Man used hired digger to steal part of railway tracks

metrovick001 · 03-07-2014 8:38am #1

From the irish independant - link

A man hired a digger, lowloader and a tractor before stripping the disused Claremorris to Collooney railway line in the west of Ireland of 117 metres of iron track, a court heard. Christopher Burke (49), with an address at Sarsfield Crescent, Charlestown, Co Mayo, had earlier pleaded guilty to the theft of 18 steel railway lines, valued at €8,957 at Carrowreagh, Kiltimagh, in September 2012.

He also pleaded guilty to causing €30,000 of damage to the rail line and a fence.

Sergeant Tom McIntyre told Judge Rory MacCabe at the Circuit Criminal Court in Castlebar that gardai were alerted by a member of the public about activity on the railway. In total 117 metres of track had been removed, the witness said.

Christopher Burke, who was on the scene when Sergeant McIntyre arrived to investigate, admitted his involvement.

A second man on the scene proclaimed his innocence of any criminal activity. He was subsequently charged with theft and criminal damage but was acquitted on both charges by a jury last week.

Judge MacCabe imposed a three-year prison sentence – suspended provided that Burke pay €5,000 compensation to the rail company within six months.

corktina · 03-07-2014 8:55am

€30,000 damage to the Burma Rd? lol just lol

tipptom · 03-07-2014 8:58am

He caused 30 grands worth of damage,stole 8 grands worth of track and gets away with a suspended sentence and only has to pay 5 grand with 6 months to pay it.

Who pays for the 30 grands worth of damage considering this is a public company losing money hand over fist?.
Kinda answering my own question really huh.

whisky_galore · 03-07-2014 9:04am

Fair play to the member of the public who reported it, a lot of people wouldn't look twice at someone 'helping themselves'.

Of course if the powers that be woke up to metal theft and regulating the scrap dealers, we wouldn't have this problem.

whisky_galore · 03-07-2014 10:02am

Have to lol at the link, track stolen from Burma Rd...pic is of Victoria Station London....which is relevant to article because....?

Losty Dublin · 03-07-2014 10:39am

tipptom wrote: »

He caused 30 grands worth of damage,stole 8 grands worth of track and gets away with a suspended sentence and only has to pay 5 grand with 6 months to pay it.

Who pays for the 30 grands worth of damage considering this is a public company losing money hand over fist?.
Kinda answering my own question really huh.

A more apt condition in sentencing would have been requesting this guilty gentleman to pay the costs incurred in replacing the stolen track panels.

whisky_galore · 03-07-2014 11:15am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

A more apt condition in sentencing would have been requesting this guilty gentleman to pay the costs incurred in replacing the stolen track panels.

Like that's ever going to happen, ah shure God love him, probably has kiddywinks and all. *cue sad violin music*

corktina · 03-07-2014 11:17am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

A more apt condition in sentencing would have been requesting this guilty gentleman to pay the costs incurred in replacing the stolen track panels.

what for? never going to be needed

Losty Dublin · 03-07-2014 11:38am

corktina wrote: »

what for? never going to be needed

Wether the line is used or not isn't relevant here; costs here need to be higher to teach him a lesson that stealing and damaging property won't be tolerated by the State. Courts orders for costs of €5,000 towards damages that costs €30,000 to make good is a pittance.

metrovick001 · 03-07-2014 12:39pm

According to who?

corktina wrote: »

what for? never going to be needed

corktina · 03-07-2014 12:49pm

Copyerselveson · 03-07-2014 1:02pm

The real weakness here is the sentencing policy or lack of it by the courts. Seems to me that judges are often swayed by sad sack performances by the accused in the dock and are then inclined to give over-lenient sentences and a requirement for the accused to stick a few bob in the poor box.

As Losty says, the damage isn't just the lifting of the rails it's the whole track panels that will need replacing, regardless of whether the line is in use or not. €5,000 would not cover the real cost of this particular theft.

metrovick001 · 03-07-2014 1:07pm

Ahh thats ok so, nothing to worry about.

corktina wrote: »

me

corktina · 03-07-2014 1:34pm

you worry that the Burma Road may not re-open one day?

Judgement Day · 03-07-2014 1:59pm

Anybody seen westtip?

corktina · 03-07-2014 2:13pm

unavoidably detained.

dowlingm · 04-07-2014 4:38am

What this highlights is that how much money CIE is leaving rusting in the ground (allowing for scrap vs replacement value). Lift the whole goddamned thing, at least north of Claremorris, and use the cash to close a couple of dangerous LCs or something.

dowlingm · 04-07-2014 4:41am

Copyerselveson wrote: »

the damage isn't just the lifting of the rails it's the whole track panels that will need replacing, regardless of whether the line is in use or not. €5,000 would not cover the real cost of this particular theft.

perhaps his Honour thought IE wouldn't be in any rush reinstating the panels, instead letting the 5 grand rest in their account?

corktina · 04-07-2014 5:22am

dowlingm wrote: »

What this highlights is that how much money CIE is leaving rusting in the ground (allowing for scrap vs replacement value). Lift the whole goddamned thing, at least north of Claremorris, and use the cash to close a couple of dangerous LCs or something.

probably al the scrap value would be eaten away by the cost of lifting

dowlingm · 04-07-2014 5:26am

corktina wrote: »

probably al the scrap value would be eaten away by the cost of lifting

that fella seemed to think he could make the numbers work

Banjoxed · 04-07-2014 6:50am

dowlingm wrote: »

that fella seemed to think he could make the numbers work

Interesting that you find the theft amusing.

whisky_galore · 04-07-2014 7:54am

dowlingm wrote: »

What this highlights is that how much money CIE is leaving rusting in the ground (allowing for scrap vs replacement value). Lift the whole goddamned thing, at least north of Claremorris, and use the cash to close a couple of dangerous LCs or something.

T'aint gonna happen.
Too much political dynamite there, the phones will be hopping from rail supporters thinking they're being sidelined (pardon the pun)

dowlingm · 04-07-2014 1:41pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

Interesting that you find the theft amusing.

There is nothing in the original article that is "amusing" per se. I was merely replying to the notion that there was unlikely to be a net positive return from lifting the tracks. Clearly a proper disposal starting with a tender and including safe disposal of the sleepe... LOOK YOU'VE TAKEN THE GOOD OUT OF IT ARE YOU HAPPY NOW, YA KILLJOY YA?

end of the road · 04-07-2014 2:32pm

corktina wrote: »

what for? never going to be needed

no he'd just be paying the cost of the work as punishment for being a little thief, should have thrown away the key

end of the road · 04-07-2014 2:36pm

corktina wrote: »

probably al the scrap value would be eaten away by the cost of lifting

didn't seem to matter back in the 60s when they ripped up lines left right and centre, probably cost them more then they got

whisky_galore · 04-07-2014 2:51pm

end of the road wrote: »

didn't seem to matter back in the 60s when they ripped up lines left right and centre, probably cost them more then they got

Different times, throwing any babies out with the bathwater didn't seem to matter. That was the remit that Andrews got, modernise and turn the company around no matter by what means...motor transport was king, railways were 19th cent old hat...worse still they were built by the 'auld enemy', had to rip them up before the few concerned locals that could be bothered could organise themselves to mount a challenge.

Banjoxed · 04-07-2014 10:35pm

dowlingm wrote: »

There is nothing in the original article that is "amusing" per se. I was merely replying to the notion that there was unlikely to be a net positive return from lifting the tracks. Clearly a proper disposal starting with a tender and including safe disposal of the sleepe... LOOK YOU'VE TAKEN THE GOOD OUT OF IT ARE YOU HAPPY NOW, YA KILLJOY YA?

Well don't let me wreck your buzz.

dowlingm · 05-07-2014 9:13pm

Funny that these tracks must be left in situ but North Esk just got lifted :rolleyes:

dowlingm · 05-07-2014 9:19pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

A more apt condition in sentencing would have been requesting this guilty gentleman to pay the costs incurred in replacing the stolen track panels.

except the likelihood is he can't pay that, will end up in prison at which time IE gets nowt and the State pays a fortune to warehouse him.

SeanW · 06-07-2014 1:59am

dowlingm wrote: »

except the likelihood is he can't pay that, will end up in prison at which time IE gets nowt and the State pays a fortune to warehouse him.

Yes, that's what happens - you commit crime, you go to jail.

dowlingm · 06-07-2014 12:43pm

SeanW wrote: »

Yes, that's what happens - you commit crime, you go to jail.

I would prefer a system where you commit crime and you get punishment which doesn't cause more problems than it solves. In this example, if this person was imprisoned then the taxpayer is punished on the double, since a State company has had nominal assets damaged without compensation and the State itself must pay for imprisonment.

Better to remove the market for such theft by making it clearer to scrap merchants that failure to verify the bona files of railway debris they receive will be an expensive error. But we shouldn't also pretend that in order for IE to run trains again that that panel wouldn't probably have been ripped and replaced, making its current value only that of a scrap scenario anyway, leaving the issue more about deterrence than restitution. To my mind, this was reflected by the beak imposing a prison sentence based on nominal value of replaced panels to stop people hacking at active or temporarily dormant lines, but a fine which reflected the actual loss to the railway at this point in time.

whisky_galore · 07-07-2014 10:06am

dowlingm wrote: »

Better to remove the market for such theft by making it clearer to scrap merchants that failure to verify the bona files of railway debris they receive will be an expensive error

No.
Not good enough. End cash in hand payments.

Losty Dublin · 07-07-2014 11:04am

dowlingm wrote: »

I would prefer a system where you commit crime and you get punishment which doesn't cause more problems than it solves. In this example, if this person was imprisoned then the taxpayer is punished on the double, since a State company has had nominal assets damaged without compensation and the State itself must pay for imprisonment..

When you go around stealing and causing €30,000 worth of damage to somebody elses property you'd expect a lot more than the option of €5,000 to be offered up in lieu. To the dishonest scrapman it just screams steal me as the odds are most definitely in your favour.

metrovick001 · 07-07-2014 4:59pm

Isn't that Ireland in a nutshell?

Losty Dublin wrote: »

When you go around stealing and causing €30,000 worth of damage to somebody elses property you'd expect a lot more than the option of €5,000 to be offered up in lieu. To the dishonest scrapman it just screams steal me as the odds are most definitely in your favour.

dowlingm · 08-07-2014 3:04am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

When you go around stealing and causing €30,000 worth of damage to somebody elses property you'd expect a lot more than the option of €5,000 to be offered up in lieu. To the dishonest scrapman it just screams steal me as the odds are most definitely in your favour.

Surely the calculation is scrap price vs likely restitution? It may be 30k to IE but surely that's not what you clear for the hot rails?

Losty Dublin · 08-07-2014 11:22am

dowlingm wrote: »

Surely the calculation is scrap price vs likely restitution? It may be 30k to IE but surely that's not what you clear for the hot rails?

If you crash into a car, your insurance pays for the cost of making good the costs caused by the crash and not just the damage to your car. Similarly here, there are more costs to make good the damage caused than just the residual scrap price of the rails and sleepers.

Judgement Day · 08-07-2014 11:52am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

If you crash into a car, your insurance pays for the cost of making good the costs caused by the crash and not just the damage to your car. Similarly here, there are more costs to make good the damage caused than just the residual scrap price of the rails and sleepers.

Are you implying that IE will actually replace the rails and sleepers?

Losty Dublin · 08-07-2014 11:53am

Judgement Day wrote: »

Are you implying that IE will actually replace the rails and sleepers?

Are you implying that they don't need replacing?

whisky_galore · 08-07-2014 12:07pm

Replace a few isolated stretches of track whilst leaving the rest of it unusable anyway.
Makes perfect sense.

Banjoxed · 08-07-2014 12:43pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Replace a few isolated stretches of track whilst leaving the rest of it unusable anyway.
Makes perfect sense.

Make the tealeaf rebuild the whole lot. That's what I call restorative justice

And it will annoy the road lobby no end. Win win

Note for the ironically challenged: The above is not to be taken entirely seriously.

Losty Dublin · 08-07-2014 1:33pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

Make the tealeaf rebuild the whole lot. That's what I call restorative justice

And it will annoy the road lobby no end. Win win

Note for the ironically challenged: The above is not to be taken entirely seriously.

Anybody who'd take it seriously is a right Coo-looney :pac:

dowlingm · 08-07-2014 5:27pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

If you crash into a car, your insurance pays for the cost of making good the costs caused by the crash and not just the damage to your car.

I agree, but this isn't an insurance policy where you pay for that coverage. I'm not a legal beagle but I think a judge might have a problem with IE seeking the track section to be, to all intents and purposes, restored to a better state than it was found in with all their costs covered.

pavb2 · 13-07-2014 2:35pm

Pity about all them disused railway lines they should turn them all in to cycle paths I think this already been done in Mayo Achill island if memory serves.

So proper punishment would be for this man to work on this project after all he is already familiar with diggers and railway removal equipment. Then let's take this a step further and get all the other offenders to chip in and give something back to society. Like a 21st century chain gang.

But never going to happen is it.?Apart from someone actually having the will to do it, going to be too many obstacles

Insurance, Human rights. Doing people out of a job Etc etc etc

dowlingm · 13-07-2014 3:48pm

I think we've seen with Job Bridge how Ireland can take a notionally good idea and utterly tear the @rse out of it.

The Diabolical Monocle · 13-07-2014 3:53pm

Put him in the labour camp til he generates 38000 net.

The Diabolical Monocle · 13-07-2014 3:56pm

Put him in the labour camp til he generates 38000 net.

Man used hired digger to steal part of railway tracks

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