Budget 2016

Turtwig · 06-10-2015 1:32pm

If the economy is in recovery, inflation is steady, why is the government even considering stuff like tax reductions? There's no need for any outside stimulus. Why not save for a rainy day? Like we should have done last time. Or look at putting funds together for a project to fix the future messes we are going to face: energy security, health care, water shortages, more instances of flooding and storm damage. Ireland isn't out of the woods yet either. Still global factors outside our control that could drag us right back down to where we were. Unfortunately, politicians got to win elections apparently.

darkpagandeath · 06-10-2015 1:53pm

What has Germany Given the Green light to ? You know what do we have permission to do ?

Galwayguy35 · 06-10-2015 7:02pm

Sure vote in SF and that shower of gimps on the hard left and see what they will do if some think that the Government are doing nothing.

Avatar MIA · 06-10-2015 11:07pm

Turtwig wrote: »

Unfortunately, politicians got to win elections apparently.

You're Taoiseach, you've finally got FF out of power after what seems like forever and there's an election coming up. Considering the electorate and their expectations, Do you:-

A.) Do the fiscally sound thing and keep taxes steady and pay down the national debt, increase the pension fund (or some such)?

B.) Give away €1.5b and have a chance not to be replaced for 30 Paul Murphys and SF or a hung dail?

You Decide.

guylikeme · 06-10-2015 11:13pm

What are the gimmes of this for the working man.

We know from last year that equivalent tax cuts for the marginal rate and usc are promised this way. Anything else from leaks?

Stheno · 06-10-2015 11:20pm

Aiyana Scruffy Whole-wheat wrote: »

Personally I'll be voting this government back in if I can. I didn't vote for them last time but can see what they have achieved in the meantime while all opposition either calls foul on every initiative just for the sake of it or promises to wipe out all cutbacks and charges with no credible alternatives to finance the country being offered. We have taken a hit certainly under this government but I can just as certainly see things beginning to improve a lot earlier than I thought they would.
I am open to alternatives but nobody has produced any as yet. This budget seems to be aimed at reflecting the current financial situation as best it can but who on earth could come up a cure-all considering the mess we had a few years back?
All that said, it's pure speculation as to the content of the budget, so let's wait on specifics. Some people will never be happy and will always want to rant and complain but they are usually the ones with no practical workable alternatives. The old empty vessels types.

I agree with this view

AMKC · 06-10-2015 11:21pm

TallGlass wrote: »

Well, just around the corner now.

I knew something was up the government been very quite. So basically, it looks like motorists, workers and drinkers/smokers are in for a shafting this time around.

Welfare bonus to come back, I say even an increase to sweeten them up for a few votes.

Tell you one thing, nothing they will do in this budget will have me voting for them.

So lets start a list of how we have been shafted out of it by FG/LAB, i'll start with

Carbon levy and the insurance levy

I have no problem with the price of cigarettes and drink going up. I hope they rise both by a fiver and them other roll up cigarettes to should have a price increase of at least 10 euro,s. Them other electronic ones should rise in price too. That would solve a lot have health problems in the country because less people would be getting sick so less people in hospitals so they could save money there too because they would not have to spend as much money there trying to cure people from things like lung disease and cancer that they caused to themselves anyway.

But I think motorists and workers should not be shafted. Maybe just the rich one,s with there big Range Rovers, Audi A6s, A7s and the like they could afford to pay more.

Johnny D. Mudd · 06-10-2015 11:24pm

Am I the only one who finds it slightly disheartening that even if I felt that FG were not ideal candidates for the next election, there is still no viable alternative that would fill me or anyone else with any confidence? There really is no better alternative.

Avatar MIA · 06-10-2015 11:28pm

AMKC wrote: »

I have no problem with the price of cigarettes and drink going up. I hope they rise both by a fiver and them other roll up cigarettes to should have a price increase of at least 10 euro,s. Them other electronic ones should rise in price too. That would solve a lot have health problems in the country because less people would be getting sick so less people in hospitals so they could save money there too because they would not have to spend as much money there trying to cure people from things like lung disease and cancer that they caused to themselves anyway.

But I think motorists and workers should not be shafted. Maybe just the rich one,s with there big Range Rovers, Audi A6s, A7s and the like they could afford to pay more.

In short, other people should have taxes raised, but increases should not affect you.

Letree · 07-10-2015 12:26am

rockatansky wrote: »

I'd have no issue with Fine Gael being back in Government after the next GE.

Labour as a party can die for all I care. Would like nothing better than to see their vote collapse similar to the Greens and PDs.

My biggest concern is the rise of Fianna Fáil again. People bang on about Sinn Feins Economic Policies being dangerous for the country, and maybe they are. But to see the very people who brought the country to near Financial apocalypse getting under 20% in recent opinion polls, with many of the old guard still in place, is incomprehensible to me.

I'm not a fianna failer but have a look at some of the footage of the Dail back before 2007 and you will see all the other parties calling for even more boomier policies and more spending.

Clandestine · 07-10-2015 12:28am

Saw Renua talking about a flat tax, and how it'd be more fair... how about scrapping income tax? Surely that'd be the most fair way of doing things, considering it's extortion through and through (that'll never happen though...)

davmol · 07-10-2015 11:47am

Yes- I am a begrudger.

What really gets my back up is that those on social welfare get a Bonus.Why cant all the taxpayers who have actually got up every day ,gone to work rain hail or shine,get a bonus.

So,basically ,sit on your hole and we will award you.

Grant it,there are valid reason or those who are genuinely on the dole but just walk thru town and you will see all types of 'people' who have no intention on working.We also have ALOT of foreigners who will leech the system dry and also have no intention working.

Ireland is slowly becoming a welfare state and people are being discouraged from working.We should follow Cameron and the UK with encouraging people to work by reducing welfare payments and increasing tax credits for workers.

darkpagandeath · 07-10-2015 11:52am

davmol wrote: »

Yes- I am a begrudger.

What really gets my back up is that those on social welfare get a Bonus.Why cant all the taxpayers who have actually got up every day ,gone to work rain hail or shine,get a bonus.

So,basically ,sit on your hole and we will award you.

Grant it,there are valid reason or those who are genuinely on the dole but just walk thru town and you will see all types of 'people' who have no intention on working.We also have ALOT of foreigners who will leech the system dry and also have no intention working.

Ireland is slowly becoming a welfare state and people are being discouraged from working.We should follow Cameron and the UK with encouraging people to work by reducing welfare payments and increasing tax credits for workers.

I would worry a lot more about what they get up to them people rather than worrying about a few of them on the dole.

Ireland is not becoming a welfare state in the UK you get more money though indirect means Ireland they give you the money and you have to budget it. If it's so great give your job to someone unemployed and live off their €188 pw.

RobertKK · 07-10-2015 12:16pm

I think FG/Lab did a good job in following the FF/troika plan with a few changes combined with Greek concessions.

I would like capital gains tax reduced. It is one of the highest around. Some countries have abolished it altogether.

davmol · 07-10-2015 12:17pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I would worry a lot more about what they get up to them people rather than worrying about a few of them on the dole.

Ireland is not becoming a welfare state in the UK you get more money though indirect means Ireland they give you the money and you have to budget it. If it's so great give your job to someone unemployed and live off their €188 pw.

188 can go a long way when you have rent supplement,back to school clothing and footwear allowance and medical card.

And to top it off you get a little bonus for nothing.

There are Many jobs out there and people just consider themselves too good for them so remain jobless by choice.
Just go on any employment sites and you will see the huge number of vacancies.
People should get the dole for a specified time and then be forced to take a job rather than sponge off the taxpayer.

davmol · 07-10-2015 12:20pm

RobertKK wrote: »

I think FG/Lab did a good job in following the FF/troika plan with a few changes combined with Greek concessions.

I would like capital gains tax reduced. It is one of the highest around. Some countries have abolished it altogether.

+1.

Inheritance tax at 30% is outrageous and disgusting.The greed at taking that amount from a parent or other provider who has worked hard to provide a helping hand to a child or other benefactor.

darkpagandeath · 07-10-2015 12:24pm

davmol wrote: »

188 can go a long way when you have rent supplement,back to school clothing and footwear allowance and medical card.

And to top it off you get a little bonus for nothing.

There are Many jobs out there and people just consider themselves too good for them so remain jobless by choice.
Just go on any employment sites and you will see the huge number of vacancies.
People should get the dole for a specified time and then be forced to take a job rather than sponge off the taxpayer.

And if you are single or have no kids ? This is the trap many Anti dole people fall into assuming everyone get everything. All based on anecdotal evidence. Everything is means tested. Many jobs you say who's not taking them ? You mean the ones advertised so a company can avail of free schemes as they have to be looking for employees to avail of them.

awec · 07-10-2015 12:38pm

On a personal level I am hoping that this talk of cutting capital gains tax becomes reality. 33% is ridiculous.

davmol · 07-10-2015 1:06pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

And if you are single or have no kids ? This is the trap many Anti dole people fall into assuming everyone get everything. All based on anecdotal evidence. Everything is means tested. Many jobs you say who's not taking them ? You mean the ones advertised so a company can avail of free schemes as they have to be looking for employees to avail of them.

You can still get rental supplement if you are single and have no kids.

Obviously people on the dole are not taking these jobs as it shows how long the jobs are available and some are available many months.

By a quick glance on many job vacancy sites you can see office jobs,Bar work,restaurant work,Construction,electrical etc etc.

For many jobs experience is not required.

Geuze · 07-10-2015 1:09pm

Clandestine wrote: »

Saw Renua talking about a flat tax, and how it'd be more fair... how about scrapping income tax? Surely that'd be the most fair way of doing things, considering it's extortion through and through (that'll never happen though...)

There would be the small problem of funding public services and the welfare state.............

Geuze · 07-10-2015 1:11pm

davmol wrote: »

Ireland is slowly becoming a welfare state and people are being discouraged from working.We should follow Cameron and the UK with encouraging people to work by reducing welfare payments and increasing tax credits for workers.

Ireland *is* a welfare state.

Half the population are recipients or beneficiaries of weekly welfare.

Geuze · 07-10-2015 1:13pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Ireland is not becoming a welfare state in the UK you get more money though indirect means Ireland they give you the money and you have to budget it. If it's so great give your job to someone unemployed and live off their €188 pw.

As half the population are recipients/beneficiaries of welfare (excl. CB), then I would argue that we have a massive welfare state.

darkpagandeath · 07-10-2015 1:14pm

Geuze wrote: »

As half the population are recipients/beneficiaries of welfare (excl. CB), then I would argue that we have a massive welfare state.

That's a government choice it should be means tested like everything else. One item cannot be used to portray something that is clearly not true.

darkpagandeath · 07-10-2015 1:16pm

Geuze wrote: »

Ireland *is* a welfare state.

Half the population are recipients or beneficiaries of weekly welfare.

No they are not. Break down the figures JSA is not the highest percentage pension is for example. And a pension is not a welfare state.

Geuze · 07-10-2015 1:27pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

No they are not. Break down the figures JSA is not the highest percentage pension is for example. And a pension is not a welfare state.

On multiple other threads it has been well documented that half the pop are in receipts/beneficiaries of weekly SW.

Yes, of course, the State Pension is included.

See here:

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Annual-SWS-Statistical-Information-Report-2014.aspx

Recipients of Weekly Social Welfare Payments

There were 1,440,876 people were in receipt of a weekly Social Welfare Payment
at the end of 2014.

As these payments included increases in respect of 194,190
Qualified Adults and 473,013 children, along with Family Income Supplement
payments made in respect of 111,583 children, there were over 2,219,600
beneficiaries in all.

Geuze · 07-10-2015 1:28pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

That's a government choice it should be means tested like everything else. One item cannot be used to portray something that is clearly not true.

Many of the half pop on welfare are on means-tested payments.

09-10-2015 9:53pm

Why are they hiking up the tax on cigarettes AGAIN?

Avatar MIA · 09-10-2015 10:13pm

222233 wrote: »

Why are they hiking up the tax on cigarettes AGAIN?

They are bad for you... very bad. And although the customs on cigarettes are considered high by some they do not pay for the health costs they cause.

Galwayguy35 · 10-10-2015 8:30pm

222233 wrote: »

Why are they hiking up the tax on cigarettes AGAIN?

Better than hiking up diesel, smoking is a lifestyle choice.

pablo128 · 10-10-2015 8:39pm

Avatar MIA wrote: »

They are bad for you... very bad. And although the customs on cigarettes are considered high by some they do not pay for the health costs they cause.

AS of 2013, the tax on cigarettes covered the associated medical costs. And that was literally from a 10 second google. https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCIQFjAAahUKEwjG7KuH1LjIAhWon3IKHcE8DUk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.ie%2Fregionals%2Fwicklowpeople%2Flifestyle%2Fgovernment-spends-2bn-tax-revenue-from-cigarettes-on-smokingrelated-illnesses-29083408.html&usg=AFQjCNFbD92oTL-CMqNdKHL0qSjrHqxFyg&bvm=bv.104819420,d.bGQ

The One Doctor · 10-10-2015 8:39pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Better than hiking up diesel, smoking is a lifestyle choice.

That doesn't make sense. No-one has a choice about breathing in pollution from diesel engines. Not a lifestyle choice but dangerous nonetheless. Diesel powered cars should be discouraged by higher duties and motor taxes.

Streetwalker · 10-10-2015 8:42pm

I'd like to see welfare rates increased by 20% across the board just to piss off anti dole boards users.

darkpagandeath · 10-10-2015 8:45pm

What about a fat tax they cost the health system more than cigarettes.

Avatar MIA · 10-10-2015 9:18pm

pablo128 wrote: »

AS of 2013, the tax on cigarettes covered the associated medical costs. And that was literally from a 10 second google. https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCIQFjAAahUKEwjG7KuH1LjIAhWon3IKHcE8DUk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.ie%2Fregionals%2Fwicklowpeople%2Flifestyle%2Fgovernment-spends-2bn-tax-revenue-from-cigarettes-on-smokingrelated-illnesses-29083408.html&usg=AFQjCNFbD92oTL-CMqNdKHL0qSjrHqxFyg&bvm=bv.104819420,d.bGQ

You might want to think just a little bit further.

For example, how about all the days missed from work because of people's ill health, what's the cost of that? And that just took 10 seconds of extra thinking.

The cost of ill health from smoking just isn't what the government pay for treating smoking related illnesses.

However, the article you reference backs up the general gist, the money collected in smoking taxes goes back into paying the costs of smoking.

Thanks for the 10 seconds of your time.

Qualitymark · 10-10-2015 9:27pm

I'll vote for anyone who'll:

Take a normal salary, package and pension, so they're living the same life as those they represent
Bring sanity and decent equality to the salaries and pensions of the public service
Fix the health service, in fact, institute a proper National Health service
Keep house prices from ballooning, so that wages don't have to rise to follow them, with bad effects on the economy
Refuse to have 'special advisers' and instead use the expertise of the civil service, as was the norm until recent madness
Control rent so that people can pay their rent and still have enough to live well and save
Set up a fair and equitable system that will represent the rights of both landlords and tenants
Build excellent social housing, and rent it at a fair rate, and mix it with other housing so that it doesn't become a ghetto or a tribal group
Help people back to work, rather than punishing them for not being able to find work
Build a system of fair-priced State creches that are genuinely on the Scandinavian model - where children get kind and intelligent care - so that parents can work without worry or beggary
Get rid of national embarrassments like the Dáil bars and garda-chauffeur-driven cars
Fix the transport system so that we have clean, efficient, regular, punctual and reasonably priced public transport, a superb network of wide cycle paths separated from cars, and fair-priced, preferably offstreet parking (with no parking fees for patients, staff or visitors in hospitals or at park-and-ride facilities)
Return community gardaí to communities

Lucifer MorningStar · 10-10-2015 9:29pm

Streetwalker wrote: »

I'd like to see welfare rates increased by 20% across the board just to piss off anti dole boards users.

Will they be increasing welfare ?

pablo128 · 10-10-2015 9:33pm

Avatar MIA wrote: »

You might want to think just a little bit further.

For example, how about all the days missed from work because of people's ill health, what's the cost of that? And that just took 10 seconds of extra thinking.

The cost of ill health from smoking just isn't what the government pay for treating smoking related illnesses.

However, the article you reference backs up the general gist, the money collected in smoking taxes goes back into paying the costs of smoking.

Thanks for the 10 seconds of your time.

You were going along grand till the smarmy bit at the end.

Give yourself a pat on the back there.

Avatar MIA · 10-10-2015 9:35pm

pablo128 wrote: »

You were going along grand till the smarmy bit at the end.

Give yourself a pat on the back there.

And yet I was only quoting you.

Qualitymark · 10-10-2015 9:43pm

With smoking, the cost resounds into the next generation. Many Irish people are asthmatic or bronchitic or worse as a result of growing up in a family of smokers - of course, in the old days people didn't know they were harming their children, but they do now!

I'm old enough to remember the week the British Smokers' Study was published, in 1951:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Doctors_Study

I'd been to the doctor's the week before, and as usual you had to cut your way through the haze of smoke in his office to his desk with its butt-piled ashtray.

The week after the study came out, the smoke was gone, the ashtray was gone, the butts were gone. Overnight, virtually every doctor in Britain and Ireland became a non-smoker. The evidence was just too horrifyingly clear.

Life expectancy in Ireland has increased by a stunning 15 years since 1950, principally due to reductions in smoking.

mikeym · 10-10-2015 9:53pm

For anyone that thinks that raising the tax on Diesel is a good idea heres some food for thought.

How does the likes of Tesco,Aldi, Lidl get their produce?

They get it delivered by a Truck that runs on Diesel and if you increase the tax on Diesel you will pay more for your loaf of Bread and Litre of Milk.

Everybody pays more in the end.

Mr. teddywinkles · 10-10-2015 9:56pm

Geuze wrote: »

On multiple other threads it has been well documented that half the pop are in receipts/beneficiaries of weekly SW.

Yes, of course, the State Pension is included.

See here:

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Annual-SWS-Statistical-Information-Report-2014.aspx

Recipients of Weekly Social Welfare Payments

There were 1,440,876 people were in receipt of a weekly Social Welfare Payment
at the end of 2014.

As these payments included increases in respect of 194,190
Qualified Adults and 473,013 children, along with Family Income Supplement
payments made in respect of 111,583 children, there were over 2,219,600
beneficiaries in all.

Does this not prove something. Technology has changed the world. Yes? It's not Iike you just go down to the local factory of yester year and say give me a job. The world has changed. And I can guarantee you 100%. Welfare states will become the norm. Either that the modern world will be a bleak place. People then turn round and say. You need people to maintain this tech but I reckon its less than you might think.

Qualitymark · 10-10-2015 9:58pm

Are all those in receipt of child benefit counted in those figures?

Galwayguy35 · 11-10-2015 8:28am

The One Doctor wrote: »

That doesn't make sense. No-one has a choice about breathing in pollution from diesel engines. Not a lifestyle choice but dangerous nonetheless. Diesel powered cars should be discouraged by higher duties and motor taxes.

Says the fella living in Dublin which has a good public transport system, i have to travel 40 miles to work 6 days a week and need a diesel car because petrol would rob me blind.

Qualitymark · 11-10-2015 8:34am

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Says the fella living in Dublin which has a good public transport system, i have to travel 40 miles to work 6 days a week and need a diesel car because petrol would rob me blind.

Which is insane in itself. I was reading a 1920s book on labour management recently and the writer (an expert who worked in industry and for the US government) wrote that workers should live within three miles of the workplace, to be able to walk easily to work. Our current system isn't normal - driving from before dawn and arriving home after dark, with hours of commuting.

Galwayguy35 · 11-10-2015 8:40am

Qualitymark wrote: »

Which is insane in itself. I was reading a 1920s book on labour management recently and the writer (an expert who worked in industry and for the US government) wrote that workers should live within three miles of the workplace, to be able to walk easily to work. Our current system isn't normal - driving from before dawn and arriving home after dark, with hours of commuting.

In an ideal world that would be great but the reality is different, people have to travel to the cities because that's where the work is, all my neighbours have diesel cars because they need them.

Should people be punished for what they use to drive to work as the poster i was quoting seemed to be suggesting?

Qualitymark · 11-10-2015 8:46am

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

In an ideal world that would be great but the reality is different, people have to travel to the cities because that's where the work is, all my neighbours have diesel cars because they need them.

Should people be punished for what they use to drive to work as the poster i was quoting seemed to be suggesting?

Of course not. But we need to change the model so that work and home aren't far apart. It's bad for people.

And it's scarily bad for the environment for a lot of cars dragging along a single person each, and using up our precious and limited supply of fossil fuel, should be driving the equivalent of a day's cycle ride twice a day to get to work.

At the very least we need proper public transport, and car pooling.

Galwayguy35 · 11-10-2015 8:56am

Qualitymark wrote: »

Of course not. But we need to change the model so that work and home aren't far apart. It's bad for people.

And it's scarily bad for the environment for a lot of cars dragging along a single person each, and using up our precious and limited supply of fossil fuel, should be driving the equivalent of a day's cycle ride twice a day to get to work.

At the very least we need proper public transport, and car pooling.

Agreed a public transport system is needed, take for instance Galway city which is compared to cities in other countries a large town but the traffic is terrible there because most people bring the car because they have no other way of getting to work.

TPD · 11-10-2015 9:02am

Qualitymark wrote: »

I'll vote for anyone who'll:

So you're abstaining then?

For Forks Sake · 11-10-2015 10:15am

Streetwalker wrote: »

I'd like to see welfare rates increased by 20% across the board just to piss off anti dole boards users.

I assume you'd have no issue with your personal taxation rates being increased by a commensurate amount to fund this then? Cause and effect my friend.....

Subcomandante Marcos · 11-10-2015 10:22am

In an ideal world:

Tax raises across the board to properly fund public services. Proper funding for schools, hospitals, the health service in general, childcare, roads, mass transit, infrastructure, etc. I'd much rather pay German or Noridc levels of tax in return for German or Nordic levels of public service instead of the current bull**** system of mid-tier taxation for ****e services.

People who think we have high taxation here are extremely ignorant to reality, we are about the middle of the tax scale on a European level, we just get dick all return for it.

Budget 2016

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