UK Championship 2014

antodeco · 07-12-2014 10:46pm

Being left handed helped him that frame!

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 07-12-2014 10:46pm

Tense stuff lads.

efb · 07-12-2014 10:47pm

jaysus some comeback!

Bruthal · 07-12-2014 10:47pm

antodeco wrote: »

Being left handed helped him that frame!

So did being good at snooker

GerB40 · 07-12-2014 10:48pm

147 win from Ronnie, I'm calling it now..

syngindub · 07-12-2014 10:49pm

never have a nail left after watching snooker. always the same

lycan238 · 07-12-2014 10:49pm

GerB40 wrote: »

147 win from Ronnie, I'm calling it now..

He has done it before in last seasons welsh open I believe.

Bruthal · 07-12-2014 10:50pm

GerB40 wrote: »

147 win from Ronnie, I'm calling it now..

Was just thinking that but I dont think he will get a break at all.

Speak Now · 07-12-2014 10:53pm

Cracking final now, hoping a kick wont decide it!

Bruthal · 07-12-2014 10:56pm

Whats bets he leaves a snooker getting out of this...

Bruthal · 07-12-2014 10:58pm

Im hoping o sullivan wins anyway. Anyone else?

Bruthal · 07-12-2014 10:59pm

Commentators talking like its won. Not yet.

tanko · 07-12-2014 11:02pm

Bruthal wrote: »

Im hoping o sullivan wins anyway. Anyone else?

Always like to see Ronnie win but some performance by Judd Trump.

Bruthal · 07-12-2014 11:02pm

Great to see his enthusiasm for it. Never a player like him for the game.

vienne86 · 07-12-2014 11:02pm

Ah great final!

syngindub · 07-12-2014 11:03pm

Well Done Ronnie,
Great Finish to the Tournament.

Bruthal · 07-12-2014 11:04pm

tanko wrote: »

Always like to see Ronnie win but some performance by Judd Trump.

Yes indeed. Like I posted earlier, not over rated at all in my opinion.

And if he irons out the few mad shots, which o sullivan himself used to have more of as well, he will be a serious force.

Ghost Train · 07-12-2014 11:07pm

Great come back from Trump was playing really well, good that it was a close match in the end

07-12-2014 11:19pm

Both of those players can be immensely proud of their performance tonight. Amazing how the right two players can make such a difference to a game. Absolute joy to behold. Id watch every single game of snooker if there was more like them playing each other. 19 seconds average time per shot apiece.

Borders no.2 · 08-12-2014 2:29am

Deleted User wrote: »

Both of those players can be immensely proud of their performance tonight. Amazing how the right two players can make such a difference to a game. Absolute joy to behold. Id watch every single game of snooker if there was more like them playing each other. 19 seconds average time per shot apiece.

It was superb stuff. Literally gripped to the telly this evening watching it. Wonderful occasion. There are always certain matches in all sports that look like they may be changing of the guard moments from the older generation to the newer one but Ronnie O'Sullivan dug it out in the end.

The break a couple of years back seems to have re-invigorated him. He can claim he doesn't like the game, only going back to pay the bills etc. but we haven't heard much of that of late. The fist pumps for the decisive pots in that final frame told you all you need to know.

I think his genius will only be fully recognised when he's retired and I don't see him as a player who'll hang around when his form does inevitably dip so as someone who just takes absolute pleasure as a neutral from watching him play evenings like this evening are to be cherished before they are gone.

Trump looked like he just wanted to finish the game and get out of there at 9-4 but the fight back was mesmerising.

Great evening's entertainment.

Backstreet Moyes · 08-12-2014 3:22am

Cheese Wagstaff wrote: »

I'd buy into that. For me, the 5 minute maximum is the greatest single sporting accomplishment of all time. It's perfection.

Just from tonight he made a century and they said it was over 8 minutes. How he made a max in 5 minutes is just unbelievable nobody will ever get near that, The most gifted sportstar of all time for me can do it with either hand.

vienne86 · 08-12-2014 10:34am

Great tournament - renewed my interest in snooker!

The Golden Miller · 08-12-2014 5:28pm

Trump's downfall is that he still makes the same stupid mistakes that he was making 5 years ago, and it doesn't look like he's going to change his ways any time soon. And so he will continue to loose to the other few remaining top players in the big tournaments. It's beginning to get quite annoying watching it infact, especially if your rooting for him to win. I've never seen anyone as offensive as him, not even O'Sullivan. He goes for literally everything and anything, bordering on the complete ridiculous, even when he's been off the table for ages and has absolutely no momentum or real confidence in the shot. Yet goes for it anyway. I don't know if he's trying too hard to be the peoples champion or really is just that naive. The reality is he could have beaten O'Sullivan well yesterday, but all too regularly he would go for a ridiculous shot when he had no momentum, miss and leave O'Sullivan with the easiest of clear-ups. Even O'Sullivan, arguably the greatest attacking player ever, had the cop on not to take on certain shots, and play safe, even if it's against his better instincts. Trump needs to learn this, and refine his game in this regard, because if he did, he would be unstoppable. It's staggering the amount of easy frames he literally hands to opponents by leaving the whole table open after he misses a stupid shot. Granted, it's great to watch when he's knocking everything in and is confident, but all too regularly he misses alot of these long and extremely hard shots and leaves the table wide open for opponents to clear when he misses

Bruthal · 08-12-2014 7:06pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Trump's downfall is that he still makes the same stupid mistakes that he was making 5 years ago, and it doesn't look like he's going to change his ways any time soon. And so he will continue to loose to the other few remaining top players in the big tournaments. It's beginning to get quite annoying watching it infact, especially if your rooting for him to win. I've never seen anyone as offensive as him, not even O'Sullivan. He goes for literally everything and anything, bordering on the complete ridiculous, even when he's been off the table for ages and has absolutely no momentum or real confidence in the shot. Yet goes for it anyway. I don't know if he's trying too hard to be the peoples champion or really is just that naive. The reality is he could have beaten O'Sullivan well yesterday, but all too regularly he would go for a ridiculous shot when he had no momentum, miss and leave O'Sullivan with the easiest of clear-ups. Even O'Sullivan, arguably the greatest attacking player ever, had the cop on not to take on certain shots, and play safe, even if it's against his better instincts. Trump needs to learn this, and refine his game in this regard, because if he did, he would be unstoppable. It's staggering the amount of easy frames he literally hands to opponents by leaving the whole table open after he misses a stupid shot. Granted, it's great to watch when he's knocking everything in and is confident, but all too regularly he misses alot of these long and extremely hard shots and leaves the table wide open for opponents to clear when he misses

Maybe you should have given him some advice. And then he wouldnt have been hammered 10-9

Backstreet Moyes · 08-12-2014 7:17pm

Bruthal wrote: »

Maybe you should have given him some advice. And then he wouldnt have been hammered 10-9

Everything he said is true i don't see what point your trying to make.

That is the worst Ronnie will ever play in a final and Trump gifted him frame after frame. He got in first most frames and done something stupid allowing Ronnie to clear up.

Bruthal · 08-12-2014 7:29pm

Nuts102 wrote: »

Everything he said is true

I never said it wasnt.

i don't see what point your trying to make.

He plays the way he plays. As does o sullivan. Saying he is naive is easy from a couch. He is a snooker player playing against great players, not a robot.

That is the worst Ronnie will ever play in a final

He won it though. A few balls the other way and then trump would have won.

and Trump gifted him frame after frame. He got in first most frames and done something stupid allowing Ronnie to clear up.

He came from 9-4 down, to force a decider. O yes, but thats because ronnie was playing so bad. So he also gifted frames then....

The Golden Miller · 08-12-2014 7:50pm

Bruthal wrote: »

I never said it wasnt.

He plays the way he plays. As does o sullivan. Saying he is naive is easy from a couch. He is a snooker player playing against great players, not a robot.

He won it though. A few balls the other way and then trump would have won.

He came from 9-4 down, to force a decider. O yes, but thats because ronnie was playing so bad. So he also gifted frames then....

Yes he is a snooker player playing against great players, which also makes him a great player, which means he has the ability to play a smarter game. What does it matter who's saying it if it's true?

The point is when it was 9-4, Trump was gifting O'Sullivan frame after frame after getting in first and making ridiculous basic mistakes, because he wouldn't play a smarter game. He shouldn't have left himself in the position where he needed to work miracles.

To date, can you say that Trump has achieved much in his career, even for his age, considering his talent and potential? If not, why not?

Bruthal · 08-12-2014 8:07pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

To date, can you say that Trump has achieved much in his career, even for his age, considering his talent and potential? If not, why not?

To get to the top 16 is a fair achievement really. As is winning a uk championship and 2 other ranking events, a world final. Over 300 century breaks, a 147 I think somewhere.

Why has he not won more? Likely because of the number of great players around now.

Snooker is more interesting with players like him in it.

But it seems people just develop this expectation, and a player is a failure if they dont live up to it.

As for his talent and potential, they dont guarantee winning all they potentially could.

O sullivan himself has probably under achieved for his talent and potential, even though his achievements are considerable.

case885 · 08-12-2014 8:27pm

Bruthal wrote: »

To get to the top 16 is a fair achievement really. As is winning a uk championship and 2 other ranking events, a world final. Over 300 century breaks, a 147 I think somewhere.

Why has he not won more? Likely because of the number of great players around now.

Snooker is more interesting with players like him in it.

But it seems people just develop this expectation, and a player is a failure if they dont live up to it.

As for his talent and potential, they dont guarantee winning all they potentially could.

O sullivan himself has probably under achieved for his talent and potential, even though his achievements are considerable.

His shot selection isn't good enough thats what it comes down to.

The Golden Miller · 08-12-2014 8:32pm

Bruthal wrote: »

To get to the top 16 is a fair achievement really. As is winning a uk championship and 2 other ranking events, a world final. Over 300 century breaks, a 147 I think somewhere.

Why has he not won more? Likely because of the number of great players around now.

Snooker is more interesting with players like him in it.

But it seems people just develop this expectation, and a player is a failure if they dont live up to it.

As for his talent and potential, they dont guarantee winning all they potentially could.

O sullivan himself has probably under achieved for his talent and potential, even though his achievements are considerable.

So in a round about way, you agree that he probably hasn't won as much as he should/could have?

See that's the thing. If you are doing something that is costing you matches, and are still doing it 5 years later where it's still costing you matches, isn't it fair criticism? Going by your attitude of it being easy to point this stuff out from the couch, why bother discussing anything about any sport at all, unless we are all going to say great match, great players?

Bruthal · 08-12-2014 8:53pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

So in a round about way, you agree that he probably hasn't won as much as he could have?

Most players havent. O sullivan hasnt, ding hasnt, jimmy white definitely didnt, the list is a long one.

See that's the thing. If you are doing something that is costing you matches, and are still doing it 5 years later where it's still costing you matches, isn't it fair criticism?

It is. But all players do things that cost them matches.

Going by your attitude of it being easy to point this stuff out from the couch, why bother discussing anything about any sport at all, unless we are all going to say great match, great players?

It is easy to point from the couch. And it was a great match. And great players.

I never suggested not to discuss or criticise though. All players have weaknesses. Not all players, no matter what potential they have, are going to be winners.

He simply is not up there at the level of o sullivan, or what hendry or higgins were. Not to date anyway. That may simply be because of shot selection. Or it could be expectation pressure as well. But they are his weaknesses.

The shot selection can be improved, unlike weaker players who might have better shot selection, but just cant really get any better technically. So he still has great potential. Time will tell, but there are no guarantees.

Bruthal · 08-12-2014 8:55pm

case885 wrote: »

His shot selection isn't good enough thats what it comes down to.

Possibly.

The Golden Miller · 08-12-2014 9:15pm

Bruthal wrote: »

Most players havent. O sullivan hasnt, ding hasnt, jimmy white definitely didnt, the list is a long one.

It is. But all players do things that cost them matches.

It is easy to point from the couch. And it was a great match. And great players.

I never suggested not to discuss or criticise though. All players have weaknesses. Not all players, no matter what potential they have, are going to be winners.

He simply is not up there at the level of o sullivan, or what hendry or higgins were. Not to date anyway. That may simply be because of shot selection. Or it could be expectation pressure as well. But they are his weaknesses.

The shot selection can be improved, unlike weaker players who might have better shot selection, but just cant really get any better technically. So he still has great potential. Time will tell, but there are no guarantees.

The difference with Trump is that it really is an easy fix and glaringly obvious. Stop going for impossible shots when all odds are stacked against it, every time, leaving everything open when he does miss. Every player will make mistakes that will cost them no doubt, but he can minimize the possibility, like what most of the other pro's have done by identifying their weaknesses and working on it. Everybody has said this, from pundits to critics, and he refuses to address it, and 5 years later the same mistakes are still costing him in the most important matches.

case885 · 08-12-2014 9:19pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The difference with Trump is that it really is an easy fix and glaringly obvious. Stop going for impossible shots when all odds are stacked against it, every time, leaving everything open when he does miss. Every player will make mistakes that will cost them no doubt, but he can minimize the possibility, like what most of the other pro's have done by identifying their weaknesses and working on it. Everybody has said this, from pundits to critics, and he refuses to address it, and 5 years later the same mistakes are still costing him in the most important matches.

Has he a coach? If he does you'd have to wonder what hes being paid for because its pretty obvious what his faults are.

Bruthal · 08-12-2014 9:22pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The difference with Trump is that it really is an easy fix and glaringly obvious. Stop going for impossible shots when all odds are stacked against it, every time, leaving everything open when he does miss. Every player will make mistakes that will cost them no doubt, but he can minimize the possibility, like what most of the other pro's have done by identifying their weaknesses and working on it. Everybody has said this, from pundits to critics, and he refuses to address it, and 5 years later the same mistakes are still costing him in the most important matches.

Maybe he will address it. Maybe not. Next year he might have great shot selection, play more cautiously, and lose 10-4

Who knows.

The Golden Miller · 08-12-2014 9:27pm

case885 wrote: »

Has he a coach? If he does you'd have to wonder what hes being paid for because its pretty obvious what his faults are.

I'm not sure to be honest. And if he does, it's probably one hired to tell him exactly what he wants to hear. But that's just speculation. I've no idea.

In my opinion he's bought into the fact snooker is dying and that people are turning away and wants to be seen as the peoples champions like Ronnie and Jimmy White, credited for saving the game and getting people to watch by playing attacking and exciting snooker

The Golden Miller · 08-12-2014 9:33pm

Bruthal wrote: »

Maybe he will address it. Maybe not. Next year he might have great shot selection, play more cautiously, and lose 10-4

Who knows.

Well of course he'll loose matches. Everyone will. But to say it's because he plays a bit more cautiously on certain shots is ridiculous, considering he concedes the frame regardless when he misses these ridiculous shots. Playing more cautiously at least gives him a fighting chance in the frames that he otherwise loses by missing stupid shots and leaving the most simple of clear-ups for opponents.

I don't really see what point your trying to make or what you're trying to get at. Why bother replying if you've nothing to say except wait and see, who know's and sure they're all great lads

Bruthal · 08-12-2014 9:47pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Well of course he'll loose matches. Everyone will. But to say it's because he plays a bit more cautiously on certain shots is ridiculous,

Again, I didnt say that.

considering he concedes the frame regardless when he misses these ridiculous shots.

Not really. The opponent still needs to win it. Its not automatically over when you miss.

Playing more cautiously at least gives him a fighting chance in the frames that he otherwise loses by missing stupid shots and leaving the most simple of clear-ups for opponents.

Yes, its all simple.

I don't really see what point your trying to make or what you're trying to get at. Why bother replying if you've nothing to say except wait and see, who know's and sure they're all great lads

My point is, he has a playing style that got him to the position he is in. Playing in major finals.

And who does know? You? I posted that last night when lads had him written off at 8-4, and look what happened.

And.... Dont take it so seriously (my postings). Im only passing the time here posting.

Bruthal · 08-12-2014 9:49pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

In my opinion he's bought into the fact snooker is dying and that people are turning away and wants to be seen as the peoples champions like Ronnie and Jimmy White, credited for saving the game and getting people to watch by playing attacking and exciting snooker

And whats wrong with that?

Its not like he started off like terry griffiths, then seen an opening for a peoples champion, and suddenly became an all out attacking player.

case885 · 08-12-2014 9:55pm

Bruthal wrote: »

And whats wrong with that?

Its not like he started off like terry griffiths, then seen an opening for a peoples champion, and suddenly became an all out attacking player.

Hes neglecting his safety play and goes all out for the pot most of the time, ronnie, hendry and Davis werent like this and they have quite a haul of trophies.

The Golden Miller · 08-12-2014 10:01pm

Bruthal wrote: »

Again, I didnt say that.

Not really. The opponent still needs to win it. Its not automatically over when you miss.

Yes, its all simple.

My point is, he has a playing style that got him to the position he is in. Playing in major finals.

And who does know? You? I posted that last night when lads had him written off at 8-4, and look what happened.

And.... Dont take it so seriously. Im only passing the time here posting.

I'm aware the opponent still needs to win it. And 9 out of 10 times they will. You've handed them a needless golden opportunity, whether they take it or not isn't really the point.

Yes he is playing in a major final now and again. Point is he could also have been in last years world final and many more majors. Most pro's will tweak bits of their game when they get to the top to give themselves every opportunity to maximise their potential. 5 years later he still isn't doing it, despite everyone from journalists to critics to ex-pro's pointing out one glaring weakness that continually costs him on all the big stages including last night. Ye exactly look what happened, he needed 6 frames on the bounce and lost when it should have been 7-6 had he not taken on stupid shots.

Bruthal · 08-12-2014 10:03pm

case885 wrote: »

Hes neglecting his safety play and goes all out for the pot most of the time, ronnie, hendry and Davis werent like this and they have quite a haul of trophies.

O right, so now because the 3 greatest players the game has seen have a good haul of trophies, so should trump?

Could it be simply that he is not as good as they were, taking into account different eras etc?

Or are you saying he is as good as them, but just attacks too much?

case885 · 08-12-2014 10:25pm

Bruthal wrote: »

O right, so now because the 3 greatest players the game has seen have a good haul of trophies, so should trump?

Could it be simply that he is not as good as they were, taking into account different eras etc?

Or are you saying he is as good as them, but just attacks too much?

Did i say he should have more trophies? No.
I dont know if you watch much snooker but Trump is definitely a more talented player than Davis was, who is a 6 time world champion. What gives Davis an edge was he had superior shot selection and safety play. You cannot increase talent through practise however safety and shot selection can easily be improved with plenty practise and coaching.
I never said he hasn't won enough trophies but hes neglecting areas of his game that could make him into a great player.

Bruthal · 08-12-2014 10:45pm

case885 wrote: »

Did i say he should have more trophies? No.
I dont know if you watch much snooker

A fair bit. On tv and at the matches here, although not at them the last 10 years.

but Trump is definitely a more talented player than Davis was, who is a 6 time world champion. What gives Davis an edge was he had superior shot selection and safety play.

An edge over the players of his time.

You cannot increase talent through practise however safety and shot selection can easily be improved with plenty practise and coaching.
I never said he hasn't won enough trophies but hes neglecting areas of his game that could make him into a great player.

Yes probably. But that can be a weakness difficult to curb. Reducing the all out attacking and finding a balance may not be as simple as it seems.

case885 · 08-12-2014 11:06pm

Bruthal wrote: »

A fair bit. On tv and at the matches here, although not at them the last 10 years.

An edge over the players of his time.

Yes probably. But that can be a weakness difficult to curb. Reducing the all out attacking and finding a balance may not be as simple as it seems.

The only thing i can see stopping him is his obsession with pleasing the audience.
His cue power is the best in the business, i love his deep screw shots and exhibition shots but he just has to tone it down and be a smarter player. Ronnie wont have a lot of years left in him and when he does go down hill Trump could really dominate, his main competitors would be Robertson and Selby imo who are fantastic players as well.
He should look into Hendry mentoring him, he could really round off his game if they could work together.

Bruthal · 08-12-2014 11:16pm

Yea if hendry had an input, that would take him to the next level most likely.

UK Championship 2014

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