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Year Round provision - Further Ed.

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  • 23-04-2014 2:17pm
    #1
    newholland
    Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭


    What is the opinion on year round provision at PLC level as announced by minister Quinn at the tui conference today?


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    #2
    teacherhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 666 ✭✭✭teacherhead


    newholland wrote: »
    What is the opinion on year round provision at PLC level as announced by minister Quinn at the tui conference today?

    Suits the privatisation agenda.


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    #3
    newfrontier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭newfrontier


    Quinn Strikes again... but will they just change the existing teaching contracts with legislation and hope for the best or will they negotiate with the new combined union?


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    #4
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,405 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Will be very interesting. Very bad the way rq announced it, shows his nature


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    #5
    ethical
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭ethical


    Poor old red Ruairí,he so badly wants to be remembered!!!!..he need not worry,he has got the ire of so many teachers up.....that he will be canonised soon!!!!!!!.and remembered forever!


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    #6
    newholland
    Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭newholland


    ethical wrote: »
    Poor old red Ruairí,he so badly wants to be remembered!!!!..he need not worry,he has got the ire of so many teachers up.....that he will be canonised soon!!!!!!!.and remembered forever!


    It will be interesting how non etb schools offering plc courses will continue as opposed to etb schools?


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    #7
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,124 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    newholland wrote: »
    It will be interesting how non etb schools offering plc courses will continue as opposed to etb schools?

    Yet another 'not fully thought through in the real world' idea? Extraordinary.
    There are also ETB schools where staff are split hours-wise between PLC and mainstream classes. It will be all fun and games.

    Seriously, is there anyone inside the Department that has a clue what actually goes on in schools?


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    #8
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    newholland wrote: »
    It will be interesting how non etb schools offering plc courses will continue as opposed to etb schools?

    Why? I don't see any different. I teach in an ETB school, half my hours are PLC and the other half are mainstream second level. It's the same in many ETBs across the country.


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    #9
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    spurious wrote: »
    Yet another 'not fully thought through in the real world' idea? Extraordinary.
    There are also ETB schools where staff are split hours-wise between PLC and mainstream classes. It will be all fun and games.

    Seriously, is there anyone inside the Department that has a clue what actually goes on in schools?


    Or is Ruairi just throwing out this ridiculous idea to deflect away from the new Junior Cert?


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    #10
    newfrontier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭newfrontier


    Just wondering after the comment by RQ made at TUI conference regarding 12 month teaching terms.

    How many teachers will this impact if it goes ahead?
    Will it be implemented in 2015?
    Will the union roll over again?

    I think it might go ahead in 2015 but a very strong message needs to be sent to RQ ASAP !!!! What is the best course of action?

    Will teachers strike over this issue?


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    #11
    newfrontier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭newfrontier


    Good to see!

    http://www.tui.ie/news-events/motion-to-protect-agreed-academic-calendar-passed-today.5525.html


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    #12
    implausible
    Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    I wonder is this going to affect mainstream schools who offer FETAC Level 5 PLCs. We have a large PLC intake in our school and I cannot see how this could possibly operate with teachers who teach both mainstream and PLC.

    The problem is as I see it, the multiplicity of provision. The PLC course I coordinate is offered in Adult Ed, part-time in a private college and was/is offered through FÁS too and this all in a big town. I wonder is this a move to force all PLCs into one model of provision i.e. stand-alone Further Ed and Training centres.

    Another issue is FETAC. All of the modules have been updated over the past 2 years, without an increase in hours. How are they going to stretch a FETAC module over 12 months.

    Badly thought through - though I don't know why I'm surprised.


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    #13
    teacherhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 666 ✭✭✭teacherhead


    implausible wrote: »
    I wonder is this going to affect mainstream schools who offer FETAC Level 5 PLCs. We have a large PLC intake in our school and I cannot see how this could possibly operate with teachers who teach both mainstream and PLC.

    The problem is as I see it, the multiplicity of provision. The PLC course I coordinate is offered in Adult Ed, part-time in a private college and was/is offered through FÁS too and this all in a big town. I wonder is this a move to force all PLCs into one model of provision i.e. stand-alone Further Ed and Training centres.

    Another issue is FETAC. All of the modules have been updated over the past 2 years, without an increase in hours. How are they going to stretch a FETAC module over 12 months.

    Badly thought through - though I don't know why I'm surprised.

    Afaik the plan is to separate second level from further ed. The introduction of the tutor grade is another retrograde step.


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    #14
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,124 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Threads merged.


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    #15
    trihead
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭trihead


    Although this was a bit of shock to hear on wednesday... it was rumoured that it would happen eventually. If it does go ahead it will be another sad day for education in ireland. The sector does need some change and formal structures but changing 1/2 yr educational courses into short training courses just so it massages the live register numbers is nuts!!

    Another thing is... this isn't just the FE teacher's problem... it will effect mainstream schools too - Plenty of FE teachers have the h dip and mainstream subjects so many we go back to secondary level (even if they don't fancy the discipline issues etc that they will obvious have to adapt to) - these permanent FE teachers will displace many contract / pt teachers from secondary schools so its a issue for all teachers in the post secondary sector.

    :rolleyes:


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    #16
    implausible
    Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    trihead wrote: »
    Although this was a bit of shock to hear on wednesday... it was rumoured that it would happen eventually. If it does go ahead it will be another sad day for education in ireland. The sector does need some change and formal structures but changing 1/2 yr educational courses into short training courses just so it massages the live register numbers is nuts!!

    Another thing is... this isn't just the FE teacher's problem... it will effect mainstream schools too - Plenty of FE teachers have the h dip and mainstream subjects so many we go back to secondary level (even if they don't fancy the discipline issues etc that they will obvious have to adapt to) - these permanent FE teachers will displace many contract / pt teachers from secondary schools so its a issue for all teachers in the post secondary sector.

    :rolleyes:

    But where is it coming from? Has he a report he's reading off? Am very interested in the thinking behind this - is it to give ALL Further Ed to SOLAS and/or private operators and get it out of ETB schools and colleges?

    What is the line between education and training? I deliver a FETAC Level 5 course and as it is post Leaving Cert, I consider it part of the national framework and therefore, further education, which should be delivered by qualified teachers. I often have students who are mature and who have been out of education for years, but they have not chosen to do a module or two or a part-time or evening course, they have chosen to go back into full-time education. I see this as different to training or upskilling.

    I have already complained about the multiplicity of provision, but I don't see how the DES can throw all post-Leaving cert courses into one bucket and say "they have to be taught for a full year." Either FETAC Level 5 is further education and is delivered as such, or it's training.

    I very much doubt that RQ has thought this through. I would not be surprised if he is completely unaware that these courses are delivered in mainstream secondary schools.


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    #17
    ustazjoseph
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭ustazjoseph


    My impression is that they Dept are taking a hands off approach to FE. Solas can figure it out themselves. ETBS with new management and local ex FAS staff will be interested in some all yr provision. Over time there will be a nw sector with new " work any time contracts " old ," refusing to accept change types " will be tolerated or hassled till they retire. Look to HRH Maggie thatcher and her "reform " of FE. " "market sensitive" "real world" rsponsive to local needs etc

    blah blah


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