Rogue US soldier went on rampage in Afghanistan, 10 civilians dead, five wounded!

Manic Moran · 11-03-2012 6:07pm

This isn't the first American spree killing and it won't be the last. It's not even the first by a soldier (See Fort Hood, or Sgt Akbar).

I find it interesting that in most such cases, such as Virginia Tech or Tuscon, most posters blame access to guns more than anything else, yet in this case because of the fact it's happened in Afghanistan, it's due to the inhumanity or brutality of being in the Army. BS. Soldiers are just like anyone else you will find on the street in the city, because that's where we came from.

Assuming this is fundamentally just another killing spree, albeit one with significant political ramifications, and there is no reason yet to believe it isn't, my first question is how he got off the base on his own to begin with.

Red Hand · 11-03-2012 6:12pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

...my first question is how he got off the base on his own to begin with.

He used the parts of his brain which concern themselves with spatial awareness, and locomotion so as to engage his legs, back muscles, abdominals and buttocks in the art of walking, which is technically a sort of "controlled, continuous falling".

Hande hoche! · 11-03-2012 6:16pm

They were probably more concerned with people getting into the base.

Manic Moran · 11-03-2012 6:17pm

Red Hand wrote: »

Manic Moran wrote: »

...my first question is how he got off the base on his own to begin with.

He used the parts of his brain which concern themselves with spatial awareness, and locomotion so as to engage his legs, back muscles, abdominals and buttocks in the art of walking, which is technically a sort of "controlled, continuous falling".

You've never left an American base in Afghanistan on foot, have you?

ctrl-alt-delete · 11-03-2012 6:25pm

Daniel S wrote: »

Back to 15 now.

At last some good news,

Hopefully the rest of them can make it back too.

Red Hand · 11-03-2012 6:26pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

You've never left an American base in Afghanistan on foot, have you?

Many a time with my stalwart soldier chums. We'd hop the wall, and run down to Farmer Mujahammideen's orchard and steal his apples, while his rosy cheeked daughter kept lookout. Then after a quick fumble in the hay with her, I would bid her "Adieu!" and run back up the hill to the barracks, laden with apples and high jinks.

Chuck Stone · 11-03-2012 6:27pm

Someone from 'our crowd' goes on a killing spree and people deem him insane.

How convenient.

If it was, say, an Arab in the US who went on a killing spree his sanity would not be in question.

KeithAFC · 11-03-2012 6:27pm

This isn't the first time a Yankee soldier has went on a killing spree of destruction and mayhem and it won't be the last. Afghanistan is now a mess. I hope the UK leaves the Yankee army to it.

karma_ · 11-03-2012 6:28pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

This isn't the first American spree killing and it won't be the last. It's not even the first by a soldier (See Fort Hood, or Sgt Akbar).

I find it interesting that in most such cases, such as Virginia Tech or Tuscon, most posters blame access to guns more than anything else, yet in this case because of the fact it's happened in Afghanistan, it's due to the inhumanity or brutality of being in the Army. BS. Soldiers are just like anyone else you will find on the street in the city, because that's where we came from.

Assuming this is fundamentally just another killing spree, albeit one with significant political ramifications, and there is no reason yet to believe it isn't, my first question is how he got off the base on his own to begin with.

There had to be motive for him, this wasn't just a random targeted spree, he had the wherewithal to walk off the base and not attack his fellow soldiers.

Todd Gack · 11-03-2012 6:31pm

Seachmall wrote: »

There are plenty of cases where they don't.

Howard Unruh
Charles Starkweather
Christian Dornier
Julain Knight

Not to mention these 2 nutters.

Martin Bryant

Anders Behring Breivik

Da Shins Kelly · 11-03-2012 6:37pm

What a f*cking mess. Why are they even still in the country?

Chuck Stone · 11-03-2012 6:56pm

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

What a f*cking mess. Why are they even still in the country?

It was a half-arsed job from the start. In the beginning they really did have an opportunity to 'nation build' but they blew it.

harmoniums · 11-03-2012 7:08pm

The bases in Afghanistan are dry, but a lot of the guys get drink from the locals, or get regular shipments of "mouthwash" from back home.

Either way, this isn't the actions of a drunk, these are the actions of someone who lost it totally.

Joko · 11-03-2012 7:08pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

You've never left an American base in Afghanistan on foot, have you?

He's not the first to walk off base. But he had better luck than Bowe Bergdahl.

Manic Moran · 11-03-2012 7:28pm

Joko wrote: »

Manic Moran wrote: »

You've never left an American base in Afghanistan on foot, have you?

He's not the first to walk off base. But he had better luck than Bowe Bergdahl.

You are correct, and it is unfortunate that the situation was allowed to repeat itself

Pacing Mule · 11-03-2012 9:29pm

Daniel S wrote: »

16 dead now

Daniel S wrote: »

Back to 15 now.

Jesus

Latchy · 11-03-2012 9:45pm

Burning of the Koran ,urinating on dead bodies and now a slaughter of Afghans by this individual .If the Americans were looking for ways to make their job much much harder and dangerous ,not to mention that of thier allies then these actions have only have help achieved that with more deaths of soldiers and civillians to come .Revenge will be on the minds of many Afghans and Taliban alike .

Wattle · 11-03-2012 9:53pm

AngryBollix wrote: »

What do people think happens in a warzone?

This wasn't a combat situation. This was one heavily armed soldier against unarmed civilians.

uncle_sam_ie · 11-03-2012 10:11pm

One guy doesn't sound so bad does it but,

This wasn't a lone stressed out soldier going on a rampage

It was more the one guy!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/11/us-afghanistan-civilians-idUSBRE82A02V20120311

"Neighbors and relatives of the dead said they had seen a group of U.S. soldiers arrive at their village in Kandahar's Panjwayi district at about 2 a.m., enter homes and open fire."
"They (Americans) poured chemicals over their dead bodies and burned them," Samad told Reuters at the scene.

Neighbors said they had awoken to crackling gunfire from American soldiers, who they described as laughing and drunk.

"They were all drunk and shooting all over the place," said neighbor Agha Lala, who visited one of the homes where killings took place.

"Their (the victims') bodies were riddled with bullets."

Killer Wench · 11-03-2012 10:38pm

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

One guy doesn't sound so bad does it but,

This wasn't a lone stressed out soldier going on a rampage

It was more the one guy!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/11/us-afghanistan-civilians-idUSBRE82A02V20120311

"Neighbors and relatives of the dead said they had seen a group of U.S. soldiers arrive at their village in Kandahar's Panjwayi district at about 2 a.m., enter homes and open fire."
"They (Americans) poured chemicals over their dead bodies and burned them," Samad told Reuters at the scene.

Neighbors said they had awoken to crackling gunfire from American soldiers, who they described as laughing and drunk.

"They were all drunk and shooting all over the place," said neighbor Agha Lala, who visited one of the homes where killings took place.

"Their (the victims') bodies were riddled with bullets."

I mentioned that earlier in this thread. There seems to be conflicting viewpoints of what happened. Thus far, people have taken the lone gunman thing and ran with it, but it still is too early to know what exactly happened. I honestly question how a lone gunman could have walked off a base alone and then kill 15/16 people and then turn around and walk back to the base.

Zebra3 · 11-03-2012 10:58pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

Soldiers are just like anyone else you will find on the street in the city, because that's where we came from.

Apart from the fact that they are trained killers, many of whom don't question their role in illegal wars, and are happy to murder innocent civilians and then cover it up with lies.

Please do not put me in the same bracket as such scum.

Killer Wench · 11-03-2012 11:02pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

many of whom... are happy to murder innocent civilians

Oh really now.

Guy:Incognito · 11-03-2012 11:32pm

Temptamperu wrote: »

well, thats what happens when you train people to kill people.

Funnily enough , there seems no shortage of untrained people going around murdering others too.

Some people are murderers, and some of those get jobs as soldiers. Who'da thunk it.

Firefox11 · 11-03-2012 11:48pm

Hande hoche! wrote: »

I'm surprised a US soldier has gone on a shooting spree against members of the ANA/ANP yet.

They are in a country where the general population hates them, there supposed Afghan allies are turning around and killing US solders. It's no wonder a few of them go nuts.

wingsof daun · 12-03-2012 12:54am

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

No alcohol allowed on bases in war time.

Aren't US soldiers given drugs to keep them sane over there? Maybe he put his pills down the toilet... the job in Afghanistan can be very demoralising and demanding which is an understatement. They are often left which flashbacks of the horrors they saw, for the rest of their days.

Zebra3 · 12-03-2012 1:21am

Killer Wench wrote: »

Oh really now.

Look at the massive number of civilians murdered by American forces over the year.

Few tears shed by them.

And that's without even touching on the torture.

Killer Wench · 12-03-2012 1:28am

Zebra3 wrote: »

Look at the massive number of civilians murdered by American forces over the year.

Few tears shed by them.

And that's without even touching on the torture.

I know many veterans who have returned home and many of them are dealing with the casualties experienced within their ranks and the civilians they came in contact with. I've known of soldiers who made personal connections with teenagers and young men and those young men are later killed by their own community because of their association with the military. It appears to me that you are speaking as someone who has read a few articles and have extrapolated the values and opinions of diverse group of personnel. You don't know what they have dealt with on a personal level so it is quite dangerous to accuse them of taking any kind of pleasure in the death of civilians.

Kirby · 12-03-2012 1:30am

minidazzler wrote: »

There are no bars in Afghanistan for soldiers AFAIK. I've heard they get like 2 beers each at Christmas, but that's it.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

No alcohol allowed on bases in war time.

Drink has very little to do with a case like this, however most soldiers have access to alcohol due to trading and a "black market" if you will. They don't need bars or pubs to get pissed.

Zebra3 · 12-03-2012 1:45am

Killer Wench wrote: »

I know many veterans who have returned home and many of them are dealing with the casualties experienced within their ranks and the civilians they came in contact with. I've known of soldiers who made personal connections with teenagers and young men and those young men are later killed by their own community because of their association with the military. It appears to me that you are speaking as someone who has read a few articles and have extrapolated the values and opinions of diverse group of personnel. You don't know what they have dealt with on a personal level so it is quite dangerous to accuse them of taking any kind of pleasure in the death of civilians.

Oh, so they murdered civilians and were then a bit sad afterwards.

And we all lived happily ever after. :rolleyes:

Manic Moran · 12-03-2012 4:17am

wingsof daun wrote: »

Aren't US soldiers given drugs to keep them sane over there?

Erm...

No.

Darksaga87 · 12-03-2012 4:24am

wingsof daun wrote: »

Aren't US soldiers given drugs to keep them sane over there?

Gooooooooooooood morning Vietnam!!!

RichieC · 12-03-2012 4:27am

Manic Moran wrote: »

Erm...

No.

I read the anti malaria pills they take can cause some to go a bit barmy.

policarp · 12-03-2012 4:36am

An Irish soldier lost the plot a few years ago.
That was on a peacekeeping mission.
Mr. Nally shoots first and asks questions after. . .
Moral is :-
No one should have weapons.

Adamisconfused · 12-03-2012 4:46am

Soldiers are people too. One lad flipped out and killed innocent civilians. They have a tough job to do and don't go thinking the world is some naive little place where we can get along with each other if it wasn't for those pesky trained killers. They do the tasks the rest of us don't have to even think about.

Manic Moran · 12-03-2012 7:03am

RichieC wrote: »

I read the anti malaria pills they take can cause some to go a bit barmy.

US hasn't used Lariam in a few years, now. The rate of side-effect was reasonably low, so much so that it was the defacto world-wide anti-malarial until very recently.

NTM

wilkie2006 · 12-03-2012 9:42am

karma_ wrote: »

Not the death penalty no. However, this was a clear case of premeditated murder, proved by the courts martial, a fair sentence would have been life without the possibility of parole.

Latchy wrote: »

Burning of the Koran ,urinating on dead bodies and now a slaughter of Afghans by this individual .If the Americans were looking for ways to make their job much much harder and dangerous ,not to mention that of thier allies then these actions have only have help achieved that with more deaths of soldiers and civillians to come .Revenge will be on the minds of many Afghans and Taliban alike .

Aside from the tragedy of 16 murders, the political fallout of this soldier's killing spree could be enormous. How many people from both sides will die as a result of retaliatory and counter-retaliatory attacks? As contentious as it sounds, I think that the army should hand the soldier over to the people in the village and let them do as they please. If this would appease the indigenous population's desire for justice then it's worth it. Why should the soldier - who murdered 16 innocent people - be afforded the compassion he withheld from his victims?

davetherave · 12-03-2012 10:51am

How do we really know that the houses he targeted were random and had "innocent" civvies inside? For all we know, he could have been out on patrol earlier that day and been hit up from those houses?

Where was that outrage bus when six British Soldiers were killed after their APC hit a IED last week? The turret flew 30 metres in the air, the vehicle flip over and was left burning. The QRF couldn't get to the scene for 24 hours, that's how heavy the fighting was. How much of a body do you think is left after been left on fire and smoldering for that long????

What is Karzai going to do about the cnuts that laid that one? Condemn the attacks? Fcuk that, it's his country, let him sort it out.

Just pull everything out and let them do whatever they want to each other....

wilkie2006 · 12-03-2012 11:12am

davetherave wrote: »

How do we really know that the houses he targeted were random and had "innocent" civvies inside? For all we know, he could have been out on patrol earlier that day and been hit up from those houses?

Because immediately after the massacre he went back to base and handed himself in.

davetherave wrote: »

Where was that outrage bus when six British Soldiers were killed after their APC hit a IED last week?

Well, they're hardly the same thing, are they? As sad as the incident you mention might be, that's one of the things that happens in conflict. The murder of three families in their sleep - along with their children - is not (or at least shouldn't be).

karma_ · 12-03-2012 11:49am

davetherave wrote: »

How do we really know that the houses he targeted were random and had "innocent" civvies inside? For all we know, he could have been out on patrol earlier that day and been hit up from those houses?

Where was that outrage bus when six British Soldiers were killed after their APC hit a IED last week? The turret flew 30 metres in the air, the vehicle flip over and was left burning. The QRF couldn't get to the scene for 24 hours, that's how heavy the fighting was. How much of a body do you think is left after been left on fire and smoldering for that long????

What is Karzai going to do about the cnuts that laid that one? Condemn the attacks? Fcuk that, it's his country, let him sort it out.

Just pull everything out and let them do whatever they want to each other....

It might be a good idea to read at the very least a couple of the articles that have been written about this incident, before you spout your ignorance over the internet.

Here's a couple of facts for your consideration -

The Taliban had not been spotted in that area for over 6 months.

He killed NINE fcuking children.

Maybe you can stop excusing a child murderer by hi-lighting incidents that have literally nothing to do with this one?

Kolido · 12-03-2012 11:52am

wingsof daun wrote: »

Aren't US soldiers given drugs to keep them sane over there? Maybe he put his pills down the toilet... the job in Afghanistan can be very demoralising and demanding which is an understatement. They are often left which flashbacks of the horrors they saw, for the rest of their days.

I have no sympathy for soldiers, they choose this profession.

...and before anyone says that they just want to help people, there are many charities that help people who really want help.

Nothingbetter2d · 12-03-2012 12:10pm

maybe he was sleep walking and thought he was playing battlefield 3

Seachmall · 12-03-2012 12:21pm

Kolido wrote: »

...and before anyone says that they just want to help people, there are many charities that help people who really want help.

Who do you think protect charities from militias?

Kolido · 12-03-2012 12:33pm

Seachmall wrote: »

Who do you think protect charities from militias?

Are there militia targeting local charities?

If yes I stand corrected.

Seachmall · 12-03-2012 12:38pm

Kolido wrote: »

Are there militia targeting local charities?

If yes I stand corrected.

Yes.

Also, do you believe local charities are the only ones worth supporting?

Kolido · 12-03-2012 1:01pm

Seachmall wrote: »

Yes.

Also, do you believe local charities are the only ones worth supporting?

There are many worthwhile charities, of course not just local. When I say local charities, I mean those in their home town or city in America.

The point I was trying to make in my first post is that if these guys want to become soldiers, they should realise it won't be all pretty and some of the horrors they do witness can be attributed to themselves.

Seachmall · 12-03-2012 1:05pm

Kolido wrote: »

The point I was trying to make in my first post is that if these guys want to become soldiers, they should realise it won't be all pretty

The same could be said for firefighters, doctors, police officers and charity workers.

and some of the horrors they do witness can be attributed to themselves.

"Themselves" personally?

Kolido · 12-03-2012 1:27pm

Seachmall wrote: »

The same could be said for firefighters, doctors, police officers and charity workers.

I agree absolutely, but firefighters, doctors and charity workers are not trained with firearms to kill people, even if they are the enemy.

Seachmall wrote: »

"Themselves" personally?

See topic of this tread.

12-03-2012 1:27pm

Kolido wrote: »

Are there militia targeting local charities?

If yes I stand corrected.

feckin hell the Taliban behead teachers & murder girls who go to school nevermind westerners working for charities so yes the western military forces are an important part of security for both education and charities in Afghanistan. They just need the ANA and ANP to hurry up and stand on their own two feet

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/docid/4b7aa9e6c.html

Between January 2006 and December 2008, 1,153 attacks on education targets were reported, including the damaging or destruction of schools by arson, grenades, mines and rockets; threats to teachers and officials delivered by "night letters" or verbally; the killing of students, teachers and other education staff; and looting. The number of incidents stayed stable at 241 and 242 respectively in 2006 and 2007, but then almost tripled to 670 in 2008.

In 2006 and 2007, 230 people died from attacks on schools, students and education personnel, according to Ministry of Education (MoE) figures. In one incident, dozens of schoolchildren and five teachers were killed when they lined up to meet an MP in Baghlan Province in November 2007

http://tribune.com.pk/story/251406/school-bus-attack-in-peshawar-kills-four-children-police/

Taliban insurgents ambushed a school bus on Tuesday, killing four pupils and the driver in a hail of bullets and rocket fire in Peshawar’s suburban Mattani area. Another 18 people, including four children, two of them seven-year-old girls, were also wounded in the attack.

Kolido · 12-03-2012 1:39pm

Deleted User wrote: »

feckin hell the Taliban behead teachers nevermind westerners working for charities so yes the western military forces are an important part of security for both education and charities in Afghanistan. They just need the ANA and ANP to hurry up and stand on their own two feet

Just to clear this up, when I mentioned charities in my first post, I meant charities in America not afghanistan.

Zebra3 · 12-03-2012 5:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

feckin hell the Taliban behead teachers & murder girls who go to school nevermind westerners working for charities

And American forces drop bombs on kids.

Look at what they've done to Iraq and Vietnam.

Huge numbers of kids born with defects (missing eyes, ears, etc.) from all the depleted uranium the Americans dropped on Iraq.

Agent Orange (a chemical weapon basically) sprayed over civilian areas in Vietnam.

There is no moral difference between the Taliban and American forces.

They are both pure evil.

Rogue US soldier went on rampage in Afghanistan, 10 civilians dead, five wounded!

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