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New build - comparing 2 architects

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  • 21-07-2014 9:57pm
    #1
    mrsWhippy
    Registered Users Posts: 673 ✭✭✭


    Hi there,

    We're in the early stages of planning a house and have vetted a couple of architect firms, 2 of which we like.

    Our build is not going to be straightforward, the site is tight and there is an existing house which will need to be adapted in order to create space for the new one - all of which is coming under our budget. This issue at the moment is that we're not sure yet how much square footage we can fit in ourselves, and how much the adaptations will cost to the original house - if our house will be too expensive or too small, or if it doesn't fit our needs, we will not go ahead with the build.

    My current plan is to proceed with a feasibility study from Architect 1 which I will get among other things, a budget, outline plans for a couple of different solutions and 3D drawings of the solutions for the existing house. This will cost us a fee which is not unreasonable I think and should be enough information to know whether or not this project is a runner for us. Architect 2 will propose a cost for a similar task over the next couple of weeks and I'm thinking of proceeding with him for the same type of task.

    Do you think think this is the right way to proceed? I'm afraid this will be a waste of money but tbh I know that choosing the right architect is paramount to the success of our project given how tricky it might be! I think this should give us a good indication of the type of ideas/solutions they are going to propose, how easy they are to work with, and it will also give us a couple of different possible solutions for our site.

    I'd love to hear your suggestions and feedback!
    Thanks


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    #2
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    mrsWhippy wrote: »
    Hi there,

    We're in the early stages of planning a house and have vetted a couple of architect firms, 2 of which we like.

    Our build is not going to be straightforward, the site is tight and there is an existing house which will need to be adapted in order to create space for the new one - all of which is coming under our budget. This issue at the moment is that we're not sure yet how much square footage we can fit in ourselves, and how much the adaptations will cost to the original house - if our house will be too expensive or too small, or if it doesn't fit our needs, we will not go ahead with the build.

    My current plan is to proceed with a feasibility study from Architect 1 which I will get among other things, a budget, outline plans for a couple of different solutions and 3D drawings of the solutions for the existing house. This will cost us a fee which is not unreasonable I think and should be enough information to know whether or not this project is a runner for us. Architect 2 will propose a cost for a similar task over the next couple of weeks and I'm thinking of proceeding with him for the same type of task.

    Do you think think this is the right way to proceed? I'm afraid this will be a waste of money but tbh I know that choosing the right architect is paramount to the success of our project given how tricky it might be! I think this should give us a good indication of the type of ideas/solutions they are going to propose, how easy they are to work with, and it will also give us a couple of different possible solutions for our site.

    I'd love to hear your suggestions and feedback!
    Thanks

    if you are happy to pay for two proposals, I think it's a good idea. Quite apart from anything else one may come up with a solution which trumps the other.
    And I'd much rather spend some fees now rather than discover issues after a build starts on site costing much bigger numbers.

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    #3
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,701 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Good idea in principle. It may be a good idea, before going down this road, to get a fee proposal from each for the entire project, start to finish, to see how they compare?

    What if Arch No. 1 produces a great design, but his/her fees for the entire project are twice that of Arch No. 2's fees?

    You can't really then give Arch No. 2 the job and give him/her Arch No. 1's design and say off ya go with that?


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    #4
    4Sticks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    What if Arch No. 1 produces a great design, but his/her fees for the entire project are twice that of Arch No. 2's fees?

    Then Architect no 1 is best value. It is completely irrelevant what no 2 is offering if s/he is not giving you what you want. You don't save money by buying something you don't actually want.


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    #5
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,701 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    4Sticks wrote: »
    Then Architect no 1 is best value. It is completely irrelevant what no 2 is offering if s/he is not giving you what you want. You don't save money by buying something you don't actually want.

    Agree 100%...but as you are probably aware, for many people it comes down to who is the cheapest!


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    #6
    4Sticks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    Agree 100%...but as you are probably aware, for many people it comes down to who is the cheapest!

    Which is why we have this forum.
    To offer another point of view. ;)


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    #7
    mrsWhippy
    Registered Users Posts: 673 ✭✭✭mrsWhippy


    Thanks for all the replies. I'm so new to all this so it's really a steep learning curve and not sure yet 'what the done thing' is!

    For me, having an architect who has a keen sense of imagination and who can think outside the box is paramount - and I do believe you get what you pay for when it comes to quality of design. I think this should become apparent with some outline plans where we can compare like for like.

    I've been referring to this task as a 'feasibility study', i.e. just enough work for us to establish what can get for our budget and whether it's worth investing in. What does a proposal normally entail?

    Also, I expect that these outline plans will be what we will bring to our pre-planning meeting. Is it standard for an architect to attend also?

    Thanks a mil


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    #8
    mrsWhippy
    Registered Users Posts: 673 ✭✭✭mrsWhippy


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    Good idea in principle. It may be a good idea, before going down this road, to get a fee proposal from each for the entire project, start to finish, to see how they compare?

    How do you get a fee proposal? I think (have yet to confirm?) that Architect 2 works off a percentage fee. How is this calculated if the build size/type hasn't yet been established?


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    #9
    4Sticks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    It would usualy entail hand drawn skteches - to scale with dimensions. Not usually CAD drawings.
    Some architects are very skillful with sketchup so a simple 3D coloured model can sometimes be offered.
    You must ask your architect to attend pre planning - that is vital.


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    #10
    4Sticks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    mrsWhippy wrote: »
    How do you get a fee proposal? I think (have yet to confirm?) that Architect 2 works off a percentage fee. How is this calculated if the build size/type hasn't yet been established?

    Time charge. Can vary between €750-1500 depending on how much input is made. If you see that fee creeping up ask if it can be offset against the total fee should you proceed.


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    #11
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,701 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    4Sticks wrote: »
    Time charge. Can vary between €750-1500 depending on how much input is made. If you see that fee creeping up ask if it can be offset against the total fee should you proceed.

    Agreed...any fees paid now for an initial design should really be deducted from overall fees.


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    #12
    mrsWhippy
    Registered Users Posts: 673 ✭✭✭mrsWhippy


    Sorry I'm a bit confused - a fee proposal will allow him/her to estimate the TOTAL cost even if they will ultimately charge a percentage of the build cost?

    Edit: Is there anything I should be asking for specifically at this stage of the game? Outputs of the feasibility study/fee proposal? Anything which will further help me compare the companies?


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    #13
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,701 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    mrsWhippy wrote: »
    How do you get a fee proposal? I think (have yet to confirm?) that Architect 2 works off a percentage fee. How is this calculated if the build size/type hasn't yet been established?

    I would simply ask each architect what their fees would be taking the project from start to completion.

    Also bear in mind, if you are building a new house, that you will need to appoint a design and assigned certifier (which can be the architect, if they are registered). Important to clarify if this is included or excluded in overall fees.

    In addition, from a Health & Safety point of view, you will need to appoint a Project Supervisor Design Process (PSDP)...again, important to clarify if this is included or excluded in overall fees.


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