Sky in Apartment Block - Planning

Sir Oxman · 10-12-2005 12:38pm #1

Hi

I received a letter from Dublin Council Planning Office stating I had put up a sky dish illegaly on the balcony of my rented apartment and I had to take it down within 30 days etc

Now, first off I did confirm with estate agent and landlord (verbally) a few times before I moved in if I could take my sky equipment from my old place and use it in the new apt. Both confirmed (verbally) that it was okay, no problems.
This was 9 months ago and since then I've bought a sky+ box outright, paid for the cabling (twice) etc, outlay between that and moving the dish to begin with about €600.

Two questions:

A) If I have to definitely remove it from its position affixed to the wall of the balcony, can I get some plinth made up that would hold it in place on the actual floor of the balcony (there are two clear panes of glass as the 'wall' of the balcony) Also would this be expensive?

Unfortunately, i do not have a written lease and although I did get verbal reassurances about putting up dish from estate agent and landlord, I do know this has no legal standing and is my word against theirs - landlord is actually very, very amenable and he is no hassle at all but the management company seem to be behind the letter/complaint.
There are signs up in apt block from management company that dishes are not allowed (these went up 2 months after I moved in...)

Anyone in a similar situation? I'd like to have some background experiences/advice to think about before I reply to the letter.
Thanks for any advice.

shabbyroad · 10-12-2005 12:45pm

there is a solution. if you do a little searching on this forum you'll find that some people have put their dish on a pole which is held firm in a concrete base. I think they got a simple container, filled it with concrete and put the pole in. This is something they can't get you for because it's not fixed to the building, is temporary and from your point of view if you move you can bring it with you.

don't waste your time going after the verbal assurances you got - it'll only annoy you and you can probably get the dish moved and setup pretty easily and quickly.

some others on the forum have experienced this problem in the past and have been successful in sidestepping management company rules.

jd · 10-12-2005 12:47pm

The satellite dish will have to be removed. The landlord would have agreed to abide by the rules of the management company when he bought the apartment. He is a member of the management company..

Sir Oxman · 10-12-2005 1:03pm

shabbyroad wrote:

there is a solution. if you do a little searching on this forum you'll find that some people have put their dish on a pole which is held firm in a concrete base. I think they got a simple container, filled it with concrete and put the pole in. This is something they can't get you for because it's not fixed to the building, is temporary and from your point of view if you move you can bring it with you.

don't waste your time going after the verbal assurances you got - it'll only annoy you and you can probably get the dish moved and setup pretty easily and quickly.

some others on the forum have experienced this problem in the past and have been successful in sidestepping management company rules.

Thanks to you both.

shabbyroad, was thinking the concrete plinth would be the quick and easy solution alright rather than annoying myself arguing a losing point with the management company etc

I'll go searching and get the job done, obviously it'll have to be something that absolutely keeps the dish rock solid in place.

jd - yeah, I guess landlord is part of mgmt company - its a lesson learned about verbal assurances though! Bah..

jd · 10-12-2005 1:12pm

One thing-they may not allow the satellite dishes even if it snot fixed to the wall. I think the rule is there to prevent visual clutter on the exterior of the block

Sparky · 10-12-2005 1:46pm

jd wrote:

One thing-they may not allow the satellite dishes even if it snot fixed to the wall. I think the rule is there to prevent visual clutter on the exterior of the block

thats like refusing you to hang a rug on the railings to let it dry.
its not a permanent fixture so i wouldnt see a problem arising.

and its possible to paint the dish aswell to mingle it in with the background.

Tony · 10-12-2005 1:52pm

get some concrete paving slabs in a garden centre and fix a mount onto these is the cheapest solution. You could also get a non penetratinf roof mount if you have the room, I think corksat.com have these, electroplus definitely do as do many uk sites.

Edit: sorry just realised who you are :-) paving slabs and a 2" ground mount will definitely work for your install, in fact cable ties to the grid on your balcony would probably be ok if you use enough of them.

watty · 10-12-2005 2:11pm

My daughter's apartment block does not allow dishes affixed anywhere.

1) Some use the Lidl camping dish clamped to rail. Presumably it vanishes and re-appears.

2) Chinese style gents seen climbing through skylight in stair well. The roof has about 8 dishes on it now. You can only see them from high up on other buildings. One guy has the coax drapped to the ground floor. Since that has been there 6months at least one presumes the management are happy as long as no-one falls off roof and sues them for not putting a railing ...

With a minidish a spare car wheel will work too. You can get them cheap in Scrapyard.

Mr Analoguesat has had some 90cm dishes sitting on his back lawn this way (they do tend to blow overr in storms as he didn't bolt them on!)

Treora · 10-12-2005 2:28pm

There is a solution that appears simple but is unfortunately difficult. The management company via your landlord can request a connection splitter to be attached to one dish.

There is the problem with the all the dishes already up there. And the fact that sky make money from the dishes, but apartment blocks in London have managed to do this. Sky gets the benefit that it potentially has more customers as the installation would be cheaper (only for sky) and quicker (for sky and the customer):v:

Painting a dish is not a good idea if you want to keep a good signal. :eek:

cgarvey · 10-12-2005 2:31pm

Just to make one point clear, if you got the letter from Dublin Council Planning Office, then that's nothing to do with what you have, or haven't, agreed with your landlord, agent, or management company. Most management companies have their own rules that prohibit dishes, but this is a planning issue which, IMO, is that bit more serious!

Most planning rules refer to permanent structures (which is why, for example, you see the guys holding the signs on Grafton street, rather than them being tied to the pole!), so you could seek clarification from the planning office, but I'd guess that they'd have little concern in persuing you if it was a temporary structure (and you made some attempt to hide it).

.cg

watty · 10-12-2005 2:41pm

Irish Apartment blocks idea of communal systems is a ropy unwatchable NTL or Chorus ANALOG feed.

There are apartment satellite systems. Some even allow multiple satellite access to each flat (though with a Digibox you only get Sky).

jd · 10-12-2005 2:57pm

Sparky-s wrote:

thats like refusing you to hang a rug on the railings to let it dry.
its not a permanent fixture so i wouldnt see a problem arising.
.

Our management company don't allow laundry to be to be dried in public areas-ie balconys etc.
Presumably because they don't want the place to look like corpo flats

lomb · 10-12-2005 3:03pm

i reakon a spare wheel with a pole bolted to it and the dish bolted to this at a fixed position. have a quick disconnect cable outside leading inside. take it in with u if ul b out for a while. if u move it the only think that will change is the rotation of it so its easy to alighn. just make some marks on the balcony, and on the wheel. no one can do squat to be honest..
overall its just another nail in the coffin of communal living imho.

Charlie · 10-12-2005 3:14pm

Even if you have to take it down, you have a strong prima facie case of estoppel. This would basically allow you to get all the money back that you have spent putting up sky in your house from your landlord. This is because a misrepresentation was made to you, which was intended to get you move into to apartment, to which you acted upon to your detriment.

lomb · 10-12-2005 3:18pm

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Multimo-Mobile-Satellite-Dish-LOW-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ8020097110QQcategoryZ76066QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.satcure.co.uk/accs/page17.htm
theres a few bits and bobs there, shouldnt be too much hassle or money complying with the planning enforcement notice. i think they threaten u with a 2 million euro fine if u dont comply or something ridiculous:D

Sir Oxman · 11-12-2005 2:58pm

Thanks to all for replies/advice.

I am going to phone Planning Office tomorrow and see how the land lies that way, maybe a bit of explanation of my situation may do some good.
I'll reply back here on the outcome.

Tony: If I have to go the route of taking dish down can I PM you about what I need to do re: paving slabs etc? Thanks

Again, thanks for all replies. Much appreciated.

Ulsterman 1690 · 11-12-2005 3:10pm

There are apartment satellite systems. Some even allow multiple satellite access to each flat

I reckon Managment companies should have to provide such a system before they can stop residents using their own dishes

Tony · 11-12-2005 3:46pm

delah wrote:

Thanks to all for replies/advice.

I am going to phone Planning Office tomorrow and see how the land lies that way, maybe a bit of explanation of my situation may do some good.
I'll reply back here on the outcome.

Tony: If I have to go the route of taking dish down can I PM you about what I need to do re: paving slabs etc? Thanks

Again, thanks for all replies. Much appreciated.

Please use email

shoegirl · 13-12-2005 11:57pm

jd wrote:

One thing-they may not allow the satellite dishes even if it snot fixed to the wall. I think the rule is there to prevent visual clutter on the exterior of the block

...as if any of these dogbox apartments were attractive in the first place....

yvry · 14-12-2005 6:05pm

Because in Holland they started the same way until one guy went in to the court and has said that in the law of freedom of press saids that everybody has the right to access any kind of news using any kind of medium, therefore if a war is going on the only solution to keep you inform about you country or whatever is the satellites news. That guy won the case and the builders owners had not choise anymore to stop somebody in putiing a dish. Otherwise they are illigal and keeping down the freedom of press, that is more important than how a building is looking after a few dishes has been setup. ( if somebody give the right to publish everything< I will publish it)
hier is the e.u law also for Ireland, they have to fallow the law of the e.u in this case. first in english and then in dutch is translate by google so a lot of translation fault. (I'm dutch/colombia)
Article 11, member 1, by the hand vest of the basic laws of the European Union, that has been devoted to the freedom of speech and information, rings: "Everyone is entitled to freedom of speech. This law am nourishing the freedom an opinion and the freedom informations or concepts to receive or to
provide, without interference of only public authority and unesteemed borders". Moreover article 19 fixed of the Universal Explanation of the rights of the man: "everyone is entitled to freedom of opinion and opinion. This law encompass nourishing the freedom, without interference an opinion and to
travel by train, to receive giving through all means and unesteemed borders, informations and concepts on and by."

Artikel 11, lid 1, van het Handvest van de grondrechten van de Europese Unie, dat is gewijd aan de
vrijheid van meningsuiting en informatie, luidt: "Eenieder heeft recht op vrijheid van meningsuiting.
Dit recht omvat de vrijheid een mening te koesteren en de vrijheid om inlichtingen of denkbeelden te
ontvangen of te verstrekken, zonder inmenging van enig openbaar gezag en ongeacht grenzen".
Voorts bepaalt artikel 19 van de Universele Verklaring van de rechten van de mens: "Een ieder heeft
recht op vrijheid van mening en meningsuiting. Dit recht omvat de vrijheid, zonder inmenging een
mening te koesteren en door alle middelen en ongeacht grenzen, inlichtingen en denkbeelden op te
sporen, te ontvangen en door te geven."
in english::::

Ulsterman 1690 · 14-12-2005 10:44pm

I cant understand why anyone in their right minds would buy an apartment in Ireland I mean theyre usually MORE expensive than an ordinary house (plus you have to pay an annual maintenance charge) and yet you miss out on the whole point of home owenership namely being able to do what you like with the place without some jumped up little nazi telling you youre not allowed to.

OK I know theres planning restrictions on houses as well but at least one can usually get away with putting aerials and dishes up (unless theyre five metres across or something)

DMC · 14-12-2005 10:47pm

Its either that, rent at a high rate or enjoy the wonderous delights of 4 hours or more per day in gridlock.

21st century Ireland, how are ye? ....

Sir Oxman · 17-12-2005 11:55am

Hi all, a little late in getting back as I was up to my eyes in work all week.
Anyhow, the planning office chap got back to me yesterday and is giving me another 3 to 4 months to comply.
At the beginning he sounded a tad 'pompous' to be honest, but after explaining to him he actually let slip it was a pain in the a*se and whoever (property mgmt ppl...) made the complaint ought to get a life but once they had received a complaint they had to act on it.

*I didn't know that all satellite dishes had to have planning permission! So anyone who owns their own house and puts up a dish can be hassled like this if someone anonymously makes a complaint to the Planning Authority!! (on the front of a building)Thats what yer man said...

He's sending another letter and one to the landlord, I think the landlord can apply for planning permission but its all academic as I'll probably be moving after March anyway, job depending.

Surprising how a little politeness helps things along (after his initial eh,pompousness(!) I didn't rise to the bait)

Still, as others have said in this thread, a little thought by the builders of these apartments wouldn't go amiss.

Thanks to all for advice etc

watty · 17-12-2005 4:43pm

As long as you don't need to cross a Bridge or go on Childers Rd or Dock Rd, Limerick is great.

I'm 10km from City Centre and it takes 10min normally or 15 min rush Hour.

Since new bypass I can bypass Childers via Golf Links Rd and get to/from UL in 20 min during rush hr.

Dublin was the pits though in 1987 when I lived there. Over 1hr each way to Ballinteer from City Centre.

Sky in Apartment Block - Planning

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