Ian O'Doherty

RDM_83 again · 04-10-2015 2:15pm

crybaby wrote: »

Please provide some examples of Nodin attacking working class Irish taxpayers.

Such a lazy tactic of the right, accuse the left of not caring about the working class when actually all of the policies of the left are there to improve the lives of the working class. Next up you will be calling him a loony lefty or a member of the PC brigade or could he possible be part of that awful organization - the do-gooders

Non-EU migration has a negative economic effect on the bottom 5% of the current inhabitants is a quick example, so the poorer working class suffer.

Tony EH · 04-10-2015 2:20pm

Thomas998 wrote: »

On a side note - it's rather disgusting that you have to make slurs about alcohol and the like when you disagree with someone's views.

Oh please...like the man in question is above such angles himself. :pac:

Tony EH · 04-10-2015 2:25pm

Rabo Karabekian wrote: »

This is a perfect example of all that's wrong with O'Doherty. He is critical of Obama's Middle East policy (and rightly so: it's a fairly disastrous and seriously misguided one) but still writes pieces praising Bush, who not only had a worse Middle East policy, but is responsible for a lot of the chaos that's endemic in the region at the moment. Indeed, as far as I recall, O'Doherty was a big supporter of that war.

Agreed. Completely subjective opinion, doused in an unhealthy and mindless adherence to a narrow political "focus".

Obama may be a bad President, but compared to Bush he's light years ahead.

FFS...such short memories some people have.

kupus · 04-10-2015 3:06pm

Boring username wrote: »

So, three pages in and so far we've had:
vague threats of violence

accusations of alcoholism

insinuation of cocaine use

jibes that he might be of remedial or special needs

various other character assassinations

And all because he arranges words in an order you dislike. Have I stumbled into 4Chan by accident?
Wait, let me guess-it's ok in this case because moral superiority or something like that....... :rolleyes:
Some of you would want to have a serious chat with yourselves.

THats how everything the left dont like is treated, deny, deflect and finally defame.

im actually glad people are waking up to their tactics and how leftofacism works.

kupus · 04-10-2015 3:12pm

Thomas998 wrote: »

The majority of things he takes issue with are legitimate, in my view. Obama's foreign policy in the Middle East has been awful. That's not an opinion, it's a simple fact. Ian O'Doherty's denunciation of BLM thugs was also very welcome. And so forth, really.

In what is almost a blanket left-wing and liberal Irish media, O'Doherty is the only one who actually speaks the truth. If you disagree with him, you don't have to read his articles - his is the only column in the paper that could be described as right-wing. But he's refreshingly blunt in a media that's been coated in the art of offending no-one by saying nothing.

On a side note - it's rather disgusting that you have to make slurs about alcohol and the like when you disagree with someone's views. If his ideas are so bad, then it should be easy to demolish them, and you certainly shouldn't have to resort to underhanded digs in an attempt to reduce his credibility. It's pathetic.

I hope that when you read this post and it offends you, you don't begin to imply I have an alcohol problem.

I wouldnt hold the view that he is right wing, he may have some leanings just like i have....
im pro choice, pro marriage, pro immigrants pro a lot of friggin things the biggest being pro cop the fcuk on.

Snake Plisken · 04-10-2015 3:23pm

Nodin wrote: »

He actually is an ignorant over-aggressive sneering prick. .

So he comes across a bit like yourself then!

sabat · 04-10-2015 3:28pm

Boring username wrote: »

insinuation of cocaine use

He's written about his toot habit in the past.

BuilderPlumber · 04-10-2015 4:17pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Agreed. Completely subjective opinion, doused in an unhealthy and mindless adherence to a narrow political "focus".

Obama may be a bad President, but compared to Bush he's light years ahead.

FFS...such short memories some people have.

Obama is a typical US president no different to Clinton. I think he did the best he could with the hand that was dealt to him. Bush was a total disaster and his decision to invade Iraq was the greatest mistake ever made in modern times by a US president.

IoD is one of these types who seem to be willing to criticise all that is wrong in the left side of things but sees nothing wrong with the right. His views on certain communities border on fascist.

BuilderPlumber · 04-10-2015 4:24pm

Rabo Karabekian wrote: »

One of the reasons I dislike O'Doherty is that he is writing to fit an agenda (the supposedly contrarian viewpoint that actually highlights some easy hits that, for a paper like the Indo, are saying exactly what the majority of his audience thinks).

This is a perfect example of all that's wrong with O'Doherty. He is critical of Obama's Middle East policy (and rightly so: it's a fairly disastrous and seriously misguided one) but still writes pieces praising Bush, who not only had a worse Middle East policy, but is responsible for a lot of the chaos that's endemic in the region at the moment. Indeed, as far as I recall, O'Doherty was a big supporter of that war.

You can be sure IoD was one of the biggest supporters of the Iraq war. Obamas Middle East policy is all about trying (rather unsuccessfully) to clean up the mess Bush created. It is easy to judge Obama's attempts as a failure but the seeds were planted ever before he became president.

Bush was much less intelligent than Obama and was a head of a neo-con regime that was pro-war 100%. Obama has improved relations with both Cuba and Iran. If we want these countries to be normal, we have to bring them in from the cold. A more moderate government has come to power in Iran. Ahmadinejad was a knee-jerk reaction to Bush and set previous attempts at improving thing backwards.

If the likes of IoD had his way, the US and Israel would be going to war with all these countries.

BuilderPlumber · 04-10-2015 4:43pm

Thomas998 wrote: »

The majority of things he takes issue with are legitimate, in my view. Obama's foreign policy in the Middle East has been awful. That's not an opinion, it's a simple fact. Ian O'Doherty's denunciation of BLM thugs was also very welcome. And so forth, really.

In what is almost a blanket left-wing and liberal Irish media, O'Doherty is the only one who actually speaks the truth. If you disagree with him, you don't have to read his articles - his is the only column in the paper that could be described as right-wing. But he's refreshingly blunt in a media that's been coated in the art of offending no-one by saying nothing.

On a side note - it's rather disgusting that you have to make slurs about alcohol and the like when you disagree with someone's views. If his ideas are so bad, then it should be easy to demolish them, and you certainly shouldn't have to resort to underhanded digs in an attempt to reduce his credibility. It's pathetic.

I hope that when you read this post and it offends you, you don't begin to imply I have an alcohol problem.

IoD is totally biased. It is true for sure that there are evil people that IoD criticises and rightly so but he is not speaking the truth when it comes to seeing nothing wrong in the invasion of Iraq.

IoD is the type who abuses free speech and interprets this right as the right to offend as he put it. This smacks of a journo who thinks he is greater than god. He is not the only one of his type either by the way: the Irish media is actually full of right-wing hardliners. Ruth Dudley Edwards, Eoghan 'Big Bow Wow' Harris, John Waters, etc. are other examples of ones that come to mind. They all are pro-Israel, pro-Bush/Republican Party, anti-Obama, anti-Iran, anti-Russia, anti-IRA, etc. Sometimes, they do get things right but more often than not, their blunt racist undertones shine through.

There are countries where there is no press freedom at all. But I think in countries like this, it is the opposite problem. The press have too much power and have become a sort of a dictatorship of their own. The press should fit into the workings of a civilised country and racism hiding behind free speech is not civilised.

BuilderPlumber · 04-10-2015 5:01pm

20Cent wrote: »

Dislike what O'Doherty writes, not because he's "right wing" or a "libertarian" but because it's badly written and badly researched.

Same here. He is always spouting poorly researched and very biased opinions. With regard to being 'right wing', that is a vague description. There are good and evil right wing people and some are moderate and rational and some hardline and irrational. Same with 'left wing'. I think IoD gives 'libertarianism' a bad name. Then he goes on about 'the right to offend' and thinks this is the ONLY aspect of free speech. Who the hell does he think he is? Tommy Tiernan!

RayM · 04-10-2015 5:04pm

If he worked on his writing skills, he'd fit in quite well on After Hours, with the "what's the most obnoxious opinion I could possibly express right now?" brigade.

c_man · 04-10-2015 5:18pm

People who have different views than me, and express them in an arrogant manner, are obviously doing so just for the money. I mean imagine, someone actually not sharing my opinion on a topic! Madness.

riffmongous · 04-10-2015 5:19pm

Did he have a go at boards once in one of his articles or was that someone else?

20Cent · 04-10-2015 5:44pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Did he have a go at boards once in one of his articles or was that someone else?

He quoted part of a post I made about occupy Wall Street in his column once, selecting the bits to make his point ignoring the others that went against it. Total spoofer.

Annasopra · 04-10-2015 5:54pm

Unfortunately mainstream modern media likes trollery dressed up as journalism now more than ever. It's clickbait. The more outrageous it is the more clicks it gets. Editors love more clicks cause it means they can claim higher readership to advertisers. It's disgusting, gutter "journalism" and particularly revels in attacking minorities or vulnerable people. It does need to continuously be challenged in various ways though whether that be pointing out the flawed arguments or using the weak press complaints mechanisms. Myers and O'Doherty have both been pulled up on their extreme hate speech rhetoric by the Press regulators.

Snake Plisken · 04-10-2015 6:06pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Unfortunately mainstream modern media likes trollery dressed up as journalism now more than ever. It's clickbait. The more outrageous it is the more clicks it gets. Editors love more clicks cause it means they can claim higher readership to advertisers. It's disgusting, gutter "journalism" and particularly revels in attacking minorities or vulnerable people. It does need to continuously be challenged in various ways though whether that be pointing out the flawed arguments or using the weak press complaints mechanisms. Myers and O'Doherty have both been pulled up on their extreme hate speech rhetoric by the Press regulators.

What so you would prefer I fully liberal left/Irish times style journalism? We need more journalists like Myers & O'Doherty to give alternative opinions on what's presented in the media, it might not tie in with your view of the world but we live in a western democracy at the moment where free speech is still allowed!

20Cent · 04-10-2015 6:19pm

How about journalists that print stories about things we don't know. Like actually investigate something. Look at the NAMA corruption story only made the news because of Jamie "fleg" Bryson and Mick Wallace. Where are our investigative reporters?
Instead its lowest common denominator click bait like O'Doherty.

NachoBusiness · 04-10-2015 6:29pm

Clickbait now seems to equal: 'opinion pieces that I don't agree with'.

Nodin · 04-10-2015 6:35pm

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Clickbait now seems to equal: 'opinion pieces that I don't agree with'.

"Factually incorrect opinion pieces"

20Cent · 04-10-2015 6:36pm

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Clickbait now seems to equal: 'opinion pieces that I don't agree with'.

Click bait
(on the Internet) content, especially that of a sensational or provocative nature, whose main purpose is to attract attention and draw visitors to a particular web page.

Take a look at the independent app it's at least 50% "what this gay blind dog did next will change your opinion of humanity" type stories.

*slight exaggeration but not far off.

Patrick Wheelock · 04-10-2015 6:38pm

I like him. The Twitter bullies hate him. You know the sort. He's also hated on Rabble and Broadsheet.

TheLastMohican · 04-10-2015 6:43pm

Menas wrote: »

There was an Iain O'Doherty in my class in school...he as all right like, but he left early to work in a pig factory and was illiterate. Dont think it is the same fella.

Jasus, I thought pigs grew from piglets. Didn't realise that they're factory made

Menas · 04-10-2015 6:44pm

TheLastMohican wrote: »

Jasus, I thought pigs grew from piglets. Didn't realise that they're factory made

The less we all know about how pork gets to our plate the better.

NachoBusiness · 04-10-2015 6:50pm

20Cent wrote: »

Click bait (on the Internet) content, especially that of a sensational or provocative nature, whose main purpose is to attract attention and draw visitors to a particular web page.

Take a look at the independent app it's at least 50% "what this gay blind dog did next will change your opinion of humanity" type stories.

*slight exaggeration but not far off.

Eh, I never said clickbait doesn't exist. I am disputing the notion that IoD's articles should be dismissed off as being such.

I don't him writing too many 'gay blind dog' articles.

goose2005 · 04-10-2015 6:55pm

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

I don't know the chap, but if I ever meet him down a darkened lane, well he better watch out like.

I agree, if it's dark you might bump into each other. Good to pay attention.

hinault · 04-10-2015 6:56pm

The man was not a star pupil at Templeogue College.In fact he was one of the weakest students in his school year.

Folk should bear that in mind when reading the drivel he writes and the drivel he spouts.

Annasopra · 04-10-2015 7:33pm

Snake Plisken wrote: »

What so you would prefer I fully liberal left/Irish times style journalism? We need more journalists like Myers & O'Doherty to give alternative opinions on what's presented in the media, it might not tie in with your view of the world but we live in a western democracy at the moment where free speech is still allowed!

No

I am saying O'Dohertys "journalism" is quite often nasty scurrilous attacks on minorities and that these should be challenged because in many cases they are lazy and untrue and in some cases they are clear hate speech. Challenging them through counter speech is part of free speech. Free speech cannot of course protect all speech because hate speech is illegal under Irish and European laws. When it strays too far into hate speech like O'Doherty did with Roma and Myers did with AIDS then it is necessary for press regulation and indeed probably even prosecutory authorities to intervene.

Thomas998 · 04-10-2015 8:12pm

I just find it incredibly hard to believe that people actually disagree with many things that he says.

He condemns the fact that Saudi Arabia can have the audacity to lecture Ireland on human rights when its own record is so remarkably poor in comparison.

He condemns how Ayaan Hirsi Ali, someone who speaks the truth, was subjected to a moderator at a debate in Ireland, while Anjem Choudhary, someone who supports the death of homosexuals, was allowed to speak freely.

He condemns how Saudi Arabia offer no aid to Europe to house migrants, but offers money to build mosques in Europe for them instead.

He condemns the attempt by Ali Selim to ban percussion instruments in primary schools because it offends Muslims.

He condemns how Saudi Arabia, among other countries, marched in the Charlie Hebdo parade while it lashed Raif Badawi for the temerity to criticise the regime.

Are there any of these that you would not also condemn? Because they all seem pretty black and white to me. And if you can't condemn these, then you can't simply dismiss O'Doherty as a lunatic bigot.

osarusan · 04-10-2015 8:31pm

If anybody wants to see just how truly woeful a writer and argument-builder he is, just read this:

http://www.citywide.ie/download/pdf/sterilising_junkies_may_seem_harsh_18_feb_2011_2.pdf

Snake Plisken · 04-10-2015 9:12pm

osarusan wrote: »

If anybody wants to see just how truly woeful a writer and argument-builder he is, just read this:

http://www.citywide.ie/download/pdf/sterilising_junkies_may_seem_harsh_18_feb_2011_2.pdf

Why nothing at all wrong with what he is saying, junkie scum should be sterilised. Obviously you and Nodin haven't spent any time in Dublin city centre!

Annasopra · 04-10-2015 9:15pm

Thomas998 wrote: »

I just find it incredibly hard to believe that people actually disagree with many things that he says.

He condemns the fact that Saudi Arabia can have the audacity to lecture Ireland on human rights when its own record is so remarkably poor in comparison.

He condemns how Ayaan Hirsi Ali, someone who speaks the truth, was subjected to a moderator at a debate in Ireland, while Anjem Choudhary, someone who supports the death of homosexuals, was allowed to speak freely.

He condemns how Saudi Arabia offer no aid to Europe to house migrants, but offers money to build mosques in Europe for them instead.

He condemns the attempt by Ali Selim to ban percussion instruments in primary schools because it offends Muslims.

He condemns how Saudi Arabia, among other countries, marched in the Charlie Hebdo parade while it lashed Raif Badawi for the temerity to criticise the regime.

Are there any of these that you would not also condemn? Because they all seem pretty black and white to me. And if you can't condemn these, then you can't simply dismiss O'Doherty as a lunatic bigot.

He condemns women for discussing their abortions

He condemns Irish people who show compassion towards refugees

He condemns people with an uncontrollable disease

He condemns positive campaigns as shrill and hysterical

He condemns Irish people, gay people, trans people, drug addicts, women, men, people with disabilities, human rights organisations, travellers, roma, refugees, politicians, muslims, catholics, pro life people, pro choice people, people who use twitter etc etc etc etc etc etc

All he ever does is whinge, attack and condemn

Sunnyisland · 04-10-2015 9:20pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

He condemns women for discussing their abortions

He condemns Irish people who show compassion towards refugees

He condemns people with an uncontrollable disease

He condemns positive campaigns as shrill and hysterical

He condemns Irish people, gay people, trans people, drug addicts, women, men, people with disabilities, human rights organisations, travellers, roma, refugees, politicians, muslims, catholics, pro life people, pro choice people, people who use twitter etc etc etc etc etc etc

All he ever does is whinge, attack and condemn

And let's not forget

O'Doherty believes anti-discrimination laws should be removed. Commenting on newstalk he said "the equality laws should be scrapped". [20]

Dirty Dingus McGee · 04-10-2015 9:24pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

He condemns women for discussing their abortions

I think he wondered why they needed to be proud of their abortion rather than why they needed to discuss it.Which was fair enough as frankly anyone who is proud of having an abortion is a bit insane if you ask me.There is a middle ground between pride and shame.

riclad · 04-10-2015 9:24pm

He write,s opinion pieces on what he thinks is funny,
or annoying , he,s anti political correctness .
Everything should be up for debate or criticism.
And he s very funny.
Saudia arabia is a very repressive country,
it sends people to jail who speak out and support human rights and free speech.
WE need more writers like him.

Menas · 04-10-2015 9:29pm

I wonder has anyone sent him a link to this thread yet.

"Hi Ian!"

Thomas998 · 04-10-2015 9:35pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

He condemns women for discussing their abortions

So he holds pro-life views. This is a common view in Ireland.

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

He condemns Irish people who show compassion towards refugees

He makes the point that Europe cannot take in the population of the Middle East. If we take in millions of refugees, millions more will arrive within a month. There simply isn't room. Again, in cold logic, this is patently true.

I do not have a solution to the migrant crisis myself, but I still know that the proposed solution won't work.

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

He condemns people with an uncontrollable disease

What disease are you talking about here?

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

He condemns positive campaigns as shrill and hysterical

Do you mean the campaign for gay marriage? He voted Yes. He also made the point that while he voted Yes, some of the behaviour of the Yes side was shameful, such as decrying anyone who voted No as a bigot and a homophobe, and defacing or destroying No posters. Which I would agree with.

You are free to believe that the above about the No side is true, but that would mean that you believe ~40% of Irish people are bigots and homophobes. Do you?

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

He condemns Irish people, gay people, trans people, drug addicts, women, men, people with disabilities, human rights organisations, travellers, roma, refugees, politicians, muslims, catholics, pro life people, pro choice people, people who use twitter etc etc etc etc etc etc

A lot of these are blanket accusations - it must be difficult to condemn both men and women. Unless you have a specific quarrel with a specific condemnation, this doesn't hold much water.

If I was assuming, I would make the assumption that his LGBT comments stung you, since you're a moderator of that forum and likely closely linked with the movement, and that your opinion of I'OD is somewhat compromised by this. But I am only assuming.

Thomas998 · 04-10-2015 9:35pm

I would like to repeat my hope that our differing opinions here don't cause vitriol to be spouted.

Massimo Cassagrande · 04-10-2015 9:37pm

The male Julie Burchill..

NachoBusiness · 04-10-2015 9:45pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

He condemns women for discussing their abortions

He condemns Irish people who show compassion towards refugees

He condemns people with an uncontrollable disease

He condemns positive campaigns as shrill and hysterical

He condemns Irish people, gay people, trans people, drug addicts, women, men, people with disabilities, human rights organisations, travellers, roma, refugees, politicians, muslims, catholics, pro life people, pro choice people, people who use twitter etc etc etc etc etc etc

All he ever does is whinge, attack and condemn

Don't think I have ever seen as much misrepresentation in a single post. Kudos.

mynameis905 · 04-10-2015 10:10pm

Menas wrote: »

There was an Iain O'Doherty in my class in school...he as all right like, but he left early to work in a pig factory and was illiterate. Dont think it is the same fella.

Sounds about right.

Annasopra · 04-10-2015 10:11pm

Thomas998 wrote: »

If I was assuming, I would make the assumption that his LGBT comments stung you, since you're a moderator of that forum and likely closely linked with the movement, and that your opinion of I'OD is somewhat compromised by this. But I am only assuming.

That's just the type of tactic IOD uses quite often - accuse people with differing views of being emotional, shrill and hysterical etc etc etc. It's quite an interesting tactic in that it doesn't deal with the substantive issues and it can often be subtly (and sometimes not so subtle) about shaming and dehumanising people.

suicide_circus · 04-10-2015 10:23pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

That's just the type of tactic IOD uses quite often - accuse people with differing views of being emotional, shrill and hysterical etc etc etc. It's quite an interesting tactic in that it doesn't deal with the substantive issues and it can often be subtly (and sometimes not so subtle) about shaming and dehumanising people.

Dehumanising? Gotta say, that's pretty shrill and hysterical language there man

Thomas998 · 04-10-2015 10:32pm

I am not sure how suggesting that your view of IOD may be biased due to his views on a group you clearly feel a part of would "shame and dehumanise" you, to be honest.

Annasopra · 04-10-2015 10:33pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Dehumanising? Gotta say, that's pretty shrill and hysterical language there man

Not at all

It's a tactic often used by IOD

See the example above about addicts

He describes addicts as; feral scum who probably shouldn't even be called women.

A glaring example of the dehumanisation tactics that he uses

DeadHand · 04-10-2015 11:01pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

That's just the type of tactic IOD uses quite often - accuse people with differing views of being emotional, shrill and hysterical etc etc etc. It's quite an interesting tactic in that it doesn't deal with the substantive issues and it can often be subtly (and sometimes not so subtle) about shaming and dehumanising people.

Undermining your own point there by being hysterical.

Shaming and dehumanising? Get over yourself.

We could do with a few more journalists like IOD.

Letree · 04-10-2015 11:30pm

He has no affinity with the new politically correct way of seeing the world. When i read one of his pieces he is basically echoing what i hear from people i meet when i'm out and about. Granted he is never going to be the darling of student union types or dare i say it your average boards.ie poster.

Btw I just don't know were all these lefties reside because i meet very little of them in everyday life.

PopePalpatine · 04-10-2015 11:51pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

That's just the type of tactic IOD uses quite often - accuse people with differing views of being emotional, shrill and hysterical etc etc etc. It's quite an interesting tactic in that it doesn't deal with the substantive issues and it can often be subtly (and sometimes not so subtle) about shaming and dehumanising people.

And of course, he's the logical, rational one. He'd be the sort to complain about that photo of Aylan Kurdi's body being "emotionally manipulative".

RDM_83 again · 04-10-2015 11:55pm

He's just the flipside too the various Guardian, Independent (uk) and Huffington post writers, you'l not see those getting annoyed with I'OD being annoyed with them and vice versa for those that like him.
As I said before though I don't think he is smart enough to make the arguments he does in a compelling way.
That said the way he gets a rise out of some of the people here makes me think maybe he is worthwhile ;-)

RDM_83 again · 04-10-2015 11:57pm

He's just the flipside too the various Guardian, Independent (uk) and Huffington post writers, you'l not see those getting annoyed with I'OD being annoyed with them and vice versa for those that like him.
As I said before though I don't think he is smart enough to make the arguments he does in a compelling way.
That said the way he gets a rise out of some of the people here makes me think maybe he is worthwhile ;-)

Ian O'Doherty

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