native american languages.had died out..mindblown

whisky_galore · 09-10-2015 11:16am

'Dublin Mean Time' was 25 minutes behind Greenwich Mean Time and was abolished in 1916.

Ireland fell out of synchronisation with Britain during World War II, with the introduction of 'Double Summer Time', when the clocks were advanced by two hours across Britain to allow more work to take place during daylight hours. This resulted in letters to newspapers, pointing out that when Aer Lingus offered a Dublin-Belfast route, one could leave Belfast at 10, and arrive in Dublin at 9:30, apparently before ever departing.

Markcheese · 09-10-2015 3:29pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

take it or leave it...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Cromwell#Irish_campaign:_1649.E2.80.931650

The more you read of our history (especially from Tudor times on ) the less fantastic and unrealistic game of thrones seems -

Also to quote Vic Reeves -" 95% of all statistics are made up on the spot "

Paddy Cow · 09-10-2015 6:36pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

take it or leave it...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Cromwell#Irish_campaign:_1649.E2.80.931650

This clip is very interesting. I would love to visit there one day.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QHYFXDGf4Y

St Patrick's day is only a national holiday in four places - Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, the Canadian province of Newfoundland and Labrador and the British Overseas Territory of Montserrat.

We had some Canadian guests staying with us and their accents threw me. They had the Canadian aspect but their was also a distinct Irish sound to it. It was like someone who had lived half their lives in Canada/Ireland and had a mixed accent. I had to say it to them because the Irish part was so clear and I couldn't understand it. They said they were from Newfoundland which had a big Irish influence.

Badly Drunk Boy · 09-10-2015 7:22pm

Paddy Cow wrote: »

We had some Canadian guests staying with us and their accents threw me. They had the Canadian aspect but their was also a distinct Irish sound to it. It was like someone who had lived half their lives in Canada/Ireland and had a mixed accent. I had to say it to them because the Irish part was so clear and I couldn't understand it. They said they were from Newfoundland which had a big Irish influence.

Have you ever watched Republic of Doyle, set in Newfoundland, about father and son private investigators? You'll hear a good few Irish-sounding accents on that. The father is played by Sean McGinley who is Irish.

castletownman · 09-10-2015 7:40pm

Probably my favourite fact from the bastion of facts QI:

The invention of the teacup changed the course of Chinese history, because it was invented so early. The thing is that the Chinese never drank wine and people in the West liked to drink it in glass. The invention of glass meant that we also had the technology of lens grinding, telescopes and microscopes.

The invention of spectacles meant that intellectuals and scientists had an extra 15-20 years of a reading and active life. Also came the invention of beakers, flasks and retorts, which was useful because glass is chemically neutral.

Between the 14th century and the 19th century, no glass was made in China. It also meant that they had no mirrors and their windows were made out of paper, which meant they had dark houses. So, the point is that since they liked drinking tea from the teacup, they never bothered to try to invent glass.

Earthhorse · 09-10-2015 7:49pm

In a way, that makes no sense; how would you know you enjoyed drinking from a glass unless you first invented glass?

mfceiling · 09-10-2015 7:55pm

The thing I have taken most from this thread is that I need to go for a pint with wibbs.

Capt'n Midnight · 09-10-2015 10:10pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

'Dublin Mean Time' was 25 minutes behind Greenwich Mean Time and was abolished in 1916..

Go back to 1874 and clocks all around Dublin had their pendulums synchronised electrically to the master clock in Dunsink.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1987IrAJ...18...23W

NTP has been around a lot longer than you think

For the Romans six o'clock was when the sun set or rose regardless of time of year or where you were.
Due to the need for monks to pray at certain times which occur in darkness in the winter, western culture has been very, very interested in measuring hours, minutes and seconds.

pauldla · 10-10-2015 1:55am

castletownman wrote: »

Probably my favourite fact from the bastion of facts QI:

The invention of the teacup changed the course of Chinese history, because it was invented so early. The thing is that the Chinese never drank wine and people in the West liked to drink it in glass. The invention of glass meant that we also had the technology of lens grinding, telescopes and microscopes.

The invention of spectacles meant that intellectuals and scientists had an extra 15-20 years of a reading and active life. Also came the invention of beakers, flasks and retorts, which was useful because glass is chemically neutral.

Between the 14th century and the 19th century, no glass was made in China. It also meant that they had no mirrors and their windows were made out of paper, which meant they had dark houses. So, the point is that since they liked drinking tea from the teacup, they never bothered to try to invent glass.

They're still having a few problems with it, but their ambition is admirable.

Don't look down: officials close Chinese glass skywalk after pane shatters

10-10-2015 2:08am

An English business man wanted to give free samples of tea leaves to his customers and so put them into silk pouches. When his customers received them, they were utterly perplexed as to what to do with the bags, not realizing you were supposed to put the leaves in the water, and instead dipped the whole bag.

Thus teabags were created.

Qualitymark · 10-10-2015 3:55am

Jawgap wrote: »

Yep - I remember that along with radios that you removed and took with you - they evolved into ones where you just took the front part......

.......my Dad removing the distributor cap when he came home from work each evening - thieves just brought a bag of distributor caps when they went robbing

.....big fúck-off chains you'd wrap around the seat mounts and steering wheel as well as all kinds of contraptions for locking a steering wheel

....shatter files for breaking windows and hair thin wire for pulling locking mechanisms

.....the Guards getting 2.8L Granadas to chase the scroats

.....it almost make you nostalgic for those long summer evenings listening to the car chases on the radio scanner:)

Bicycle theft is the modern equivalent.

Anyone wanting to find out about 16th- and 17th-century Ireland can read Nicholas Canny's Making Ireland British.

Incidentally, the concept of Dublin "remaining loyal to Britain" is a bit of a weasel word. The reason Dublin was "loyal" is that it was an English town, which it was illegal for any Irish person to enter without a pass. John Aubrey's Brief Lives, a book full of amusing stories about the great and the good, has one about this:

(It was a) capital (offence) for a native Irishman to come to Dublin without a passe. Sir . . . espying . . . went into the corne . . . found him and hung him up immediately

https://archive.org/stream/briefliveschiefl02aubruoft/briefliveschiefl02aubruoft_djvu.txt for Aubrey's entertaining Brief Lives.

Cultural and historical facts that amaze you

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