First Irish born Golden Eagle for 100 years found poisoned in Sligo

Birdnuts · 02-03-2010 10:00pm #1

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0302/breaking72.html

The first few days of spring and the same old problem in the West of Ireland with the activities of a handfull of sheep farmers rears its ugly head again. Reading the article its obvious neither the Dept of Agriculture or government give a dam:mad:

Alun · 02-03-2010 10:20pm

Surely it isn't exactly rocket science to determine whose sheep carcass it was and/or whose land it was found on? Same goes for the other cases last year. Were any actual prosecutions made in those cases?

Birdnuts · 02-03-2010 10:30pm

Alun wrote: »

Surely it isn't exactly rocket science to determine whose sheep carcass it was and/or whose land it was found on? Same goes for the other cases last year. Were any actual prosecutions made in those cases?

Despite the fact that stuff like natural heritage is the bedrock of our tourism industry, crimes like this are just not taken seriously by the authorities - if it was, throwing uncovered poison bait around the countryside would have been banned long ago as is the case in most advanced Western countries:(

marlin vs · 02-03-2010 11:23pm

Another sad day,hill farmer's are getting themselves some bad name, even if it is only a minority which I don't believe, they're living in the dark ages and still think that the eagles are the devill's in the skye's.

Birdnuts · 02-03-2010 11:56pm

http://www.goldeneagle.ie/news_viewnews.php?x=5&z=132&news_id=11&article=262

The above is the Irish Golden Eagle Trust latest Press release on this - scroll down to the section on the Irish Farmers Journal shamfull role in all this:mad:

marlin vs · 03-03-2010 10:16am

Today's paper.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0303/1224265502596.html

Connacht · 03-03-2010 11:18am

Conall, barely 10 months old, was recently found brutally killed in the mountains of the Sligo Leitrim border.

Not the first child of his kind to have his short life savagely ended in this disgusting way, serious questions must be asked of the supposed law enforcement authorities in this country and of those charged with the care of such a young boy.

How can people who poison the likes of Conall still be out there, rather than in prison, where they clearly belong ? How many people are there willfully poisoning their neighbours in this fashion ? How difficult can it really be to apprehend and punish severely those who willfully poison others ?

The communities in which this type of scandalous act of killing occur, whether Sligo, Leitrim, Kerry, or wherever, are small. Johnny knows Mick and Mick knows Billy. Get out and catch them and spare our society these criminals, who have no compassion, much less love, for those we share this island nation with.

But more questions :
How can Scotland and Norway continue to send their children to our shores, to be put up against this wanton destruction ? How can their governments allow the exporting of their defenceless sons and daughters to another country where, seemingly, nothing or not enough is done to protect them ?

Shame on Scotland. Shame on Norway. Most of all, shame on Ireland. I am disgusted by all three of you.

Alun · 03-03-2010 11:28am

Connacht wrote: »

How difficult can it really be to apprehend and punish severely those who willfully poison others ?

This was my point ... a poisoned carcass is found on farmer X's land with dead eagle nearby, farmer X is guilty, end of, no need for lengthy 'investigations' that lead nowhere, or bringing in Sherlock Holmes, or Poirot. Make a show case of him. Make sure every single person in the surrounding area knows who it was and what he did, and what the consequences of such actions are. Makes me sick.

snowstreams · 03-03-2010 1:59pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

http://www.goldeneagle.ie/news_viewnews.php?x=5&z=132&news_id=11&article=262

The above is the Irish Golden Eagle Trust latest Press release on this - scroll down to the section on the Irish Farmers Journal shamfull role in all this:mad:

Yes, the farmers journal should have been more responsible and at least mentioned tieing down and covering the bait to obstruct it from the view of passing birds of prey. It seems they dont even care

E39MSport · 03-03-2010 2:34pm

I just emailed the editor of the Farmers Journal and told him what I think of him and some of his customers. His email address is in the contact link when you google the Journal.

I also asked him to publish an editorial asking Farmers to stop the illegal slaughter.

doctor evil · 03-03-2010 3:46pm

Alun wrote: »

This was my point ... a poisoned carcass is found on farmer X's land with dead eagle nearby, farmer X is guilty, end of, no need for lengthy 'investigations' that lead nowhere, or bringing in Sherlock Holmes, or Poirot. Make a show case of him. Make sure every single person in the surrounding area knows who it was and what he did, and what the consequences of such actions are. Makes me sick.

So if a dead body is found in your front garden you are automatically the murderer?

Alun · 03-03-2010 3:54pm

doctor evil wrote: »

So if a dead body is found in your front garden you are automatically the murderer?

No, but that's not really the same thing is it? Or are you suggesting that it's a normal thing for farmers to dump poisoned carcasses on other farmers' lands just for the fun of it? It may not stand up to the rigours of some smart-arse defence lawyer's arguments, but it's good enough for me in this case.

doctor evil · 03-03-2010 3:59pm

It is exactly the same thing.

From ingestion of the illegally poisoned carcass how long would it take for the bird to die? There is nothing to stop someone from trespassing and dumping, just look at fly tipping there are people that have no shame. *Where* on the farmers land was it found, was it in the middle or near a boundary?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 03-03-2010 4:03pm

Disgusted as I am by this I'm not going to get dragged into this thread but I must point out that poisoned birds often die 5km or more from the source of the poisoning. Also, landowners are not always responsible. I have come across cases where the poisoning was by Gun Clubs and others.

Half-cocked · 03-03-2010 4:11pm

Josephine Thankful Ice-skate wrote: »

Disgusted as I am by this I'm not going to get dragged into this thread but I must point out that poisoned birds often die 5km or more from the source of the poisoning. Also, landowners are not always responsible. I have come across cases where the poisoning was by Gun Clubs and others.

And quite a lot of uplands are commonage, with several different farmers grazing their flocks on it.

The law is almost unenforcable anyway. I was talking to an NPWS ranger a while back who acted on a tip-off that some one was shooting protected Brent geese. Although the culprit was caught with a shotgun and several dead geese, he could not be prosecuted because no witness had actualy seen him shoot at and kill a goose. Being in posession a licensed gun and claiming to have picked up a few dead geese that some one else had shot was enough of a story to evade justice. I'd imagine the poisoner(s) in the eagle case would have to be caught red handed spiking the carcass and then leaving it unattended for any prosecution to be brought:mad:

Alun · 03-03-2010 4:28pm

doctor evil wrote: »

From ingestion of the illegally poisoned carcass how long would it take for the bird to die? There is nothing to stop someone from trespassing and dumping, just look at fly tipping there are people that have no shame. *Where* on the farmers land was it found, was it in the middle or near a boundary?

In this case, I don't know, but in a previous case the body of the eagle was found within a few metres of a poisoned carcass, but the I suppose it would then be argued that you couldn't actually prove that it was that particular carcass that caused the demise of that particular bird. Sometimes the law is indeed an ass as Dickens' Mr. Bumble rightly said.

Kess73 · 03-03-2010 4:33pm

In this case it should not be too hard to pinpoint where the bird was poisoned though.

The bird had an electronic tracker on it which can show the exact movements and locations. of the bird.

Should not be too hard to take the bird's final resting place and work back the short distance to where it last fed.

From what I understand, the poison involved would have been fairly quick to bring the bird down, so most likely he fell a few km from where he fed.

So the tracker will show him stopping for the last time, it will show the short flight to that point, and more importantly it will show the bird stopping to feed before that last flight.

Personally speaking any farmer caught putting out a poisoned carcass on his own lands should be hit with the full weight of the law, as it would kill anything that went near the carcass, and in turn anything that fed on the animal that fed on the carcass and so on.

I would also go as far as to say that any found guilty should lose the right to any grants, tax reliefs, or subsidies, because if they are capable of being that irresponsible to any wild or domestic animals that may be in the area, who knows what other short cuts they get up to.

Kess73 · 03-03-2010 4:34pm

Alun wrote: »

In this case, I don't know, but in a previous case the body of the eagle was found within a few metres of a poisoned carcass, but the I suppose it would then be argued that you couldn't actually prove that it was that particular carcass that caused the demise of that particular bird. Sometimes the law is indeed an ass as Dickens' Mr. Bumble rightly said.

Would imagine that it would be easy enough to prove that a dead bird was killed by eating some of the poisoned carcass it was found beside.

Would simply be a case of opening up the bird and matching it's stomach contents to the carcass, and matching the poison.

smelly sock · 03-03-2010 4:35pm

Probably ate down my local chipper!! Being serious though I can see where these people are coming from. If it were my lively hood I would have to take action aswell.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 03-03-2010 4:52pm

smelly sock wrote: »

Being serious though I can see where these people are coming from. If it were my lively hood I would have to take action aswell.

You've lost me there. Do you mean that farmers need to kill Eagles to protect their flocks? If so, it just shows the level of ignorance there is out there.:mad:

Kess73 · 03-03-2010 4:59pm

smelly sock wrote: »

Probably ate down my local chipper!! Being serious though I can see where these people are coming from. If it were my lively hood I would have to take action aswell.

And how were their livelihoods being impacted upon by the birds? Funny how the Golden Eagle can exist in larger numbers in other European countries and not impact upon the livelihoods of sheep farmers in the same areas as the eagles.

Also the Golden Eagle in Europe tends to be smaller than those found in North America, The American based Golden Eagles can weigh 18lbs to 20lbs which is up to 50% heavier than it's European counterparts.

greeneyedspirit · 03-03-2010 5:07pm

smelly sock wrote: »

Probably ate down my local chipper!! Being serious though I can see where these people are coming from. If it were my lively hood I would have to take action aswell.

'Take action'? You do know that eagles are scavengers? They're glorified vultures, eat things that are already dead (which is why they end up with the poison in their systems. Dead poisened bait, not a lamb jumping around that's snatched by the bird).

I'm terribly saddenend by this news - it's ridiculous how people can just get away with killing off these magnificient birds. And the fact that the farmer's journal even endorsed laying poisoned bait is horrific. Simply covering the poisoned bait would render it a lot less visible/invisible to passing birds of prey.

johngalway · 03-03-2010 5:08pm

Alun wrote: »

This was my point ... a poisoned carcass is found on farmer X's land with dead eagle nearby, farmer X is guilty

For someone talking so much about law and legalities you know SFA about it. Your statement may be good enough for your own biased mind, thankfully more balanced and rational thinking people are involved with our laws and their enforcement.

I hope your X thousand other posts are of considerable higher quality than the above ill thought out tripe.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 03-03-2010 5:09pm

utter scum.

As its near impossible to prosecute they'll only listen to retalitory attacks - perhaps they'd stop if their eu grants were dependent on eagles not being poisoned.

Alun · 03-03-2010 5:27pm

johngalway wrote: »

For someone talking so much about law and legalities you know SFA about it. Your statement may be good enough for your own biased mind, thankfully more balanced and rational thinking people are involved with our laws and their enforcement.

I hope your X thousand other posts are of considerable higher quality than the above ill thought out tripe.

I never said I knew anything about the law, merely expressing the frustration I and many others experience when offences like this go unpunished because the burden of proof is raised so high that it often proves virtually impossible to prosecute successfully.

So, instead of resorting to petty personal insults, why don't you give us your esteemed opinion on the matter?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 03-03-2010 5:31pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

perhaps they'd stop if their eu grants were dependent on eagles not being poisoned.

Whose EU grants? Every farm in the area? Every farmer with animals on that commage? Surely only the guilty party and if they can be identified then the loss of a grant will be the least of their worries. The person, or group, who laid the poison may not be in receipt of any grants, as they may not be farmers (it has happened before).
Let's talk reason here and not, maddening as it is, just fly off the handle.

johngalway · 03-03-2010 5:35pm

Alun wrote: »

I never said I knew anything about the law, merely expressing the frustration I and many others experience when offences like this go unpunished because the burden of proof is raised so high that it often proves virtually impossible to prosecute successfully.

So, instead of resorting to petty personal insults, why don't you give us your esteemed opinion on the matter?

If I had wished to comment on the incident I would have done so. You needed to be taken to task for silly statements like the one you made above. Proof is needed in this country to convict someone of a crime. As one poster said above, if some dead animal or person is found on your property, that does not mean you killed that animal or person. You would expect such allowances to be made for yourself in that case, but not others it seems.

If you're unable to back your own statements I would suggest you don't so easily attack others, they may actually have something to say about you.

snowstreams · 03-03-2010 5:57pm

Is there not a simple short term solution here. Farmers should just cover any bait they use with a tied down camoflaged net, or else just get a hunter to cull any problem foxes. If it is hooded crows they are after they could use non meat based poison.
I cant see any reason why a hill farmer would disagree with this solution?

Tester46 · 03-03-2010 5:59pm

snowstreams wrote: »

Yes, the farmers journal should have been more responsible and at least mentioned tieing down and covering the bait to obstruct it from the view of passing birds of prey. It seems they dont even care

But hang on, isn't the point that this type of poisoning is now illegal? So isn't the Farmers Journal actively advising its readership on methods of committing a crime?

Just like the head of the ICSA tried to cover up this disgraceful, illegal and backward behaviour by saying that the Golden Eagle Trust should have advised farmers in the Sligo area of the presence of the eagle and then they might have temporarily stopped their illegal activities - so now it's the Golden Eagle Trust's fault.

The only way to deal with these law-breaking farmers is to hit them where it hurts. Even though they wail and moan and whinge about how they are the unappreciated and underpaid custodians of the countryside, the reality is that they don't give two shi*es about the countryside if they can make more cash by abusing it. So, when an eagle is found poisoned, have immediate inspections of all farms in the vicinity. And any farmer caught will have his single farm payments removed for a year. Another poster has already pointed out that the stomach contents of a poisoned eagle can be matched to a poisoned carcass found in the inspections. That should be sufficient proof and avoid good farmers being unjustly punished. It'll stop the poisoning. No point appealing to the backward farmers' better nature - they don't have one.

If you want to complain to the people who matter (and you should) email:

Minister Environment - john.gormley@oireachtas.ie

Minister Agriculture - brendan.smith@oireachtas.ie

Editor, Irish Farmers Journal, Matt Dempsey - mdempsey@farmersjournal.ie

Go on, do one quick email now to all three, you know you want to

Alun · 03-03-2010 6:01pm

johngalway wrote: »

Proof is needed in this country to convict someone of a crime.

So, in a case like the one described, what level of proof would you consider reasonable to achieve a prosecution? It's hardly the kind of case where you're either likely to catch someone red handed or have witnesses, after all, so unless you accept a certain degree of circumstantial evidence, you're never going to prosecute anybody, and in that case what's the point of having a law that's effectively unenforceable?

greeneyedspirit · 03-03-2010 6:11pm

snowstreams wrote: »

Is there not a simple short term solution here. Farmers should just cover any bait they use with a tied down camoflaged net, or else just get a hunter to cull any problem foxes. If it is hooded crows they are after they could use non meat based poison.
I cant see any reason why a hill farmer would disagree with this solution?

That would be the start to a solution, yes. I have a feeling, though, that (some) farmers still feel threatened by the eagles and are convinced that they will take their lambs. So it's probably a fair amount of ignorance, combined with fear, that's keeping the farmers from taking simple measures like covering the poisoned carcass.

Tester46 · 03-03-2010 6:28pm

Alun wrote: »

So, in a case like the one described, what level of proof would you consider reasonable to achieve a prosecution? It's hardly the kind of case where you're either likely to catch someone red handed or have witnesses, after all, so unless you accept a certain degree of circumstantial evidence, you're never going to prosecute anybody, and in that case what's the point of having a law that's effectively unenforceable?

The answer is simple. If the poisoned bait found on a farm is matched to the poisoned bait in the eagle's stomach, that should be enough to "prove" the crime. The legislature can then reverse the burden of proof so that the onus is then on the farmer to prove that he is not responsible for the poisoned bait on his land.

This is done already for many other criminal offences, and can be done for this. If a farmer is worried about being unjustly convicted, he could pay for tests to show the dead lamb/afterbirth/other containing the poison did not come from any of his stock.

Alternatively, would the farming community agree to chemical tagging of all poisons bought by farmers?

I also would have thought that local communities (and the farmers themselves) would bring an end to this practice because as best it won't attract new tourists and at worst it might put many tourists off visiting the area. "Poisoned Eagles in Sligo" won't look good in the next Lonely Planet Guidebook.

snowstreams · 03-03-2010 6:43pm

greeneyedspirit wrote: »

That would be the start to a solution, yes. I have a feeling, though, that (some) farmers still feel threatened by the eagles and are convinced that they will take their lambs. So it's probably a fair amount of ignorance, combined with fear, that's keeping the farmers from taking simple measures like covering the poisoned carcass.

Hopefully the farmers from Donegal can show the benefit the Golden eagle has for keeping Hooded crows away. Apparently they are having better lambing seasons now in areas where the golden eagle live because there are less attacks on lambs from hooded crows.
The farmers Journal should be mentioning that in any future article on protecting Eagles.

Birdnuts · 03-03-2010 6:55pm

snowstreams wrote: »

Hopefully the farmers from Donegal can show the benefit the Golden eagle has for keeping Hooded crows away. Apparently they are having better lambing seasons now in areas where the golden eagle live because there are less attacks on lambs from hooded crows.
The farmers Journal should be mentioning that in any future article on protecting Eagles.

Exactly - The irony is that this eagle was fed as a youngster by its parents on the likes of fox cubs and crows which highlight the fact that these birds are very much the farmers friend. Reading the papers today it really is shocking that it increasingly appears that over half the 53 eagles released in Donegal appear to have been lost to human persecution - with poisoning being the main culprit. Seems that elements of the farming community in the West are still living in the Dark ages despite in many cases getting most of their income from the Irish and EU taxpayer:mad:

Birdnuts · 03-03-2010 7:49pm

Tester46 wrote: »

But hang on, isn't the point that this type of poisoning is now illegal? So isn't the Farmers Journal actively advising its readership on methods of committing a crime?

Just like the head of the ICSA tried to cover up this disgraceful, illegal and backward behaviour by saying that the Golden Eagle Trust should have advised farmers in the Sligo area of the presence of the eagle and then they might have temporarily stopped their illegal activities - so now it's the Golden Eagle Trust's fault.

The only way to deal with these law-breaking farmers is to hit them where it hurts. Even though they wail and moan and whinge about how they are the unappreciated and underpaid custodians of the countryside, the reality is that they don't give two shi*es about the countryside if they can make more cash by abusing it. So, when an eagle is found poisoned, have immediate inspections of all farms in the vicinity. And any farmer caught will have his single farm payments removed for a year. Another poster has already pointed out that the stomach contents of a poisoned eagle can be matched to a poisoned carcass found in the inspections. That should be sufficient proof and avoid good farmers being unjustly punished. It'll stop the poisoning. No point appealing to the backward farmers' better nature - they don't have one.

If you want to complain to the people who matter (and you should) email:

Minister Environment - john.gormley@oireachtas.ie

Minister Agriculture - brendan.smith@oireachtas.ie

Editor, Irish Farmers Journal, Matt Dempsey - mdempsey@farmersjournal.ie

Go on, do one quick email now to all three, you know you want to

I learnt today that Birdwatch Ireland sent a letter to the IFJ calling on them to retract the disgraceful article in question - while they published the letter they have not retracted the offending article that has basically set back conservation in this country years if not decades

In light of this the pressure needs to be kept on the IFJ to do the decent thing - I've have already sent an email to Matt Dempsey that pulls no punches and will publish it when i get a response. I would encourage anyone who cares about this grave matter to do the same:)

Crann na Beatha · 03-03-2010 7:52pm

This post has been deleted.

Birdnuts · 03-03-2010 8:13pm

Iolar wrote: »

It breaks my heart to see such cruelty bestowed on such a majestic bird,why do farmers insist that these wonderful birds threaten their livelihood?

The same reason they wiped them out before - pure ignorance:(

Nerin · 03-03-2010 8:30pm

Posted an article about this on my site, then saw the email addresses, so sent all three an email:

To whom it may concern,

I wish to express my concern over the news that yet another reintroduced bird has been killed.
This news is sad news for those out there, that like myself, enjoy some of the rich beauty the Irish countryside gives us.
I find it very worrying that 10 percent of Irelands Eagles have been killed. The Irish Times reports that "In total, nine white tailed eagles, golden eagles and red kites have been poisoned in the last two- and-a-half years."
This is unacceptable.
The actions of a few, quite frankly idiotic and backwards, farmers have put the wonderful reintroduction project at risk.
Do the Ministers for Agriculture and Environment plan on taking any action?
The careless use of such poisons believed to be the cause of the recent Eagle death are widely condemned by both Rural and Urban dwelling Irish people.
Perhaps checking all farms within a certain radius of lands found to contain such poisons and acting accordingly (with fines etc) would be proper practice?
It is also to my dismay that a publication so widely read as the Farmers Journal would advise farmers to use "Alphachloralose placed in a dead lamb or the afterbirth" to trap foxes.
To quote Goldeneagle.ie : "This appalling advice on the unlawful use of fallen poisoned livestock, is indicative of a glaring disregard for regulations within a small sector of the Agricultural community and more crucially within the main weekly voice of Irish farming. "
I learn today that the Farmers Journal have not retracted the article, even after being notified just how wrong it was by Birdwatch Ireland.

I hope that my email, along with many others, will make you take some sort of action, whatever your position may be, as Minister for the Environment, Minister for Agriculture and Editor of the Farmers Journal.

Birdnuts · 03-03-2010 8:32pm

Nerin wrote: »

Posted an article about this on my site, then saw the email addresses, so sent all three an email:

Good stuff:)

artieanna · 04-03-2010 12:52am

I think things need to be levelled out here a bit.

Are Eagles a threat to sheep and young animals? Give me the facts please
I have read a few articles and would be inclined to think that there is quite a high risk of attack.

Even grey crows will pick out lambs eyes (fact) it has happend locally and its not nice.

If there is no threat to farm animals why aren't the local farmers notified of the release of the birds and sent the correct information to inform them of the risks or advising them that there is no risk.

Eagles are beautiful birds.
But the farmer must protect his own animals cattle, sheep, pigs or chickens, if they are at risk.

I also think posioning is the most despickable way of killing any animal because of the suffering caused.

I know very little about golden eagles like the majority of people. so why aren't people informed by the media etc when a release takes place???

If there are risks to farm animals then maybe they shouldn't be released?

I am just trying to get a balanced view, as alot of people feel the farmers don't care which is not the case. Don't tar them all with one brush..

Sorry for the long post....

Birdnuts · 04-03-2010 2:04am

artieanna wrote: »

I think things need to be levelled out here a bit.

Are Eagles a threat to sheep and young animals? Give me the facts please
I have read a few articles and would be inclined to think that there is quite a high risk of attack.

Even grey crows will pick out lambs eyes (fact) it has happend locally and its not nice.

If there is no threat to farm animals why aren't the local farmers notified of the release of the birds and sent the correct information to inform them of the risks or advising them that there is no risk.

Eagles are beautiful birds.
But the farmer must protect his own animals cattle, sheep, pigs or chickens, if they are at risk.

I also think posioning is the most despickable way of killing any animal because of the suffering caused.

I know very little about golden eagles like the majority of people. so why aren't people informed by the media etc when a release takes place???

If there are risks to farm animals then maybe they shouldn't be released?

I am just trying to get a balanced view, as alot of people feel the farmers don't care which is not the case. Don't tar them all with one brush..

Sorry for the long post....

In the nearly 10 years of the eagle projects in Ireland there has been no documented case of any live, healthy lamb or any other kind of livestock being killed by these birds - its simply a myth based on ignorance that eagles are a threat to sheep - there is so much sheep carrion on irish hills and mountains due to neglect, poor hubandry, overgazing, bad weather etc. that losses from other sources such as Grey crows are miniscule and certainly do not justify the action of the criminal elements behind these eagle deaths . Indeed there is strong evidence to suggest that Grey Crows simply feed on sheep/lambs that are already dead or dying and I've yet to meet any farmer who claims to have seen these crows actually set apon a healthy sheep and pluck out its eyes.

Indeed the only reason scrawny unfortunate sheep are put out to ek a living on Irelands boggy mountainsides is because this totally uneconomic activity is heavily susbsidized by the Irish and EU taxpayer which make the events of the last few days all the more sickening:mad:

PS: On the subject of information, both in Donegal and Kerry were many eagles have already been illegally poisoned farmers have been made well aware of the situation by a host of state agencies and publicity drives - most farmers in the West are now in REPS which is meant to promote environmental responsibiblity so this kind of gombeen attitude to birds of prey like eagles simply won't wash anymore

snowstreams · 04-03-2010 10:19am

artieanna wrote: »

I think things need to be levelled out here a bit.
.....
Even grey crows will pick out lambs eyes (fact) it has happend locally and its not nice.
....

I mention above in the thread that Golden eagles are known to keep grey crows away because the actively hunt them. They turn out to be a benefit for the farmer because there are less attacks on lambs by grey crows & so less lambs need to be put down.
I agree, that if farmers really knew the benefits involved & that the risks to livestock is non existent, then the poisonings would stop over time.
Donegal farmers have said that they have had their best lambing seasons due to the eagles keeping vermin away.
This needs to be more widely publicised, particularly by the Farmers journal after that disgraceful article it published a few weeks back.

Tester46 · 04-03-2010 10:55am

Like any effective measure, there needs to be a carrot and stick approach.

The carrot could include education on the benficial effects for farmers and the wider community of these natural birds of prey, continuation of the REPS payments, the ability of farmers and the local community to promote their area as "eagle country", etc.

The stick should be severe - loss of REPS/Single Farm Payment.

This should not be a farmer -v- conservationist debate. In this this case, it is in everyone's interests to have these magnificent animals successfully reintroduced. There is simply no downside.

Birdnuts · 04-03-2010 12:35pm

Tester46 wrote: »

Like any effective measure, there needs to be a carrot and stick approach.

The carrot could include education on the benficial effects for farmers and the wider community of these natural birds of prey, continuation of the REPS payments, the ability of farmers and the local community to promote their area as "eagle country", etc.

The stick should be severe - loss of REPS/Single Farm Payment.

This should not be a farmer -v- conservationist debate. In this this case, it is in everyone's interests to have these magnificent animals successfully reintroduced. There is simply no downside.

+1

greeneyedspirit · 04-03-2010 12:59pm

Tester46 wrote: »

Like any effective measure, there needs to be a carrot and stick approach.

The carrot could include education on the benficial effects for farmers and the wider community of these natural birds of prey, continuation of the REPS payments, the ability of farmers and the local community to promote their area as "eagle country", etc.

The stick should be severe - loss of REPS/Single Farm Payment.

This should not be a farmer -v- conservationist debate. In this this case, it is in everyone's interests to have these magnificent animals successfully reintroduced. There is simply no downside.

+1 - absolutely right. On the scottish Isle of Mull, they're making good money out of their eagles, and protecting them fiercly. Why can't we do that here?

thehairyone · 04-03-2010 2:13pm

Hi All,

Just after sending this email to both John Gormley and Brendan Smith, if you have time I would encourage you to send your own, feel free to use this as a template if you wish;

Dear Minister,

I am writing to you to express my shock and concern at the recent death of the Irish born golden eagle "Conall" at the Sligo/Leitrim boarder due to poisoning by Nitroxynil poured on the fleece of a dead lamb.

This has not been the first case of poisoning of reintroduced birds of prey in this country and has even led to bad press internationally and as of yet no prosecutions have taken place. This situation has damaged Ireland's reputation as a tourist destination and threatens Ireland's commitments made under the Convention of Biological Diversity to "Rehabilitate and restore degraded ecosystems and promote the recovery of threatened ecosystems, inter alia, through the development and implementation of plans or other management strategies".

Golden eagle, the white tailed sea eagle and the red kite are all listed under Annex I of the Birds Directive, in addition the golden eagle is red listed on the Birds of Conservation Concern in Ireland while the red kite is on the amber list. As such, these birds are in need of strict protection which is sadly not the case at the moment.

Ireland has been brought to task by the European Union in the past due to a lack of action on nature conservation issues with considerable cost to the tax payer. With cases currently pending and surely more to come due to this current poisoning debacle is it not time that the Government stopped wasting tax payers money and sort out these issues without the need for the European Union to intervene. Surely money spent solving these issues now would save money in the long run by reducing the need to pay legal fees and any associated fines that we may receive.

It is time for your Government to introduce strict and easily enforcable laws banning the use of all poisoned baits in the Irish countryside. The current situation is unacceptable and the lack of action shown by the Government is appalling. It is time we honoured our national, international and moral commitments to protect these magnificent birds so that they can take their rightful place in the Irish countryside and be protected for future generations to enjoy.

Kind Regards,

XXXXXXX
A Concerned Citizen

Birdnuts · 04-03-2010 2:29pm

thehairyone wrote: »

Hi All,

Just after sending this email to both John Gormley and Brendan Smith, if you have time I would encourage you to send your own, feel free to use this as a template if you wish;

Dear Minister,

I am writing to you to express my shock and concern at the recent death of the Irish born golden eagle "Conall" at the Sligo/Leitrim boarder due to poisoning by Nitroxynil poured on the fleece of a dead lamb.

This has not been the first case of poisoning of reintroduced birds of prey in this country and has even led to bad press internationally and as of yet no prosecutions have taken place. This situation has damaged Ireland's reputation as a tourist destination and threatens Ireland's commitments made under the Convention of Biological Diversity to "Rehabilitate and restore degraded ecosystems and promote the recovery of threatened ecosystems, inter alia, through the development and implementation of plans or other management strategies".

Golden eagle, the white tailed sea eagle and the red kite are all listed under Annex I of the Birds Directive, in addition the golden eagle is red listed on the Birds of Conservation Concern in Ireland while the red kite is on the amber list. As such, these birds are in need of strict protection which is sadly not the case at the moment.

Ireland has been brought to task by the European Union in the past due to a lack of action on nature conservation issues with considerable cost to the tax payer. With cases currently pending and surely more to come due to this current poisoning debacle is it not time that the Government stopped wasting tax payers money and sort out these issues without the need for the European Union to intervene. Surely money spent solving these issues now would save money in the long run by reducing the need to pay legal fees and any associated fines that me may receive.

It is time for your Government to introduce strict and easily enforcable laws banning the use of all poisoned baits in the Irish countryside. The current situation is unacceptable and the lack of action shown by the Government is appalling. It is time we honoured our national, international and moral commitments to protect these magnificent birds so that they can take their rightful place in the Irish countryside and be protected for future generations to enjoy.

Kind Regards,

XXXXXXX
A Concerned Citizen

An excellent email there - I will send it to family and friends for the purpose:)

johngalway · 04-03-2010 4:04pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

that losses from other sources such as Grey crows are miniscule........ I've yet to meet any farmer who claims to have seen these crows actually set apon a healthy sheep and pluck out its eyes.

Ignorance is a word you throw about quite a lot, yet you're guilty of it yourself by seemingly hating farmers you take no interest in the subject and spend no time asking.

I've had tongues and eyes of healthy, but defenseless, lambs and ewes picked out by greycrows. A heavily pregnant ewe rolled onto her back and could not right herself, the crows took one eye out of the side of her head. A young lamb had 3/4's of it's tongue pulled out by greycrows after it got separated from it's ewe and twin.

Ignorance, yeah, it's the right world alright.

knealecat · 04-03-2010 4:14pm

email sent to John Gormley.

I sugest everybody does the same.

anneboleyn · 04-03-2010 4:20pm

There's got to be ways of protecting animals that don't involve poisoning scarce birds of prey surely?

megadodge · 04-03-2010 4:55pm

There's got to be ways of protecting animals that don't involve poisoning scarce birds of prey surely?

Protecting what animals ?

Eagles don't prey on sheep/lambs !!

They will feed on carcasses, but when it comes to hunting, they DO NOT hunt sheep/lambs and among their regular prey are grey crows and fox cubs, both of whom ARE a threat to sheep/lambs.

I'm not attacking you 'anneboleyn', I'm just sick and tired of this ignorance in relation to eagles. It's this ignorance that leads to poison being laid.

And on that point, is it actually illegal to lay poison in this country ? I thought farmers could get permission in certain circumstances ? (which I think is morally reprehensible)

First Irish born Golden Eagle for 100 years found poisoned in Sligo

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