Hibernia College PME VS. NUIG PME

kkhan · 22-04-2014 11:38am #1

Hi all I'm new to this so sorry for any mistakes!

I was just wondering what are peoples' thoughts on the Hibernia College PME versus a full time university based PME (Post Primary)?

I've already been accepted into the Nuig 2014 PME but now that its gone up to 2 years it puts a significant financial strain on me! I've already been in college 5 years so the thoughts of another 2 full time are a bit off putting!

I've researched Hibernia and in the long run it works out roughly the same cost as NUIG (apx 12,000) and I would be able to work full time during Hibernia.

I know Principals generally prefer a university degree over the Hibernia and initially I had justified that by figuring that it'll be so hard to get a job either way when I finish due to the lack of teaching opportunities... But... the fact though that there is significantly more teaching practice in NUIG - 34 weeks compared to Hibernia's 24 is worrying me!

There seems to be a bit of snobbery surrounding the Hibernia off anyone I've asked.. so was just wondering if there are any past Hibernia people out there particularly with any advice or even anyone in the same position as me?

Thanks!

whiteandlight · 22-04-2014 12:54pm

Anecdotally:
1. Difficult to get placement in school
2. Not well respected by management
3. Not sure it has been updated to be inline with the new changes to the qualification (website only showing info for class entering march 2014). It should be showing as a level 9 now and it's not

I haven't done the course myself so I can't really give any further feedback

sitstill · 22-04-2014 4:31pm

I agree with what Musicmental has said especially regarding the fact that Hibernia is not highly regarded by management. But of course this is entirely anecdotal. Jobs are hard to come-by for everyone - why make it even harder for yourself?

TheDriver · 22-04-2014 4:34pm

only by some management and at that, its mostly primary that seems to have an issue with Hibernia but mostly for no reason.
I do find Hibernia students are well prepared, have seen a diverse range of methodologies and are ready for the workplace. Hibernia isn't afraid to fail people either. I would do which ever one suits.
Its your subjects and TC registration that matters along with ability to teach, classroom management and enthusiasm, nothing else as far as I or others I know in management are concerned.

kkhan · 22-04-2014 5:01pm

Thanks for the input everyone, it is much appreciated.

With regard to Hibernia being accredited, I spoke to them and it is being updated. So in effect I would get the same level 9 masters qualification at the end as I would do if I did the NUIG course, except I wouldn't have the same level of teaching practice experience - that's the part that worries me about doing Hibernia - I'm not sure how important that would be if I were to be up against someone in an interview situation who had the NUIG 34 weeks experience compared to my Hibernia 24? Would an extra 10 weeks make much of a difference if I performed well in an interview?

Pinkycharm · 22-04-2014 5:37pm

You do more hours with hibernia in the week. I did the PDE with them and I was doing almost double the hours of the UL students doing TP with me. So in the long run it probably works out the same. Principals who are related to me regard hibernia students very highly because of the discipline they have for distance learning.

kkhan · 22-04-2014 5:54pm

Oh Wow Pinkycharm thanks, that's really good to know! I must ring them back again so and find out what the hours are like because I know the NUIG is only 8-10 classes per week in the first year which I didn't think was a lot to start with. If you don't mind me asking how did you don't mind me asking, what was your experience of Hibernia like? Do you feel it was a worthwhile decision now that you've completed it? Thanks

Mardy Bum · 22-04-2014 5:59pm

kkhan wrote: »

Oh Wow Pinkycharm thanks, that's really good to know! I must ring them back again so and find out what the hours are like because I know the NUIG is only 8-10 classes per week in the first year which I didn't think was a lot to start with. If you don't mind me asking how did you don't mind me asking, what was your experience of Hibernia like? Do you feel it was a worthwhile decision now that you've completed it? Thanks

Hibernia do less hours teaching hours than what was the PDE now PME. 8-10 is the usual amount of classes across all NUIs.

Pinkycharm · 22-04-2014 6:07pm

kkhan wrote: »

Oh Wow Pinkycharm thanks, that's really good to know! I must ring them back again so and find out what the hours are like because I know the NUIG is only 8-10 classes per week in the first year which I didn't think was a lot to start with. If you don't mind me asking how did you don't mind me asking, what was your experience of Hibernia like? Do you feel it was a worthwhile decision now that you've completed it? Thanks

yeah with hibernia you do minimum 18 classes a week plus you have to be involved with extra curricular. they ensure you have a mentor in the school (their training can be part of croke park hours and is done online too). The inspectors are the same as UL etc, one man was into me one week and in for the UL student the next week so no real difference there. they can send out a grade moderator or a course moderator (for your thoughts on the course too). I did it the first year it started basically had to tick a box for the school I am in but overall it was okay. A few people in my class had issues finding the TP, you have to organise it yourself and before you take up the course I would start asking schools. Course work was fine over all, its continuous assessment all through and then one final exam which was grand. you do a thesis to cover a module on special needs ed thats 5000 words but its grand. The lecturers were all great and the onsites were local to me, in limerick. When branching into subjects though you could be sent anywhere in the country, i know a girl from cork ended up in donegal for a maths onsite. i am still in touch with everyone in my group via a facebook page we set up to discuss our experiences so far and to give each other advice. i was able to teach at the same time so it was grand, you need 15 weeks off anyways TP blocks are 5 weeks each. my subjects are irish and geography so it was grand for those subjects! 5 in our staff are hibernia trained, we were studying the layout of the new JC and how to go about planning short and long courses. did great stuff on ICT and Classroom management too that i still use and great skills in correcting and giving feedback. if you need anything else let me know!

oh and when you graduate i think you are offered all their CPD courses for €50 instead of the €400 they are over the summers.

EDIT: i think principals can favour hibernia because they do offer CPD courses at a reduced rate to staff after the school has taken 3 students on different blocks.

kkhan · 22-04-2014 7:03pm

I really appreciate you taking the time to reply. That was very helpful and has really reassured me about Hibernia! Thanks a million!

History Queen · 22-04-2014 11:39pm

Hi,
I too am a Hibernia graduate, from their first intake of second level teachers. (2011). I just wanted to make a few points:
1. If I were to go back and do the dip again it would not be with Hibernia.
2. Our cohort was the first (as I already said) and there were more than a few mistakes/miscommunications and errors made by the college along the way regarding assignments/ deadlines and changes to requirements at the last minute. I don't know if these issues have been rectified or not- perhaps someone from a later cohort could clarify?

2. I worked during Hibernia but had to change jobs 3 times as employers could not justify giving me 5 weeks leave for teaching practice- another employer could not accommodate my need to work early shifts so I could be at home to log into webinars for college two evenings a week ( had same issue with needing 14 Saturdays to attend on-site sessions). While it is possible to work while doing Hibernia- it is not easy unless you have an understanding employer and are disciplined with your time management as several times we had weeks of almost no work and then 3/4 assignments in quick succession ( again following our complaints this may have been rectified)

3. I found a lack of clarity between tutors during the course ie. tutor group 1 were told to do A and B but not C on an assignment wile group 2 were told to do B and C but not to touch A. When assignments were graded it seems it was luck of the draw whether your pen tutor graded them or not and often people were marked down for following what tutor 1 said as tutor 2 corrected and wanted different criteria

I know I sound awfully negative but this is an accurate account of some of what I experienced- as I said- it may be different now but overall I found Hibernia difficult to deal with and inflexible. That said I qualified with my 1.1 ( August 2013) and have not been out of work since so I suppose I got the end result I wanted! :-)

kkhan · 23-04-2014 12:08am

History Queen wrote: »

I know I sound awfully negative but this is an accurate account of some of what I experienced

Hi History Queen, no not at all I'm delighted to hear opinions!!

I hadn't realised 2011 had been the first post primary cohort actually, I had wondered alright why there was a lot more opinions/info on primary.

Congrats on the 1.1 by the way, that's some achievement and delighted to hear you're working! How did you find getting work? Did you encounter any 'Hibernia prejudice' from anyone during the application process? Thanks!

Caiseoipe19 · 23-04-2014 12:12am

Regarding TP...Hibernia students don't get any warning of when inspectors will be coming to observe. They can walk into the school on any day for any class, so you need to have your TP folder and all Lesson Plans with you everyday and ready to be inspected. On the other hand, when I was doing it in NUIG we were always told the day before that the inspector would be coming sometime the next day. If you were lucky, you got a bit more than a days notice, depending on your tutor.

I found NUIG staff, especially the course coordinator extremely helpful. Absolute legend of a woman that would always make time to see you and help you out if you were under pressure. Not sure if she's still over it though. I thought a lot of the material we had to study was a waste of time, whereas not enough time/effort was given to our subject methodologies. But at the end of the day, I think doing it in NUIG was a lot less stressful than it would've been doing it through Hibernia.

History Queen · 23-04-2014 8:43am

I have had two interviews since leaving Hibernia and I was successful in both.

Saying that the fact that I went to Hibernia was commented on but I think in both cases the principals were curious about how the course ran- they asked things like how did I find the course, how did I find the distance learning etc Also, one of them commented on the ridiculous amount of work Hibernia dips had to do on teaching practice and said he couldn't understand why so much was forced on them. ( he had a past pupil on his school back on teaching practice with Hibernia)

I have however experienced some prejudice in the staff room in relation to Hibernia "oh you've an online qualification" , "you didn't do the ACTUAL dip so" I just let it go over my head- I know I am good at what I do and don't need to worry about what others think- saying that I know people who did the dip In other colleges and going by what they say I do feel they are better prepared for the realities of the classroom than I was as regards, schemes of work, paper work etc

Pinkycharm · 23-04-2014 10:45am

History Queen wrote: »

Hi,
I too am a Hibernia graduate, from their first intake of second level teachers. (2011). I just wanted to make a few points:
1. If I were to go back and do the dip again it would not be with Hibernia.
2. Our cohort was the first (as I already said) and there were more than a few mistakes/miscommunications and errors made by the college along the way regarding assignments/ deadlines and changes to requirements at the last minute. I don't know if these issues have been rectified or not- perhaps someone from a later cohort could clarify?

2. I worked during Hibernia but had to change jobs 3 times as employers could not justify giving me 5 weeks leave for teaching practice- another employer could not accommodate my need to work early shifts so I could be at home to log into webinars for college two evenings a week ( had same issue with needing 14 Saturdays to attend on-site sessions). While it is possible to work while doing Hibernia- it is not easy unless you have an understanding employer and are disciplined with your time management as several times we had weeks of almost no work and then 3/4 assignments in quick succession ( again following our complaints this may have been rectified)

3. I found a lack of clarity between tutors during the course ie. tutor group 1 were told to do A and B but not C on an assignment wile group 2 were told to do B and C but not to touch A. When assignments were graded it seems it was luck of the draw whether your pen tutor graded them or not and often people were marked down for following what tutor 1 said as tutor 2 corrected and wanted different criteria

I know I sound awfully negative but this is an accurate account of some of what I experienced- as I said- it may be different now but overall I found Hibernia difficult to deal with and inflexible. That said I qualified with my 1.1 ( August 2013) and have not been out of work since so I suppose I got the end result I wanted! :-)

My younger brother is actually doing the course he was OCT12 cohort and just asked him out of curiosity, showed him this post and said that its more or less the same in terms of disorganisation but he had no other option but to do online so it suited him. i guess it just depends.

Paulway · 24-04-2014 3:29pm

KKhan - I hope this helps - a little.

Hibernia PDE Pros. & Cons.

Pros.

The course can be completed without forcing a career change at the outset. (although the 15 weeks have to be spent in school placement (3 x 5wk blocks), I’m self employed so I had no problem. It would be an understanding boss indeed who would allow this if you were an employee (that being said one student I know held down his regular job (IT) while on teaching practice – mammoth task - in car in free periods sending e-mails...).

As the lectures and tutorials are online they can be listened to again and again when studying. Even podcasted for future use...

Most of the lecturers and onsite facilitators were teachers not academics without classroom experience. It is easy to listen to a teacher of 15-20 years when they’re giving you advice.

All of my teaching practice inspections were carried out by retired principals and Vp’s with the subject they were inspecting. They were easy to listen to and had the authority of 30-35 years experience. Great advice and given with the authority of their years. This was not the case with many inspectors from other colleges, who, in some cases were never in front of a class but had a masters in child psychology….

We did a substantial module on Behavioural Issues & Special Educational Needs. Big issue now – I do not think any of the other courses have any BISEN at all, but stand to be corrected.

The college had an interview process, the only other college with an interview for me was Trinity, I thought this was very good. It’s a reasonable question to ask “why do you want to be a teacher?” I found so many PDE students (I did 5 weeks each in 3 different schools) were doing the PDE because there parents thought it was a good idea???????????

As I said I did 5wks in each of 3 schools. Difficult at the time (forced out of comfort zones) but I have now got relationships with three sets of management and many teachers have me on their radar…..

Cons.
College administration/administrators. I am in my early 40’s and have 20 years professional experience behind me. Possibly the target demographic for this college. I paid over € 9K to participate in this course and did not do so lightly. I am not a 19 year old student. The college administrators have on occasion treated me like a child student rather than a paying customer. In the end I just kept my eye on the prize and waited to be finished. The college had a functional role in my life as a means to an end. Zero spirit de corps.

Grades/grading questions.
At third level grading in essay type assignments are always going to be subjective, this is a given. However from stories of marks obtained and from personal experience it seamed to be extreme here.
I was very, very disappointed with two grades. In the end I decided not to challenge them as I did not feel the college would be able to accept/uphold a challenge. There is a fee and a long process to be gone through, its off-putting, defensive and immature.

Final Exam:- School Development and Legal Aspects of Education (important to be able to talk about these at interview in next few years...other colleges?) they are the only PDE programme with a final written exam. They are in the shop window and throwing everything at it. As a student of Hibernia you cover much more material in much more depth than the other colleges, which is great and feels wonderful in conversation with other PDE’s and teachers. However it is hard to see it that way when your studying on Sunday mornings in summer. It’s the same qualification in the end and it feels like they are throwing everything at the student to build their reputation - where as the other colleges may have confidence of their reputation already.

PDE’s from NUIG had 8-10 classes per week. We had to have 18 classes (12hours). Many did their lesson plans on one page - after the fact-. With Hibernia you have to upload lesson plans online before 9am on the day of a lesson. Inspectors have it with them when they come to see you. Envious of the NUIG’s I mentioned this to my first inspector, who rightly pointed out “ whats the point of doing a lesson plan – after the lesson”…..fair enough - Hibernia have it right here, but the detail required is bonkers and 18 of them a week in alot of work for sure.

Time line.
My final exam was over 24 months after my course began. Final result over 2 months after that. So final qualification and registration date was over 26 months. It seemed like a long time before it was over. Same qualification in NUI’s – 7 months – Oct-May and out the gap. More intense no doubt but over and moving on much, much sooner.

You are on your own.
You see other students occasionally. There is little opportunity to meet for coffee to pass on tips/tricks and share resources as would be usual in another college.

Graduation – after paying them €9K they want €50 to attend graduation so they can have a photo-op.

Final remarks.
Hibernia was a means to an end for me. I got Cork and Trinity but would have had to close my business to attend, it suited my self employed status down to the ground. I enjoyed what I learnt and the experiences I had and gained. The sadness is that I feel no love towards the college that facilitated my journey.

As for anti-Hibernia sentiment. I had one comment about the course from a teacher in line for retirement. When I rebutted “ how do you know” she was left without words, truth was she had no experience of Hibernia but did not like it because it is new....
I have been a professional for 20 years and I conducted myself as such. I have been asked back to each school I have been in on TP and two more besides (upon recommendation from principals).
In reality the PDE will not make you a good teacher. In large portion it’s in you or its not. PDE can improve your pedagogy but will not make teaching suit you if you do not suit teaching. In the end it's a performance.
Someone with a PDE 2.2 could be a far better teacher than someone with a PDE 1.1 - fact.

For yourself:
Teaching is a lovely job/occupation when things are going well and you like what you are doing (many teachers are unhappy and possibly should never have been teachers, you'll remember them from school yourself).
It can also be the worst job on earth and a tough, tough station when things are going wrong.
The paperwork/planning/and legal aspects of teaching are making it less attractive going forward - you have to want to be a teacher, to be a good teacher or to be happy for that matter. If you cant "learn" (it is a skill) to control a class room of teanager's then your days could be very, very stressful.

Good luck with your decision - in the end you'll have to make one - then get behind it 100% and do your very best at each task ahead of you. It'll not matter one whit what college your with if you can do that - (in any walk of life).

If you decide on teaching - enjoy the privilege parents entrust to you, allowing you to care for their most precious possessions, in carrying out your role, which in the end matters a very great deal indeed.

TheBody · 24-04-2014 9:32pm

^^^ What an EXCELLENT post. I'd thank it twice if I could.

Chopper12 · 29-04-2014 12:22pm

I agree, great post Paulway!

Thanks for putting the effort into that.

A lot of positive and useful information there.

solerina · 01-05-2014 1:00pm

We have 3 recent Hibernia graduates working in our school, all did TP here, all are doing great. I am a co-operating teacher in my school and of the recent people who have passed through here I would choose Hibernia over UL (no question in general), I have no experience of NUIG though as we are too far away.

kkhan · 03-05-2014 7:36pm

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I really appreciate people taking the time to write a reply, I had no idea how helpful all this advice/experience would be when I first asked the question. This site is a fantastic resource. Thank you!

Spice30 · 30-06-2014 9:41pm

Hi just wondering dose anyone have any tips on the interview for Hibernia?

I have an interview with them soon for secondary my main subject being English and then History. I would love to go back to university to get my teaching qualification as advised above, but I just wouldn't be able to afford it.

If anyone could offer me some tips on the general interview or subject interview that would be great.

clowol24 · 27-08-2014 6:02pm

Hi,
I have just been offered a position on the PME course. Does anybody know if I can defer my position until April? And how do I go about doing it?

Thanks in advance!

Pinkycharm · 27-08-2014 8:46pm

clowol24 wrote: »

Hi,
I have just been offered a position on the PME course. Does anybody know if I can defer my position until April? And how do I go about doing it?

Thanks in advance!

Hey just ring the college and ask for a deferral form. Normally you are sent out one when you are given a place

clowol24 · 27-08-2014 9:32pm

Pinkycharm wrote: »

Hey just ring the college and ask for a deferral form. Normally you are sent out one when you are given a place

Thank you so much! Really appreciate it.

Lmcd545 · 28-08-2014 8:25pm

I completed the Hibernia course in July 2013 (October 2011 cohort)

I found it to be a very manageable course and the subject methodology lecturers were current teachers with a wide range of experience in teaching. They were excellent and very supportive.

I worked in the UK last year and found that Hibernia had really prepared me for that system in terms of workload expectations. I do not believe that I was unsuccessful finding work last summer as I was a Hibernia graduate, I had no experience post qualification and competition for jobs was extremely high.

I had three interviews this summer all of which were successful.

I do not believe that there is any prejudice from schools regarding where you gained your PDE.

Hibernia place emphasis on becoming part of school life, you get a minimum of 18 hours per week and you are encouraged and expected to get involved in extra curricular activities. Your involvement and participation will be noted by the principal who will be one of your referees.

At the end of the day your willingness to get involved in extracurricular will set you aside from someone else in an interview. All applicants who are shortlisted will have the relevant qualifications so you need to have a track record of something that makes you stand out as a potential asset to the school. Hibernia really emphasise that.

One major bonus which I found compared to other PDE providers is the blocks of TP. You are thrown in for the full school experience. You don't just teach in the morning and leave to go to college at lunch time. You have the opportunity to show Hibernia and the school that you are useful outside of the classroom.

You will need to motivate yourself for Hibernia, no one will push you so you have to ask yourself if it will be the right course for you.
I agree to some extent that it was disorganised at times but there is no point in putting all of your energy into being frustrated with the system, I just got on with it and I found it to be quite enjoyable overall.

amacca · 28-08-2014 9:12pm

Paulway wrote: »

We did a substantial module on Behavioural Issues & Special Educational Needs. Big issue now – I do not think any of the other courses have any BISEN at all, but stand to be corrected.

Final Exam:- they are the only PDE programme with a final written exam.

Agreed with most of what you said Paulway! but on the above - I did the dip in UCC and both SEN and behavioural issues were covered, SEN in great detail + there was a final written exam (damned if I know what it was on now its so long ago although I had the largest A4 folder I ever had crammed full of prepared answers/material/notes for it!)- people did seem to almost treat it as a formality during the year but failing it wasn't an option if you wanted the qualification…..I remember a lot of stressed trainee teachers that morning.

caromar · 30-08-2014 10:18pm

clowol24 wrote: »

Hi,
I have just been offered a position on the PME course. Does anybody know if I can defer my position until April? And how do I go about doing it?

Thanks in advance!

Hi there, I've also been offered a place on the PME for September but was hoping to defer also.Did the college say its an option? I only found out on Thursday that I was accepted.The day after my interview.

Pinkycharm · 30-08-2014 10:19pm

caromar wrote: »

Hi there, I've also been offered a place on the PME for September but was hoping to defer also.Did the college say its an option? I only found out on Thursday that I was accepted.The day after my interview.

you just ring the office and explain your situation or email them

they send you out a form to fill in then.

southcounty · 19-11-2014 10:12pm

Hi guys,
I'm thinking of applying for March 2015 intake? Has anyone any advice on how to prep for interview or what questions are generally asked? Also people who are qualified, is it as tough to get a permanent position as people say or is the tide changing? I'm very worried that I could do the course and spend the next 7-10 years subbing as someone keeps telling me

southcounty · 19-11-2014 10:17pm

Hi guys,
I'm thinking of applying for March 2015 intake? Has anyone any advice on how to prep for interview or what questions are generally asked? Also people who are qualified, is it as tough to get a permanent position as people say or is the tide changing? I'm very worried that I could do the course and spend the next 7-10 years subbing as someone keeps telling me

Pinkycharm · 19-11-2014 10:36pm

southcounty wrote: »

Hi guys,
I'm thinking of applying for March 2015 intake? Has anyone any advice on how to prep for interview or what questions are generally asked? Also people who are qualified, is it as tough to get a permanent position as people say or is the tide changing? I'm very worried that I could do the course and spend the next 7-10 years subbing as someone keeps telling me

If teaching is what you want to do apply!!

straight after I graduated I got a maternity leave and havent left the school since- that's 3 years ago now nearly so there is hope but I will say subbing gave me an incredible experience portfolio. I know everyone kind of has to start off subbing around but you will get there and will learn so much along the way. Hopefully with these new schools and the demand for new teachers you will be okay. What are your subjects?

My interview was really simple but things have obviously changed now. AFL and AOL are huge contenders in the interview, the new proposed JC and of course the syllabus of your subjects! They may ask you to give an example of how you would teach something and ICT is a big thing too! I was in Hibernias first group ever for PP. It was fairly disorganised then but the new cohorts seem to be having a way better experience. You can be left on your own for a lot of it especially research.

If you are even thinking of applying look for a school to take you for teaching practice or get your name in a school for Jan 16 onwards. It is extremely hard to find placement because UL and NUIG are out at the same time as hibernia.

Lastly, hibernia produces some fantastic teachers and I've learned a lot more from the new hibernia students and teachers in my school now!

Go for it!!

Hibernia College PME VS. NUIG PME

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