Busáras - Not Up To Acceptable Standards

Ernest · 15-11-2012 6:22pm #1

Isn't it time that something was done about Busarus. This is supposed to be be the main long distance bus terminus for Dublin but it is a disgrace to the City - shabby (not refurbished for decades) uncomfortable and far far too small for the volume of long distance buses it is expected to handle. As long distance bus transport has increased substantially in recent years, most of these buses no longer leave from Busarus but from various ad-hoc points around the city such as Burgh Quay and Mountjoy Square which have no terminal building with facilities for passengers such as toilets, ticket offices etc.

I vaguely recall that there was a plan one time to build a new bus station for which CIE had accumulated a large land bank in or near the area now occupied by Temple Bar. This presumably was abandoned at some point but no alternative provided.

The present Busarus building was an award-winning one in its day and is generally considered to be of architectural merit but it does not have much functional merit, apart from its location - being near trams and some trains though perhaps not really all that near the very centre of the city.

Does anyone know if CIE/Bus Eireann have any contemporary plans to improve or replace Busarus?

The Maverick · 15-11-2012 6:53pm

Havnt been in it in a good while but remember it being a bit of a dump alright. With CIE's current financial situation, I would imagine there is absolutely zero chance of it being replaced, or even refurbished, for a long, long time.

I think Busarus is quite centrally located. Short of plonking it right down in the middle of O'Connell Street, I don't see how it could be made more central.

Judgement Day · 15-11-2012 7:08pm

The interior of Busáras has been 'improved' relatively recently but is still no great shakes as a bus terminal. Architecturally it's a non entity, designed by Michael Scott, a mate of Charlie Haughey, and was never fit for purpose. It's an office block with a bus terminal stuck in as an afterthought and how nobody has been killed boarding or leaving buses is beyond me - or perhaps they have and I didn't hear about it. There's no money for a new bus terminal so suck it up.

LXFlyer · 15-11-2012 8:03pm

Ernest wrote: »

Isn't it time that something was done about Busarus. This is supposed to be be the main long distance bus terminus for Dublin but it is a disgrace to the City - shabby (not refurbished for decades) uncomfortable and far far too small for the volume of long distance buses it is expected to handle. As long distance bus transport has increased substantially in recent years, most of these buses no longer leave from Busarus but from various ad-hoc points around the city such as Burgh Quay and Mountjoy Square which have no terminal building with facilities for passengers such as toilets, ticket offices etc.

I vaguely recall that there was a plan one time to build a new bus station for which CIE had accumulated a large land bank in or near the area now occupied by Temple Bar. This presumably was abandoned at some point but no alternative provided.

The present Busarus building was an award-winning one in its day and is generally considered to be of architectural merit but it does not have much functional merit, apart from its location - being near trams and some trains though perhaps not really all that near the very centre of the city.

Does anyone know if CIE/Bus Eireann have any contemporary plans to improve or replace Busarus?

Busaras has been refurbished with new seating, information desk and departure boards in recent years.

As for your contention that long distance services are no longer serving Busaras, you are incorrect. All of the services that depart from locations other than Busaras are much shorter commuter services, and not Expressway services, so the need for facilities is not that great.

None of them go from either of the points you listed, but rather Connolly LUAS stop, George's Quay, Custom House Quay, Beresford Place and Talbot Street, all of which are a short walk from Busaras if people need to go there.

The reason they have had to move is to fit all of the Expressway services into Busaras, so that those that need the facilities can use them.

As for more work being done on Busaras - I seriously doubt it given the rather perilous financial situation faced by CIE at the moment.

Wishbone Ash · 15-11-2012 8:21pm

Ernest wrote: »

This is supposed to be be the main long distance bus terminus for Dublin

All of those "long distance" buses leaving Dublin also depart from much more inferior stations when returning to Dublin. It works both ways. I'd have Busaras anyday.

Niles · 15-11-2012 8:34pm

Can't fault it on location, convenient to both the shopping/city centre district and the IFSC/Docklands areas. As pointed out the Commuter services termini are relatively close (within walking distance), as is the Luas and DART/Heavy rail services.

But if there is one thing I could fault it on it's the toilets (the gents anyway). Some of the cubicles have been in a state of disrepair for years.

Run_to_da_hills · 15-11-2012 8:40pm

Niles wrote: »

Can't fault it on location, convenient to both the shopping/city centre district and the IFSC/Docklands areas. As pointed out the Commuter services termini are relatively close (within walking distance), as is the Luas and DART/Heavy rail services.

But if there is one thing I could fault it on it's the toilets (the gents anyway). Some of the cubicles have been in a state of disrepair for years.

Toilets are disgusting and the terminal itself is full of flying rats, their feathers and droppings,

If I am getting the bus, I liker to get their shortly before it departs so I don't have to hang about the place.

foggy_lad · 15-11-2012 9:29pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Busaras has been refurbished with new seating, information desk and departure boards in recent years.

The seating has not been refurbished in years. It is awful and some of the rows of seats are broken off from the base.

The information desk was closed up completely recently and is now used solely by staff.

As with the seating the departure board is years old but does function quite well as long as staff are there to program it or load the schedules onto it.

The building is generally dirty and dilapidated and the main entrance doorway is a disrace as are the toilets which are downstairs are a health hazard and a favourite spot for addicts to take their drugs or have a wash etc.

Wishbone Ash · 15-11-2012 9:34pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

The seating has not been refurbished in years

They replaced the old wooden seating a few years ago.

foggy_lad · 15-11-2012 9:37pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

They replaced the old wooden seating a few years ago.

Did they? The seating that's there now is years old and wooden.

Cookie_Monster · 15-11-2012 9:41pm

It's always been a ****hole and that won't change, primarily due to the location and the clientèle that hang out there as a result.

High time O'Connell st was closed to traffic and used as a full scale terminus for both DB and BE routes, more central, more scope for connections, more space but that's not going to happen unfortunately.

monument · 15-11-2012 9:59pm

The Connolly Station (car park etc area) redevelopment plan -- which isn't likely any time soon -- could be adapted to include a large bus station at ground level. The site is very large in ground floor area. It could be made with good access to the Port Tunnel, the quays etc. But it would only work if transport was made central to the redevelopment of transport sites!

Story from last year on the Connolly site plans: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cie-pulls-out-all-the-stops-with-massive-connolly-development-2678714.html

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

It's always been a ****hole and that won't change, primarily due to the location and the clientèle that hang out there as a result.

Some undesirables tent to be attracted to bus stations around the world -- like the city centre's problems with drunks, beggars and druggies -- it all can depend on how it's handled. Sadly badly is the answer mostly for Dublin's northside.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

It's high time O'Connell st was closed to traffic and used as a full scale terminus for both DB and BE routes, more central, more scope for connections, more space but that's not going to happen unfortunately.

There's really not the space, it's alreadly too congested with buses and will be worse when Luas arrives.

admiralofthefleet · 15-11-2012 10:07pm

i would love to see it closed to buses, turned into an underground terminal with a link to a new bus depot on the outskirts near teh M50. that in turn would reduce traffic and waiting times in the city centre

will never happen and im now open to the inevitable slagging

elperello · 15-11-2012 10:20pm

The interior of Busáras has been 'improved' relatively recently but is still no great shakes as a bus terminal. Architecturally it's a non entity, designed by Michael Scott, a mate of Charlie Haughey, and was never fit for purpose. It's an office block with a bus terminal stuck in as an afterthought and how nobody has been killed boarding or leaving buses is beyond me - or perhaps they have and I didn't hear about it. There's no money for a new bus terminal so suck it up.

I agree with you regarding the maintenance and safety issues but in fairness to CJ and Michael Scott the building was opened in the fifties long before Haughey came to power and won an architectural award at the time.

etchyed · 15-11-2012 10:45pm

Not defending the place, as I think in many respects it's a mess, but the amount of inaccurate nonsense being spouted here is really quite something. I really don't understand how people's memories can be so short.

Busaras was refurbished six (at most seven) years ago. The floor was replaced, the seating was replaced, the mosaic tiling was cleaned up and lots of new lighting was installed, along with the construction of a new information desk and installation of new departure boards. The refurbishment was not exhaustive though, and there is plenty about the place that looks run down.

As has been mentioned, the toilets have got to be the worst part. IIRC the stainless steel cubicles etc. predate the refurb by a couple of years. They were never cleaned properly, the place has been stinking for as long as I can remember, and most of the fittings are now falling apart. It's grim.

foggy_lad wrote: »

...the departure board is years old but does function quite well as long as staff are there to program it or load the schedules onto it.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Did they? The seating that's there now is years old and wooden.

Once again, foggy, your inability to understand what's important astounds me. The seating is indeed years old, seven, to be precise, which seems a perfectly acceptable seat age to me. I'm not entirely clear on why it being made of wood is an issue.

On the other hand, one of the major problems with Busaras is something which you seem to think is fine. The departure boards don't work properly, and never have. They're on a timer, so they'll say that a bus is boarding at x minutes before the scheduled departure time and that it's departed at y minutes after. This almost never reflects what's actually going on with a service, and delayed buses that haven't even arrived at the terminal are regularly shown as having departed. I'm really not exaggerating when I say that I see people getting confused by this every single time I'm in Busaras.

Unlike you, foggy, I'm not someone who constantly criticises CIÉ for every error, minor or imagined. But information provision, one of the most fundamental aspects of running public transport services, is an area where bashing CIÉ is most definitely fair game. The departure board in Busaras, and the fact that it's basically useless and has been for years, is the perfect example of CIÉ's couldn't-be-arsed mentality towards public transport information.

The closure of the information desk is another indicator of the importance Bus Éireann places on keeping its customers well informed about its services. During the time that it was open, most of the staff who worked on it were incredibly rude. By contrast, the staff who work on the floor are (for the most part) quite friendly and easy to deal with.

Zhane · 16-11-2012 1:09am

They just need to get the toilets sorted. They are the vilest, most disgusting places on earth. I always said if I won the lotto I would pay for the refurb of the toilets!

gbob · 16-11-2012 4:19am

foggy_lad wrote: »

The seating has not been refurbished in years. It is awful and some of the rows of seats are broken off from the base.

The information desk was closed up completely recently and is now used solely by staff.

As with the seating the departure board is years old but does function quite well as long as staff are there to program it or load the schedules onto it.

The building is generally dirty and dilapidated and the main entrance doorway is a disrace as are the toilets which are downstairs are a health hazard and a favourite spot for addicts to take their drugs or have a wash etc.

For once foggy I'm going to agree completely with you.. except the seating was "upgraded" a few years ago, although I think there are less of them now.

But on the subject of bus stations, lets not forget about Galway station.. now there's backwards setup.

dowlingm · 16-11-2012 4:21am

Busaras should be handed over to Dublin City Council. BE, Aircoach and others can bid for slots with penalties for hogging the bays, with total revenue generally weighted to cost-recovery commensurate with keeping the place in good nick and some judicious passenger comfort upgrades.

CIE · 16-11-2012 9:40am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

It's always been a ****hole and that won't change, primarily due to the location and the clientèle that hang out there as a result.

High time O'Connell st was closed to traffic and used as a full scale terminus for both DB and BE routes, more central, more scope for connections, more space but that's not going to happen unfortunately.

They did that back in the tram days, without having to close the street. Remember that there used to be no centre median. The centre of the street could work. But then again, this is the same O'Connell Street that got cut down from eight lanes to four for no reason as well...

And enough of streets being closed to traffic; it is hell. I recall when North Earl Street and Grafton Street were both open to traffic, and frankly, I preferred them that way—especially when you had to use the 20/A/B from Beaumont into town and you got diverted up to Cathal Brugha Street via Lower Gardiner Street and Sean MacDermott Street (and originally, they tried running via Buckingham Street onto Sean MacDermott, but there must've been complaints about not stopping on Talbot Street). Close O'Connell Street off and imagine the mayhem coming off O'Connell Bridge and Westmoreland Street trying to all jam onto Eden Quay? (I'd even like to see Henry Street reopened to traffic; we could run the 83 up that way onto Church Street.)

Sponge Bob · 16-11-2012 10:02am

Sadly the area is overrun by smackheads and we can't blame CIE for that.

Oink · 16-11-2012 10:46am

Judgement Day wrote: »

Architecturally it's a non entity

I could think of other words. There should be a law against this kind of architects.

elperello wrote: »

[…]and won an architectural award at the time.

HA!
It must be good then. Not at all the puke-inducing piece of concrete and steel I thought it was.
(EDIT: not having a go at you btw elperello)

Niles wrote: »

But if there is one thing I could fault it on it's the toilets (the gents anyway). Some of the cubicles have been in a state of disrepair for years.

If only there were professional companies they could hire to clean up the place.
If the excuse is that CIE have no money, then I guess the place must have been very clean pre-2006, right?

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Sadly the area is overrun by smackheads and we can't blame CIE for that.

When junkies started camping outside my door I called the Guards every single time, and guess what, junkies stopped loitering. Who would have thunk.
So if CIE could be arsed doing something about it, things would change.

Wishbone Ash · 16-11-2012 1:01pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

The seating has not been refurbished in years

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

They replaced the old wooden seating a few years ago.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Did they? The seating that's there now is years old and wooden.

Here's a picture showing the old seating. That seating was not there the last time I visited.

LXFlyer · 16-11-2012 1:06pm

Oink wrote: »

When junkies started camping outside my door I called the Guards every single time, and guess what, junkies stopped loitering. Who would have thunk.
So if CIE could be arsed doing something about it, things would change.

With respect, the guards do not need to be called. They can clearly see the problem every time they step outside Store Street Garda Station.

To start blaming Bus Eireann for this is really stretching things a bit.

Oink · 16-11-2012 1:12pm

lxflyer wrote: »

With respect, the guards do not need to be called. They can clearly see the problem every time they step outside Store Street Garda Station.

To start blaming Bus Eireann for this is really stretching things a bit.

I get your point, but if Bus Eireann aren't bothered complaining, the Guards won't bother moving the junkies along.

It would only take one person in CIE who is bothered calling the Guards every time for a few weeks and then things will start happening. It worked for me, and it didn't take years to get it done.

CIE should be doing this on behalf of their customers. The same way they should be keeping the toilets clean.

Wishbone Ash · 16-11-2012 1:32pm

The toilets were always kept well when they had an attendant there full time.

I used to like the manned left luggage facility also.

Conway635 · 16-11-2012 4:08pm

€1.7m was spent on refurbishing BusAras a few years ago - details here:

http://www.collen.com/Conservation/Bus_Aras_Refurbishment.aspx

I do remember that at the time, the original refurbishment plans had to be scaled back following complaints/lobbying from the architectural heritage contingent.

I seem to recall there was even a thread on Archiseek at the time where people were mooting that it was far too valuable a historic building to be used as a mere bus station, and that the buses should feck off somewhere else . . .

C635

elperello · 16-11-2012 4:36pm

no offence taken Oink.
I'm no expert on architecture but if you can imagine the Dublin of the fifties Busaras was a pretty big deal and won a Gold Medal for Michael Scott. It was seen as a big step forward at the time and it is sad to see elements of the design rundown.

Follow this link for more info and a few archive photos.

http://www.irisharchitectureawards.ie/index.php/gold-medal/winner/busaras/

Niles · 16-11-2012 6:04pm

Conway635 wrote: »

http://www.collen.com/Conservation/Bus_Aras_Refurbishment.aspx

Interesting to note Iarnród Éireann listed as the engineer and architect, considering unlike some provincial bus station it's not a shared terminal.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Here's a picture showing the old seating. That seating was not there the last time I visited.

Fuuny, the exact same collection box is still there (moved up closer to gate 2).

Stonewolf · 17-11-2012 1:14am

Oink wrote: »

I get your point, but if Bus Eireann aren't bothered complaining, the Guards won't bother moving the junkies along.

It would only take one person in CIE who is bothered calling the Guards every time for a few weeks and then things will start happening. It worked for me, and it didn't take years to get it done.

CIE should be doing this on behalf of their customers. The same way they should be keeping the toilets clean.

About 7 years ago, when working for a private security firm, I spent a couple of months assigned to Busaras. The Guards did get called if there was a problem but, as someone else pointed out, they were well aware of the situation and weren't going to come running every time we had a hobo in the doorway. There is a severe limitation on what private security can do (and for good reason) so basically I walked around in a uniform a lot, kept a close eye on the undesirables and occasionally hassled them verbally to make it clear they weren't welcome.

Until we incorporate an actual transport police this is a problem that is not going to go away.

ProudDUB · 17-11-2012 2:30am

There is a methadone clinic around the corner on Amiens St, hence all the junkies and undesirables hanging around the area, hardly CIE's fault. Until someone has the balls to tackle these clinics being in the heart of the city centre where their...ahem...clientele's behaviour affects the lives of a $hitload of citizens, tourists & travelers going about their business, Busaras being a kip, is never going to change. Store St Garda station being across the road from it isn't going to make damm bit of difference either!

parsi · 17-11-2012 3:08am

Why would they get rid of the junkies ?

They are customers after all - if challenged they can present their golden pass.

foggy_lad · 17-11-2012 4:28am

gbob wrote: »

For once foggy I'm going to agree completely with you.. except the seating was "upgraded" a few years ago, although I think there are less of them now.

But on the subject of bus stations, lets not forget about Galway station.. now there's backwards setup.

The seats in busaras now may well Be only 7 years old but they look as if they were there from the 60's. Many of them are in a dangerous condition with the two metal struts they rest upon being worn from nutters and other assorted loons rocking back and forth on the seats until the welded base separates from the rest. At least three of the seats are broken and in two of them the area has to be cordoned off as the base of the seats which are bolted to the floor are a serious trip hazard for the litigious inhabitants of busarse.

Overall I would say the place suffers and has suffered for too long from the blight of CIE maintenance.

BrianD3 · 17-11-2012 12:02pm

etchyed wrote: »

As has been mentioned, the toilets have got to be the worst part. IIRC the stainless steel cubicles etc. predate the refurb by a couple of years. They were never cleaned properly, the place has been stinking for as long as I can remember, and most of the fittings are now falling apart. It's grim.

The stainless steel toilets were installed in late 1999 or 2000, I remember when they were opened and thought at the time that they looked relatively vandal resistant. I was wrong, within days the turnstiles and locks on the cubicles were broken.

AlekSmart · 18-11-2012 12:15am

parsi wrote: »

Why would they get rid of the junkies ?

They are customers after all - if challenged they can present their golden pass.

A document now greatly increased in value by the NTA's Fare Increases....:D

LivelineDipso · 18-11-2012 1:05am

BROADSTONE
BROADSTONE
BROADSTONE

when the Luas line is built.

Busaras should be for airport services only - too small.

Niles · 18-11-2012 1:14am

Is Broadstone that convenient to the city centre though?

Having to change to (and pay more for) a Luas on arrival in Broadstone won't be likely to encourage commuters. (Look at the unpopularity of IÉ's Docklands terminus versus Connolly, the nearby Luas connection doesn't seem to be doing much to encourage usage).

donegal_man · 18-11-2012 1:48am

etchyed wrote: »

......................................
The closure of the information desk is another indicator of the importance Bus Éireann places on keeping its customers well informed about its services. During the time that it was open, most of the staff who worked on it were incredibly rude. By contrast, the staff who work on the floor are (for the most part) quite friendly and easy to deal with.

Never a truer word spoken. I remember several years ago coming home for a holiday and asking the "customer service" representative on the desk the time of the next bus to Wicklow as it wasn't on the board, I received the helpful reply "timetable on the stand". The only bright spot was that my Canadian friends found the broad North Dublin accent the guy had so indecipherable that they mistook it for Irish

LivelineDipso · 18-11-2012 3:16pm

Niles wrote: »

Is Broadstone that convenient to the city centre though?

Having to change to (and pay more for) a Luas on arrival in Broadstone won't be likely to encourage commuters. (Look at the unpopularity of IÉ's Docklands terminus versus Connolly, the nearby Luas connection doesn't seem to be doing much to encourage usage).

Closer to the city centre than Hueston or Harrcourt Street and always was. Even more so now.

dowlingm · 18-11-2012 5:26pm

I'd be thinking more somewhere on the southside, with some buses originating from the north/northwest still dropping off/picking up near Busaras but continuing south of the river.

I'd see Broadstone as the location for transit-oriented development, not as was pointed out as a "Docklands" type setup where a station is put because of available land rather than service benefit - and you first have to figure out where DB current operations would relocate to.

Busáras - Not Up To Acceptable Standards

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