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Cecelia Ahern - hack, PS, I hate you, you suck

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    #32
    Eoin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,238 CMod ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    Dades wrote: »
    There's a difference between having an opinion and launching a spittle-flecked one-man campaign to discredit an author.

    Fair enough. I'm by no means a snob, especially as my reading is rarely particularly intellectual - but slagging off chick lit for not being highbrow does seem a bit silly.
    Dades wrote: »
    Besides, anyone can write. It's free - you don't need money, equipment or a degree in engineering. So in that way people are in a real position to lift the literary standard if they fit.

    IMO, even writing a crap book is an achievement.

    It's not a cost thing for me. I just wouldn't be able to write a book; I don't have the talent.

    But I enjoy reading, and if I come across a popular book that I think is terribly written (e.g. anything from Dan Browne), I will still say so.


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    #33
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    994 wrote: »
    Typically Irish response. All criticism, no matter the reasons, is begrudgery. The Ahern I've read rarely gets beyond Junior Cery. level.

    The OP is being a total begruger TBH. You can be critical but the OP seems to take the book far to seriously and seems to hate Cecelia Ahern for no real reason. The book and her subsequent books have all been critically trashed.

    Dan Brown is another hack, but I don't hate him.

    Example of critism for her TV show "Samatha Who?"

    From Variety
    raises existential questions of whether Sam can redeem herself, but a more immediate concern will be staving off cancellation, since by the end of the second episode the thought of memory erasure doesn’t sound bad.


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    #34
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #35
    jobucks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 801 ✭✭✭jobucks


    Alicesilver wrote: »
    I'm so sick and tired of people praising the rubbish Cecelia supposedly writes (lets face, there is no proof she writes any of those books, her name alone would sell the dribble, plus how many writers with excellent material cant even get a publisher to look at it?) Compare her college articles (you can find then on the net) with the writing style in her 'novels'. Not the same style, smacks of ghost writing. And if she has supposedly improved in the mean time, there would at least be a glimmer of talent in those snippets. Nada folks. It is substandard trash. I'm sure there is a certain demograph or those who have graduated from Read It Yourself series that her books may appeal to. Lets face it, she was spawned by one of greatest liars this country has ever seen, a man who ran the country into the ground and has the neck and gall to pen his own memoirs in a lucrative publishing deal. Looks like the Ahern's have neck for anything. The standard of literature has taken a huge nose dive. Even Amanda Brunker is published . . . what next, Paris Hilton gets a Nobel Prize for physics for her work in One Night In Paris? As for Cecelia being involved in the Samantha Who TV series, what was her contribution? 'lets do a show about a girl with blonde hair'?

    As an avid reader, and I mean avid. I don't mind admitting that I find Cecilia Aherns books quite refreshing. I'll read anything from Pulitzer prize winners, bookers shortlisted, Historical, Biographical, and anything else that takes my fancy at the time. The reason for this being, depending on my mood the type of book I read changes, I like the odd bit of "chick-lit" and if I had to pick the best out of them then I would probably put Cecilia Ahern at the top of the list... it does exactly what it says on the tin... for fans of that genre you can't get much better. Its escapism and its great for holiday reading or a Sunday afternoon when its lashing outside and your p*ssed off with life for one reason or another. It doesn't claim to be a prize winning read, but what it does claim it delivers, and I for one applaud her. Cut her some slack I say:p


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    #36
    Thomas_S_Hunterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    Her books aren't intended to be of academic value or even remotely intellectual. They are a consumer product. I think she should be viewed more as an entrepreneur than as a literary figure.
    CDfm wrote:
    I agree with everything except the roll eyes

    English as taught in Irish schools is top heavy in literature and as a book at least PS I love you has a structure and is written in a direct and readable and accessable style.

    So while Shakespeare has its place - it is given an importance in English literature almost to the exclusion of everything else.

    It is fine if it is to your taste or as a period piece- but otherwise -ugh.
    Can you honestly say you would rather your children were forced to read mind-numbing drivel?

    Regardless, the classroom is a place of academic learning and as such airport chick-lit has no place there.


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    #37
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    I haven't read the book but I hear it is filled with spelling errors.


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    #38
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    I think you kinda missed the point. Of course not everyone can write well, but anyone can physically type, write, or narrate a book. Therefore there are no barriers to those who complain about the lack of literary quality from reacting in the most effective manner.


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    #39
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #40
    Thomas_S_Hunterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    There's always the vanity press if you just have to be heard.


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    #41
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Sean_K wrote: »

    Can you honestly say you would rather your children were forced to read mind-numbing drivel?

    Regardless, the classroom is a place of academic learning and as such airport chick-lit has no place there.

    I can appreciate Shakespeare and have read it but I dont have to like it. I have also read Joyce, Beckett and other giants of literature.

    My present favourite is Andy McNab but 20 years ago Camus and Brecht were more my style.

    I can say Im not a chicklit fan but she rates higher than the Bronte Sisters IMO.

    As an Irish actor I rate Pat Shortt higher then Michael McLiammoir and more accessable. Fr Ted as greater TV then Waiting for Godot. Marilyn Monroe outrates Siobhain McKenna and Tom and Jerry the whole of Orson Wells output Citizen Kane included.

    The thing about literature is taste and you either like it or you dont. In Ireland adult literacy is just 75%.So I would split up English from english lit and have them taught by seperate teachers in the schools -even treat them as different subjects.

    In Irish schools we teach our kids a hatred of Shakespeare that stays with them for life. I learned a love of Canterbury Tales from a New Vic Production and still love Chaucer. Take the literary snob out of any of us and we still want to be entertained.


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    #42
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #43
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    CDfm wrote: »
    As an Irish actor I rate Pat Shortt higher then Michael McLiammoir and more accessable. Fr Ted as greater TV then Waiting for Godot. Marilyn Monroe outrates Siobhain McKenna and Tom and Jerry the whole of Orson Wells output Citizen Kane included.

    Sorry while I like Pat Shortt, Fr. Ted and Tom and Jerry. You cann't compare them to the magic the magic that is Citizen Kane. I will be elitist on somethings and this is it.

    But yes Marilyn Monroe over Siobhain McKenna anyday :)


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    #44
    994
    Closed Accounts Posts: 911 ✭✭✭994


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    I meant the sort of essay a JC student would submit.


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    #45
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Alicesilver wrote: »
    Lets face it, she was spawned by one of greatest liars this country has ever seen, a man who ran the country into the ground and has the neck and gall to pen his own memoirs in a lucrative publishing deal.
    You could be talking about CJ haughey except he as far as I'm aware , never wrote his ( final) memoris .


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    #46
    Dr Bolouswki
    Registered Users Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭Dr Bolouswki


    CDfm wrote: »
    I can appreciate Shakespeare and have read it but I dont have to like it. I have also read Joyce, Beckett and other giants of literature.

    My present favourite is Andy McNab but 20 years ago Camus and Brecht were more my style.

    I can say Im not a chicklit fan but she rates higher than the Bronte Sisters IMO.

    The thing about literature is taste and you either like it or you dont. .

    Critical analysis of literature is not about taste - it's about aesthetics. Just becasue you like the taste of sh1t doesn't mean it's not sh1t - it just means you like the taste of sh1t. I think the OP's bitter point, is that PS I love you is garbage, which I wouldn't dissagree with - Ive no problem with people liking it for what it is or considering it the best of the chic-lit genre, or indeed not liking some of the established giants of literature (each to his own) but claiming it is better than the bronte sisters just because you happen to eat your own feaces is a really laughable argument.


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    #47
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    994 wrote: »
    I meant the sort of essay a JC student would submit.

    Romeo and Juliet is an EMO play:mad:


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    #48
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    CDfm wrote: »
    Romeo and Juliet is an EMO play:mad:

    It's a ****ing soap opera :mad: and an American one :eek:

    Last week on Romeo and Juliet
    Priest sends monk out to find Romeo, monk ends up being quarantined!
    :D

    Sorry OTT


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    #49
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Dr Bolouswki wrote: »
    Critical analysis of literature is not about taste - it's about aesthetics. Just becasue you like the taste of sh1t doesn't mean it's not sh1t - it just means you like the taste of sh1t. I think the OP's bitter point, is that PS I love you is garbage, which I wouldn't dissagree with - Ive no problem with people liking it for what it is or considering it the best of the chic-lit genre, or indeed not liking some of the established giants of literature (each to his own) but claiming it is better than the bronte sisters just because you happen to eat your own feaces is a really laughable argument.

    I think you miss my point. Aesthetics is also about taste or preference not just technique.

    When I say I dont like Shakespeare or Joyce or the Brontes or Charles Dickens - what I am saying is that while I can appreciate their writings I find them boring. Im not a fan.

    Donegalfella loves his literature and give him his books and a mountainy view and his gf and he is happy.

    Critical analysis as taught in schools is about recognising a technique which is used in a piece a literature to convey a feeling or an emotion as part of its aesthetics.

    A Shakespeare play or an Alice Cooper concert -Vincent Furnier wins out everytime -its the aesthetics aint it:)


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    #50
    Karlusss
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Karlusss


    While I think you're both working off pretty basic assumptions as regards what critical analysis is...

    Are you seriously suggesting that Cecilia Ahern's body of work is better than that of the Bronte sisters, which has endured and continued to be read and thought even though the direct context is long gone because of its skill and its universal appeal?

    The thing about chick lit is, it's chick lit. It's like murder-mysteries or horror books, it's generic, it does what's expected of it and it doesn't overly challenge, as a whole. Is that why you prefer it to Shakespeare, Beckett, Joyce and Bronte? Because it doesn't challenge the way you think, or challenge you to think?


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    #51
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    Alicesilver wrote: »
    Compare her college articles (you can find then on the net) with the writing style in her 'novels'. Not the same style, smacks of ghost writing.
    Nope. The real tragedy is that she wrote it all by herself.

    Her real genius lay in her contracting one the top literary agents in the country to deal with prospective publishers on her behalf. Budding fiction writers take note!


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    #52
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    DublinWriter wrote: »
    Nope. The real tragedy is that she wrote it all by herself.

    Its not a tragedy -nobody dies.


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    #53
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Karlusss wrote: »
    While I think you're both working off pretty basic assumptions as regards what critical analysis is...

    Are you seriously suggesting that Cecilia Ahern's body of work is better than that of the Bronte sisters, which has endured and continued to be read and thought even though the direct context is long gone because of its skill and its universal appeal?

    The thing about chick lit is, it's chick lit. It's like murder-mysteries or horror books, it's generic, it does what's expected of it and it doesn't overly challenge, as a whole. Is that why you prefer it to Shakespeare, Beckett, Joyce and Bronte? Because it doesn't challenge the way you think, or challenge you to think?

    I can appreciate Cecilia Aherns writting for what it is.

    I disagree with your universal appeal bit. Critical and educational appeal I would concede. Shakespeare is known because he is taught in schools and is probably the only writer of his era and genre people know.

    Beckett I concede is more exciting then Ibsen but I dont like either. Joyce well is fine if you like that kind of stuff.

    But the Bronte sisters are maudlin,morose sentimental ,depressing drivel -they are to the teaching of English in schools what Peig Sayers was to Irish.

    My criticism is on two points. Our teaching of English in schools is very narrow and safe. Orwells Animal Farm works because it entertains and challenges. I would rate it above Dickens.

    In schools- the teaching of English is top heavy in literature. I would say it takes a lot more skill to write in a tabloid style to get a point accross in descending order of importance for editing then is popularily believed.

    I suspect that to unlearn the writting skills learned in school and adapting the chicklit style that she did took a lot of work. No one is out criticising Maeve Binchy.

    I am not saying it will endure as literature but it is readable.


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    #54
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    CDfm wrote: »
    My criticism is on two points. Our teaching of English in schools is very narrow and safe. Orwells Animal Farm works because it entertains and challenges. I would rate it above Dickens.

    In schools- the teaching of English is top heavy in literature. I would say it takes a lot more skill to write in a tabloid style to get a point accross in descending order of importance for editing then is popularily believed.

    You are condtradicting yourself since Orwells Animal Farm is studied in Irish Schools while I don't think any of Dickens novels are study, at least I don't remember any teachers mentioning him for study.

    I have to disagree with a tabloid style of writting verus a more serious tone. But both are study at Junior Cert level (and since I left school possibly Leaving Cert). I think that the Sunday Indo is very tabloid and highly scarcastic but that isn't to suggest that the writters aren't talented, however a tabloid report of a murder tends to be bias and coservative and leading, unlike a broadsheet which tries to report the news in a serious manor.

    Also studying literature often leads to a dislike of literature at a young age, perhaps it should be read rather then studied. I know that I found most of the work that we did a leaving cert more engaging as long as I wasn't over analysising the work for an essay at the end of 2 years.


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    #55
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Elmo wrote: »
    You are condtradicting yourself since Orwells Animal Farm is studied in Irish Schools while I don't think any of Dickens novels are study, at least I don't remember any teachers mentioning him for study.

    I have to disagree with a tabloid style of writting verus a more serious tone. But both are study at Junior Cert level (and since I left school possibly Leaving Cert). I think that the Sunday Indo is very tabloid and highly scarcastic but that isn't to suggest that the writters aren't talented, however a tabloid report of a murder tends to be bias and coservative and leading, unlike a broadsheet which tries to report the news in a serious manor.

    Also studying literature often leads to a dislike of literature at a young age, perhaps it should be read rather then studied.

    I wasnt aware Animal Farm was being studied- my error.

    But I agree on the Indo and get the Sunday Times and News of the World myself (for the sports coverage dont ya know)

    Excellent observation that studying literature leads to a dislike of literature at a young age. I wish Id said that.

    Just like the study or Irish leads to a dislike of Irish.

    I would put PS I love you on the English Course if it encouraged reading. Andy McNab too - I find that his descriptive narratives of gunfire and explosions capture the transcience of mans existence in a way Cecilia Ahern doesnt.


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    #56
    Eoin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,238 CMod ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    There's a thread on what you had to read in school somewhere in this forum. There are some good books mentioned that are well written, but accessible to kids as well. Lord of the Flies is one of them for me.


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    #57
    Mr. Frost
    Closed Accounts Posts: 726 ✭✭✭Mr. Frost


    Spot the failed/failing writer. :D


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    #58
    juicyjellybabe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭juicyjellybabe


    I started 'P.S. I Love you' a few months ago and couldn't finish it, it was so bad. The premise and story idea is original and interesting but I found it very badly written. The partwhere the main character pretends to be a princess to get entry into a nightclub was cheesy, unbelievable, idiotic and nonsensical. It resembled a junior cert level short story.


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    #59
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    juicyjellybabe wrote: »
    I started 'P.S. I Love you' a few months ago and couldn't finish it, it was so bad. The premise and story idea is original and interesting but I found it very badly written. The partwhere the main character pretends to be a princess to get entry into a nightclub was cheesy, unbelievable, idiotic and nonsensical. It resembled a junior cert level short story.

    In fact the storyline is not that original but the book is not plagurised. I heard an American author on Newstalk 106 who had written a book with a similar plot and which was published before Aherns book and she didnt speak at all negatively of it. PS I love you was also the title of an early Beatles song.


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    #60
    RonMexico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭RonMexico


    It is what it is. Take it or leave it.


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    #61
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    juicyjellybabe wrote: »
    I started 'P.S. I Love you' a few months ago and couldn't finish it

    Slow readers often find it easier to put there fingers under the words and read it outloud. Many who tackle Joyce do it like that too.:D:D:D:D

    PS Im not joking on the Joyce technique


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