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Solar power has won the argument?

  • 01-11-2014 1:20pm
    #1
    Highways
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34 ✭


    Saw this article reprinted in a trade mag and thought it worth sharing. No agenda on my part, no skin the game as they say;

    Telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/10755598/Global-solar-dominance-in-sight-as-science-trumps-fossil-fuels.html


Comments

  • #2
    quentingargan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭quentingargan


    This one in Bloomberg as well.

    But there is another thread here about the problems in Ireland with not being able to put this onto the grid. Also a piece on this subject in the Sunday Times today.

    Sadly, in Ireland, the Government doesn't seem to get it. Where renewable energy is concerned, we are a one-trick pony reliant entirely on wind. This is a pity because solar complements wind very well - you usually more solar when there is less wind, and solar also produces during the daytime when consumption is higher.

    Electric Ireland has just stopped its system whereby householders could export their surplus microgeneration energy to the grid for 9c per KwHr. That's nearly the same price paid for power from gas or wind. Now there is no feed in tariff.

    Attitudes here need to change if we are going to be part of the solar revolution...


  • #3
    greasepalm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    quite right so many things are changing with solar power from heating water to heating houses in winter,producing power also,maybe houses of the future will have panel roofs ,remove panel fit custom fit solar panel,heat pumps and water recycling getting into more now .
    government would probably tax you from exporting their surplus micro generation energy back into the grid.:D


  • #4
    kupus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭kupus


    THis is a bit OT, but when I was doing some looking about for something or other, I saw that the chinese companies that make solar panels had made too much and they just stored and stockpiled them. (afair the chinese companies have a monoply on building them due to having most of the materials of a solar panel) Germany and other countries had just stopped with the grants available and the chinese were pi55ed. And some kind of behind the scenes solar war broke out. with the cost of solar panels dropping like lead.
    Does that ring a bell in anybodies head?


  • #5
    quentingargan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭quentingargan


    kupus wrote: »
    THis is a bit OT, but when I was doing some looking about for something or other, I saw that the chinese companies that make solar panels had made too much and they just stored and stockpiled them. (afair the chinese companies have a monoply on building them due to having most of the materials of a solar panel) Germany and other countries had just stopped with the grants available and the chinese were pi55ed. And some kind of behind the scenes solar war broke out. with the cost of solar panels dropping like lead.
    Does that ring a bell in anybodies head?
    The Chinese don't have a monopoly on the supply of silicone - it is made from sand. One of the beauties of this technology is that most of its component ingredients are widely available.

    Another version of the above story is that German manufacturers had difficulty competing with China. There was also a surplus of supply and the prices fell to below cost. The EU banned below-cost selling by China, and has now set a minimum import price which is reviewed every three months. The MIP is above the price at which Chinese companies can actually afford to sell, so that has caused a slight increase in the price of panels.

    At present the MIP is 52.04c/watt. Most large Chinese manufacturers could profitably sell for less than this, so it is somewhat anti-competitive EU practice. But after all, it was subsidies in Germany and elsewhere that built the market, so I guess I can't blame them.

    I've had Chinese companies offer to sell me panels for 52c over the table with a refund backhander into another bank account. But these are companies whose products I wouldn't touch with a barge pole. The better manufacturers are playing by the rules.


  • #6
    greasepalm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    omg chinese are good at selling clones,but long life is not.


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  • #7
    quentingargan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭quentingargan


    greasepalm wrote: »
    omg chinese are good at selling clones,but long life is not.

    The laptop I am typing this on is Chinese (rebranded as Japanese),as is my phone. Both excellent bits of kit.

    The four largest solar PV manufacturers listed on Bloomberg's list of Tier 1 panels are Chinese. This Tier 1 classification is a measure of bankability - i.e. the belief that the panels can be funded by the banks in the knowledge that they will last the 25 year lifespan of a typical project.


  • #8
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    quentingargan wrote: »
    The laptop I am typing this on is Chinese (rebranded as Japanese),as is my phone. Both excellent bits of kit.

    The four largest solar PV manufacturers listed on Bloomberg's list of Tier 1 panels are Chinese. This Tier 1 classification is a measure of bankability - i.e. the belief that the panels can be funded by the banks in the knowledge that they will last the 25 year lifespan of a typical project.

    the panels will still work after 25 years, not as well as they worked on day one but they will work

    as the price of PV keeps falling and the price of electricity keeps rising it won't be long before we reach a cross over point


  • #9
    freddyuk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    Basic Keynesian economics - demand and supply - it it's in demand the supply will reduce and the price will go up. You may want to wait for that point? Or invest now for the future.;)


  • #10
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    quentingargan wrote: »

    Electric Ireland has just stopped its system whereby householders could export their surplus microgeneration energy to the grid for 9c per KwHr. That's nearly the same price paid for power from gas or wind. Now there is no feed in tariff.

    Attitudes here need to change if we are going to be part of the solar revolution...

    Same just happened here in NZ, putting a large dent in my plans.

    Did the energy regulator just go along with it, were there any justifiable reasons behind it?


  • #11
    quentingargan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭quentingargan


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    Did the energy regulator just go along with it, were there any justifiable reasons behind it?

    The regulator wasn't involved in the original scheme. It was Electric Ireland (semi-state) which had voluntarily offered a scheme. Other private suppliers had not done so.

    I think the regulator now needs to get involved... but the Government has yet to express any interest in encouraging microgeneration, and that has been missing.


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  • #12
    envaction
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 ✭envaction


    greasepalm wrote: »
    quite right so many things are changing with solar power from heating water to heating houses in winter,producing power also,maybe houses of the future will have panel roofs ,remove panel fit custom fit solar panel,heat pumps and water recycling getting into more now .
    government would probably tax you from exporting their surplus micro generation energy back into the grid.:D

    That is true. I do think that it would be good if more and more houses had solar panels on the house. I would love to get them here at my apartment, but I don't think that they will ever do that, but it's nice to be able to wish!


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