'Sharia police' patrol streets of German city

Skylinehead · 14-09-2014 10:23pm

DarkJager wrote: »

What scaremongering? Tell me one facet of Islam that is beneficial to any country? It is a religion of hatred and violence and has no place in a civilised country.

It's not as if Catholicism has been a bundle of joy for us either, would you like that outlawed too? Seeing as that has actually caused issues here, unlike Islam.

ireland.man · 14-09-2014 10:26pm

Wurzelbert wrote: »

yeah well…so what’s your take on all this?

Islam is less of a political threat to European powers than the IRA and other secular militant groups over the past five decades.

That Islam taking over Europe through its high birthrate has been proven to be a myth again and again.

That scare-mongering about Islam is an American import. It's based on fear politics and paranoia that is deeply embedded in American culture. British people adopted the ideas of those Americans who are considered tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists and marginal ultra-nationalists over there. This is most visible when you see Irish posters using terms like 'libtard' and 'liberals' when it's never been part of our political lexicon and is common on American forums. It's an affectation and hints that unoriginal ideas are being adopted wholesale.

DarkJager · 14-09-2014 10:28pm

Lilliana Orange Puffin wrote: »

You're not talking about Islam, you're talking about extremism.

I am talking about Islam specifically. Give me one facet of this religion that promotes a peaceful existence with other cultures. In fact, give me a single quote from the Koran that promotes that idea. There is none, because it is a dark age religion which does not belong in this century.

Wurzelbert · 14-09-2014 10:29pm

DarkJager wrote: »

What scaremongering? Tell me one facet of Islam that is beneficial to any country? It is a religion of hatred and violence and has no place in a civilised country.

that seems a tad over-simplistic, yet i too cannot see a single facet of islam that is truly beneficial to any (european) country…i am all for religious freedom and know a number of good and decent muslims yet i would absolutely not want to live in a state run under strict islamic law…

0byme75341jo28 · 14-09-2014 10:35pm

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

What scaremongering? Mad mullahs lobbing lads heads off in the name of Allah on Londons streets? Mass grooming gangs in the UK? The 751 no go muslim areas for emergency services in France? Muslim immigrants engaging in antisemitic abuse all over Europe and the Jewish community living in fear?

It's not scaremongering. Muslim immigration into Europe, by and large, has been an utter disaster. Time to stick a moratorium on any further immigration from Islamic countries.

Lads? It happened once, and the perpetrators were severely punished. Lunatics murder people for a multitude of reasons, Islam just happened to be their reason in this case.

Gangs be gangs, any proof that this "mass grooming" is going on?

After a quick google it would appear that these 751 "no go" zones are not in existence exclusively due to immigration of Muslims.

People get abused in all walks of life, yet again it's not a problem that's exclusive to Islam. See: Falls Road.

anncoates · 14-09-2014 10:36pm

Links234 wrote: »

I'd like to see both cop on to themselves, but that's just me.

Good luck with that

RobYourBuilder · 14-09-2014 10:37pm

Any proof mass grooming is going on? Do you live under a rock? Look up the Rotherham grooming fiasco there like a good man and stop talking utter crap.

Wurzelbert · 14-09-2014 10:39pm

ireland.man wrote: »

[...]
That Islam taking over Europe through its high birthrate has been proven to be a myth again and again[...]

has it now? how? you think they will all adapt, give up islam, start drinking beer and become average irish/german/french or whatever citizens when they grow up? really?

Paz-CCFC · 14-09-2014 10:39pm

Wurzelbert wrote: »

that seems a tad over-simplistic, yet i too cannot see a single facet of islam that is truly beneficial to any (european) country…i am all for religious freedom and know a number of good and decent muslims yet i would absolutely not want to live in a state run under strict islamic law…

As opposed to strict Catholic law? No sex outside marriage, no speaking out against the Church or be burnt as a heathen, no contraception, women must do as the men say, including submitting to sex, child outside marriage gets taken away. Sure, some of these were law not that long ago.

You'd have a bigger chance of these strict Catholic laws being (re)introduced in Ireland than strict Sharia law. In reality, neither will.

0byme75341jo28 · 14-09-2014 10:44pm

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Any proof mass grooming is going on? Do you live under a rock? Look up the Rotherham grooming fiasco there like a good man and stop talking utter crap.

Misunderstood your definition of grooming, sorry.

How does the fact that that happened have a direct link to Islam? Just because Muslims did it doesn't mean they did it because they're Muslim.

ireland.man · 14-09-2014 10:44pm

Wurzelbert wrote: »

has it now? how? you think they will all adapt, give up islam, start drinking beer and become average irish/german/french or whatever citizens when they grow up? really?

Two pages back I showed the contrary data in the Economist, the BBC, Newsweek and even the Pew stats site that the anti-Islam posters were using. Eurabia, cultures being swamped, Sharia Law, all fear mongering and silliness that people will forget about when the next scary group of people come along in a decade or two. Probably Belgians, they're a shady bunch and prone to aggression at weddings too.

Wurzelbert · 14-09-2014 10:47pm

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

As opposed to strict Catholic law? No sex outside marriage, no speaking out against the Church or be burnt as a heathen, no contraception, women must do as the men say, including submitting to sex, child outside marriage gets taken away. Sure, some of these were law not that long ago.

You'd have a bigger chance of these strict Catholic laws being (re)introduced in Ireland than strict Sharia law. In reality, neither will.

haven’t seen anyone executed in public in euope in a while…and even the catholic church isn’t known for having women stoned to death for adultery…but then i am seeing all this from a non-irish, more european perspective…though i understand many bad things happened under the catholic church over the centuries, not only in ireland, i’d still choose christianity over islam anytime…

Frank Lee Midere · 14-09-2014 10:50pm

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

As opposed to strict Catholic law? No sex outside marriage, no speaking out against the Church or be burnt as a heathen, no contraception, women must do as the men say, including submitting to sex, child outside marriage gets taken away. Sure, some of these were law not that long ago.

You'd have a bigger chance of these strict Catholic laws being (re)introduced in Ireland than strict Sharia law. In reality, neither will.

What about that whataboutary

Frank Lee Midere · 14-09-2014 10:52pm

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

And? Catholicism was brought to Germany by immigrants and is now the most popular religion there. In Ireland, it's the vast majority religion, taking over from previous Gaelic beliefs. Wouldn't Celtic paganism be a more indigenous religion? Did the evil Christians "outbreed" the native pagans?

To where would you deport Irish Muslims?

I am pretty sure Catholicism preceded Lutheranism in Germany.

Wurzelbert · 14-09-2014 10:54pm

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

I am pretty sure Catholicism preceded Lutheranism in Germany.

of course it did

Frank Lee Midere · 14-09-2014 10:55pm

Lilliana Orange Puffin wrote: »

Gangs be gangs, any proof that this "mass grooming" is going on?

Did you work for Rotherham county council.

It's utterly remarkable how that story was buried.

Manach · 14-09-2014 10:56pm

Laws change, usually driven by pressure groups. As is their right (the parties involved in this 'Sharia police') can change tactics and seek other ways to amend societal norms. Given the changes that have occurred in Europe over the past 50 years in regard social change, they'd have no more or less chance of being an effective lobbying group than other such elements.

Frank Lee Midere · 14-09-2014 11:04pm

Wurzelbert wrote: »

of course it did

Paz has a different history book. But then the grooming in Rotherham has also disappeared from history.

There could be a genuine debate here but it's all bad faith arguments, false dilemmas and whataboutary.

You would think liberals would be upset by no go areas, homophobia, mysogony, attacks on immodest dressers, calls for segregation etc but fashion dictates that "islamophobia" be a greater evil. For now.

In any case it's not a war I am interested in. As Muslim populations grows society will become more illiberal, society will in fact be less progressive. Unless Muslims totally change which hasn't happened in the UK.

However since liberals are not concerned and those of us who don't really care one way or the other about feminism or homophobia and all the other fashionable things to care about - I generally oppose immigration for economic reasons - we should let them fight their own battles.

ireland.man · 14-09-2014 11:06pm

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Paz has a different history book. But then the grooming in Rotherham has also disappeared from history.

There could be a genuine debate here but it's all bad faith arguments, false dilemmas and whataboutary.

You would think liberals would be upset by no go areas, homophobia, mysogony, attacks on immodest dressers, calls for segregation etc but fashion dictates that "islamophobia" be a greater evil. For now.

In any case it's not a war I am interested in. As Muslim populations grows society will become more illiberal, society will in fact be less progressive. Unless Muslims totally change which hasn't happened in the UK.

However since liberals are not concerned and those of us who don't really care one way or the other about feminism or homophobia and all the other fashionable things to care about - I generally oppose immigration for economic reasons - we should let them fight their own battles.

Out of interest, do you support things like gay marriage and complete equality in every way (no discrimination in securing teaching positions, etc) for transgender people?

Frank Lee Midere · 14-09-2014 11:07pm

Manach wrote: »

Laws change, usually driven by pressure groups. As is their right (the parties involved in this 'Sharia police') can change tactics and seek other ways to amend societal norms. Given the changes that have occurred in Europe over the past 50 years in regard social change, they'd have no more or less chance of being an effective lobbying group than other such elements.

Except a growing population. But you are right that they will move the compass on societal norms.

Wurzelbert · 14-09-2014 11:09pm

ireland.man wrote: »

Two pages back I showed the contrary data in the Economist, the BBC, Newsweek and even the Pew stats site that the anti-Islam posters were using. Eurabia, cultures being swamped, Sharia Law, all fear mongering and silliness that people will forget about when the next scary group of people come along in a decade or two. Probably Belgians, they're a shady bunch and prone to aggression at weddings too.

all those articles say is that it takes time, and that goes without saying anyway, and then they say western decadence will likely get the better of those muslims…one can only hope they are right on that one, though there is little proof…and if they are wrong, simple maths will be the undoing of europe as we know it...yet as i stated earlier, none of us would live to see that even if it ever happened…

Frank Lee Midere · 14-09-2014 11:12pm

ireland.man wrote: »

The stats are correct but the application is stupid.

I've bulked up and put on about two stone in the past two year. Therefore I'll be about 45 stone by the time the paper says Muslims will be the second biggest religion in the country so don't worry, I'll defend our way of life with my enormous strength then. That's how statistics work, right?

No. Some extrapolations are more valid than others. Unless Islamic birth rates trend towards European birth rates then Islam will continue growing. Now argue in favour of that convergance if you want but don't just think one false analogy of a bad extrapolation proves all extrapolations incorrect.

ireland.man · 14-09-2014 11:14pm

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

No. Some extrapolations are more valid than others. Unless Islamic birth rates trend towards European birth rates then Islam will continue growing. Now argue in favour of that convergance if you want but don't just think one false analogy of a bad extrapolation proves all extrapolations incorrect.

Fair enough but in terms of value systems, do you support things like gay marriage and complete equality in every way (no discrimination in securing teaching positions, etc) for transgender people? I asked this a few pages back so it probably got lost among other quickly posted comments.

ABC101 · 14-09-2014 11:59pm

In fairness to Islam... it is a successful religion, their numbers are growing.. due to them getting married young, having lots of children and the sons attempt to take the religion as seriously or even more seriously than their father.

Not true in every case... but in general that is the trend.

I remember in the early 1990's Ireland's Muslim population was only 4500 or so.. then by the end of the 90's it was up to 12,000, now 11 years in... it is up to high 40's... maybe the low 50's.

Probably by 2025, Muslim numbers will exceed the population of Cork City etc.

I don't have a issue with Islam itself. If other countries i.e. Iraq,, Syria etc etc wish to be Islamic then that is o.k. with me.

However I do look at Islam and ask myself is it compatible with Western Culture, for example..

1) Being able to take up to 4 wives.
2) Where sons inherit more than daughters or mothers.
3) Where adopted children can inherit nothing from their adopted Muslim family.
4) Where women must be veiled in public.
5) Where women must wear a burqua if they go out in public.
6) Where women cannot drive a car.
7) Where a woman must be accompanied by a male relative in public.
8) Where you can marry your cousin / relatives.
9) Strict separation of the sexes, i.e. female teachers for female pupils and male pupils must be thought by male teachers etc.
10) Where a girl can be married at 12 years,
11) If a unmarried girl of 18 years is seen holding hands with her boyfriend she can be stoned to death for adultery.
12) Once becoming a Muslim..you can never renounce your faith.

The list goes on and on and on.

I'm not saying... Islam is wrong..... it's just there is a little birdie in the back of my head telling me..... that the Western world with its liberal values.... is not compatible with Islamic culture.

Where there is incompatibility... there can be friction, social unrest, disorder.

I do get the impression however... that a number of posters don't actually care about the incompatibility of Western Culture to Islam.

Some posters just seem happy to verbally attack / draw comparisons with the Roman Catholic Church.

After all... they way Catholics treat their women must be far far worse.

Nodin · 15-09-2014 12:06am

ABC101 wrote: »

In fairness to Islam... it is a successful religion, their numbers are growing.. due to them getting married young, having lots of children and the sons attempt to take the religion as seriously or even more seriously than their father.

Not true in every case... but in general that is the trend.

I remember in the early 1990's Ireland's Muslim population was only 4500 or so.. then by the end of the 90's it was up to 12,000, now 11 years in... it is up to high 40's... maybe the low 50's.

Probably by 2025, Muslim numbers will exceed the population of Cork City etc.

I don't have a issue with Islam itself. If other countries i.e. Iraq,, Syria etc etc wish to be Islamic then that is o.k. with me.

However I do look at Islam and ask myself is it compatible with Western Culture, for example..

1) Being able to take up to 4 wives.
2) Where sons inherit more than daughters or mothers.
3) Where adopted children can inherit nothing from their adopted Muslim family.
4) Where women must be veiled in public.
5) Where women must wear a burqua if they go out in public.
6) Where women cannot drive a car.
7) Where a woman must be accompanied by a male relative in public.
8) Where you can marry your cousin / relatives.
9) Strict separation of the sexes, i.e. female teachers for female pupils and male pupils must be thought by male teachers etc.
10) Where a girl can be married at 12 years,
11) If a unmarried girl of 18 years is seen holding hands with her boyfriend she can be stoned to death for adultery.
12) Once becoming a Muslim..you can never renounce your faith.

(........................)

Thank you so much for breaking the terrible cycle of exaggeration and fear mongering which so plagues this subject.

FTA69 · 15-09-2014 12:27am

DarkJager wrote: »

What scaremongering? Tell me one facet of Islam that is beneficial to any country? It is a religion of hatred and violence and has no place in a civilised country.

One example would be Zakat, the Islamic pillar of charity which stipulates that Muslims donate a portion if their income to the poor. It's estimated that Islamic Zakat payments annually are 15 times the total of yearly humanitarian aid donations.

To be honest mate, I feel a bit sorry for you. I can't imagine what it's like to have such seething anger toward people you don't even know.

RobYourBuilder · 15-09-2014 12:57am

The zakat is pretty much like a primitive form of our western social welfare system. Non muslims don't get to avail of it, yet still have to pay the jizyah tax.

ABC101 · 15-09-2014 12:58am

Nodin wrote: »

Thank you so much for breaking the terrible cycle of exaggeration and fear mongering which so plagues this subject.[/QUOTE

Playing the person and not the ball again Nodin!!

policarp · 15-09-2014 1:09am

Chucken wrote: »

What country would that be?

Country & Eastern.Fiddle me Eye sort of country.

Snake Plisken · 15-09-2014 1:17am

I'd really like to know the background to the usual pro-islam supporters on boards.ie, I mean most of them hate the catholic church and don't like the jews/Israel, yet provide undying support for the Islamic faith? Some say they are atheist, but go on supporting what many consider to have the worse aspects of religion. So are you Muslim? Have you friends or family who are Muslims or married to Muslims?
Let us not forget a boards member threatened to sue the owners of boards.ie around 12-18 months ago because someone had posted a derogatory remark about the mighty Allah.
So if we have just come out of centuries of control by the church, why should we let a religion like Islam try to influence and change our way of life?

old_aussie · 15-09-2014 1:19am

Wont be long before this happens in Ireland and pubs in majority muslim areas are driven out.

Just like in Lakemba Australia

Nodin · 15-09-2014 1:27am

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

The zakat is pretty much like a primitive form of our western social welfare system. Non muslims don't get to avail of it, yet still have to pay the jizyah tax.

Really? What states impose this tax?

policarp · 15-09-2014 1:28am

The Jews and the Muslims are only doing now what the "Civilised World" were doing to them for centuries.
WW3 in the making.

Nodin · 15-09-2014 1:32am

Snake Plisken wrote: »

I'd really like to know the background to the usual pro-islam supporters on boards.ie, I mean most of them hate the catholic church and don't like the jews/Israel, yet provide undying support for the Islamic faith? Some say they are atheist, but go on supporting what many consider to have the worse aspects of religion. So are you Muslim? Have you friends or family who are Muslims or married to Muslims?
Let us not forget a boards member threatened to sue the owners of boards.ie around 12-18 months ago because someone had posted a derogatory remark about the mighty Allah.
So if we have just come out of centuries of control by the church, why should we let a religion like Islam try to influence and change our way of life?

You should ask them.

Who are these people who don't like Jews?

SeanW · 15-09-2014 1:34am

Nodin wrote: »

Thank you so much for breaking the terrible cycle of exaggeration and fear mongering which so plagues this subject.

Feel free to point out anything that was inaccurate ...

Snake Plisken · 15-09-2014 1:34am

Nodin wrote: »

You should ask them.

Who are these people who don't like Jews?

Ok let's start with you then?

Nodin · 15-09-2014 1:37am

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Ok let's start with you then?

Don't see why, as I don't fit the description. Where have I supported "the worse aspects of religion"?

Am I supposed to be one of "these people who don't like Jews"?

Nodin · 15-09-2014 1:39am

SeanW wrote: »

Feel free to point out anything that was inaccurate ...

5% or less of muslims take multiple wives, not all wear the burqa or believe its required, only a small number of places prevent women driving and the rest of it. Sweeping generalisations.

johnnyskeleton · 15-09-2014 1:49am

Candie wrote: »

and since the German police are on the case I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Said no human rights lawyer, ever!

Mark Tapley · 15-09-2014 1:51am

Snake Plisken wrote: »

I'd really like to know the background to the usual pro-islam supporters on boards.ie, I mean most of them hate the catholic church and don't like the jews/Israel, yet provide undying support for the Islamic faith? Some say they are atheist, but go on supporting what many consider to have the worse aspects of religion. So are you Muslim? Have you friends or family who are Muslims or married to Muslims?
Let us not forget a boards member threatened to sue the owners of boards.ie around 12-18 months ago because someone had posted a derogatory remark about the mighty Allah.
So if we have just come out of centuries of control by the church, why should we let a religion like Islam try to influence and change our way of life?

Some people don't think all Muslims are extremists. This of course means that they hate Jews and think sharia is the dogs bollócks.

johnnyskeleton · 15-09-2014 2:03am

DarkJager wrote: »

I am talking about Islam specifically. Give me one facet of this religion that promotes a peaceful existence with other cultures. In fact, give me a single quote from the Koran that promotes that idea. There is none, because it is a dark age religion which does not belong in this century.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Green/onbible.htm

Paz-CCFC · 15-09-2014 7:46am

Wurzelbert wrote: »

haven’t seen anyone executed in public in euope in a while…and even the catholic church isn’t known for having women stoned to death for adultery…but then i am seeing all this from a non-irish, more european perspective…

And there are 44 million Muslims in Europe. Haven't they started with the public executions yet? They'd want to get a hurry on, wouldn't they?

though i understand many bad things happened under the catholic church over the centuries, not only in ireland, i’d still choose christianity over islam anytime…

Thankfully we're getting rid of strict religious law in favour of secular legislation.

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

I am pretty sure Catholicism preceded Lutheranism in Germany.

I'm pretty sure that's irrelevant to the point that I made.

ABC101 wrote: »

However I do look at Islam and ask myself is it compatible with Western Culture, for example..

1) Being able to take up to 4 wives.
2) Where sons inherit more than daughters or mothers.
3) Where adopted children can inherit nothing from their adopted Muslim family.
4) Where women must be veiled in public.
5) Where women must wear a burqua if they go out in public.
6) Where women cannot drive a car.
7) Where a woman must be accompanied by a male relative in public.
8) Where you can marry your cousin / relatives.
9) Strict separation of the sexes, i.e. female teachers for female pupils and male pupils must be thought by male teachers etc.
10) Where a girl can be married at 12 years,
11) If a unmarried girl of 18 years is seen holding hands with her boyfriend she can be stoned to death for adultery.
12) Once becoming a Muslim..you can never renounce your faith.

In relation to Irish Muslims:

1) Under our marriage laws, I believe that this could not occur.

2) If an Irish Muslim were to unfairly leave his children short under his will, they can make a claim under s117 of the Succession Act 1965. His wife would be guaranteed a legal right share under s111 - at least a third if they have children, a half if they don't. She also has rights to the family home as per s56, inter alia. Under the rules of intestacy, the wife would have a right to two-thirds of the estate, whilst the children share equally the remaining third.

3) Adoptees are not quite treated as well as biological children under the Succession Act, but I believe that they too can make a s117 claim.

4) - 7) In Ireland, this could not be forced on a woman.

8) You can't marry your cousin, but very strangely, Irish law does not prohibit sexual relations. It's also not unlawful to have sex with your grandmother. Pretty weird.

9) This might be allowed in schools, as Ireland allows a religious school to discriminate so as to protect their ethos. Eg, Catholic schools might be allowed to dismiss someone for being gay or for falling getting pregnant outside of marriage. See, for example, Flynn v. Power.

10) Cannot happen under our law.

11) Also cannot happen, as it would violate numerous Constitutional and ECHR provisions.

12) Well, yeah, but it's the same with Catholicism. In reality, if an Irish Muslim wanted to stop practicing that belief, then they would be free to do so.

SpaceTime · 15-09-2014 8:32am

Quite simple really: religious rules and regulations in Irish law have no more legal force than the rules of a golf club.

You're statutory rights and obligations are completely unaffected, despite what any religious body may think.

Also I think if any European country knows the risks of unaccountable religious institutions usurping the state, it's Ireland.
We're still dealing with the legacy of church run social services and allowing religious bodies to interfere directly in social policy and turning a blind eye to what was going on in Mother and Baby Homes and Magdalene Laundries. Decades without access to contraception and divorce and we still have religiously inspired abortion legislation that is probably the most restrictive outside the Vatican City. What happened a few weeks ago is nothing short of internationally scandalous.

I really don't care what religion is behind it but we cannot let another generation of Irish people be put in those kinds of positions again by any religious bodies of any flavour.

Also with regard to charitable religious donations. They always come with strings attached and we live in an advanced, Western European social democracy with extensive social welfare safety nets and very high taxes because we socially pool % of our resources for the sake of social cohesion and ensuring that nobody should be left behind. Yeah, the system goes wrong now and then but it's very comprehensive - health, income, housing, retirement, access to education right up to university level is all pretty much covered.

We don't need religious tithes because we've moved on from the 1800s!

Also our welfare and social security system doesn't come with religious strings attached. It's universal.

There's a very strong concept of a "social contract" in countries like this and that's really what should be driving things not going off and forming sepetate little enclaves based on religious sectarianism.

Drakares · 15-09-2014 8:51am

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

The leader of this group is German. Muslim doesn't automatically mean immigrant.

His parents were probably not German. Or he was born to Turkish/German parents. There is a massive Turkish population living here.

conorhal · 15-09-2014 8:59am

Links234 wrote: »

Muslamistan, where all the muslims are from, no? :pac:

That joke was probably funny up until IS popped into existance, who's laughing now? Probably those in Londonistan, which london was often jokingly referred to as far back as the 80's for the number of 'governments in exile' from places like Iran, Syria and Iraq that operated from there.
Coming soon to you, the Islamic Republic of Birmingham.

conorhal · 15-09-2014 9:16am

Links234 wrote: »

It's fine if they themselves just want to abide by sharia customs, but what they were doing is highly illegal, vigilanteism, harassment, indimidation and attacking people, so if they do that again they'll face similar charges same as any repeat offender. What else would happen? What do you think would happen?

I think that's the case when they push into highly visible areas as they did in this case. What about the 80 Islamic courts operating in the UK imposing Sharia law in their own communities though? What you see on the street in Wuppertal is merely the visible expression of what is de facto within these communities, in the same way that when Dr. Selim spoke up a little too publically about the Irish education system failing muslims culture everybody was outraged, but strangely quiet about the fact that his 'suggestions' are exactly how islamic schools operate in this state. But sure as long as it's only happening in their own communities that's ok?

chatperche · 15-09-2014 9:18am

ireland.man wrote: »

Islam is less of a political threat to European powers than That Islam taking over Europe through its high birthrate has been proven to be a myth again and again.

.

How so? Where have you seen that?
Having grown up in the suburbs of Paris, I have seen entire suburbs becoming a no go area for any non-muslims. I have been taunted and initimidated for wearing a skirt while walking in broad day light and have seen more and more girls covering up out of fear.
I find people like yourself very naive! Wait and see what will happen in this country. A large part of the muslim community do not want to integrate and are only looking to impose their religion!

conorhal · 15-09-2014 9:36am

SpaceTime wrote: »

Quite simple really: religious rules and regulations in Irish law have no more legal force than the rules of a golf club.

You're statutory rights and obligations are completely unaffected, despite what any religious body may think.

Also I think if any European country knows the risks of unaccountable religious institutions usurping the state, it's Ireland.
We're still dealing with the legacy of church run social services and allowing religious bodies to interfere directly in social policy and turning a blind eye to what was going on in Mother and Baby Homes and Magdalene Laundries. Decades without access to contraception and divorce and we still have religiously inspired abortion legislation that is probably the most restrictive outside the Vatican City. What happened a few weeks ago is nothing short of internationally scandalous.

I really don't care what religion is behind it but we cannot let another generation of Irish people be put in those kinds of positions again by any religious bodies of any flavour.

Also with regard to charitable religious donations. They always come with strings attached and we live in an advanced, Western European social democracy with extensive social welfare safety nets and very high taxes because we socially pool % of our resources for the sake of social cohesion and ensuring that nobody should be left behind. Yeah, the system goes wrong now and then but it's very comprehensive - health, income, housing, retirement, access to education right up to university level is all pretty much covered.

We don't need religious tithes because we've moved on from the 1800s!

Also our welfare and social security system doesn't come with religious strings attached. It's universal.

There's a very strong concept of a "social contract" in countries like this and that's really what should be driving things not going off and forming sepetate little enclaves based on religious sectarianism.

For now. We have a dreadful habit of acceding to the demands of these kind of loopers though, as we do with slavishly copying the same mistake the UK does.
These eejits across the water have descided in their wisdom to give Sharia law legal status!
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/23/sharia-law-enshrined-in-uk-legal-system_n_5016396.html

Guidance on 'Sharia compliant wills' has been drawn up by The Law Society meaning high street solicitors can draft documents in line with religious principles, reports the Telegraph.
The wills will be able to deny an equal share of inheritances to women and non-Muslims and children born out of wedlock can be excluded completely.
Nicholas Fluck, president of The Law Society the measures would promote "good practice" but others have condemned the move as risking creating a parallel legal system for UK Muslims.

Wurzelbert · 15-09-2014 9:59am

conorhal wrote: »

For now. We have a dreadful habit of acceding to the demands of these kind of loopers though, as we do with slavishly copying the same mistake the UK does.
These eejits across the water have descided in their wisdom to give Sharia law legal status!
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/23/sharia-law-enshrined-in-uk-legal-system_n_5016396.html

Guidance on 'Sharia compliant wills' has been drawn up by The Law Society meaning high street solicitors can draft documents in line with religious principles, reports the Telegraph.
The wills will be able to deny an equal share of inheritances to women and non-Muslims and children born out of wedlock can be excluded completely.
Nicholas Fluck, president of The Law Society the measures would promote "good practice" but others have condemned the move as risking creating a parallel legal system for UK Muslims.

yep, that’s how it goes once a religious minority reaches a certain size...absolutely shocking and yet another small step towards eurabia, towards the abolition of europe as we know it...probably all part of the new world order somehow...

RobYourBuilder · 15-09-2014 10:01am

conorhal wrote: »

For now. We have a dreadful habit of acceding to the demands of these kind of loopers though, as we do with slavishly copying the same mistake the UK does.
These eejits across the water have descided in their wisdom to give Sharia law legal status!
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/23/sharia-law-enshrined-in-uk-legal-system_n_5016396.html

Guidance on 'Sharia compliant wills' has been drawn up by The Law Society meaning high street solicitors can draft documents in line with religious principles, reports the Telegraph.
The wills will be able to deny an equal share of inheritances to women and non-Muslims and children born out of wedlock can be excluded completely.
Nicholas Fluck, president of The Law Society the measures would promote "good practice" but others have condemned the move as risking creating a parallel legal system for UK Muslims.

When Muslims are a minority, they constantly scream about minority rights. When Muslims are a majority, there is no such thing as minority rights.

'Sharia police' patrol streets of German city

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