'Sharia police' patrol streets of German city

lightspeed · 14-09-2014 3:13pm #1

"A group of radical young Islamists has recently caused concern on the streets of a German city. The "Sharia police" have been observed trying to deter young Muslims from doing things like drinking or gambling".

http://www.dw.de/locals-concerned-as-sharia-police-patrol-streets-of-german-city/a-17904887

The images are quite alarming and this will only leading to one thing. More violence and islamaphobia.

Still Im sure there will no doubt be some thumping their chest demanding that freedom of speech must prevail for these people to promote their beliefs, regardless of the side effects.

SpaceTime · 14-09-2014 3:16pm

I'm pretty sure that's also highly illegal and possibly unconstitutional in Germany too.

It's basically vigilantism.

suicide_circus · 14-09-2014 3:16pm

Someone needs to fcuking hockey these lads out of it.

Links234 · 14-09-2014 3:20pm

These eejits have already been arrested: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article4200400.ece

http://www.thelocal.de/20140905/ruhr-police-throw-book-at-shariah-vigilantes

Charges of unlawful assembly and use of uniform in public were brought against 11 members of a group trying to enforce aspects of strict Islamic Sharia law in the North Rhine-Westphalia city, a spokeswoman for the Wuppertal police told The Local.

lightspeed · 14-09-2014 3:20pm

I would be quite opposed to the racist behaviour of the English Defence League but i would love to these Sharia police clash with EDL protesting.

AlanS181824 · 14-09-2014 3:22pm

I don't get this at all.

I mean I'm all for free speech and stuff but when they leave their country for another and then expect their own laws to be followed.

Makes no sense to me.

You wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia and expect them to put Christmas trees up would you?

So why do this?

Links234 · 14-09-2014 3:23pm

lightspeed wrote: »

I would be quite opposed to the racist behaviour of the English Defence League but i would love to these Sharia police clash with EDL protesting.

I'd like to see both cop on to themselves, but that's just me.

wazky · 14-09-2014 3:23pm

Isn't there a similar thing in London too?, why don't they live in a country that abides by Sharia law? If a westerner went to a country under Sharia law and went about their business as they would here then they would be locked up, at best.

Glock Lesnar · 14-09-2014 3:24pm

They might get away with it in Ireland but history has shown us that Germany isn't the place for an ethnic group to start throwing their weight around.

Links234 · 14-09-2014 3:25pm

wazky wrote: »

Isn't there a similar thing in London too?

Yes, and the same thing happened to them too: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/06/muslim-vigilantes-jailed-sharia-law-attacks-london

Three members of a self-styled "Muslim Patrol" vigilante group have been jailed for harassing, intimidating and assaulting people on the streets of east London while claiming they were enforcing sharia law.

14-09-2014 3:27pm

I was in London once, and an evangelical Christian had a mike set up with an amplifier and told everyone passing by that they were going to hell for their debauchery and paganism. Same thing, extremist big mouths will be extremist bigmouths, and since the German police are on the case I wouldn't worry too much about it.

lightspeed · 14-09-2014 3:29pm

Links234 wrote: »

These eejits have already been arrested: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article4200400.ece

http://www.thelocal.de/20140905/ruhr-police-throw-book-at-shariah-vigilantes

And then what happens is what is on my mind?

There are large numbers from all over Europe travelling to join ISIS. From what i heard on newstalk, they are estimated to have over 30,000 fighters and there numbers have been boosted in recent months from people being recruited from foreign lands.

These guys and the rest of Europeans who have joined or support ISIS are a major threat. What punishment will they receive? will they even face prison?

Then what happens when they out, they will just knock all the sharia law stuff on the head? I dont think so.

Britain still wont even revoke citizenship for British citizens who left to join ISIS.

suicide_circus · 14-09-2014 3:31pm

Candie wrote: »

I was in London once, and an evangelical Christian had a mike set up with an amplifier and told everyone passing by that they were going to hell for their debauchery and paganism. Same thing, extremist big mouths will be extremist bigmouths, and since the German police are on the case I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Nope, preaching is not the same as actually going around in a uniformed gang and directly targeting individuals for harassment.

Paz-CCFC · 14-09-2014 3:32pm

AlanS181824 wrote: »

I don't get this at all.

I mean I'm all for free speech and stuff but when they leave there country for another and then expect their own laws to be followed.

Makes no sense to me.

You wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia and expect them to put Christmas trees up would you?

So why do this?

The leader of this group is German. Muslim doesn't automatically mean immigrant.

Chucken · 14-09-2014 3:34pm

AlanS181824 wrote: »

I don't get this at all.

I mean I'm all for free speech and stuff but when they leave their country for another and then expect their own laws to be followed.

Makes no sense to me.

You wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia and expect them to put Christmas trees up would you?

So why do this?

What country would that be?

14-09-2014 3:34pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Nope, preaching is not the same as actually going around in a uniformed gang and directly targeting individuals for harassment.

The evangelist was trying to deter passers-by from the same stuff that the self-styled Sharia police are targeting.

The CC did it here, with priests censuring young people on the streets.

There's nothing new about any of this, it's just now against a backdrop of fear of radical Islam, imparting a new layer of suspicion and fear on the same old stuff.

AlanS181824 · 14-09-2014 3:35pm

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

The leader of this group is German. Muslim doesn't automatically mean immigrant.

Yeah that's true in this particular case alright.

Generalising wouldn't be right of me but a very similar thing happened in London with a pro Shari'a march.

Links234 · 14-09-2014 3:35pm

lightspeed wrote: »

Then what happens when they out, they will just knock all the sharia law stuff on the head? I dont think so.

It's fine if they themselves just want to abide by sharia customs, but what they were doing is highly illegal, vigilanteism, harassment, indimidation and attacking people, so if they do that again they'll face similar charges same as any repeat offender. What else would happen? What do you think would happen?

AlanS181824 · 14-09-2014 3:35pm

Chucken wrote: »

What country would that be?

In this particular case it's Germany.

suicide_circus · 14-09-2014 3:36pm

Candie wrote: »

The evangelist was trying to deter passers-by from the same stuff that the self-styled Sharia police are targeting.

The CC did it here, with priests censuring young people on the streets.

There's nothing new about any of this, it's just now against a backdrop of fear of radical Islam, imparting a new layer of suspicion and fear on the same old stuff.

Yes yes, any thread about muslims acting like arseholes must be tempered with an unrelated reference to how shiity the CC are. Boxed ticked.

Chucken · 14-09-2014 3:37pm

AlanS181824 wrote: »

In this particular case it's Germany.

You insinuated they had 'left their own country'

Links234 · 14-09-2014 3:38pm

Chucken wrote: »

You insinuated they had 'left their own country'

Muslamistan, where all the muslims are from, no? :pac:

Chucken · 14-09-2014 3:39pm

Links234 wrote: »

Muslamistan, where all the muslims are from, no? :pac:

Exactly

14-09-2014 3:42pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Yes yes, any thread about muslims acting like arseholes must be tempered with an unrelated reference to how shiity the CC are. Boxed ticked.

I never said anything about the CC being sh*tty, I just stated a fact. Do you dispute it for some reason?

Cool your jets there and save the indignation for something I actually said.

wazky · 14-09-2014 3:43pm

Links234 wrote: »

Muslamistan, where all the muslims are from, no? :pac:

Why don't they move to a country that abides by Sharia law though?

ABC101 · 14-09-2014 3:46pm

There are differences between what Western culture considers normal and Sharia Law.

Interesting link here about the Law Society in England and Wales who are trying to obtain more business by attempting to implement Sharia Wills.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2587215/Sharia-Law-enshrined-British-legal-lawyers-guidelines-drawing-documents-according-Islamic-rules.html

Basically, women will be denied a equal inheritance.
Adopted children will also lose out in the division of the estate.

On another point, trying to equate the Catholic Church with Islam is misinformed.

In the Catholic Church... if a person decides to become lapse... or stop believing that that is considered their own private personal decision. There are no consequences apart from your parents being a bit disappointed (perhaps).

On the other hand... once you become a Muslim... you can never leave the Islamic faith, for if you do you can be killed for it.

lightspeed · 14-09-2014 3:49pm

Candie wrote: »

I was in London once, and an evangelical Christian had a mike set up with an amplifier and told everyone passing by that they were going to hell for their debauchery and paganism. Same thing, extremist big mouths will be extremist bigmouths, and since the German police are on the case I wouldn't worry too much about it.

This ISIS crowd are not going to just go away like a dried up boyband. I was reading that Australia are sending 600 troops to help tackle ISIS. Other countries including even Poland are also agreeing to help provide airstrikes.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0914/643586-australia-iraq/

Germany has declined to provided airstrikes as has Britain. For Britain it seems to be political reasons. Although ironically, I would have thought Cameron would be beating his chest that the problem is now worse because parliament refused to back Cameron when he wanted to launch airstrikes on Syria a few months ago.

Perhaps, Germany is afraid of terrorist attacks if they joined in the fight against ISIS. Utterly pathetic if that is the case.

SpaceTime · 14-09-2014 3:51pm

You can relax a bit, in Ireland at least.

It's actually extremely unconstitutional and also absolutely illegal in Ireland. There's nothing remotely vague or fluffy about that aspect of law here.

You simply cannot setup a private police force, army or any kind of kangaroo court. We had a bit of a problem with this after the foundation of the state, so we've a lot of very clear legislation about it.

It's also covered by the Offences Against the State Act 1939.

6.—(1) Every person who usurps or unlawfully exercises any function of government, whether by setting up, maintaining, or taking part in any way in a body of persons purporting to be a government or a legislature but not authorised in that behalf by or under the Constitution, or by setting up, maintaining, or taking part in any way in a purported court or other tribunal not lawfully established, or by forming, maintaining, or being a member of an armed force or a purported police force not so authorised, or by any other action or conduct whatsoever, shall be guilty of felony and shall be liable on conviction thereof to suffer penal servitude for a term not exceeding ten years or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years.

(2) Every person who shall attempt to do any thing the doing of which is a felony under the foregoing sub-section of this section or who aids or abets or conspires with another person to do or attempt to do any such thing or advocates or encourages the doing of any such thing shall be guilty of a misdemeanour and shall be liable on conviction thereof to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years.

EXTREMELY clear.

Basically, if you did that in Ireland and were prosecuted you could be facing at least some time (potentially 2 years) behind bars.
The reference to 'penal servitude' is obsolete (but only since 1997!)

However, the court can opt to imprison someone for up to the length of the time of the original 'penal servitude' clause too. So, in theory you could go away for 10 years for doing that.
Section 11(1) of the Criminal Law Act, 1997

So, in general.. don't go trying to set up your own private police force or you could be spending a lot of time in jail and courts tend to take a very, very dim view of anyone trying to usurp their authority under the constitution.

I don't really care what they call themselves or who they are or why they're doing it. It's vigilantism and no different from some bunch of crackpots of any other political persuasion deciding to patrol the streets and calling themselves a police force. You simply cannot allow it as it undermines the rule of law, the constitution and democratic accountability.

Also, I'm fairly certain that a similar situation applies in Germany which would likely stem from a very serious concern about any kind of rise of the far right / neo nazism etc. They don't tend to mess around with any group attempting to behave like the thugs they had in the 1930s.

Hitchens · 14-09-2014 3:51pm

Candie wrote: »

I never said anything about the CC being sh*tty, I just stated a fact. Do you dispute it for some reason?

Cool your jets there and save the indignation for something I actually said.

stop diggin' love

AlanS181824 · 14-09-2014 3:53pm

Chucken wrote: »

You insinuated they had 'left their own country'

Definitely wasn't my intention though.

Chucken · 14-09-2014 3:53pm

wazky wrote: »

Why don't they move to a country that abides by Sharia law though?

Because they believe that Sharia law is the only law. They are spreading the word because they believe it.

wazky · 14-09-2014 3:56pm

Chucken wrote: »

Because they believe that Sharia law is the only law. They are spreading the word because they believe it.

So the whole world should conform to it because they believe it is right?, not only do they want to live under it but everyone else should too.

Can't see a flaw with that plan...

Chucken · 14-09-2014 3:57pm

AlanS181824 wrote: »

I mean I'm all for free speech and stuff but when they leave their country for another and then expect their own laws to be followed.

AlanS181824 wrote: »

Definitely wasn't my intention though.

Back peddling?

foggy_lad · 14-09-2014 3:58pm

Candie wrote: »

I was in London once, and an evangelical Christian had a mike set up with an amplifier and told everyone passing by that they were going to hell for their debauchery and paganism. Same thing, extremist big mouths will be extremist bigmouths, and since the German police are on the case I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Anyone can jump up on an auld soapbox and speak to the world as it passes them by, the difference here is these crackpots are physically stopping people and assaulting them.

endacl · 14-09-2014 3:59pm

Once the young Muslims being harassed by these muppets are responding to them with a firm 'fuch auf' things will probably be grand. Let them know that they're living in a modern democracy and not in Backwardsistan.

They always have the option to fuch auf back to live in Backwardsistan, if that's the way they want to live.

foggy_lad · 14-09-2014 3:59pm

Chucken wrote: »

Because they believe that Sharia law is the only law. They are spreading the word because they believe it.

Just like travellers believe that their laws are the only law.

AlanS181824 · 14-09-2014 4:00pm

Chucken wrote: »

Back peddling?

No clue what that means :pac:

Lenin Skynard · 14-09-2014 4:00pm

Just a publicity stunt and as evidenced by the existence of this thread, a successful publicity stunt.

endacl · 14-09-2014 4:01pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Just like travellers believe that their laws are the only law.

Jebus! That didn't take long!

foggy_lad · 14-09-2014 4:02pm

endacl wrote: »

Jebus! That didn't take long!

Just showing that this type of attitude is not unique to muslam/islamist groups.

SpaceTime · 14-09-2014 4:04pm

I think the only way you deal with something like that is to absolutely throw the book at them under whatever laws exist.

You can't have this kind of thing going on in a stable democracy.

Failure to throw the book at them gives them a notion they can go on doing that and also potentially causes a problem with a rise of ultra-right wing nutters on the other side of it too.

suicide_circus · 14-09-2014 4:08pm

Candie wrote: »

I never said anything about the CC being sh*tty, I just stated a fact. Do you dispute it for some reason?

Cool your jets there and save the indignation for something I actually said.

Thanks, I do love a good fact.

lightspeed · 14-09-2014 4:12pm

Links234 wrote: »

It's fine if they themselves just want to abide by sharia customs, but what they were doing is highly illegal, vigilanteism, harassment, indimidation and attacking people, so if they do that again they'll face similar charges same as any repeat offender. What else would happen? What do you think would happen?

ISIS is a terrorist organisation that we all know is responsible for evil acts of murder.

If these people support these so called muslim fighters, then they should be treated the same as enemy soldiers on the battlefield.

For the ones that joined ISIS, when or if they return from the front line to European countries that have took action against ISIS, will they just blend back into society and live happily ever after or will they retaliate, and blow up a train in pursuit of their JIHAD?

The problem is that some think that these people can be viewed as normal citizens who will be bound by the laws in place.

But clearly they are not. They view the west as a battlefield.

If they want to be Muslim fighters then we should recognise them as such and execute them. If they are soldiers in a war, how could their execution be murder? it would be an act of war against an enemy combatant on the battlefield.

How should Britain have dealt with people publicly and actively supporting the Nazi party during war time Britain in world war 2?

P_1 · 14-09-2014 4:15pm

I'd love to see them try that on in Temple Bar...

SpaceTime · 14-09-2014 4:22pm

P_1 wrote: »

I'd love to see them try that on in Temple Bar...

There was a US preacher last year, real fire and brimstone type, standing on Patrick's Street in Cork on a soap box telling people they'd go to hell and all the usual stuff.

He lasted about 2 Saturday nights. No idea what happened to him. Last I saw him he was telling a lady with spectacularly huge hoop earrings and a lot of spray tan that she was 'a sinner' (and actually going quite far with stuff that was bordering on insulting and abusive) and she was telling him that she was going to rearrange his face if he said that again.

He was quickly surrounded by a group of similar looking Cork ladies telling him where to go!

Help!!!! · 14-09-2014 4:25pm

Candie wrote: »

I was in London once, and an evangelical Christian had a mike set up with an amplifier and told everyone passing by that they were going to hell for their debauchery and paganism. Same thing, extremist big mouths will be extremist bigmouths, and since the German police are on the case I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Yes but the difference is the extremist bigmouths are known to not only be violent against other Muslims but other cultures also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcsG-u2GtZE

Hitchens · 14-09-2014 4:27pm

let's see them try this in the US or Russia

Links234 · 14-09-2014 4:30pm

lightspeed wrote: »

ISIS is a terrorist organisation..

And a completely different issue to some muppets playing militia, who quite rightly got arrested for what they did.

lightspeed wrote: »

If these people support these so called muslim fighters, then they should be treated the same as enemy soldiers on the battlefield.

They view the west as a battlefield.

If they want to be Muslim fighters then we should recognise them as such and execute them.

Wow. Just... wow. This is incredible, I'd like to bold certain parts for emphasis, but I can't.

So you think the UK should start executing their own citizens? I don't know what else to say apart from I sincerely hope you're joking.

Nodin · 14-09-2014 4:32pm

Hitchens wrote: »

let's see them try this in the US or Russia

What would happen in the US?

suicide_circus · 14-09-2014 4:39pm

Nodin wrote: »

What would happen in the US?

I think he's implying that they would never consider trying it there

ireland.man · 14-09-2014 4:42pm

Has AH always been like a liveleak comment thread filled with far-right and racist comments? Killing muslims, drowning them, constant threads every day about Sharia, immigrants, asylum seekers, ISIS, muslims in Ireland, etc etc. Even Americanisms like 'libtard' and 'liberals' to mean progressives or centrists are becoming the norm.

I've met plenty of Irish people who were racist, sadly, but this anti-Islam thing, and using American political slang is so strange and new to me.

'Sharia police' patrol streets of German city

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