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Why no protests outside Montrose?

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  • 24-05-2010 9:22pm
    #1
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭


    We know the pull in shaping public opinions that broadcasters/media can have in general, and it is increasingly obvious as to which party those at the national public broadcaster are doing the bidding for.

    All very well being outside Govt. buildings, but I think the comfy consensus out in D4 needs to feel a bit of pressure too. If it can be done 'right' of course.

    Anyone else agree?


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    #2
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    steelcityblues wrote: »
    I think the comfy consensus out in D4 needs to feel a bit of pressure too. If it can be done 'right' of course.

    What, exactly, do you mean by 'right'?


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    #3
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    In a more co-political or general Ireland fashion, unlike what we have seen at Leinster House in the past month, with far-left groups clearly the architects of those events.

    The fact is we have a public service broadcaster who look like an effective water carrier for probably the most unpopular government in the history of state. I'm debating whether the cosy relationship can be challenged through a form of protest and would like to hear other contributions.


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    #4
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    The problem with the State Broadcaster is that their budget is controlled by the Government.

    I personally think that there is a severe lack of proper investigative journalism throughout the media in Ireland. An awful lot of what is published as stories has been massaged by spin doctors from political or commercial spheres. Half the time they get their facts wrong as well.

    What type of protest do you suggest. I protest my way by not watching or listening to any of their output.


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    #5
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    deadtiger wrote: »
    The problem with the State Broadcaster is that their budget is controlled by the Government.

    I personally think that there is a severe lack of proper investigative journalism throughout the media in Ireland. An awful lot of what is published as stories has been massaged by spin doctors from political or commercial spheres. Half the time they get their facts wrong as well.

    What type of protest do you suggest. I protest my way by not watching or listening to any of their output.

    Well, I am wondering if a street protest is the most effective. What are the chances they, along with maybe other broadcasters, could minimise the coverage if it did take place? Even programmes like LiveLine, which models themselves as free-for-all discussions carefully scrutinise the contributors beforehand.
    As long as thousands and thousands still tune in, it will be an uphill struggle.


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    #6
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    I've been an audience member on The Frontline and most of the contributors to that are taken away together so I guess there is an element of coaching going on. On saying that I did get to speak on the show myself (not shy me!) and did get to say my piece.

    Street Protests are only effective if there is a clear agenda that catches the imagination of a large number of people.

    The protests in town have largely failed because there are so many messages coming out of them and because there is no clear alternative being offered.

    The best protest against a commercial media organisation is to stop buying their service/paper or stop viewing or listening to them. Unfortunately with RTE we are forced into buying a TV license.


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    #7
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    deadtiger wrote: »
    The problem with the State Broadcaster is that their budget is controlled by the Government.

    I personally think that there is a severe lack of proper investigative journalism throughout the media in Ireland. An awful lot of what is published as stories has been massaged by spin doctors from political or commercial spheres. Half the time they get their facts wrong as well.

    Barely even a case of "massaged" - journalism is so underfunded these days that a lot of what appears in the papers is very slightly rewritten press releases.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #8
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Barely even a case of "massaged" - journalism is so underfunded these days that a lot of what appears in the papers is very slightly rewritten press releases.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    Yeah that's the 2nd generation of the hand fed "journalists" they're even lazier than the 1st generation.

    I suppose paying proper journalists wages is pointless when the masses are pleased by photoshopped pictures of Ronan Keating looking like one of the 3 blind mice as I glipsed in one of the red tops on a news stand earlier today.


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    #9
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    steelcityblues wrote: »
    We know the pull in shaping public opinions that broadcasters/media can have in general, and it is increasingly obvious as to which party those at the national public broadcaster are doing the bidding for.

    All very well being outside Govt. buildings, but I think the comfy consensus out in D4 needs to feel a bit of pressure too. If it can be done 'right' of course.

    Anyone else agree?

    Some form of study that would clearly indicate if bias exists, followed by where, how etc would be required beforehand, I'd imagine.


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    #10
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    deadtiger wrote: »
    Yeah that's the 2nd generation of the hand fed "journalists" they're even lazier than the 1st generation.

    I suppose paying proper journalists wages is pointless when the masses are pleased by photoshopped pictures of Ronan Keating looking like one of the 3 blind mice as I glipsed in one of the red tops on a news stand earlier today.

    I'm not sure there isn't a genuine and deeper-seated malaise in journalism than the purely 'cultural' issue - after all, I doubt anyone goes into journalism thinking "woohoo, I'll recycle corporate and political press releases for a living".

    If you routinely look at the online 'news' world, you'll see that investigative journalism is even less common than in offline media, despite the fact that those who maintain blogs and other online news/commentary sources are usually dedicated-to-obsessive. There's some good research where the material can be collected for free online (something mainstream media is poor at), but there's precious little else that isn't fed in from the traditional media, because nobody's being paid to do investigative journalism there either.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #11
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Nodin wrote: »
    Some form of study that would clearly indicate if bias exists, followed by where, how etc would be required beforehand, I'd imagine.

    Academia, or sections of academia, sometimes has an agenda itself! I don't think a person with an average intelligence needed a studyto show that the likes of MSNBC and FOX were biased outlets!


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    #12
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    steelcityblues wrote: »
    Academia, or sections of academia, sometimes has an agenda itself! I don't think a person with an average intelligence needed a studyto show that the likes of MSNBC and FOX were biased outlets!

    Unfortunately, that's not really an argument against needing a study to show that RTE is biased. A survey would at least tell you about the perception of bias, and survey companies agenda is generally to produce reliable surveys, and interpreting the results could be left as an exercise for the reader.

    Naturally, there is such a study - unfortunately, it's $30 for a copy, so I'll content myself with citing the abstract:
    The aim of this study is to give some systematic insights into how Irish media tend to report an election campaign. The main focus will be on their attitudes toward and treatment of the competing parties and candidates. Content analysis data from television newscasts and campaign stories in four of the largest newspapers is used to investigate three different forms of media bias: coverage bias, agenda bias, and statement bias. We find that Irish media tend to grant disproportionate amounts of coverage to the government parties, Fianna Faacuteil and the Progressive Democrats; the more prominent the coverage, the less proportionate it becomes. The extent to which media take the freedom to 'distort' party agendas in their reporting appears to depend on party size, campaign strategy and the acquired status and acceptance of a party amongst the political and media establishment. Most notable, however, is the predominantly negative attitude of all Irish print media towards political actors. Instead of a polarised partisan press, as for example in the UK, in Ireland we seem to be faced with a rather homogenous anti-politics bias.

    Interesting, but hardly suggests that Irish media is some sort of government running dog.

    Also, follow-up interview by Irish Left Review:
    In terms of agenda bias the approach of the most of the media outlets was relatively even handed with the agenda of the politicians often matching the media’s agenda and in terms of statement bias it was not that the newspapers were biased in their opinions and judgements towards one party over another, but that they had negative opinions about all politicians. Indeed, what seems striking about the analysis is that the media, while willing to give the incumbent parties a disproportionate amount of coverage, did so while displaying a distinct bias against all politicians.

    Original emphasis.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #13
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Never heard of that study before. Interesting!


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    #14
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    steelcityblues wrote: »
    Never heard of that study before. Interesting!

    Media and politics is his field. I probably have quite a short channel of communication to him, now that I think about it.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #15
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    steelcityblues wrote: »
    Academia, or sections of academia, sometimes has an agenda itself! I don't think a person with an average intelligence needed a studyto show that the likes of MSNBC and FOX were biased outlets!

    If you can't point to trends, facts and figures, then essentially all you're doing is saying "Youse are biased", without any concrete map of your complaint. That won't stand up to any sort of questioning.


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    #16
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Nodin wrote: »
    If you can't point to trends, facts and figures, then essentially all you're doing is saying "Youse are biased", without any concrete map of your complaint. That won't stand up to any sort of questioning.

    Do you think RTE are 'middle of the road' in their content then?


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    #17
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    Conveniently enough, only the other night I was on the phone to someone and mentioned, a propos of nothing, that one's view on RTE says more in my view about the person doing the critique than it does about RTE. Those who consider RTE little more than government lapdogs are more often than not staunchly opposition in one form or another, those who reckon RTE is doing a number on the government are probably hardcore FFers or Greens, those who reckon RTE is being controlled by the Trots must have more than once considered joining the PDs and those who reckon RTE are dead against the common man are probably more left-wing than they realise.

    I'm prepared to change that view with evidence but haven't particularly seen any to convince me otherwise. I'd need a bit more than effectively "those who reckon RTE are middle of the road and largely unbiased don't watch it enough" as a convincer.


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    #18
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    steelcityblues wrote: »
    Do you think RTE are 'middle of the road' in their content then?

    In a sense, but thats as bad as a bias in many ways. I often think that questioning isn't hard enough. On top of that, I think that the questions actually come from the "middle ground"/the same set of assumptions, that the political class work under.


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