First car - few questions

HeadPig · 21-04-2014 8:43pm #1

Budget: 2-5k
Fuel: am open to petrol or diesel if someone can give me good enough reason to preference one. Will drive regularly but not a huge amount.
As regards saloon, hatchback, again I am open to either, but generally find myself looking at hatchbacks as I now insurance will be cheaper (22 year old male) and the saloons for the same price tend to be a bit older. Originally I wanted something 08 or newer in the cheaper tax band but these have generally been above my budget.
Will most likely buy from a dealer.

Have been looking around and the cars I am mostly coming across are VW polos from around 2004, ford focus, renault clio, yaris etc. Then there are a few older cars like volkswagen jetta etc. Also seeing a lot of kias which I know nothing about.

So I suppose my question is any recommendations in particular and is there any reason I should avoid/prioritise cars from the above list?

Huawei Gallagher · 21-04-2014 10:11pm

Hi Pig,

Your first car should be a small engined petrol car. Keep the tax and insurance costs down. Later on when you have built up no claims bonus, and have cheaper insurance coz you are over 25 or similar, then you can go bigger or diesel. Keep you money for important things i.e. beer, socialising.
I had a BMW at your age, was spending all my money on it while everyone else was able to party! Stupidest thing I ever did.

I have an 04 focus diesel, I am reasonably happy with it but it has had a few issues in the past few years (Speedo+clocks circuitboard corroding (cost hundreds), gearbox sensor, cam position sensor ,gas pedal)
I did these myself so did not cost much. You should realise that you will be hit with these bills when you drive a 10 year old car, so expect something to break and cost you a couple of hundred every once in a while, and budget for it.

Other makes you mentioned sound fine, but i dont like Kias and would not buy one. I had a friend that tried to trade one in, dealers really didnt want it, offered very little as it was a Kia.

If you can, try to get a Japanese car, they have a good name and a 10 year old one should be more reliable than a 10 year old focus etc. Knowing what I know now after having had many cars, I would try to find a Yaris with Genuine low mileage.

Be very wary, there are a lot of clocked cars out there. I know where you can get your car clocked for 70 euro, takes 15 minutes! Look carefully at the pedals, gear knob, carpets for wear. If the car only has 30 K these should not have worn much. I once parked my Van with 120k beside the same make at a dealer, his car had 50k on it, but the pedal rubbers were twice as worn as mine! Clocked!

I would also try to buy privately to keep the costs down. Remember if I (as an ordinary seller) sell my car I just want a price and no profit. A dealer will need to make a profit on the car, hence you will pay plenty more. And also beware of dealers masquerading as private sellers. When you phone up about a car, just say "I am calling about the CAR for sale" instead of"I am calling about the YARIS for sale". If they ask you "which one", then they are a dealer and you will pay hundreds more. Another bit of advice is to bring someone with you to view the car, that guy down the road, someone that has done a bit of fiddling with cars.

And my last bit of advice is to never buy the car when you first look at it. Its your first car, you will get excited just sitting in it, fall in love with it, and this stops you thinking clearly/practically. Always go home and think about it overnight, look at some more ads. It lets the enthusiasm wear off and you will make a better decision (maybe I cant afford that 6 litre V8 ;-)). Then in the morning if you still want it, go get it.

Here are some tips for buying, there is lots of advice online and I would research as much as possible.:

http://mywheels.ie/buying-privately-top-5-tips/

Good luck.

bazz26 · 21-04-2014 10:17pm

Unless you are doing a lot of driving then I don't see the point in buying a diesel car. In your budget you will buy a lot fresher and probably newer petrol car than a diesel one.

Something like this:

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/kia-ceed-1-4-ex-5dr-07-wx-1204/6722473

Cannot really go wrong with one of them, they are very reliable and don't normally give any bother.

HeadPig · 21-04-2014 10:27pm

Thanks Stanley and Bazz for the responses!

Stanley Blade wrote: »

Hi Pig,

Your first car should be a small engined petrol car. Keep the tax and insurance costs down. Later on when you have built up no claims bonus, and have cheaper insurance coz you are over 25 or similar, then you can go bigger or diesel. Keep you money for important things i.e. beer, socialising.
I had a BMW at your age, was spending all my money on it while everyone else was able to party! Stupidest thing I ever did.

I have an 04 focus diesel, I am reasonably happy with it but it has had a few issues in the past few years (Speedo+clocks circuitboard corroding (cost hundreds), gearbox sensor, cam position sensor ,gas pedal)
I did these myself so did not cost much. You should realise that you will be hit with these bills when you drive a 10 year old car, so expect something to break and cost you a couple of hundred every once in a while, and budget for it.

Other makes you mentioned sound fine, but i dont like Kias and would not buy one. I had a friend that tried to trade one in, dealers really didnt want it, offered very little as it was a Kia.

If you can, try to get a Japanese car, they have a good name and a 10 year old one should be more reliable than a 10 year old focus etc. Knowing what I know now after having had many cars, I would try to find a Yaris with Genuine low mileage.

Be very wary, there are a lot of clocked cars out there. I know where you can get your car clocked for 70 euro, takes 15 minutes! Look carefully at the pedals, gear knob, carpets for wear. If the car only has 30 K these should not have worn much. I once parked my Van with 120k beside the same make at a dealer, his car had 50k on it, but the pedal rubbers were twice as worn as mine! Clocked!

I would also try to buy privately to keep the costs down. Remember if I (as an ordinary seller) sell my car I just want a price and no profit. A dealer will need to make a profit on the car, hence you will pay plenty more. And also beware of dealers masquerading as private sellers. When you phone up about a car, just say "I am calling about the CAR for sale" instead of"I am calling about the YARIS for sale". If they ask you "which one", then they are a dealer and you will pay hundreds more. Another bit of advice is to bring someone with you to view the car, that guy down the road, someone that has done a bit of fiddling with cars.

And my last bit of advice is to never buy the car when you first look at it. Its your first car, you will get excited just sitting in it, fall in love with it, and this stops you thinking clearly/practically. Always go home and think about it overnight, look at some more ads. It lets the enthusiasm wear off and you will make a better decision (maybe I cant afford that 6 litre V8 ;-)). Then in the morning if you still want it, go get it.

Here are some tips for buying, there is lots of advice online and I would research as much as possible.:

http://mywheels.ie/buying-privately-top-5-tips/

Good luck.

Everything you said makes a lot of sense. I had been looking at dealers up to now as I felt safer with them but I see your point regarding costs. Definitely agree with petrol, won't be driving huge amounts and want a smell engine anyway.

Everyone seems to say a yaris is very reliable, real pity that I can't get on board with how it looks. Style isn't a big concern for me but I really don't like the look of a yaris for some reason and it's a pity because everyone recommends them.

Thanks, great help, will read that article now.

bazz26 wrote: »

Unless you are doing a lot of driving then I don't see the point in buying a diesel car. In your budget you will buy a lot fresher and probably newer petrol car than a diesel one.

Something like this:

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/kia-ceed-1-4-ex-5dr-07-wx-1204/6722473

Cannot really go wrong with one of them, they are very reliable and don't normally give any bother.

Hi bazz. Thanks for response and recommendation. I'm left a tad confused now though as poster above has just discommended the kia brand. I actually saw a few of them in garages in and around my price range and wondered what people thought of them. I guess personal preference comes into all these things anyway. On first glance I don't mind how it looks so that's a start

colm_mcm · 21-04-2014 10:32pm

Kia ceed is a great car. Its a million miles from the outdated kias of years ago

HeadPig · 21-04-2014 10:34pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Kia ceed is a great car. Its a million miles from the outdated kias of years ago

They seem to have a reputation from a while back that is possibly no longer justified. I'll have to include them in my searches

colm_mcm · 21-04-2014 10:37pm

They're not just good for a kia, they're more reliance than practically anything else in its class, they have 5 star ncap, they're big enough inside, the 1.4 petrol has 108bhp versus 80bhp on a Golf or Focus.

Huawei Gallagher · 21-04-2014 10:38pm

Sorry I didnt really answer what you asked, so:

I would put my 100 best cars in this order:

#1Yaris
2 Polo
3 clio and focus
4 jetta (too big)

and at #100 in the chart:
Kia

bazz26 · 21-04-2014 10:38pm

I think the Kia stigma is a little outdated to be honest. They have vastly improved over the last decade and nowadays are producing cars just as good if not a little better than more established brands. Remember Skoda used to be the but of every joke too.

HeadPig · 21-04-2014 10:39pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

They're not just good for a kia, they're more reliance than practically anything else in its class, they have 5 star ncap, they're big enough inside, the 1.4 petrol has 108bhp versus 80bhp on a Golf or Focus.

I see. They make a strong case in fairness. On doing a quick googling, they were only made in 2006 so I guess they'll be at the upper end of my 5k budget

Huawei Gallagher · 21-04-2014 10:44pm

My friend that had the Kia was shocked when he went to trade it in, the dealers wouldnt give him anything. But that was when Kia were fairly new in town, so maybe things have changed.

Moneymaker · 22-04-2014 3:32am

Stanley Blade wrote: »

My friend that had the Kia was shocked when he went to trade it in, the dealers wouldnt give him anything. But that was when Kia were fairly new in town, so maybe things have changed.

You're 6-8 years behind the times.

Kia C'eed is a great car.

Huawei Gallagher · 22-04-2014 2:39pm

Well Headpig will likely be buying an 8 year old car, not a new "C apostrophe D" ;-) . So I dont know whether the first cars Kia sold have a bad reputation based on their quality, or people were biased because they were new players in the market.

If you can afford to buy a brand new car and trade it in every couple of years before it gives any trouble then by all means buy a Kia. But if you are buying cars at the 10 year old/ 80,000+ mileage range then you are in the zone where there will be mechanical issues to be fixed. And so you should try to get one that is least likely to break down, or else you could be hit with some big bills that you probably cant afford at age 22. Pig mentioned Toyota or Volkswagen, I would think these are good choices.

And if you do try to trade it in/sell it later on, you should keep in mind that, justified or not, Kias have a bad reputation which will affect the price you get.

I do think Yarises (Yarii?) are purty ugly too. Not really a "Guy" car sadly.

You should ask a real mechanic what they think, they will let you know pretty quickly which car to pick.

JohnBoy26 · 22-04-2014 2:53pm

Stanley Blade wrote: »

Well Headpig will likely be buying an 8 year old car, not a new "C apostrophe D" ;-) . So I dont know whether the first cars Kia sold have a bad reputation based on their quality, or people were biased because they were new players in the market.

If you can afford to buy a brand new car and trade it in every couple of years before it gives any trouble then by all means buy a Kia. But if you are buying cars at the 10 year old/ 80,000+ mileage range then you are in the zone where there will be mechanical issues to be fixed. And so you should try to get one that is least likely to break down, or else you could be hit with some big bills that you probably cant afford at age 22. Pig mentioned Toyota or Volkswagen, I would think these are good choices.

And if you do try to trade it in/sell it later on, you should keep in mind that, justified or not, Kias have a bad reputation which will affect the price you get.

I do think Yarises (Yarii?) are purty ugly too. Not really a "Guy" car sadly.

You should ask a real mechanic what they think, they will let you know pretty quickly which car to pick.

Ah here come off it, the cee'd is fine car and is very reliable. If your so sure that the give trouble please mention the issues they give?

Also how is the equivalent"Toyota or Volkswagen" any better?

bazz26 · 22-04-2014 4:01pm

Stanley Blade wrote: »

Well Headpig will likely be buying an 8 year old car, not a new "C apostrophe D" ;-) . So I dont know whether the first cars Kia sold have a bad reputation based on their quality, or people were biased because they were new players in the market.

If you can afford to buy a brand new car and trade it in every couple of years before it gives any trouble then by all means buy a Kia. But if you are buying cars at the 10 year old/ 80,000+ mileage range then you are in the zone where there will be mechanical issues to be fixed. And so you should try to get one that is least likely to break down, or else you could be hit with some big bills that you probably cant afford at age 22. Pig mentioned Toyota or Volkswagen, I would think these are good choices.

And if you do try to trade it in/sell it later on, you should keep in mind that, justified or not, Kias have a bad reputation which will affect the price you get.

I do think Yarises (Yarii?) are purty ugly too. Not really a "Guy" car sadly.

You should ask a real mechanic what they think, they will let you know pretty quickly which car to pick.

So out of interest, what is your opinion of Hyundai?

Huawei Gallagher · 22-04-2014 4:52pm

You can find surveys of satisfaction out there, these are from 2007, around the year for your budget.Please note where the Toyotas are. I am going to finish my Kia bashing for the day!

http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/105774033.jpg

http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/1057740480.jpg

http://www.whatcar.com/News/Detail?tag=jd-power-survey-2007&pageTag=small-family-cars&articleID=225557

JohnBoy26 · 22-04-2014 5:00pm

You have failed to answer any question regarding they cee'd that was put to you.

Instead you post some surveys that are pretty meaningless to your argument as they bear no relation to the car in question.

please stop listening to your mates down the pub as its doing you no favours

Huawei Gallagher · 22-04-2014 6:10pm

If you actually read my posts, you would see that I never mentioned anything about Ceeds except to say that it is likely that it would be out of headpigs pricerange, which he more or less said himself.

I am not here to answer your irrelevant questions about a car that Headpig probably cant afford with his budget. Dont ask me questions, give him some information about Kias or Hyundais. Show him a sub 5000 euro Ceed. I have already given my opinion on the cars he mentioned. You obviously don't like my opinion (which is backed up with real survey data). Congratulations.

colm_mcm · 22-04-2014 7:12pm

Stanley Blade wrote: »

You can find surveys of satisfaction out there, these are from 2007, around the year for your budget.Please note where the Toyotas are. I am going to finish my Kia bashing for the day!

http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/105774033.jpg

http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/1057740480.jpg

http://www.whatcar.com/News/Detail?tag=jd-power-survey-2007&pageTag=small-family-cars&articleID=225557

First link is for the JD Power survey of 2007 which would survey 2004 cars. To give you an idea how relevant that is, mg rover are on that list.

Second one doesn't even have the model in question.

Third one just recaps the first two.

carlowmurphy · 23-04-2014 3:37pm

JohnBoy is either a kia salesman or has one himself and therefore thinks their the best car ever made.
Don't mind the look of them myself although you'll find it hard to find a good one on that budget. Looks more of a small family car than a first lads car in my opinion.
A more reliable old VW maybe. I know VW are overpriced but some bargains out there. Golf all the way in my opinion.

colm_mcm · 23-04-2014 3:40pm

Is a Golf not a small family car?

JohnBoy26 · 23-04-2014 3:54pm

carlowmurphy wrote: »

JohnBoy is either a kia salesman or has one himself and therefore thinks their the best car ever made.
Don't mind the look of them myself although you'll find it hard to find a good one on that budget. Looks more of a small family car than a first lads car in my opinion.
A more reliable old VW maybe. I know VW are overpriced but some bargains out there. Golf all the way in my opinion.

A Kia salesman I ain't, nor do I own one. I do however like to look beyond the badge and judge a car on how well it's made, rather than on it's brand image, or should I say it's long gone, past image, in this case.

Your like the other poster on here who thinks anything with a Vw badge or a Toyota badge is superior to anything else.

Are you seriously saying a 1.4 Golf is more reliable than a 1.4 cee'd? My experience of these two cars tells me otherwise but please do explains why a 1.4 golf is more reliable? Im all ears.

carlowmurphy · 23-04-2014 3:56pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Is a Golf not a small family car?

Point taken but I couldn't imagine a young lad driving a Kia C'eed by choice. A 10 year old golf would be perfect for OP. Gearbox is a bit tight on VWs I find but maybe I'm just used to different cars. A few drives and I got used to it anyway.

carlowmurphy · 23-04-2014 4:02pm

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

A Kia salesman I ain't, nor do I own one. I do however like to look beyond the badge and judge a car on how well it's made, rather than on it's brand image, or should I say it's long gone, past image, in this case.

Your like the other poster on here who thinks anything with a Vw badge or a Toyota badge is superior to anything else.

Are you seriously saying a 1.4 Golf is more reliable than a 1.4 cee'd? My experience of these two cars tells me otherwise but please do explains why a 1.4 golf is more reliable? Im all ears.

No I don't think anything with a VW badge or Toyota badge are superior.
VW are overrated and overpriced in my opinion but a golf would be a good starter car. Unless he wants to go lower engine size altogether.
I dont rate toyota cars at all. Overhyped.
Kia in my eyes aren't as good. They've a terrible rep and I myself can never get over this. But in saying that I have seen the rise of skoda. They now make brilliant reliable cars.
Look its my personal opinion.

colm_mcm · 23-04-2014 4:06pm

I don't think kia were ever unreliable. They were basically rehashed mazdas for a long time, the gripe most people had with them was that they were butt-ugly, and outdated, cars like the original rio (from 2000) for example.

carlowmurphy · 23-04-2014 4:12pm

Well a uncle of mine bought a 4 year old kia back a few years ago. Not sure of the model but he had nothing but hardship with it. Inside build quality was atrocious. After 4 years fixtures were worn down and basic things like lights and pedals were going wrong. After a few months he sold it for much less.
That's just my personal experience and so I won't buy a kia.
I know they've improved since then but the OP wants to buy second hand and hes not going to get any kia newish for 5 grand.

JohnBoy26 · 23-04-2014 4:13pm

carlowmurphy wrote: »

No I don't think anything with a VW badge or Toyota badge are superior.
VW are overrated and overpriced in my opinion but a golf would be a good starter car. Unless he wants to go lower engine size altogether.
I dont rate toyota cars at all. Overhyped.
Kia in my eyes aren't as good. They've a terrible rep and I myself can never get over this. But in saying that I have seen the rise of skoda. They now make brilliant reliable cars.
Look its my personal opinion.

It's your personal opinion and that's fair enough but the fact is that Kia have come on leaps and bounds since the mid 00's. Their terrible reputation is long gone and the cee'd is a well made car with a very reliable and decent 108bhp engine.

The golf is a good car too but not in 1.4 petrol form. This engine is terrible. Its a very soft engine that can(most do) burn lots of oil and start to sound like a bag of spanners as they age. They are also very slow and underpowered. I wouldn't recommend one to anyone.

JohnBoy26 · 23-04-2014 4:15pm

carlowmurphy wrote: »

Well a uncle of mine bought a 4 year old kia back a few years ago. Not sure of the model but he had nothing but hardship with it. Inside build quality was atrocious. After 4 years fixtures were worn down and basic things like lights and pedals were going wrong. After a few months he sold it for much less.
That's just my personal experience and so I won't buy a kia.
I know they've improved since then but the OP wants to buy second hand and hes not going to get any kia newish for 5 grand.

Must of been a good few years back that. A cee'd can be got for 5k.

colm_mcm · 23-04-2014 4:16pm

carlowmurphy wrote: »

Well a uncle of mine bought a 4 year old kia back a few years ago. Not sure of the model but he had nothing but hardship with it. Inside build quality was atrocious. After 4 years fixtures were worn down and basic things like lights and pedals were going wrong. After a few months he sold it for much less.
That's just my personal experience and so I won't buy a kia.
I know they've improved since then but the OP wants to buy second hand and hes not going to get any kia newish for 5 grand.

07 ceeds regularly come up for 5 grand.
Going on your logic, I could say that my grandfather bought a beetle in 1976 and it rusted, therefore I won't ever buy a Golf.

carlowmurphy · 23-04-2014 4:27pm

I am unfair then to the cee'd. I'm more talking about earlier golfs but again I've never driven any one for long enough to get a true impression.
And what I meant to say I was I won't buy an old kia from before mid 00s

HeadPig · 23-04-2014 8:43pm

Thanks for responses, interesting discussion. I think a golf is out of my price range, unless it was too old, but just out of curiosity, what accounts for the large price disparity between a golf and a polo? Does it come down to horsepower?

First car - few questions

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