Amateur plumbing tips

TheChizler · 29-09-2013 7:34pm #1

Hi all, I hate to start a new thread over what is a simple plumbing issue, but searching the forum and Google didn't help. I'm trying to replace the smashed taps on a corner hand basin, and I'm looking for tips on how to access the very limited space.

I have no idea how the basin was installed day one, I can't even get a wrench around the fittings. There are no service valves therefore I have to shut off the supply for the whole circuit (entire house!), so I want to be fairly confident I'll be able to rip the old ones off and install the new ones with PTFE quickly with no messing around. (We have a plumber coming in a few weeks for something else so I'll get him to bring the installation up to scratch, this is just a stopgap).

As said, monkey wrench can't even reach the fittings, mini wrench can't turn due to space once I get it around them, and the same with vice grips and spanners. Is there such a thing as a 'half socket' that I could fit around the fitting and pipe and fit a socket extension onto to get the leverage where there's more space?

I really appreciate any and all replies!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48253105/Pic%20Hosting/corner_hand_basin.jpg

shane0007 · 29-09-2013 7:47pm

Use a tap spanner.

LIFFY FISHING · 29-09-2013 7:47pm

The back nuts on the taps are put on with a crows foot spanner, you can pick them up handy in a plumbers merchants.

TheChizler · 29-09-2013 7:50pm

shane0007 wrote: »

Use a tap spanner.

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

The back nuts on the taps are put on with a crows foot spanner, you can pick them up handy in a plumbers merchants.

That's exactly the type of thing I was hoping existed! Just didn't know what to call it. Thank you!

Dtp1979 · 29-09-2013 8:07pm

TheChizler wrote: »

That's exactly the type of thing I was hoping existed! Just didn't know what to call it. Thank you!

Also don't put PTFE tape on the threads of the tap when your screwing the nut back up. Just put the tape on the ring that's on the pipe

gifted · 29-09-2013 8:30pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Also don't put PTFE tape on the threads of the tap when your screwing the nut back up. Just put the tape on the ring that's on the pipe

Make sure that the taps your putting back in will accept a nut and ring, that looks like a 312 on the existing taps. Some taps need a 312.

or a swivel straight

Dtp1979 · 29-09-2013 8:32pm

gifted wrote: »

Make sure that the taps your putting back in will accept a nut and ring, that looks like a 312 on the existing taps. Some taps need a 312.

Your dead right gifted. It is a 312. I didn't see that picture till now. God nothing I hate more than going to change a tap and seeing 312's on it

Robbie.G · 29-09-2013 8:34pm

gifted wrote: »

Make sure that the taps your putting back in will accept a nut and ring, that looks like a 312 on the existing taps. Some taps need a 312.

Well spotted also looks as if the 312 are on with flax so good luck in opening that with a crowsfoot in that tight space. I think it's time for the grinder.
It would probly be easier to remove basin and change taps and 312s on the floor

gifted · 29-09-2013 8:35pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Your dead right gifted. It is a 312. I didn't see that picture till now. God nothing I hate more than going to change a tap and seeing 312's on it

I hate fitting taps and then going to pipe them and realising that they need a 312...jesus christ why didn't I put them on when I had the sink in me laps

Avns1s · 29-09-2013 8:41pm

How "smashed" are the taps? Perhaps you could get replacement cartridges for them?

anthonyos · 29-09-2013 8:50pm

how do you lads go about replacing bath tap and sink taps with 312s on them

gifted · 29-09-2013 8:51pm

anthonyos wrote: »

how do you lads go about replacing bath tap and sink taps with 312s on them

Get the apprentice to do it while I piss off for a coffee

Robbie.G · 29-09-2013 8:52pm

anthonyos wrote: »

how do you lads go about replacing bath tap and sink taps with 312s on them

With the utmost difficulty

Dtp1979 · 29-09-2013 8:54pm

Robbie.G wrote: »

With the utmost difficulty

And generally alot of cursing. Jesus one time it must have took me 2 hours. I nearly cried.

anthonyos · 29-09-2013 8:56pm

ha ha I know how you lads feel it used to take me at least 30 min to do it heating 312s with the touch the usual crap now it takes me 30 seconds

gifted · 29-09-2013 8:57pm

anthonyos wrote: »

ha ha I know how you lads feel it used to take me at least 30 min to do it heating 312s with the touch the usual crap now it takes me 30 seconds

How?...a grinder?

Dtp1979 · 29-09-2013 9:00pm

gifted wrote: »

How?...a grinder?

A sledge hammer??

gifted · 29-09-2013 9:01pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

A sledge hammer??

anthonyos · 29-09-2013 9:02pm

no neither I replaced a set of basin taps few weeks ago where 3 plumbers had failed I had them of by the time the man in the house to put the kettle on

gifted · 29-09-2013 9:03pm

anthonyos wrote: »

no neither I replaced a set of basin taps few weeks ago where 3 plumbers had failed I had them of by the time the man in the house to put the kettle on[/QUO

Ok...tell me man tell me NOW:P

anthonyos · 29-09-2013 9:10pm

oxy touch

gifted · 29-09-2013 9:12pm

anthonyos wrote: »

oxy touch

You mean oxy/ace torch?...

Dtp1979 · 29-09-2013 9:13pm

anthonyos wrote: »

oxy touch

??

anthonyos · 29-09-2013 9:14pm

only joking changing taps will never be the same when I reveal it

Dtp1979 · 29-09-2013 9:21pm

anthonyos wrote: »

only joking changing taps will never be the same when I reveal it

That's cause your not gonna reveal it are you

anthonyos · 29-09-2013 9:25pm

I don't want to but I have been helped on this forum many times so I have to repay but it will kill me to tell it so

jimf · 29-09-2013 9:27pm

anthonyos wrote: »

I don't want to but I have been helped on this forum many times so I have to repay but it will kill me to tell it so

you also write thrillers in your spare time then

:D

anthonyos · 29-09-2013 9:29pm

life will never be the same it changed my life the worst bath taps you can imagine take me 15 min to do:)

jimf · 29-09-2013 9:31pm

anthonyos wrote: »

life will never be the same it changed my life the worst bath taps you can imagine take me 15 min to do:)

lets all tune in this time tomorrow night for episode 2

:P:D:(

anthonyos · 29-09-2013 9:38pm

ok here it is remove the insert and use a hole saw to drill out the inside and the taps will just come free you will be left with the two threaded bits under the bath I usually use flexis to reconnect the new ones:eek:

Dtp1979 · 29-09-2013 9:39pm

anthonyos wrote: »

ok here it is remove the insert and use a hole saw to drill out the inside and the taps will just come free you will be left with the two threaded bits under the bath I usually use flexis to reconnect the new ones:eek:

Interesting. You do the same for basins ?

Robbie.G · 29-09-2013 9:41pm

anthonyos wrote: »

ok here it is remove the insert and use a hole saw to drill out the inside and the taps will just come free you will be left with the two threaded bits under the bath I usually use flexis to reconnect the new ones:eek:

Good one

anthonyos · 29-09-2013 9:45pm

any that might look like hassel it takes seconds to cut threw the brass and the taps a free ...no more rooting under baths lads trust me

TheChizler · 30-09-2013 1:41am

gifted wrote: »

Make sure that the taps your putting back in will accept a nut and ring, that looks like a 312 on the existing taps. Some taps need a 312.

or a swivel straight

You had me up to nut and ring!

Had a Google for "312" and "plumbing"

and a close up pic so yes well spotted thank you! Pic of new taps is below as well, I'm guessing the bevel on the inner edge of the fitting is for the ring? I'll take a trip down to IITC in the morning so, something tells me one shouldn't reuse compression rings...

Robbie.G wrote: »

Well spotted also looks as if the 312 are on with flax so good luck in opening that with a crowsfoot in that tight space. I think it's time for the grinder.
It would probly be easier to remove basin and change taps and 312s on the floor

This doesn't inspire confidence... I'll go pick up a claw foot spanner anyway and have a lash at it. It seems I can't fully turn off the hot supply at the tank either, always a small stream even after a few hours, I can see this being a fun, rewarding activity! Something heavier than what smashed the taps might "accidently" fall and justify an emergency call-out methinks!

Avns1s wrote: »

How "smashed" are the taps? Perhaps you could get replacement cartridges for them?

Handles are gone, but the bodies are grotty and paint flaking so I thought I'd replace them with solid lever taps, levers as the twist handles weren't great in the confined space.

Thanks for the replies guys! I'm learning a lot!

312 Close Up

New Taps

rightjob! · 30-09-2013 8:54am

i wouldnt even bother trying to take them off in position,take the basin off the wall job.

TopTec · 30-09-2013 9:10am

Chizler. Put on isolating valves when you refit. You don't have to turn of the whole system when you work on the basin in the future.

TT

TheChizler · 30-09-2013 4:01pm

rightjob! wrote: »

i wouldnt even bother trying to take them off in position,take the basin off the wall job.

Bought the tools now so I'll give it a try! I'm nothing if I'm persistent! I only have about a foot of curved copper pipe to work with, the end disappears into the cavity behind a 350 L solar tank, which either I would have to remove to access the pipework or pull down a shower wall, so I'd rather not risk the integrity of the pipework by moving the sink! If it's a no go I'll ask the professionals to do it when tackling another job in the coming weeks.

TopTec wrote: »

Chizler. Put on isolating valves when you refit. You don't have to turn of the whole system when you work on the basin in the future.

TT

The current setup is there since 1994 without being touched, hopefully this will be the end of it for the foreseeable future! The job the plumber is doing in a few weeks will possibly involve pulling out the tank so I'll get them to install pipes with sufficient play for isolation valves then, current pipework goes through a 90 degree bend starting at the tiles continuing pretty much right up to the 312s, I'd be afraid of kinking the pipe, or entering the curve if I cut it, if I insert valves. It was obviously a DIY job!

ThisRegard · 10-10-2013 12:10pm

Excuse my ignorance and lay man terminology, but what exactly is a 312 and why is it more difficult to change than a 'modern' set of taps ?

Dtp1979 · 10-10-2013 3:51pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance and lay man terminology, but what exactly is a 312 and why is it more difficult to change than a 'modern' set of taps ?

Not just modern taps. A 312 is a fitting that screws onto a tap so the nut and ring from the pipe can screw onto it. Most taps( old and new ) already accommodate for the nut and ring from the pipe. 312's are very awkward to fit when the basin is already in place, and even harder to take off

yoloc · 13-10-2013 11:09am

Whats a 312

jeepers101 · 13-10-2013 11:25am

https://www.google.ie/search?q=plumbing+312&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=jXRaUvmJL6-h7AaK34HYCg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=656#q=compression+312&tbm=isch&facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=k35AW2INW53rtM%3A%3BydyC6RmR8fmiXM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fuel.ie%252Fmodules%252Fshop%252Fimg%252F312a-irish-compression-fittings%252F312A.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fuel.ie%252Fmodules%252Fshop%252Fproducts%252F312a-irish-compression-fittings%252F%3B200%3B257

K.Flyer · 14-10-2013 2:44am

This is a 312
Available in various sizes and should be fitted using ptfe tape or flax with pipe jointing compound.

gifted · 14-10-2013 6:24am

K.Flyer wrote: »

This is a 312
Available in various sizes and should be fitted using ptfe tape or flax with pipe jointing compound.

Here's a little tip, the 1/2" fibre washer that comes with a swivel elbow will fit into the 312, handy in tight places where it's hard to put on ptfe or flax. Also works with 3/4" 312's.

gctest50 · 14-10-2013 6:34am

Dtp1979 wrote: »

............312's are very awkward to fit when the basin is already in place, and even harder to take off

If the taps are for the bin, cut a slot up the side of the 312 with reciprocating/sabre saw ?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/SIP-07594-PROFESSIONAL-AIR-BODY/dp/6095018587/ref=sr_1_7/280-0626299-7474336?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1381728656&sr=1-7

K.Flyer · 14-10-2013 8:29am

gifted wrote: »

Here's a little tip, the 1/2" fibre washer that comes with a swivel elbow will fit into the 312, handy in tight places where it's hard to put on ptfe or flax. Also works with 3/4" 312's.

That depends on the quality of the 312. I have seen some with barely any stop point (ledge) where you can put the washer and I would be a bit concerned about it chewing into the fibre washer.
I have used a rubber washer the odd time as a back up, but I prefer not to rely on either as the only way of sealing a 312.

Amateur plumbing tips

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