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Shoe shine stands.

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  • 19-05-2010 4:01am
    #1
    minidazzler
    Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭


    Hello there gentlemen,

    While bored tonight I got to wondering why shoe shine stands never seemed to either exist, or take off at least, in Ireland.

    I don't think I have ever seen one here, and actually thought for a second about starting one...good business idea around corporate area's.

    So, questions.

    Have you ever actually seen a shoe shine stand in Ireland? Ever used one, or would you consider using one? If you did, how much did it cost?

    A bit random maybe, but it's something I am good at, so been giving it some thought!

    So, thoughts, criticisms, ode's to the shoe shine boys that might have existed if only for the grace of whoever?


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    #2
    pwd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭pwd


    They have them at Dublin Airport.
    I would be averse to using them because I would think it demeaning for the person doing the polishing.


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    #3
    minidazzler
    Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    pwd wrote: »
    They have them at Dublin Airport.
    I would be averse to using them because I would think it demeaning for the person doing the polishing.

    You're paying them...demeaning?


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    #4
    Mackman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭Mackman


    I wouldnt use them. Not for any moral reasons, i just dont wear the type of shoes that would require shining :)

    As for my work shoes, for the office, i just polish them myself, doesnt take long


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    #5
    Red Hand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,986 ✭✭✭Red Hand


    minidazzler wrote: »
    You're paying them...demeaning?

    The shiner does kind of look at if he is kneeling at his employer's feet.

    Never seen one here, but they wouldn't have to kneel if shining my shoes. They would have to kow tow instead.


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    #6
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    pwd wrote: »
    They have them at Dublin Airport.
    I would be averse to using them because I would think it demeaning for the person doing the polishing.

    I disagree.
    But I can see your point.


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    #7
    OldGoat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,633 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    I'd use one occasionally if there were one around. If - for example - there were one outside the Waldorf Barbers on a Saturday when lots of men get their weekend haircut & shave I'd be happy to get a shine.
    I enjoy polishing my shoes. It's a bit of a Zen thing (or OCD, I'm not sure which) but I love bringing shoes to a mirror polish. :)

    As for this 'demeaning' idea, well thats just bunkum. The idea of looking down on a shoe shine, or a window washer, or a car washer, or a handyman of any discription is simply arrogant.

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



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    #8
    Snowie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭Snowie


    OldGoat wrote: »
    I'd use one occasionally if there were one around. If - for example - there were one outside the Waldorf Barbers on a Saturday when lots of men get their weekend haircut & shave I'd be happy to get a shine.
    I enjoy polishing my shoes. It's a bit of a Zen thing (or OCD, I'm not sure which) but I love bringing shoes to a mirror polish. :)



    Its not OCD man its meditation, your mind concintrates one one thing while the rest stays quite....


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    #9
    upmeath
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭upmeath


    Yeah the one in Dublin Airport is the only one I can think of, and Dublin Airport is only just about Ireland.


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    #10
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    OldGoat wrote: »
    As for this 'demeaning' idea, well thats just bunkum. The idea of looking down on a shoe shine, or a window washer, or a car washer, or a handyman of any discription is simply arrogant.

    i dont think it's the fact that they're a handyman that's the issue, or that anyone is looking down on them, rather it's the fact that they would be kneeling at your feet which could be perceived as a submissive/dominant interaction.


    and to feel uncomfortable at that is certainly not arrogant


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    #11
    OldGoat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,633 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    Sorry Sam, have to agree to disagree on this one. I read PWD's post as 'The job is demeaning' and that is just tosh.

    On the otherhand, if what you are reading into it, the submissive stance thing, then would a tailor, chiropidest, shoe salesperson also be demeaning positions and should we be adverse to using them also? :rolleyes:

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



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    #12
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    OldGoat wrote: »
    Sorry Sam, have to agree to disagree on this one. I read PWD's post as 'The job is demeaning' and that is just tosh.

    On the otherhand, if what you are reading into it, the submissive stance thing, then would a tailor, chiropidest, shoe salesperson also be demeaning positions and should we be adverse to using them also? :rolleyes:


    i think there's something uniquely submissive/humbling about kneeling at someone's feet and would avoid a situation where anyone would be expected to do that for me

    i have the misofrtune to go through dublin airport a lot and i shudder everytime i pass those stands


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    #13
    Snowie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭Snowie


    sam34 wrote: »
    i think there's something uniquely submissive/humbling about kneeling at someone's feet and would avoid a situation where anyone would be expected to do that for me

    No as a job its not submisive you genral no more and you can genrally swing a sale to what they need it for, Take snowboard boots or ski boots theres a lot going on when your getting fitted for them.

    as person whos worked as a ski tech whos deels with ski boots/snowboard boots i have got people saying they have gear that isnt fitting propperly or to tight or genrally the wrong peace of equipment,
    genrally costemors where coming to me because I know more because i get payed to do a job that not every ordinary person knows if i have to get down on my knees for 5 minites to make sure a clients gear is working right thats not submissive its called doing your job.

    id call your abovce statment nothing more then on a high horse snoberey!


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    #14
    Maguined
    Registered Users Posts: 8,247 ✭✭✭Maguined


    No evidence to back this up but I remember reading some article in some newspaper years ago, cant even remember what newspaper but probably the evening herald that apparently did a survey on the corporate dress code in most major European cities and apparently Dublin was rated as the most casual city when it came to formal office clothing.

    The least likely to have ties, the top button done etc etc so if that is true it would definitely be a reason why it never picked up here, no point in having the shiniest shoes in the office if you are still going in with no tie, no jacket and your top few buttons undone displaying your t-shirt underneath.

    Also location has a big factor, in lots of other big cities you can easily setup a stall because you have really good trains and underground transport systems so the major networking stops really drums up a huge number of the suited and booted as we are lacking this in Dublin you would not get as dense and centred a location for your client market.

    Personally I would not avail of the service because I would imagine they would try to generate chit chat like a taxi driver or barber would as part of their service and that would probably only lead to me ranting like a mad man about the sexist dress codes in most offices in Dublin where men have to wear formal slacks, shirts and shoes while the women get away with wearing mostly whatever they want, and there is only so many angry rants i can get away with a day, boo urns i say, booooooo urns!


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    #15
    SugarHigh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭SugarHigh


    I don' think their is anything demeaning about shining someone's shoes and people who would are probably just blinded by the negative associations we have of that job.

    It was normally done by very poor people who would have been looked down on by a class oriented society. I think people picture it as being something like this image instead of just looking at it as a practical service for people who like to looks smart.

    shineboy.gif


    Mini has said he enjoys it and is good at it so why would he feel demeaned by it?


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    #16
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    Snow-Monkey wrote: »
    id call your abovce statment nothing more then on a high horse snoberey!

    well then you're very very wrong.

    i am not a snob, far from it, and i resent being called one.

    to me, kneeling in front of someone is submissive or subservient. it's what is done to some royalty and heads of church, as a means of showing subservience. it's used in some people's sexual practices as a submissive gesture.

    that's what i associate it with.

    and that's why i feel uncomfortable with the thought of expecting anyone to do it for me.

    *shrug* you dont have to agree with my opinion, its only a personal opinion, but please dont call me a snob , as it's untrue and unnecessary.


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    #17
    OldGoat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,633 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    I can see your point of view but I just can't accept it. We differ in outlook on life I think.
    I see the Shines in the airport and think "Fair play to ya". I see them getting off their arses and doing something to constructive and positive in their lives. Give me a CV from someone who is working as a shoe polisher or someone who is just sitting at home collecting dole money and all else being balanced I'll employ the worker.
    I really don't see the humilation/submission thing at all.

    I'm trying to think of an analogous situation where I would be at the feet of someone else but I just keep coming up with an image of me at a church service (Shudder).

    The closest similar job I can think of is that of a pedicurist, someone who works at your feet all be it in a more glamourous surroundings. Does that cause people the same feelings of unease?
    to me, kneeling in front of someone is submissive or subservient. it's what is done to some royalty and heads of church, as a means of showing subservience. it's used in some people's sexual practices as a submissive gesture.
    To me I see it as the best way to get the job done. You can't nail down a carpet from a standing position. Kneeling at the feet of a customer is the most practicle way of getting the job done. :)

    Kneeling at someones feet does not have to mean showing deferance or submission (though I can see the fun in it ;)).

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



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    #18
    PK2008
    Registered Users Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭PK2008


    To be honest I could never see myself actually using a shoe shine stand.

    I mean it only takes a few seconds to do it yourself at home, seems like such an unneccessary service.


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    #19
    Snowie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭Snowie


    sam34 wrote: »
    well then you're very very wrong.

    i am not a snob, far from it, and i resent being called one.

    to me, kneeling in front of someone is submissive or subservient. it's what is done to some royalty and heads of church, as a means of showing subservience. it's used in some people's sexual practices as a submissive gesture.

    that's what i associate it with.

    and that's why i feel uncomfortable with the thought of expecting anyone to do it for me.

    *shrug* you dont have to agree with my opinion, its only a personal opinion, but please dont call me a snob , as it's untrue and unnecessary.


    Im not calling you a snob im saying that your opinion is snoby theres a big difference.

    id never kneel to royality or to some jeous creeper who beleaves in that mumbo jumbo... yes some men and women like the hole Submissive thing for sexy time or what ever the perameeters of what there up to ....
    but there is a massive difference between bowing for some royality line or a cardinal, or licking some chicks thigh high boots form heal to the top and

    fitting shoes.

    Genrally byeing shoes/sneakers is an enjoyable time where your thinking more about whats on your feet and how they look. I mean you dont get your shoes fitted turn to your best mate high five her and say submissive male in a female version quagmire allrighttttt or maybe you do but the point being.

    Its anything but, submissive granted while the person maybe on his or her knee's... to me there just on there knees, as i said ive spent some time on my knees fitting boots tbh I never once got that feeling that person felt any better then me, Im aware of people vibes and the only thing i notice guys felt a little uncomfrotable and women enjoyed because genrally because there being fussed over and for any woman that kinda thing drops there gaurd down completely.

    i dont think, its submissive from the the veiw of doing a job... if you cleen shoes for a living, and working honestly, It cant be well thast my view.

    Tho i will apolgise for calling you snoby, you can stand on my back and get of your horse now what that make it any better :) ?


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    #20
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    OldGoat wrote: »
    I can see your point of view but I just can't accept it. We differ in outlook on life I think.
    I see the Shines in the airport and think "Fair play to ya". I see them getting off their arses and doing something to constructive and positive in their lives. Give me a CV from someone who is working as a shoe polisher or someone who is just sitting at home collecting dole money and all else being balanced I'll employ the worker.
    I really don't see the humilation/submission thing at all.

    i never looked at it like that actually. good point, at least these lads are working and earning an honest wage.

    OldGoat wrote: »
    The closest similar job I can think of is that of a pedicurist, someone who works at your feet all be it in a more glamourous surroundings. Does that cause people the same feelings of unease?

    well, it would make me uncomfortable, hence i've never gotten a pedicure. in a shoe shop, i fit the shoes on myself etc

    but maybe its just me.
    feet freak me out a bit tbh, and i cant get past the subservience of kneeling at someoens feet.

    ah well, there'd be no need fo rboards.ie if we all agreed :)


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    #21
    shoeshinelady
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭shoeshinelady


    Hello all,
    I receive daily "google alerts" about anything online that contains the words shoe shine and I thus I was notified of your conversation regarding the shoe shine biz in Ireland and the shoe shine biz in general. My business partners and I own and operate six shoe shine stands in the USA (check us out www.ashineandco.com) and have a vast amount of experience with all of the old ideas, new ideas and ever changing ideas of the shoe shine service and of shoe shiners.

    Firstly, I am the shoe shine lady and it is not typical to find lady shoe shiner but at my company, they will be hard to miss as 50% of the workforce are women shiners. We have been in business for 14 years and have seen to it that all of the old ideas (for which no one is to blame for having) of the subserviant, uneducated, poor, underclass shoe shine boy get cast out with a new experience of the profession at our upscale, indoor shine shops. The men and women of the shine at my company are brilliant, educated, talented, funny, attractive and self-respecting. When our customers (made up of business men and women in the financial district of San Francisco, CA and at the JetBlue terminal in the airport at JFK in New York) come to us for the first time they often ask why we are shining shoes and not on stage somewhere or otherwise employed in presumably a more respectable profession and we tell them that we love what we do and we love working with each other. This reflects and our business is thriving, coast to coast.

    The tradition of having someone else shine your shoes is probably a decidedly American trend but I can tell you that my business partner, Kevin Tuohy, and I (both first generation Irish American) would love to bring the elevated shoe shine culture we have helped nuture back to the business districts of Ireland. I'm sure the folks there would catch on to the idea...it's a lovely experience and we are well-seasoned experts in the art of the shine.


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    #22
    minidazzler
    Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    I am quite enjoying the discussion here, just got back to it now! :)

    Personally, I don't see it as a sub-serviant thing, I have been shining my dad's shoes for a long time, albeit, never with them on his feet.

    I wouldn't actually kneel at their feet, I would have a small stool, my knee's couldn't take the kneeling TBH.

    Regarding the conversation....TBH, making conversation with business men isn't something that really intrigues me. I would have a few papers ready and waiting for the 5-10 minutes I am working on their shoes.

    I think I will definitely put some thought into this, there could be a bit of money in it if I worked the South Mall in Cork, or outside the Courthouse....


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    #23
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    minidazzler wrote: »
    Personally, I don't see it as a sub-serviant thing, I have been shining my dad's shoes for a long time, albeit, never with them on his feet.

    i hope i havent been misinterpreted here...

    i dont think shining shoes is subservient, i think kneeling at someone's feet to do it is


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    #24
    minidazzler
    Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    sam34 wrote: »
    i hope i havent been misinterpreted here...

    i dont think shining shoes is subservient, i think kneeling at someone's feet to do it is

    Ah, I understand now, I wouldn't necessarily agree, but I can see where you are coming from. I would be of the belief that it's only subservient if the kneeler feels it is, because if they consider this a good honest living, they will not feel subservient to anyone that they do service.

    I can see why some people would see the shoe shiner as subservient, and I could even envisage some people treating them badly because of their profession, but I am of the opinion it is really a honest service. :)

    I am not someone who ever has felt sub-servient, doubt doing this I would. :)


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    #25
    Monkeybonkers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭Monkeybonkers


    sam34 wrote: »
    i hope i havent been misinterpreted here...

    i dont think shining shoes is subservient, i think kneeling at someone's feet to do it is


    I don't think they kneel at peoples feet to do it. They have little stools that they sit on.

    edit: I'm just curious, do you still think it's subservient if they are sitting on a stool?


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    #26
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    sam34 wrote: »
    i hope i havent been misinterpreted here...

    i dont think shining shoes is subservient, i think kneeling at someone's feet to do it is

    I´m the same: had my first ever pedicure last year and felt like the scum of the Earth as it was being done but had no problems with the manicure. I think my psychology has a lot to do with being in South America and being offered shoe shines by poor street kids constantly(and I was wearing flip-flops)..I´d get the occasional quick shine out of sympathy for the kids. It was a moral dilemna I constantly had...give them the money and encourage begging or make them work for their money (and thus promoting child labour). Still not decided on that one. I felt incredibly uncomfortable when they crouched down to clean my flip-flops...I felt like the scum of the Earth actually and I guess that mentality has stuck.

    Interesting topic though.


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    #27
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    Monkeybonkers wrote: »
    I don't think they kneel at peoples feet to do it. They have little stools that they sit on.

    edit: I'm just curious, do you still think it's subservient if they are sitting on a stool?

    no, it's just the kneeling i find subservient.


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    #28
    nkay1985
    Registered Users Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    I have to say I've enjoyed this little discussion. I personally don't think it would really catch on in Ireland, mainly for the reasons Maguined was saying, about the Irish business world being quite casual in its dress. I think it's at the stage where most workplaces don't require full suit and tie unless you were going to be meeting vendors or whatever. Ties and jackets aren't the norm. With all this in mind, I think the times of shiny shoes being part of the uniform have come and gone. I'm sure if someone were to do it in the right location, they could make a few quid but I wouldn't see it being a real money-spinner. And I'd say those shoe-shine chairs would set you back a few bob too.


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    #29
    minidazzler
    Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    nkay1985 wrote: »
    I have to say I've enjoyed this little discussion. I personally don't think it would really catch on in Ireland, mainly for the reasons Maguined was saying, about the Irish business world being quite casual in its dress. I think it's at the stage where most workplaces don't require full suit and tie unless you were going to be meeting vendors or whatever. Ties and jackets aren't the norm. With all this in mind, I think the times of shiny shoes being part of the uniform have come and gone. I'm sure if someone were to do it in the right location, they could make a few quid but I wouldn't see it being a real money-spinner. And I'd say those shoe-shine chairs would set you back a few bob too.

    Nice post! :)

    I might get bored during the summer and build one though! :D And who knows...if I got the balls, may even set it up in the south mall! :D


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    #30
    Monkeybonkers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭Monkeybonkers


    minidazzler wrote: »
    Nice post! :)

    I might get bored during the summer and build one though! :D And who knows...if I got the balls, may even set it up in the south mall! :D


    Good luck if you do decide to do it.


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    #31
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    I don't get my shoes shined (although I definitely need to), so I can't speak to this particular dynamic personally. On the one hand, I can see where some of the discomfort comes from, especially since the image of the "shoe shine boy" in the US was historically quite racialized (not to mention how demeaning it is to call a grown man a boy). But on the other hand, I've never had any qualms about getting a pedicure - I see it as another beauty service like getting my hair cut or my eyebrows waxed. If they weren't sitting, then how would they do it? I actually feel worse for the hairdressers, as they generally stand up for 10-12 hours a day. And to bring it back to garment services, have you see the working conditions in a laundry? Industrial irons are no joke. Yet few people would have the same kid of qualms about getting their shirts pressed.

    I guess my take on this is at the end of the day, as long as you treat the person providing the service with respect (and tip them well if they did a good job!), then it's not that problematic in the greater scheme of things.


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